BlueXImpulse
Banned
Victory laps for one win?
Hitman 3 PC Analysis : PS5/Series X Comparisons
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silent head
Member
Bulletbrain
Member
It's not. Supersampling option in game usually allows increasing rendering resolution at fixed steps. At 1080p, the in-game supersampling setting at 2.00 renders the game at 4k. The 2.00 donates the multiplier applied at both horizontal and vertical axis (1920x2=3840). Obviously, the in game option does not allow you to decrease the rendering resolution, so he selected game resolution of 3840x2160 and applied a custom supersampling setting of 83.33% which yields...1800p.
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Mister Wolf
Member
Ok I see. The 83.33% is just specific to this games multiplier and not like other engines internal resolution scalers that use incremental percentages of the the games set resolution.
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M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
If I remember it was Digital Foundry and also
VFXVeteran
which...wasn't really pretty.Also Valhalla prefers AMD card heavily.
Bulletbrain
Member
Yes, exactly. The way the game denotes the supersampling level is different to some other games. But in any case Alex's methodology is correct.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Completely wrong, as that's the lower bounds for like seconds, 95% of the time the games you mentioned are running at higher resolutions. Also Dirt 5 now has all the settings restored on 120hz and a higher framerate by up to 30fps on Series X
Valhalla drops down to low fifties with tearing on PS5, doesn't happen on Series X
Hitman 3 does drop frames on PS5 on the Miami level, they just showed you that on this very videoeven at 1800p.
So again when you have a PS5 game with a CONSTANT 44% resolution advantage and higher settings than Series X get back to me, I'll wait.
Lower bound / constant: That's because AC used a dynamic resolution scaler which Hitman devs do not have. It's quite logical and something that shouldn't even have to be explained.
Considering the high-frame rates on PS5 even in stressed areas, it is easy to see that a dynamic res scaler would make the end-result the same as Xbox Series X (which can also benefit from DRS in scenarios where it drops frames)
Riky
Dirt 5: False. Dirt 5 still uses lower settings on XSX. And none of the problems were fixed in the 60 FPS mode. You can check NXGamer's video for more details.
Valhalla: Series X doesn't drop frames because it lowers to the resolution to 1080p, while PS5 maintains 1440p. How is it ANY different than Hitman 3? Only the roles are reversed here for consoles.
Riky
$MSFT
Lower bound / constant: That's because AC used a dynamic resolution scaler which Hitman devs do not have. It's quite logical and something that shouldn't even have to be explained.
Considering the high-frame rates on PS5 even in stressed areas, it is easy to see that a dynamic res scaler would make the end-result the same as Xbox Series X (which can also benefit from DRS in scenarios where it drops frames)
Dirt 5: False. Dirt 5 still uses lower settings on XSX. And none of the problems were fixed in the 60 FPS mode. You can check NXGamer's video for more details.
Valhalla: Series X doesn't drop frames because it lowers to the resolution to 1080p, while PS5 maintains 1440p. How is it ANY different than Hitman 3? Only the roles are reversed here for consoles.
You don't understand constant? The Series X version of Hitman 3 is ALWAYS 44% higher resolution with higher shadows than the PS5 version. Valhalla is actually lowest 1188p but even those breakdowns show that in certain cases it can run higher on Series X than PS5, it's completely variable. Most of the time they would be practically the same.
PropellerEar
Member
Yes 44% higher res, atleast I am not is denying that. The shadows quality is also better on XsX.
This game looks like it is rasterization heavy, this is where we have seen and can expect PS5 beat XsX everytime.
I think what
Heisenberg007
is saying, is that with dynamic res we would know, what PS5 would be able to do on this engine.But for me that is pure speculation because the Devs decided for the locked lower res on PS5.
Clear win for XsX as it is, if that is important.
silent head
Member
ONLY 1 FPSYes 44% higher res, atleast I am not is denying that. The shadows quality is also better on XsX.
