TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Why not? I can't think of one that's better. Imo, I'd rank them like this
HK > Aria of Sorrow > Super Metroid > SOTN > all the rest
SOTN has amazing art and music and some neat level design, but imo the poor balance and absolute lack of any kind of challenge drag it down quite a bit.
If it's the only metroidvania you ever playedIt's the best metroidvania ever, dude.
Last edited:
ShadyAcshuns
Member
EruditeHobo
Member
Well I hate to be that guy, but this isn't about "good" or "bad" design. It's about choices.
Calling these decisions wrong or "shortcomings", or suggesting if they don't change than this dev team hasn't learned from some kind of previous mistake and will have meant they ignored legitimate criticism, is ridiculous. The entire fucking point of the game is getting lost in the world. There's a reason it's held up the way it is, because I can't think of other game that makes you think about the world in quite this way.
You don't have to like it. Things can not be for you or whatever, that's completely fine. I hated the breakable weapons in BOTW, but it's not a bad game because of it. It's just a game that's much less for me than other Zelda games, which I historically love.
In other words, if they changed the map or exploration, if they took away the use of pins, or EVEN if they did away with needing to invest in not being bounce-able, that would be a huge mistake that would piss a lot of people off. Because it honestly goes against what makes the first game so unique, and what makes the world feel so engrossing.
Again, you don't have to like it. But if I were you I wouldn't expect any of these things to change, because again this is a huge contributing factor to what all the fans love about the first game. You might as well be asking From to put an "easy boss mode" option in Elden Ring 2, because you were frustrated by Margot or whatever. That too runs contrary to the point of the game, and that's basically the level of this ask.
Precisely. To change the map/pins/exploration would quite literally and unavoidably damage the user's interaction with the world/environment. It would make it easier, and less interesting. Thank fuck there's roughly a zero percent chance of this "quality of life upgrade" being adopted for the sequel.
Last edited:
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
I don't care if someone thinks HK is the best, personally it's under Super Metroid, SOTN and even Animal Well, which is not a dig at the game, just preferences. I didn't like the biome diversity in HK and the metroidvania mechanics are underutilized or not really mind blowing.
But statements like Super Metroid has nothing on HK is not a good look on the HK community and them overrating the game. Never go full retard.
LQX
Member
Can't wait. Hollow Knight just kept giving and giving. What a game.
Also, I too did not think much of Hollow Knight at first, but once you get how the saving, mapping and the geo scheme works, it is ace. Look for the map guy every new area, hit EVERY wall with your blade for a potential secret area, farm geo, bench to save, farm geo, buy core upgrades.
Also, I too did not think much of Hollow Knight at first, but once you get how the saving, mapping and the geo scheme works, it is ace. Look for the map guy every new area, hit EVERY wall with your blade for a potential secret area, farm geo, bench to save, farm geo, buy core upgrades.
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
So it's fine for you to say that X game is better than Y, but if someone else says HK is better than whatever other game then that's going full retard?
Ok.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I have a better ranking system. I have two boxes.
Good Metroidvania and Bad Metroidvania.
I've been shitting on it a bit but I'm pretty sure HK and SS will both land in the Good Metroidvania box.
If there is anything bad about Hollow Knight maybe it's the fandom that buzzes around like a bunch of Mosquitoes about how it's the best ever and nothing comes close. You can land the most overzealous of such fandoms in the same place as Undertale or Sonic the Hedgehog fans.
The only real bad thing I've seen is probably Corpse runs to get back on track but if you have plenty of Fromsoft experience or played through Ghost Song it probably isn't that bad as long as you learn from your mistakes.
And if we dig deeper we have to remember the original Metroid had NO MAP at all and we were drawing our own. So it could be much worse then the typical Corpse Run.
Last edited:
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Game isn't THAT hard, or at least I don't remember dying that often. You'll probably have no issue with that.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
No but that's why you shouldn't believe everything you read. Game is so huge but it's probably anywhere between a 12-20 hour clear.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
So it's fine for you to say that X game is better than Y, but if someone else says HK is better than whatever other game then that's going full retard?
Ok.
He didn't say he prefers X over Y, he said Super Metroid has nothing on HK
Yes 100% retarded
Holammer
Member
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
It's difficult, but fair around mid-game towards the end. However there is a place that is in fact absolutely hard and requires incredible platforming skills, tho very optional, the White Palace. I was sweating playing through that place.
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
12-20? Believe me, it's way longer than that.
His opinion versus yours. Who are you to decide which one's the retarded take?He didn't say he prefers X over Y, he said Super Metroid has nothing on HK
Yes 100% retarded
I prefer HK as well, way longer game and with better gameplay.
100% agree + fuck that place lol.
Last edited:
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I'm a Super Mario and Donkey Kong Country veteran. I'll be fine. I've been places.
A real challenge is saving all the Koalas in Jet Force Gemini. Good lord.
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
The REAL challenge is not blowing them up on purpose lol.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
It is really hard. Especially since they really are a bunch of assholes.The REAL challenge is not blowing them up on purpose lol.
Timberwolf25
Member
The regular run and mill bosses might not be the hardest, but Radiance and Nightmare Grimm are really hard to beat. I've beaten Nightmare Grimm, but not Radiance yet and probably never will.
