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[LavitzSlambert]

I'm not the one here making insane claims like Super Metroid has nothing on HK you see, so no, I ain't spending my Saturday afternoon arguing with a lost cause

If I was making the claim that HK has nothing on Super Metroid, then you could has for receipts, but I'm not am I? HK is very much a 9/10 for me, can't wait for Silksong. You have the claim problem to prove. Not me.

Your claim is equivalent as saying Mario has nothing on Astrobot.

Again, I have no problems with peoples preferring HK, I have problems with "has nothing on". How can any lover of metroidvania muster that, I can't.

I'll bring you cons later or tomorrow on why I don't think HK is the best metroidvania, and you know what? I have a feeling you love HK so much as a good Souls like over a good metroidvania more than likely.

You are in a Silksong thread getting triggered by another's opinion and name calling, while I am having fun talking some of my favorite games in a genre I love, excited about sequel to a game widely regarded as the best of its kind. Super Metroid set the initial bar for the genre that was subsequently raised by SotN, and Hollow Knight raised it again on top of being more successful (15 million copies sold) than either. Hollow Knight improved on the foundation its predecessors set (and IMO better than Super Metroid in every category), and has influenced all of the great metroidvanias coming after it, including Metroid Dread.

You're welcome to post your criticisms of Hollow Knight (I look forward to discussion it will bring), but I'll ask again that you also post ways you think Super Metroid is better. Maybe you could even state what Silksong could do that would have it eclipse Super Metroid in your eyes.

 

[LavitzSlambert]

Getting off topic here but when the fuck is GAF ever on topic.

I really loved Axiom Verge 2 and I feel like I'm one of possibly a dozen. It's a really quite weird game in some ways but it hit some particular spot that had me glued to the screen. OST is also fantastic and not the usual shit. I wasn't a fan of the first one really so make of rhat what you will. I'd urge anyone into these games to at least try it out, it was on PS+ at one point?

I really liked Axiom Verge 1, but I tried 2 on PS+ and couldn't believe it was made by the same guy. I didn't make it far at all, the beginning of the game was so incredibly weak that I just dropped it altogether, and I usually push through while giving the game the benefit of the doubt. Major downgrade, maybe one day I'll give it another shot but not while I have so many other excellent games to play and classics to replay.

I so wanted to like this one because I grew up on PoP but that art direction killed the demo for me, felt so bland. I should really try again, I keep seeing it mentioned as great.

I was a skeptic, but played it recently and it's a great game - much better than expected. I don't love the art direction either, but it doesn't really matter once you start playing. The movement and platforming is excellent, but I hated the combat and boss fights. The map might be one of the best in all metroidvania history, that map marker screenshot ability needs to be incorporated into more games. I would love for Silksong to include that with the markers, or even as an ability to learn that would make backtracking more forgiving in a game so long.

 

[EruditeHobo]

Video games are uniquely of their time. So the genre-defining games are going to be considered by many to be "better" than iterations on the formula that come out decades later.

Super Metroid I would argue did more with less -- which is weird to say about Team Cherry, but still is apt IMO, as it's more about the state of gaming/technology at the time, as opposed to manpower/resources -- and like the other poster said, it's cleaner, paced incredibly well, there's less fat which serves the experience, and the boss mechanics that HK heavily leans on were basically established in SM (as far as I can tell).

I give HK credit for world-building, platforming, atmosphere, combat... I'm probably forgetting some. So it gets lots of flowers. But SM excels in many categories, and frankly gets massive credit for basically establishing the genre. It's so ahead of its time, and so perfectly built that the overwhelming majority of Metroidvanias I play, even those released very recently, are often very, very reliant on SM in one way or another.

It should be noted that in these discussions, I personally massively weigh the value of the game on the groundbreaking factor. Mario Kart 8 is a very, very good game; it will never be as "great" as games like Super Mario Kart or Mario Kart 64. Mario Galaxy 1 & 2, similarly, are very, very good games. But they are not "greater" than Mario 64. Without those (MK64, M64) setting the bar and basically defining the genre, those great sequels very obviously wouldn't even exist. To me that counts for a lot. It's not necessarily "fair", but there's obviously no way to directly compare them fairly.

Same is true for SM / HK. And I say that loving HK, I consider it one of the best games I've played in the past 20 years.

 

[Kacho]

I started a new playthrough last night. Currently in the crystal area after defeating the fat wizard boss. Gonna try to wrap this up by next weekend so I can have some meaty thoughts to share.

 

[Rivdoric]

Never played the first one yet despite having it in my library.

What made it so special among all the Metroidvania like ? What is setting it apart ? Difficulty ?

 

[Holammer]

Never played the first one yet despite having it in my library.

What made it so special among all the Metroidvania like ? What is setting it apart ? Difficulty ?

It's the whole package. The setting, boss fights, art and music is top notch. The difficultly is high and you can't simply faceroll the enemies.
If you enjoy mastering a souls-like, this is similar.