This game looks like it is rasterization heavy, this is where we have seen and can expect PS5 beat XsX everytime.
I think what
But for me that is pure speculation because the Devs decided for the locked lower res on PS5.
Clear win for XsX as it is, if that is important.
Leyasu
Banned
But you thought that all of the other games that favoured the ps5 were though right?!
Seeing your input in those face off threads makes me think so.
Md Ray
Member
You clearly don't seem to understand how it works.
You can see his response above.
What is this BS? See his tweet above.
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TheGejsza
Member
It's a major win for XBOX and IMO first REAL difference that makes one version significantly better. The reasons might be multiple but don't forget that this is the difference that most expected by looking at consoles specs. Still it is mostly last-gen game so not much of a deal. But don't forget the PS3 situations - when tools matured and devs got some experiance the games started to look amazing.
I still think PS5 and XBOX have a lot of power in them that has not been yet unleashed.
Now it's getting interesting - I am curious in performance in Resident Evil 8 on XBOX and PS5. That's gonna be next big title that will push the consoles... The question is how RE:Engine is capable of use more unusual PS5 specs - I think Capcom and Sony are working close together (Maiden demo) and hope for some optimization.. If that's not the case I think we will se better results on XBOX.
I still think PS5 and XBOX have a lot of power in them that has not been yet unleashed.
Now it's getting interesting - I am curious in performance in Resident Evil 8 on XBOX and PS5. That's gonna be next big title that will push the consoles... The question is how RE:Engine is capable of use more unusual PS5 specs - I think Capcom and Sony are working close together (Maiden demo) and hope for some optimization.. If that's not the case I think we will se better results on XBOX.
The 5700 XT, not 5700, is a better comparison point, since Alex was saying that in actual gameplay, the PS5 was doing better than a 2060 Super (60 FPS vs 55 FPS).
I thought it was a great video that made some really specific points.
He specifically started he got the exact PC equivalent console settings from the developer themselves instead of having to guess them by eye, so where he saw unexplained differences he speculated these would be, in the instance he highlighted, memory bandwidth related. I think this was his point in relation to XSX performing relatively better to the PC equivalent than PS5... Because Xbox has better memory bandwidth possibly?
Memory bandwidth seems to matter more the closer to 4k you try to render at. I don't think you will see advantages at all between PS5 and XSX at 1440p because memory bandwidth does not matter at that resolution and this maybe is why PS5 is seeming to be winning, although close, in these early games as its faster clocks may make a difference.
If devs start putting out 4k or near 4k native games regularly then XSX will pull well ahead due to power and bandwidth advantages.
Worth noting also, he shows that neither PS5 or XSX use VRS in this game. PC does however, using Tier 1, and in this game VRS gives 3% frames advantage on Quality mode. He doesn't say what the increase is in Performance mode as to him it degrades the image too much.
VRS tier 2 I am assuming, because it is hardware based, will offer even better performance increase than 3%. Certainly looks like it in Gears 5 Hivebusters.
Important to note that VRS does increase performance and it will be a miss if PS5 does not have it.
He specifically started he got the exact PC equivalent console settings from the developer themselves instead of having to guess them by eye, so where he saw unexplained differences he speculated these would be, in the instance he highlighted, memory bandwidth related. I think this was his point in relation to XSX performing relatively better to the PC equivalent than PS5... Because Xbox has better memory bandwidth possibly?
Memory bandwidth seems to matter more the closer to 4k you try to render at. I don't think you will see advantages at all between PS5 and XSX at 1440p because memory bandwidth does not matter at that resolution and this maybe is why PS5 is seeming to be winning, although close, in these early games as its faster clocks may make a difference.
If devs start putting out 4k or near 4k native games regularly then XSX will pull well ahead due to power and bandwidth advantages.
Worth noting also, he shows that neither PS5 or XSX use VRS in this game. PC does however, using Tier 1, and in this game VRS gives 3% frames advantage on Quality mode. He doesn't say what the increase is in Performance mode as to him it degrades the image too much.
VRS tier 2 I am assuming, because it is hardware based, will offer even better performance increase than 3%. Certainly looks like it in Gears 5 Hivebusters.
Important to note that VRS does increase performance and it will be a miss if PS5 does not have it.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
ONLY 1 FPS
Does not mean that it's like that on console, for example AF 16x on PC is standard for 20 years and on consoles we are getting AF 8x by now. There are unique bandwidth constraints, also 500USD vs 1000USD+
Rikkori
Member
Full breakdown here:
Moving Gears to Tier 2 Variable Rate Shading - DirectX Developer Blog
The team at The Coalition haven’t stopped innovating since bringing Tier 1 VRS to Gears Tactics, and have brought Tier 2 VRS support to both Gears 5 and Gears Tactics. The team saw similarly large perf gains from VRS Tier 2 – up to 14%! – this time with no noticeable visual impact. See for […]
devblogs.microsoft.com
Soulblighter31
Banned
As Alex points out, this game and Watch Dogs are the only instances where we have precise settings for consoles directly from the developer. Theres no guess work involved nor subjective involvement for one vendor or another. These 2 games paint a vanilla 2070 ballpark performance for the ps5. And the settings used are low, medium and turned off other than textures. It seems the need for higher resolutions is strangling the performance of these machines right from the get go.
GametimeUK
Member
Hitman 3 is my most anticipated game of the year. I went with the PS5 version despite having a capable gaming rig (2080). I'm starting to wish I got the PC version, but the lack of a steam release and the inclusion of VR on console was just enough to swing in favour of the PS5 version for now. I'll buy again when it releases on Steam.
The game has delivered in content, quality of the port and definitely when it comes to these performance analysis because the reactions have been priceless.
All versions are great, but the pecking order is clearly established.
The game has delivered in content, quality of the port and definitely when it comes to these performance analysis because the reactions have been priceless.
All versions are great, but the pecking order is clearly established.
drotahorror
Member
Waitin on them Nintendo Switch Benchmarks.
*and it's the cloud version. Damn. Would have been quite the contrast to see a native Switch version of this.
*and it's the cloud version. Damn. Would have been quite the contrast to see a native Switch version of this.
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DonJuanSchlong
Banned
Why are so many in denial about next gen consoles and their PC equivalent gpu's, more specifically, the Sony fanboys? I don't even think Cerny mentioned a comparable gpu, because of this exact reason.
BlueXImpulse
Banned
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
Who was in denial about what exactly?
BlueXImpulse
Banned
Soulblighter31
Banned
That is a game that performs poorly on nvidia compared to AMD and which settings on PC were matched by using guesswork with the naked eye. Thats not comparable to the situation at hand, where the game has the exact console settings provided by the developer. Same with Watch Dogs Legion. Those 2 dont paing a picture where the PS5 is at 2080 levels
Snake29
Banned
One game is better optimized for one engine then the other. We will constantly see differences between these consoles, and no xbox fanboys, the tables are not turned based on 1 game. Otherwise the tables were already turn multiple times in favor off the PS5.
The PS5 is still overall the better performing console in most games right now (even this game if that res different doesn't do anything at the end for most people).
The PS5 is still overall the better performing console in most games right now (even this game if that res different doesn't do anything at the end for most people).
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blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
Strange results from PS5 l don't get it another DF video (Assassins Creed) had the PS5 delivering near 2080 performance.
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DonJuanSchlong
Banned
Yeah, in an AMD sponsored title. What GPU would you compare it to on AMD side of things? And comparing that gpu to Nvidia's gpu's, in a plethora of benchmarks, you'll see why Hitman comparison gives more proof to what he been said all along. Ps5 isn't some mystical gpu that can surpass it's physical core count, clockspeed, vram amount. We gotta go with reality instead of wishing upon a star.
BlueXImpulse
Banned
This was the denial I was speaking about.
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
You seem to be stuck in denial. Ps5 doesn't touch the top of the line gpu's like many proclaim. It's like a glorified 5700 with limited raytracing capabilities.. Just about all comparisons have shown this, multiple times already. Or are you denying this as well?
Aguero9320
Member
As more games come out and this keeps happening it's going to be brutal if the panic over this one game is prologue - endless cries of fake news, claims of biased comparisons stolen by Microsoft and eventually, PSAnon are in our futures #PhilSpencerisalizardoverlord etc.
Die Namek Ability
Member
This is a way oversimplification of what was actually shown in the video. In specifically gpu mem bandwidth the PS5 looks to be between a 5700 and 2060s however, they couldn't determine the overall grunt of the PS5 due to the framerate cap and v-sync. Also what i found interesting is that even though the XsX hold a 44% res performance gam in this game based on the benchmarks in the video and using that mem bandwidth heavy scene, the reality is the PS5 is at 109% of a 5700 and the XsX is only at 123% of a 5700. To me this proves that the mem bandwidth of the XsX is infact more performant than that of the PS5 even with its mem setup however not as large as the raw numbers would indicate.
Die Namek Ability
Member
I think both consoles are above that of a 5700xt, this was really just a test of mem bandwidth as Alex mentioned. Due to the frame cap at 60 who knows how the compare outside of that mem bandwidth starved dip?
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
So in other words, a glorified 5700, not a 2080s, 3090, or whatever other cards many throw around for the sake of being completely wrong. They won't ever touch the abilities or those cards because of the hardware limitations. This was my point. People need to come back down to reality. Consoles are great price too performance machines, but they won't hold their weight compared to the cards mentioned above. As soon as people can grasp this reality, the sooner these "battles" can be over, as the war has already been decided.
Die Namek Ability
Member
No. In mem bandwidth yes, in other areas no. Thats the thing with custom HW its not as easy as GPU A= GPU B. When you consider things like the Geometry engine and chach scrubbers who knows where it really sits. The unit has been shown to operate as high as a 2080s and as low as a 5700, there are way too many factors at play here. And in my personal opinion the phrasing you are using "glorified" implies negativity and is inciting negative responses towards you. But i think that was your intent anyway.
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
Glorified isn't a negative term to describe something, and it's no different in this case either. The GPU is "custom" in that sense, but not like the actual custom gpu's like in the ps2 era of time. They are simply modified versions of prexisting tech from AMD.
Just because you have an outlier, which just so happens to be an AMD sponsored title, doesn't mean it's an equivalent to a 2080s. Anyone should be able to come to that conclusion from seeing PC benchmarks between AMD and Nvidia on a plethora of games. It translates to consoles as well, which has been obvious with all the comparisons.
Die Namek Ability
Member
Ok then a 2080s is a glorified PS5. Nice logic
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
Not even close, but nice try!
Die Namek Ability
Member
I applied the same logic you used to call the PS5 a glorified 5700. And it is not negative as you stated so what gives? Can you elaborate?
5700 XT, not 5700. (And we still don't have any real rasterization benchmarks.)
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
Ps5 has very similar performance of a 5700 gpu. It's no where remotely close to a 2080s, which most people have realized by now. Calling a 2080s a glorified ps5, is a huge disservice. It has way better bandwith, raytracing abilities, cores, etc. It's not even in the same league. It's as if you'd believe a Bugatti is a glorified ford pinto, which is similar to your comparison.
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
Depends on what game is benched. It can be 5700 levels, above or below.
Die Namek Ability
Member
Mr Moose
Member
1440p is 77% more pixels than 1080p.
Die Namek Ability
Member
Its in the same league as the 2080s as the 5700 is in the same league as the PS5. When the PS5 holds those same advantages over 5700 that the 2080s does over the PS5 how is it not a "disservice" to the PS5 to call it a "glorified" 5700? Watching you struggle in this logic loop you created is quite entertaining.
Riky
$MSFT
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