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Hitting a Major League fastball should be physically impossible

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N

neurosisxeno

Member
This is why I never really understood the debate about steroids in baseball. Yea, it will add 50 feet to your hit, but just hitting the god damn ball is the hard part. Why does whether or not a handful of guys hit 5-10 extra home runs a season going to break the entire game? You don't think when guys like Conseco or Maguire were mashing the ball there weren't literally HUNDREDS of minor leaguers juicing that nobody gave a crap about because they couldn't hit crap?

Lets put this in context; Barry Bonds. The guy was a career .298 hitter--which is pretty good considering the league average in those days was about .260-.270--and even before he started breaking records was regularly hitting 30-40 HR's a season. During the 90's his average was just over .300 a season, which is really good. Now you might be thinking "maybe more strength increases swing speed and made him hit better", but the funny thing is Bonds didn't start juicing until 1998. He had already had 3 MVP seasons, 8 Silver Slugger awards, 7 Golden Gloves, and 7 Allstar appearances.

The point I'm trying to make is, alright yea, Steroids helped Barry Bonds break the single season home run record. But he was already a future hall of famer, who was an amazing baseball player. There were probably thousands of players over that time frame in the MLB who get no notoriety because they just weren't very good compared to him. So personally, if he athletes want to get all jacked up on steroids to on average hit 5-10 more HR's that would just be fly outs, I say let them. If you can go out there and hit .300 or .320 a season, you're going to be successful no matter what. I mean shit, 41 year old Ichiro is batting like .410 right now--in the pitching dominant National League at that.
 
D

Doc_Drop

Member
It is massively impressive seeing baseball with the fastball, cricket with the speed and intricacy of the bounce and the fact it's out of your eye line most of the time at the start of the bowl, and ice hockey never ceases to amaze me with the speed the puck travels.

Having only played a little village cricket my experience is limited but I did play against Mark Footit (was in the England squad) and boy did that ball move. Got tagged 3 times in a row, to the point where the umpire had to ask him to bowl less aggressively. Scary stuff
 
G

gamz

Member
neurosisxeno said:
This is why I never really understood the debate about steroids in baseball. Yea, it will add 50 feet to your hit, but just hitting the god damn ball is the hard part. Why does whether or not a handful of guys hit 5-10 extra home runs a season going to break the entire game? You don't think when guys like Conseco or Maguire were mashing the ball there weren't literally HUNDREDS of minor leaguers juicing that nobody gave a crap about because they couldn't hit crap?

Lets put this in context; Barry Bonds. The guy was a career .298 hitter--which is pretty good considering the league average in those days was about .260-.270--and even before he started breaking records was regularly hitting 30-40 HR's a season. During the 90's his average was just over .300 a season, which is really good. Now you might be thinking "maybe more strength increases swing speed and made him hit better", but the funny thing is Bonds didn't start juicing until 1998. He had already had 3 MVP seasons, 8 Silver Slugger awards, 7 Golden Gloves, and 7 Allstar appearances.

The point I'm trying to make is, alright yea, Steroids helped Barry Bonds break the single season home run record. But he was already a future hall of famer, who was an amazing baseball player. There were probably thousands of players over that time frame in the MLB who get no notoriety because they just weren't very good compared to him. So personally, if he athletes want to get all jacked up on steroids to on average hit 5-10 more HR's that would just be fly outs, I say let them. If you can go out there and hit .300 or .320 a season, you're going to be successful no matter what. I mean shit, 41 year old Ichiro is batting like .410 right now--in the pitching dominant National League at that.
Click to expand...

Because baseball prides itself on history and it's stats. When modern players are breaking records because of steroids and drugs it's frowned upon.
 
{insert code here}

{insert code here}

Member
Unknown Soldier said:
The batter is more or less predicting (guessing) what the pitcher will throw and swinging before he knows.

When the batter guesses wrong is when you see him swinging wildly through a chest-high fastball. When the batter guesses right is when he hits the same fastball into orbit.
Click to expand...

Sorry but this couldn't be more wrong. If all it took was guessing then I could be an MLB shortstop but sadly I can't because hitting a baseball takes a lot more skill than just "guessing" lol.
 
C

crimsondynamics

Member
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls said:
Generally because the surface of the racket is larger and there is a better anticipation of where the ball is going to be. Problem with a fastball is that the location isn't always where a batter expects it to be. Middle of the plate, inside, outside, at the knees, in the dirt, up at the chest...and on and on.
Click to expand...

Not just that, but the speed of the ball on a tennis serve is just the initial speed. Once the hairy, irregular surface of the tennis ball creates all that aerodynamic drag, plus the bounce, by the time the ball actually reaches the opponent the approach speed is much lower than the initial velocity.

DragonSworne said:
Returning a tennis ball serve and saving a penalty kick is harder.
Click to expand...

Not really - it's harder in the sense that it's more difficult (imposible) to reliably block a penalty kick, but there is so much guesswork behind a goalie trying to block a penalty kick which makes it less of a reflex ability and more about guesstimates.

In professional football, no goalie reacts after the ball is kicked; they already know where they plan to dive before the ball is kicked, after weighing the odds and considering their options.
 
S

SKINNER!

Banned
I play amateur baseball and I struggle to read a 60mph ball let alone hit it. I can't even begin to imagine how it's possible to do it at the 90mph+ Major leagues level. it really should be impossible but it's being done by remarkable athletes.
 
Y

yellowjacket25

Member
I actually faced guys in high school who threw in the low to mid 90s. I even got a few hits off some. Its not impossible to hit one. The hard part is when you face a pitcher with good location and a decent change up to go along with that fastball. For me it was all or nothing. If they threw a hard fastball in the strike zone then I had a pretty good chance. If they mixed it up then I had no chance.
 
S

SKINNER!

Banned
yellowjacket25 said:
I actually faced guys in high school who threw in the low to mid 90s. I even got a few hits off some. Its not impossible to hit one. The hard part is when you face a pitcher with good location and a decent change up to go along with that fastball. For me it was all or nothing. If they threw a hard fastball in the strike zone then I had a pretty good chance. If they mixed it up then I had no chance.
Click to expand...

That's what makes a great pitcher in my opinion. From my experience playing, you were able to make contact against the pitchers that consistently threw fast balls because you kinda see it coming. It was the pitchers who constantly switched it up (Fast ball, changeup, curve etc) that I struggled with. Requires good reading of the ball and patience. Things I don't have hahahaha.
 
P

Parch

Member
DragonSworne said:
Returning a tennis ball serve and saving a penalty kick is harder.
Click to expand...
I played a lot of tennis and baseball. Contact with a high speed tennis ball is easier than a good fastball. Probably because a "bunt" in tennis can be just as good as a full swing. All you really need to do on return serve is get the racket on the ball. Velocity certainly helps, but tennis aces are more about angles.

Spend some time in a batting cage and increasing the velocity directly affects difficulty. No matter how much you think you can anticipate, it's friggin hard. Add some movement to a good fastball and it approaches impossible.
 
X

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Bubba T said:
Makes you appreciate the greatness of Barry Bonds and other consistent hitters throughout their careers.
Click to expand...

Bonds pitch recognition at his peak was otherworldly.

gamz said:
Or Ted Williams being the last person to hit .400. That will never happen again.
Click to expand...

Bonds was pretty close one season...he may have actually done it if he actually got more balls in the strike zone instead of all those walks.

Bonds insane single season OBP is another number never getting touched.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
gamz said:
Or Ted Williams being the last person to hit .400. That will never happen again.
Click to expand...

Only reason it won't happen again is because pitchers of today aren't stupid enough to pitch those guys straight up.

Once your average starts to get up to about 320 you're gonna start getting walked a ton.
 
T

Tragicomedy

Member
I played in some adult friendly leagues, and can barely hit off of guys throwing low 70s. As in, the slowest change at the MLB level is close to unhittable for me. Almost nobody in our league was throwing curves or anything, just straight 60-70 MPH pitches. Even if you get lucky on the timing, there's a solid change you'll swing over/under the ball.

Shit is crazy. I hit below the Mendoza line.

DragonSworne said:
Returning a tennis ball serve and saving a penalty kick is harder.
Click to expand...

I don't know about the first, but the second is definitely false. I played keeper at the D1 level, and saving a penalty kick is almost 100% predictive statistics. You have to play the trends of a player driving the ball toward the opposite post of their dominant foot. Good managers/scouts at the professional level maintain metrics indicating where an opponent tends to kick, and the goalie will have the most success guessing accordingly.

You study the player's positioning, and watch their run up to the ball. But there's no chance in hell to actually wait for the strike and react. You play the odds and time your dive with the strike. There's no other viable option. There's a pretty good chapter in Soccernomics that explains the statistics behind penalties.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1568584814/?tag=neogaf0e-20
 
S

Simply Sarah

Member
XiaNaphryz said:
Bonds pitch recognition at his peak was otherworldly.



Bonds was pretty close one season...he may have actually done it if he actually got more balls in the strike zone instead of all those walks.

Bonds insane single season OBP is another number never getting touched.
Click to expand...

Yeah, regardless of what you think of the guy as a person or as a cheater or what have you, you cannot deny that his skill was incredible. I'd still say Williams and Ruth were better hitters on average throughout their careers and, if you want to try and adjust for eras, better hitters at their peak but Bonds at his peak certainly was a force not seen since Williams. It was pretty awe inspiring to watch.
 
B

bjork

Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
Only reason it won't happen again is because pitchers of today aren't stupid enough to pitch those guys straight up.

Once your average starts to get up to about 320 you're gonna start getting walked a ton.
Click to expand...

They should institute some kind of penalty against this. I watched a game a week or two ago where one guy batted seven times and they walked him 6 times. Bryce Harper, maybe? I get that it's strategy, but it seems excessive sometimes.
 
W

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
more impossible is when you have to account for different locations, fastballs with different movements and speeds....and then completely different pitches back to back. Try to hit a 95mph major league fastball when you have to keep in mind that the pitcher might throw a changeup at 80mph.
 
BFIB

BFIB

Member
bjork said:
They should institute some kind of penalty against this. I watched a game a week or two ago where one guy batted seven times and they walked him 6 times. Bryce Harper, maybe? I get that it's strategy, but it seems excessive sometimes.
Click to expand...
It's up to the hitters behind him to make them pay for walking Harper.
 
S

Sulik2

Member
Batter train their eyes to see the laces. The direction the laces are facing coming out of the pitchers hand reveals the type of pitch. The fact they can process that along with everything else is mind boggling.
 
B

BlackSalad

Member
Another thing overlooked by casual MLB fans is that batters and coaches do significant research on the starting pitchers throughout the league. They analyze the pitcher to best anticipate what pitch is coming and how to read each individual pitcher.

Likewise, pitchers and pitching coaches have far more work as they analyze most batters to pinpoint weaknesses and design a game-plan for each player.

Its pretty remarkable TBH
 
W

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
bjork said:
They should institute some kind of penalty against this. I watched a game a week or two ago where one guy batted seven times and they walked him 6 times. Bryce Harper, maybe? I get that it's strategy, but it seems excessive sometimes.
Click to expand...
the penalty is allowing a batter to go to first. When Barry Bonds was destroying everyone, teams decided to walk him a lot. With a player of Barry Bond's calibar it statistically made sense sometimes to walk him. But Harper is not at that level yet.

here is the walk bonds chart from ages ago (chart for on the road at least):

http://www.tangotiger.net/walkbondschart.html

and there is also this play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi7IPZAcP78

bonds walked with the bases loaded.
 
S

SaganIsGOAT

Junior Member
BlackSalad said:
Another thing overlooked by casual MLB fans is that batters and coaches do significant research on the starting pitchers throughout the league. They analyze the pitcher to best anticipate what pitch is coming and how to read each individual pitcher.

Likewise, pitchers and pitching coaches have far more work as they analyze most batters to pinpoint weaknesses and design a game-plan for each player.

Its pretty remarkable TBH
Click to expand...

Yeah it's amazing how much the game evolves as you progress through the leagues. In college we would sit in a classroom for a few hours discussing the other teams hitters, their tendencies, their weaknesses etc etc. the game became this completely new beast.
 
F

Faddy

Banned
gamz said:
Or Ted Williams being the last person to hit .400. That will never happen again.
Click to expand...

No one will hit .400 again because fielding has gotten much better. There is better understanding of where to position players, modern infielders have greater range than ever as well as outfielders being more athletic and able to run down more fly balls.
 
C

clemenx

Banned
Faddy said:
No one will hit .400 again because fielding has gotten much better. There is better understanding of where to position players, modern infielders have greater range than ever as well as outfielders being more athletic and able to run down more fly balls.
Click to expand...

Also, specialized relievers are huge. You now get a new pitcher every inning firing 100mph instead of the starter always chugging 80mph baseballs in the later innings.
 
D

Diamond

Member
jellies_two said:
How do tennis players connect with 250kmh tennis serves. Half the reaction time vs a fastball ?
Click to expand...

The ball speed is 250km/h (the average would be more 190km/h, 200 for very good servers) when it quits the server's racket. When it arrives to the returner, it has traveled in the air and has bounced once, so it's considerably slower when the other player has to connect with it (90-100-110km/h for a fast serve). Granted, it's still very difficult to touch, and in tennis you have to put it inside the court. You often see seasoned pros being incredibly frustrated against the best servers because there's no way they can return accurately all their first serves. They have to guess and hope for a few second serves.
 
C

clav

Member
Mortemis said:
Makes you appreciate Bartolo Colon's dinger even more, if that's even possible.
Click to expand...

Only 42 years young for a first career HR.

Today is his birthday, making him 43 years old.

https://youtu.be/OVFsq9FQBlc

boxter432 said:
It is impossible

For the MN Twins
Click to expand...

Once Byung-Ho Park gets used to American league pitching, he's going to be a beast. Showing some flashes already.

Windu said:
more impossible is when you have to account for different locations, fastballs with different movements and speeds....and then completely different pitches back to back. Try to hit a 95mph major league fastball when you have to keep in mind that the pitcher might throw a changeup at 80mph.
Click to expand...

Or pitches that look like one trajectory but once they arrive to the plate, they just drop.
 
Z

Zaraki_Kenpachi

Member
Diamond said:
The ball speed is 250km/h (the average would be more 190km/h, 200 for very good servers) when it quits the server's racket. When it arrives to the returner, it has traveled in the air and has bounced once, so it's considerably slower when the other player has to connect with it (90-100-110km/h for a fast serve). Granted, it's still very difficult to touch, and in tennis you have to put it inside the court. You often see seasoned pros being incredibly frustrated against the best servers because there's no way they can return accurately all their first serves. They have to guess and hope for a few second serves.
Click to expand...

Also if the person is that good of a server, part of it seems to be just prediction since they'll let a lot go through if it wasn't what they were waiting on.
 
X

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Windu said:
the penalty is allowing a batter to go to first. When Barry Bonds was destroying everyone, teams decided to walk him a lot. With a player of Barry Bond's calibar it statistically made sense sometimes to walk him. But Harper is not at that level yet.

here is the walk bonds chart from ages ago (chart for on the road at least):

http://www.tangotiger.net/walkbondschart.html

and there is also this play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi7IPZAcP78

bonds walked with the bases loaded.
Click to expand...

And that bases loaded walk was in 98, well before his suspect years.
 
B

BlackSalad

Member
SaganIsGOAT said:
Yeah it's amazing how much the game evolves as you progress through the leagues. In college we would sit in a classroom for a few hours discussing the other teams hitters, their tendencies, their weaknesses etc etc. the game became this completely new beast.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I cannot comprehend the amount of work done in the majors in that regard. You can tell it takes a lot of time and repetition for batters/pitchers to "get a feel" for each player on the opposing team.

This is why a call up from the minors can be so dangerous in their first few starts. There's not much (or any) research on minor leaguers in the majors. Even if the minor league player is not of MLB caliber, they can cause some damage for a game or two.

This is another conversation, but the road to be in the majors is crazy. I have a lot of respect to those in the various minor leagues. It takes a lot of commitment to keep going with a very small chance to make a major's roster. It can take years, a lot of years..
 
P

Parch

Member
The elite pitchers are the ones who have movement on the fastball. You get just a little bit of movement on a 95+ fastball and he's got ace potential.
 
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