Kacho
Gold Member
Well said. I agree that HK qualifies as a good Metroidvania but the claims that it's the best ever always makes me roll my eyes. Opinions and all but I can never take someone seriously after that.
I think part of my dislike for the game is hearing it was so much better than Super Metroid and SotN before I played it. When I finally did I was like… really? This is what everyone is losing their minds over? Same thing happened with Undertale.
Last edited:
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Probably first Metroidvania or RPG they ever played so it leaves a strong impression. Kind of similar to when I fool around and go "well Zelda 2 and Simon's Quest did it first".
EruditeHobo
Member
You don't have an argument that it's done for no good reason, many people have listed the reason. You don't have to agree or anything, but to claim it's not there and talk about it in some kind of concrete way when by your own admission these are subjective interpretations seems very silly. If your posts only said "I personally think it's bad, and here's why..." I doubt you'd get all that much pushback.
Lots of people felt Elden Ring was too hard. That doesn't mean because some people agree that From's difficulty decision is "bad" game design, right?
Agreed. Incredible game, groundbreaking I'm sure, but has it's issues. Makes my top 3, for sure, but definitely not number 1.
Last edited:
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
EruditeHobo
Member
IMO this is understandable even if I don't necessarily fully agree. I personally prefer HK to SOTN... but those 2 are classics for very good reason.
I missed Super Metroid at the time, as well. I played it first time probably 15 years ago. Still blew me away.
Last edited:
vaibhavpisal
Member
I think I prefer Prince of Persia The Lost Crown over both Ori and Hollow Knight.
Ori is kinda, not in discussion really. Poorly designed, carried by graphics, music, story.
Hollow Knight hasn't clicked for me yet. Not sure where I am when I check the map. This stuff shouldn't be left to chance, if player will figure it out. Just plain retardation instead of adding anything meaningful to the game.
Ori is kinda, not in discussion really. Poorly designed, carried by graphics, music, story.
Hollow Knight hasn't clicked for me yet. Not sure where I am when I check the map. This stuff shouldn't be left to chance, if player will figure it out. Just plain retardation instead of adding anything meaningful to the game.
EruditeHobo
Member
Easily. Zero percent chance there's not value for money for $60 bucks. Assuming you like the first game of course, which I do.
LavitzSlambert
Member
He didn't say he prefers X over Y, he said Super Metroid has nothing on HK
Yes 100% retarded
What does Super Metroid do better than Hollow Knight, in your opinion? Specifics please.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
I know you're Spanish but what part are you not understanding here? I don't give a shit you think it's better.
Someone saying that Super Metroid, basically the genre defining metroidvania, has nothing on HK is a bad look on the already cultic HK community which spawns the overrated push back you see everywhere in the thread. Do you not understand? Or you think statements like Super Metroid having nothing on HK is A-OK? Who can love metroidvania genre and say Super Metroid has nothing on HK? I would need a lobotomy to come up with such a stupid thing to say.
Last edited:
vaibhavpisal
Member
Music, pacing, exploration, tightness of experience.
Real excitement of going to an unreachable part of the map after finding a power up.
Its perfection. Not achieved by any other Metroidvania to same level.
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Lol dude, relax. It's fine to have different opinions. Yes I believe HK is better than Super Metroid, and yes I believe you are being hyperbolic and overly nostalgic for a game, trying to pass the argument of being "genre defining" as if that would shut down the positives of all the games that came out after that one. Yeah Super Metroid was great back then and still is today, but a ton of games have come out ever since that do things better than that one, specially when it comes to the player controls which SOTN was already miles above.
I know you're Spanish but what part are you not understanding here? I don't give a shit you think it's better.
Someone saying that Super Metroid, basically the genre defining metroidvania, has nothing on HK is a bad look on the already cultic HK community which spawns the overrated push back you see everywhere in the thread. Do you not understand? Or you think statements like Super Metroid having nothing on HK is A-OK? Who can love metroidvania genre and say Super Metroid has nothing on HK? I would need a lobotomy to come up with such a stupid thing to say.
I also prefer Aria of Sorrow to Super Metroid. I think I've given enough arguments ITT as to why I think HK is a great game. I'd be glad to read your opinions on Super Metroid beyond "genre defining" and hurling insults at those who don't agree with you.
EruditeHobo
Member
I generally agree with some of what you're saying here but let's please not pretend "cultic" pushback isn't 100% warranted when people, a number of which are evidently uninterested in substantive engagement, come into a Silksong thread after a great, exciting reveal to post yawn gifs and meme about HK being "overrated". Get real.
Last edited:
EruditeHobo
Member
Agreed (apart from exploration...), Super Metroid is clean as fuck. And this doesn't even touch the fact that it's over 30 years old.
Michael_Fassbender_Perfection.gif
Last edited:
John Bilbo
Member
I hope to see the game design of Animal Well moving the genre forward in a way Super Metroid did.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
I'm not the one here making insane claims like Super Metroid has nothing on HK you see, so no, I ain't spending my Saturday afternoon arguing with a lost cause
If I was making the claim that HK has nothing on Super Metroid, then you could has for receipts, but I'm not am I? HK is very much a 9/10 for me, can't wait for Silksong. You have the claim problem to prove. Not me.
