It's weird. I could have sworn that the PC versions of Hitman 2 and Contracts had visible bullet holes on enemies before, but they don't seem to in these HD Collection versions. Am I just remembering them wrong? I know that the console versions didn't have them because of memory limitations.
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Hitman Trilogy HD |OT|
- Thread starter Ape Gone Insane
- Start date
It's weird. I could have sworn that the PC versions of Hitman 2 and Contracts had visible bullet holes on enemies before, but they don't seem to in these HD Collection versions. Am I just remembering them wrong? I know that the console versions didn't have them because of memory limitations.
Moff
Member
i think Hitman 1 was better than Hitman 2but the first game was pretty janky and clearly they were just trying things out. As mentioned, the best missions are remade in Hitman 3.
however the series did lose visible bullet holes on enemies and customizable dual wielding. In hitman 1 you could hold a single Hardballer and a Desert Eagle at the same time for example.
Small stuff but still. And both 1&2 have those long annoying stealth/rambo missions like Japan in Hitman 2 and the Jungle in Hitman 1.
yeah the long and linear missions in hitman 2 were really a drag. I am quite surprised that hitman 2 is so popular in the fanbase, many hold it over blood money. in my opinion there were too many linear missiones, they are more linear than the ones in absolution, and they are not fun at all due to the clunky shooting mechanics and gameplay in general.
still, I'd rate hitman 2 higher than hitman 1 today
I think the HD collection is making me appreciate Absolution even more than I already did. I'm liking Contracts a lot though, it's the one I played the least and I didn't realize it was more blood money-esque compared to SA with the control scheme.
I'm 99% sure Blood Money doesn't.
I'm 99% sure Blood Money doesn't.
Moff
Member
contracts was the first really really good hitman game, in a sense that it only had these missions we know and love hitman for. I just couldnt help to feel underwhelmed by it because most missions were remakes, and I already played the shit out of them in codename 47. its also the reasons why I'd place absolution after blood money in my hitman ranking, and its probably also why contracts is the least played and talked about title in the franchise.
PS3 version here too and it looks like a solid 30fps to me.
It's definitely not 60fps (maybe it appears smoother to you because you might have a motion thingy turned on, on your tv).
=)
Hah, no I have motion interpolation turned off on my TV. I wouldn't dare play with that shit on.
All three Hitman HD games look to be running at a framerate higher than 30 to me, though. I'm no authority on the subject, but I have a pretty good eye for these things usually. Where's Digital Foundry when you need them?
keltickennedy
Member
Yeah, I mostly just watched my brother play Hitman 2. I would do a couple levels and help him figure shit out. But man, I remember getting Contracts for the first time on PC when I was in College. Dat meatpacking factory level....so good.
You mentioned that they re-imagined some of the Hitman Codename 47 levels? I'm guessing The Bjarkhov Bomb was one of them? What other ones?
You shouldn't need them to tell you, though. Just 2 seconds of footage would be enough to tell me one way or another.
Actually, Bjarkhov Bomb isn't one of the remade levels from Codename 47. All of the Lee Hong missions, Traditions of the Trade, and maybe the Rotterdam mission were all remakes of levels from the first game. I could be wrong, but I think all of the others are unique to Contracts.
Well, to my eyes it looks like something approaching 60fps, but then Oneself disagreed with me. So now I don't know what to believe anymore!
BibiMaghoo
Member
It was not great as a story. But aspects of it were. The character building is way, way over anything they have done in the previous hitman games. I respect the trying and failing to be top notch, over never trying at all.
No, I played them all at release on PS2, with exception of the first game obviously. I didn't replay them before going into Absolution, which I enjoyed immensley. People get to hung up on the whole 'what hitman is meant to be'' thing.
To me, hitman is a stealth game. It is a stealth game that delivers choice in regards to how you go about completion, and has ammusing and thoughtful ways of eliminating enemies. This is how I define a hitman game. Absolution takes everything above from previous games and improves upon it. The difference is that people see the levels inbetween open levels as a failure, as something that detracts from the overall experience. I see it as something extra. Some extra levels to move along the plot. Absolution, despite the hate, is better in everyway than the games that came before it.
The first 15 seconds of the game:
A man will come for you...
This man will be different...
He, will protect you...
I cannot go with you..
This level of writing, characterisation, voice acting even, has never been even remotly achieved in any other hitman game. It is a massive step forward for the franchise. Agent 47 actually became a person in Absolution. He has motives that are relatable.
See, you get it. Beneath all the vitriol and hate from people unable to accept change, is the best hitman game that has been made.
It's not being unable to accept change. It's being unwilling to accept change for the worse.
BibiMaghoo
Member
Absolution is a phenomenal game, really. It is different, but even the linear levels still have a plethora of ways to approach which is still the infused hitman DNA through and through to me. They were actually a lot of fun, and the sheer amount of dialog within each level is an astounding level of detail. I do hope the next one made by them goes back to much more blood money style sandbox areas, but for a single installment i'd rank Absolution just under Blood Money and above the rest.
I find them all fairly flawed, even though I love the series. Silent Assassin is a very slow game, and not really in a good way. That sneak is absurd, and the AI can just flip out on you. The japan stretch is also terrible. Contracts still has some of the AI oddities, such as me just doing bjarkhhov bomb and for some reason halfway in the level getting "They are now looking for a suspicious civilian" even though I know he's in a spot no one can find him and I long since ditched the outfit itself. Blood Money was much, much easier and it was not hard to SA it all on Pro, which on one hand isn't bad because it made it more clear where you were not allowed(which is good), but I dunno. Absolution was actually a lot harder than I expected, in a good way. The worst part to me was not being able to drop weapons and such, meaning no metal detector/search segments. I feel in a lot of ways the engine they used for that game was straining the consoles and some of the design splintering off levels was made around that. If they reuse that engine next gen, bring back the stuff they dropped, and make large intricate levels...oh gawd.
I find them all fairly flawed, even though I love the series. Silent Assassin is a very slow game, and not really in a good way. That sneak is absurd, and the AI can just flip out on you. The japan stretch is also terrible. Contracts still has some of the AI oddities, such as me just doing bjarkhhov bomb and for some reason halfway in the level getting "They are now looking for a suspicious civilian" even though I know he's in a spot no one can find him and I long since ditched the outfit itself. Blood Money was much, much easier and it was not hard to SA it all on Pro, which on one hand isn't bad because it made it more clear where you were not allowed(which is good), but I dunno. Absolution was actually a lot harder than I expected, in a good way. The worst part to me was not being able to drop weapons and such, meaning no metal detector/search segments. I feel in a lot of ways the engine they used for that game was straining the consoles and some of the design splintering off levels was made around that. If they reuse that engine next gen, bring back the stuff they dropped, and make large intricate levels...oh gawd.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I'll just leave it at this:
I don't think that Absolution is a bad game. It's a pretty competent stealth game, albeit with a piss-poor story. If judged on its own merits, I'd say it's worth playing if you're starving for stealth gameplay.
That being said, Absolution offers very little of what I find enjoyable in a Hitman game. Sure, it's more polished and has improved controls, but the improvements pretty much stop there IMO. It takes one step forward and about five steps backward.
Every criticism that I could levy against it has already been said ad-nauseum elsewhere online and on GAF. The instinct system sucks, the disguise system is borderline broken, the freedom from the early games is mostly gone, stealth mechanics and level design are more akin to a Splinter Cell game than a Hitman game, awful plot and weird characterization... etc. The list goes on and on.
I understand if some of you like Absolution, but please don't assume that my disliking the game is fueled by nothing more than fanboyism. I quit halfway through Absolution because I just wasn't enjoying it at all.
I don't think that Absolution is a bad game. It's a pretty competent stealth game, albeit with a piss-poor story. If judged on its own merits, I'd say it's worth playing if you're starving for stealth gameplay.
That being said, Absolution offers very little of what I find enjoyable in a Hitman game. Sure, it's more polished and has improved controls, but the improvements pretty much stop there IMO. It takes one step forward and about five steps backward.
Every criticism that I could levy against it has already been said ad-nauseum elsewhere online and on GAF. The instinct system sucks, the disguise system is borderline broken, the freedom from the early games is mostly gone, stealth mechanics and level design are more akin to a Splinter Cell game than a Hitman game, awful plot and weird characterization... etc. The list goes on and on.
I understand if some of you like Absolution, but please don't assume that my disliking the game is fueled by nothing more than fanboyism. I quit halfway through Absolution because I just wasn't enjoying it at all.
rosaceadude2112
Member
Blood Money has a great story with smart, subtle commentary, and 47's characterization was much stronger than in Absolution.
BibiMaghoo
Member
If you would rather not go over it, then cool.
But I would say you have done yourself a massive disservice by not finishing the game. You have also missed some of the best and most 'old school' levels by doing so.
If you have played half of it only, you really have no right to judge the entire game in such a way. But I don't attribute it to fanboyism or anything, was just interested in your reasons why.
I would just say that the 'broken disguise system' is the most common complaint, but one that is simpy wrong. The system is perfect. It only falls down in two levels or so, due to level design. It's only a problem when the only costumes reachable in a level are all the same, hence making them useless and making the player use stealth instead.
I want to play the Hitman: Absolution you played, because my experience with the levels in Absolution was completely the opposite.
Ravensmash
Member
I've kind of ignored Hitman 2 since getting on to the 4th/5th mission - just doesn't feel as fun and varied as Blood Money (obviously).
I'm genuinely surprised that people enjoyed this disguise system in the older games (not sure how it is in Contracts) because combined with the slow walking speed it makes missions feel like more of a slog than the free roaming sandbox that Blood Money gave us.
Does it pick up?
Maybe I was just spoilt by Blood Money, but yeah, feels like Silent Assassin has some really weird design decisions indeed.
I'm genuinely surprised that people enjoyed this disguise system in the older games (not sure how it is in Contracts) because combined with the slow walking speed it makes missions feel like more of a slog than the free roaming sandbox that Blood Money gave us.
Does it pick up?
Maybe I was just spoilt by Blood Money, but yeah, feels like Silent Assassin has some really weird design decisions indeed.
rosaceadude2112
Member
Shaving Lenny was the only level I really liked at all. Even the other ones that attempted the sandboxy murders of the previous games were too simplistic, usually amounting to "wait here, press button on x to kill guy."
Macho Madness
Member
I agree. I've spent maybe 10-15 hours on Hitman 2 and Contracts wondering why anyone likes these games. The trial and error is becoming way too much and I'll probably be dropping this quickly. I love Blood Money, it's just these earlier games that are pretty much unplayable these days. There doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to them.
Absolution is a lot of fun too. Sure, it took away a lot of the freedom but it ended up being a lot of fun still.
keltickennedy
Member
I am having a really good time going back and playing Absolution while figuring out how to unlock all the challenges in each level.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Hitman 2 really doesn't hold up when it needs to. Contracts was such a huge improvement, and Blood Money perfected it. I appreciate Contracts much more after going back for a taste of Silent Assassin. Man.
BibiMaghoo
Member
Every target without exception allows multiple ways to kill them.
The bar is set by the player. Some will just walk through the front door and shoot everyone.
Check out the challenges for each level. You will be surprised how many variations each level has.
rosaceadude2112
Member
Yeah man I know. I'm just saying the methods were too simplistic. Dropping the disco ball on the guy in the strip club or poisoning the king of Chinatown's sushi(hell every way to kill that guy is lame) barely require any planning or forethought at all, and certainly don't need any amount of cleverness.
Yeah, I appreciate Contracts more after playing this collection as well. Hitman 2 still has a better atmosphere and some great levels, but Contracts really did improve upon it in a lot of subtle ways.
BibiMaghoo
Member
In defense of Chinatown, I kinda thought it was a 'tutorial' hit, hence the size.
The 'real' version of that level is later on, with more hits and options.
I thought some of the later ones in the penthouse were fairly...creative in places.
The problem is, for all the cleverness the older games can allow, they rely 100% on trial and error and suffer from poor AI reactions and vague mechanics. If you REALLY dig in and REALLY pull it apart it can reward you, but the simple act of controlling 47 and executing actions was poor. It is something IO has struggled with for over a decade. Until Absolution they failed to produce satisfying controls and core mechanics in any of their games.
Hitman only worked as a result of its larger concept and interesting ideas (along with great atmosphere which they've always done well). I believe Kane and Lynch failed simply because those games focused so heavily ON the core mechanics which they simply design well.
Absolution also, I feel, offers a nice level of density per level. There are plenty of objects to interact with and the buildings you do enter are fully explorable.
I couldn't help but feel that Absolution provided an experience that was part Hitman and part Thief. The stealth segments are fun and possible to push through without lots of trial and error (for the most part) and the standard assassination missions are still open ended if slightly smaller in scope. It's an interesting balance and a solid game.
Good mechanics, improved AI, and more variety all go a long way to creating something solid.
rosaceadude2112
Member
Am I like the only person who never had a problem with the controls for the other games? What exactly was so bad about them?
rosaceadude2112
Member
Even the "real" version suffers from this. Follow the guy until he stands on a puddle of gasoline.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
We don't talk about the problems in Blood Money flipping that fucking coin for the first time. 20 goddamn minutes.
That might be nitpicking a little. All of the Hitman games feature kills that amount to following someone and then pressing the action button on some vital object.
My beef with Absolution is that so many of the levels weren't even Hitman levels. No target to kill. No sandbox. No freedom. Just going from point A to point B to advance the horrendous story.
I never had problems with the controls, but the feel of playing the game was shit. Bad animation, poor interactions, bad AI, horrible collision detection, etc etc. The simple feeling of moving around and executing actions was poor. If that doesn't matter to you, fine, but it makes a huge difference to me.
rosaceadude2112
Member
Again, never had a problem with anything. The controls are smooth, I liked the contextual actions, the animation is fine, I don't know what poor interactions means. What horrible collision detection? Honestly thought the way 47 moved in Absolution was a bit rigid. And it was a little annoying needing to use 30 different buttons that each had a single function when several could have been contextual.
And yeah, the AI has always had some issues but don't front and pretend this was improved in Absolution.
Macho Madness
Member
Not here to defend Absolution a ton but to say the AI and control wasn't improved in Absolution is plain wrong. You can criticize the lack of freedom and options but the core was improved ten-fold over the older games.
Dick Justice
Banned
AI in Absolution was a huge leap forward.
rosaceadude2112
Member
Nothing wrong with Absolution's controls or anything, it's just weird seeing people constantly talk about how the other games were these massive jank-fests and how Absolution was like the next stage of human evolution in comparison. It's really not that big of a difference.
It is more advanced, but much of that good is undone by the horrible disguise system. If you're wearing the same outfit as an NPC (and you always are, since there are only 1-3 outfits per level on average), they will become suspicious of you if you even glance in their general direction from across the friggin' level.
BibiMaghoo
Member
This is disingenuous. There are two levels where everyone shares the same outfit. These are story progression levels that do not have targets.
There are maybe two where the alternate costume is difficult to find.
Damn man, go back and play the game. You are just wrong, and are basing your comments on having not even played the game through.
stn
Member
I can respect someone's opinion if he believes Absolution is the best. But honestly, to me its probably the worst in the series. I'm not even finished with it and I've already come to that conclusion. Its a solid game but doesn't have as much Hitman as I want.
So, why do I say this? Well:
-Awful disguise system.
-Score tally kills some of the immersion.
-Doesn't feature targets in every mission.
-Hitman was never about the "story" even though it tries to be in this one.
-Some really awful missions
-Instinct. Meh.
-No customized loadouts.
-No memorable music thus far.
-Too much Splinter Cell: Conviction.
I'm 30% through the game and none of the missions feel memorable to me at all. All I want from my Hitman games is to travel across the world in a suit and tie with fiber wire in my case. I want fresh targets for every mission, variety in environments, and a working disguise system.
I DON'T want a score tally or a bunch of missions that have me opening doors as part of completion.
What would I keep from Absolution? The cover system, David Bateson, and the graphics. What should IO do for the next one? How about some unique missions? Say tracking down a target on a speeding train through Switzerland? How about taking out a target at a boxing match?
I also think it'd be cool if you're hunted from the beginning of the game, and you have to somehow outrun your hunters every mission. And you don't exactly know who they are but have to figure it out as you go along.
I don't know, just thinking out loud. What do you guys think?
So, why do I say this? Well:
-Awful disguise system.
-Score tally kills some of the immersion.
-Doesn't feature targets in every mission.
-Hitman was never about the "story" even though it tries to be in this one.
-Some really awful missions
A shooting gallery to get your silverballers back?
-No customized loadouts.
-No memorable music thus far.
-Too much Splinter Cell: Conviction.
I'm 30% through the game and none of the missions feel memorable to me at all. All I want from my Hitman games is to travel across the world in a suit and tie with fiber wire in my case. I want fresh targets for every mission, variety in environments, and a working disguise system.
I DON'T want a score tally or a bunch of missions that have me opening doors as part of completion.
What would I keep from Absolution? The cover system, David Bateson, and the graphics. What should IO do for the next one? How about some unique missions? Say tracking down a target on a speeding train through Switzerland? How about taking out a target at a boxing match?
I also think it'd be cool if you're hunted from the beginning of the game, and you have to somehow outrun your hunters every mission. And you don't exactly know who they are but have to figure it out as you go along.
I don't know, just thinking out loud. What do you guys think?
I suppose the problem I'm seeing is that people have become so obsessed with what the game isn't that they can't enjoy it for what it is.
I feel as if people are becoming far too jaded these days and unable to appreciate a game on its own merits.
You're right, it's not a traditional Hitman game. I still find what IS there to be well designed and fun to play. Could they have done even better? Sure, this is always the case, but as it stands I feel people are taking far too hard a stance on Absolution.
I feel as if people are becoming far too jaded these days and unable to appreciate a game on its own merits.
You're right, it's not a traditional Hitman game. I still find what IS there to be well designed and fun to play. Could they have done even better? Sure, this is always the case, but as it stands I feel people are taking far too hard a stance on Absolution.
BibiMaghoo
Member
What you're describing is disappointment, not jadedness. Fans of the series feel disappointed when they wait for years for a successor to Blood Money and get something that pretty much ignores nearly all of the series' biggest strengths. Does it have passable stealth gameplay from a sneaking/killing perspective? Sure. It's not a terrible game by any means.
But any entry in a series that takes away more value than it adds to the core formula is going to be met with resentment. That's just a natural reaction, in my opinion, and one that is completely warranted.
And with regard to the claim that I shouldn't criticize the game because I didn't play it all the way through: Isn't the fact that I disliked it enough to quit halfway through saying enough about it? If a game isn't enjoyable until after the halfway point, I'd say it's not a very good game.
Ravensmash
Member
i'd really be happy with the next game just building on Blood Money.
A narrative that takes a back seat (which allows great diversity in missions which feel nice and separate), great controls, great freedom without being ridiculously restrictive (ahem, Hitman 2).
I mean, I know I keep moaning about it - but Hitman 2 feels like a game that wants to be open and sandboxy, but punishes the player with tedium and frustration, whereas Blood Money felt just right.
I think I will skip Hitman 2 at present, because currently I'm looking at a guide at the start of every level, because I'm fed up of being shot at for walking slightly fast lol.
stn
Member
Silent Assassin is good but definitely has too much trial-and-error. It has some very memorable missions that are amazing to play once you figure them out. Contracts improved on this and Blood Money took it a step further. A fusion of SA, Contracts, and BM would make the perfect game. I'd also include the cover system from Absolution, its needed.
BibiMaghoo
Member
Not when claiming a system is broken through untrue statements. A statement you would know well is false had you played the game through.
2 levels. No targets.
They are stealth sections to progress the story. If a level has no target and allows you to pick up a disguise and walk through it, then what is that level. It is walking from A to B. Forcing stealth in these sections means they have a purpose within the game itself.
People that critisize this are ignoring this perfectly valid reason, why no disguise exists in these levels.
It is not broken. It was designed that way deliberatly. The levels with targets do not only have one disguise, in any of the game.
Okay, we're just gonna have to figure out why we played two completely different games that were both named Hitman: Absolution. I stopped after Dexter Industries (aka Hitman: Conviction), and I only played two levels up to that point that resembled Hitman levels in the slightest: King of Chinatown and Shaving Lenny. That's it.
I'm not counting the opening mission because it's just a tutorial.
stn
Member
I would agree with this but I'd want the music from Silent Assassin. This is definitely my absolute favorite theme, love it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzeAnxsR9kU