Your claim is equivalent as saying Mario has nothing on Astrobot.
Again, I have no problems with peoples preferring HK, I have problems with "has nothing on". How can any lover of metroidvania muster that, I can't.
I'll bring you cons later or tomorrow on why I don't think HK is the best metroidvania, and you know what? I have a feeling you love HK so much as a good Souls like over a good metroidvania more than likely.
neocycle
Member
You didn't play it.
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
neocycle
Member
Don't.
When people love a game you don't have to jump in their face and tell them they are wrong.
Kacho
Gold Member
I've stated several reasons why I think that in this thread. Bad design decisions, bad character feel, generally unspectacular even though it's competent. I'm not worried about pushback. If I did I wouldn't be in this thread.
I also don't need to preface all of my opinions to state said opinions. No need to walk on eggshells for fanboys. I'm just speaking my mind. If you disagree with me personally, that's great. It's all subjective which is obvious.
To your last point, it someone thinks Elden Ring is poorly designed because it's too difficult I wouldn't bat an eye. If someone says Banjo Kazooie has the worst camera ever designed even though I never struggled with it, I don't care. When
Arsic
says Metroid Dread is a 9/10 and Super Metroid is a 6/10 I think he's 100% wrong but I don't need him to justify it to validate my own opinion.
Last edited:
ShadyAcshuns
Member
Tell me you haven't played Ori without telling me you haven't played Ori.
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
This thread has successfully talked me into buying this stupid game Day 1 despite hating half of you for your monumentally retarded Super Metroid takes.
But I still love you guys. Thanks for crushing my wallet further.
But I still love you guys. Thanks for crushing my wallet further.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Bruh, yeah, I couldn't finish them. Both of them.
Though I have very low tolerance for stuff at which it fumbles.
Few years ago I would have powered through.
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Your penis is massive. Lost crown is incredible. Top 3 metroidvanias IMO.
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
I think for me a lot of metroidvanias are one and dones. I don't go back to any of them except SOTN.I've stated several reasons why I think that in this thread. Bad design decisions, bad character feel, generally unspectacular even though it's competent. I'm not worried about pushback. If I did I wouldn't be in this thread.
I also don't need to preface all of my opinions to state said opinions. No need to walk on eggshells for fanboys. I'm just speaking my mind. If you disagree with me personally, that's great. It's all subjective which is obvious.
To your last point, it someone thinks Elden Ring is poorly designed because it's too difficult I wouldn't bat an eye. If someone says Banjo Kazooie has the worst camera ever designed even though I never struggled with it, I don't care. When
Can I see why someone would love super Metroid? Yes, especially if played at launch or when they were younger. I have a lot of reasons why I enjoy dread more, but my favorite Metroid is still prime. Which I replayed just recently on switch and had issues with it I didn't have growing up. The back tracking here is really fucking bad lol.
My list of best vanias is:
Animal Well tied with Symphony of the Night
Prince of Persia Lost Crown
Aria of Sorrow
If we want to count Metroid prime or dead cells/rogue Prince of Persia then my list would be:
Animal well/sotn
Metroid prime
Rogue Prince of Persia/dead cells tied
Hollow knight for sure is a top 10 game but that's really because I've probably only played like 10-14 in the genre lol.
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
Getting off topic here but when the fuck is GAF ever on topic.
I really loved Axiom Verge 2 and I feel like I'm one of possibly a dozen. It's a really quite weird game in some ways but it hit some particular spot that had me glued to the screen. OST is also fantastic and not the usual shit. I wasn't a fan of the first one really so make of rhat what you will. I'd urge anyone into these games to at least try it out, it was on PS+ at one point?
I really loved Axiom Verge 2 and I feel like I'm one of possibly a dozen. It's a really quite weird game in some ways but it hit some particular spot that had me glued to the screen. OST is also fantastic and not the usual shit. I wasn't a fan of the first one really so make of rhat what you will. I'd urge anyone into these games to at least try it out, it was on PS+ at one point?
I so wanted to like this one because I grew up on PoP but that art direction killed the demo for me, felt so bland. I should really try again, I keep seeing it mentioned as great.
Andro Dunos
Neo Member
Let us all celebrate this exciting moment in gaming!
EruditeHobo
Member
It's not really about whether you (or anyone) struggled with a particular design decision... but rather meeting a thing where it is, especially when talking about what's "good" or "bad". When you say a decision that adds something very specific to a game is done "for no reason"... lots of other people seem to understand what they were going for, whether the reasons resonated with you or not they seem to be there? They are a huge factor in contributing a very particular experience, It just didn't work for you.
Which is fine! But the reason for the comparison is that Elden Ring's boss difficulty is done for a very particular reason, and the same is obviously true of Hollow Knight's map/pin/exploration mechanics. You don't have to like it, at all. Someone else brought up BOTW, and that's the same exact thing -- I personally hated the breaking weapons, but it's very clearly done for a reason.
That's all. Everyone is always welcome to their own opinion.
Last edited: