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[saintjules]

Game reviews today can really only serve a few very specific cases. Games that already have a high profile, but are expected to kinda suck by the internet consensus. If that doesn't describe the game you are working on, idk how much reviews are going to help. They can only hurt.

I agree. And I think personally you can't really rely on them all the time. You have to go with your gut.

You have to say to yourself:

Is this is something I envision playing?

Have I played something like this before?

Does the game look good to me?

Am I enticed by the story?

Anyone playing games ping enough should know what to expect just by looking at a game.

When you start reading and/or watching other reviews you are getting multiple opinions from various places. It's one thing if a majority of them come to a consensus and say x game isn't good. Then maybe think twice about the game if you are on the fence. Otherwise, don't pay much attention. A review should only be about a fraction of the 100% in your decision to buying a game. Other factors should be considered.

And on top of all that, reviewers getting paid to write reviews doesn't really serve any true unbiased thoughts about a game you're looking forward to. It's why I hate Metacritic with a passion, especially those shit user critics which is pointless. People look at numbers instead of feeling the game for themselves. Why does a game getting a 76 make you immediately irked by it? I'd never listen to any of that.

 

[Holammer]

I heard it's 120fps on Switch 2

Yes it does, the game has a time-based engine, so it can run at any (theoretically anyway) framerate you throw at it. So I would expect 120/144/165 fps support on Xbox & Playstation.

This is why Switch Hollow Knight emulated uncapped runs at a stable 480 fps. Needless to say, it runs buuuuuuuttery smooth and the Switch version supports Haptics so the feedback is much better than other versions. Not a bad way to enjoy the game, but I play the Steam version for achivements.

 

[Stafford]

Because the game is great and a few jaded contrarians aren't going to change that.

Oh to each their own, absolutely and I did have a good time but I never got the huge hype and praise. I enjoyed other Metroidvania games much more.

 

[Nintendo's Witch]

Good, now people can finally STFU about it

 

[March Climber]

Guess I'll finally try out the first Hollow Knight since it's in my backlog.

I'm guessing this game must have something big in it for them to treat it's release with such mystery and hype.

 

[SpiceRacz]

I started over the first one on Steam Deck today and 30% of people haven't even beat the first boss. Has like a 68% completion.

The 30% are the ones hating on the game.

 

[rkofan87]

Why ‘Silksong’ Took Seven Years to Make

The highly anticipated indie game has been in production for so long that it’s become an internet meme

www.bloomberg.com

 

[CashPrizes]

Having to use an item to see yourself on the map? Bouncing off enemies when you attack them and having to use an item to eliminate that? Bad pacing? Not always clear on where to go because some exit points are easy to miss?

Get good.

None of those are problems. The Icon for the player on the map is pretty useful early on, but once you have a ton of time in the game you don't even need it anymore because you are so familiar with the map, and it feels empowering to not have to have that charm equipped.

You can equip charms to lower bounce or you can overcome the bounce. I myself had no problem with the bounce, there were a few bosses where you needed to strike as fast as possible on a weak point within a timed window, so in that case that is a pretty crucial charm. I myself really favored the longer blade charm so much that I was always willing to have that charm equipped even when it wasn't optimal. Having to make hard choices to create a build is a good thing not a bad thing.

You should be hugging and slashing every wall anyways, I don't even know what you mean by easy to miss exit points.

 

[Dutchy]

Played through the first game for the first time about two years ago. Completely had me by the balls for about 10 consecutive days until I reached 110%~ completion. Became one of my all time favorite games.

That being said, what an anticlimactic trailer. Has the same kind of vibe you'd see for a trailer of a game releasing for the 4th time on a new platform. Did not get me hyped at all. Looks like great fun though.

 

[Kacho]

Get good.

One can't get good at enjoying bad design decisions

 

[Major Insano]

Really looking forward to this. It may not live up to the hype, but it's going to be another banger for what $25-30?

Loved HK, took me a few hours for it to click, but then I played it until 108-110% completion.

The main thing I didn't like about it was the contact damage. I hate that in games.
Also the platforming was tedious af. Used to rage every time I would fall off/miss a ledge and then fall through the entrance to the cave below...

 

[TintoConCasera]

One can't get good at enjoying bad design decisions

Not every game has to appeal to everyone, and a game not appealing to you doesn't mean it's poorly designed. I enjoyed the slow pace and the game allowing me to get lost instead of handolding me all the way through.

 

[Kacho]

Not every game has to appeal to everyone, and a game not appealing to you doesn't mean it's poorly designed. I enjoyed the slow pace and the game allowing me to get lost instead of handolding me all the way through.

Never claimed games needed to appeal everyone. I'm not the only one complaining about poor design decisions btw. It's a common criticism whether you agree with it or not. You're not the arbiter of good game design.

Not sure why the fanboys keep resulting to "it's just too hard for you" or "you just need your hand held" every time they encounter differing opinions. If the game was as good as people say I wouldn't have bounced off it three different times. I hope the sequel addresses a lot of the problems I had. If not, we're back to square one.

 

[HYDE]

Is it going to be 'the 3 who beat the 33' or is that too goty baity

Legen "wait for it" dary!

 

[TintoConCasera]

Never claimed games needed to appeal everyone. I'm not the only one complaining about poor design decisions btw. It's a common criticism whether you agree with it or not. You're not the arbiter of good game design.

You are saying the lack of a map marker is bad design. I think the game has enough landmarks to let you navigate it without one. How's that bad design? Are games like Thief or Dark Souls also poorly designed?

Nothing wrong with not liking the damn game, but don't shield yourself behind the argument of "there's more poeple that say the same thing that I'm saying", because the game has a 97% postive rating on Steam and if we went by that metric then we could assume that you are just wrong.

If the game was as good as people say I wouldn't have bounced off it three different times

It's just not for you. Again, not all games have to appeal to everyone, and that doesn't make them bad games at all. In fact I'd say games are better when the try to appeal to a very specific niche, but that's another matter.

 

[Kacho]

You are saying the lack of a map marker is bad design.

I am. Because it's a design decision that adds unnecessary friction for no good reason. It doesn't improve the game, it's just annoying.

Nothing wrong with not liking the damn game, but don't shield yourself behind the argument of "there's more poeple that say the same thing that I'm saying", because the game has a 97% postive rating on Steam and if we went by that metric then we could assume that you are just wrong.

I'm not shielding myself from anything. There are people in this thread complaining about the same things I am and a quick Google will bring back plenty of results echoing the same thing. A 97% Steam rating has no influence on my opinion about the game. I didn't like The Witcher 3 either and every time I criticize that game the fanbase is similarly obnoxious about it.

It's just not for you. Again, not all games have to appeal to everyone, and that doesn't make them bad games at all. In fact I'd say games are better when the try to appeal to a very specific niche, but that's another matter.

Correct. I don't like Team Cherry's idea of a Metroidvania. There are far better Metroidvania's out there. I'm still going to give the sequel a chance.

 

[TintoConCasera]

I am. Because it's a design decision that adds unnecessary friction for no good reason. It doesn't improve the game, it's just annoying.

Let's just agree to disagree lol.

I'm not shielding myself from anything. There are people in this thread complaining about the same things I am and a quick Google will bring back plenty of results echoing the same thing. A 97% Steam rating has no influence on my opinion about the game. I didn't like The Witcher 3 either and every time I criticize that game the fanbase is similarly obnoxious about it.

I did't mean that as in it has to influence your opinion. it's fine to like different things. All I'm saying is don't assume something is bad just because you don't like it. I didn't like Expedition 33 and yet you don't see me in the OP shitting in the game. I just moved on, which is something people that don't like this game or the prequel aren't able to do.

Correct. I don't like Team Cherry's idea of a Metroidvania. There are far better Metroidvania's out there. I'm still going to give the sequel a chance.

cool on you for giving it a chance! Hope you like it better than the first game.

 

[Shifty1897]

I redownloaded Hollow Knight yesterday after the release date announcement. I played it until 1 AM this morning. It is not just good, it is not just okay, it really is an expertly designed game and is one of the greatest Metroidvanias.

I don't know why I didn't appreciate it the first time. Sometimes I do this, it took me 3 tries and 10 years to get into Xenoblade and now it's one of my favorite series of all time. Hollow Knight is freaking awesome, I'm sorry I said it was good but not great. I am an asshole.

As penance I've changed my Slack profile at work to a picture of the Knight.

 

[Kacho]

Let's just agree to disagree lol.

Probably for the best. Neither of us will budge. I'll add that I'm not shitting on the game for fun, I'm just set in my ways about what a 'good' Metroidvania is. Totally subjective.

HK is a game I truly want to enjoy because I love the genre. I keep revisiting it (usually after an internet argument) with the hope it will finally click with me. Just hasn't happened yet.

 

[Jigsaah]

Too many good games coming out between end of August, Sept and October. POE2 0.3, Ashes of Creation 3rd alpha (TBD if it's good), Silksong, Battlefield 6, Ninja Gaiden 4 and here I am scrambling to finish backlogs. What would we have to do to get 25-26 hours in a day?

 

[ssringo]

My issue with the map marker is that your character is literally updating the map themselves but can't tell where they are without the charm. Its just goofy. I would've preferred something like you obviously have no clue when there's no map and even after getting a map you don't know until you've been to the areas and actually updated it. Or maybe once you've discovered and mapped out enough of the zone your character is "familiar enough" with the area that they just know where they are.

It wasn't a big deal nor is it hard to look at the map and figure it out yourself; it's just not how I would've liked it done.

Actually doing one last playthrough to re-familiarize myself with everything before Silksong. And looking at Steam player counts I'm not the only one

 

[neocycle]

I'm not the only one complaining about poor design decisions btw.

You are part of a tiny minority. How delicious it must have felt to you when you saw that thread the other day. Finally some other people who don't like it either.

Reality check:

 

[Kacho]

You are part of a tiny minority. How delicious it must have felt to you when you saw that thread the other day. Finally some other people who don't like it either.

Reality check:

Already said as much earlier in the thread.

Hey, I'm clearly in the minority with Hollow Knight but I stand firm in my opinion.

You aren't exposing anyone here. But it's amusing how sensitive people like you are when you encounter dissenting opinions.

Tinto and I already put a bow on our conversation btw. No need to go through it again.

 

[John Bilbo]

I thought the idea with no map marker was to pay more attention to the surroundings and that way immerse yourself more into the world.

I actually liked it. But then again I also liked the breaking weapons in Breath of the Wild. I also much more preferred to play BOTW without a mini map.

I hate when exploration based games are designed around looking at the mini map or following the yellow paint or the UI makes a clear path for the player to follow.

Depending on the situation inconvenience can create a better experience or game.

 

[Kacho]

But then again I also liked the breaking weapons in Breath of the Wild.

That's actually a great comparison. I hated that decision and it negatively affected my opinion on the game, while others (most) were ok with it.

 

[neocycle]

when you encounter dissenting opinions

There is whole thread where half of neogaf circlejerked how bad the game is.
Silksong release date thread? Let's jump in and remind everyone again!

 

[John Bilbo]

That's actually a great comparison. I hated that decision and it negatively affected my opinion on the game, while others (most) were ok with it.

For me Breath of the Wild and the breaking weapons reminded me of the adventures I took with my friends in my childhood.

We used go out into nature to sword fight with sticks or this certain sturdy flower stem that grows here in the late summer.

Of course the sticks and stems broke quite easily while we fought against each other with them. We had to then take a break and get a new stick or stem.

BOTW has this childlike adventure feel to it in its gameplay and exploration. For me the way the game encourages you to collect and try new weapons even when you get the Master Sword really fits the joyous nature of the game.

 

[Uncle Moe]

Mid game. Ori better.

Many people are saying!

 

[BigBeauford]

That's actually a great comparison. I hated that decision and it negatively affected my opinion on the game, while others (most) were ok with it.

No, it was a stupid decision. You're breaking a big club to endlessly pick up more identical big clubs. It adds absolutely nothing to the game.

 

[Madserb2023]

I hope they update the Switch version of Hollow Knight to 120fps.

 

[touchfuzzy]

No, it was a stupid decision. You're breaking a big club to endlessly pick up more identical big clubs. It adds absolutely nothing to the game.

They should give you infinite ammo in every FPS game too, why am I ever having to find ammo or pick up a new gun. So stupid.

 

[darrylgorn]

Why the hell does everything have to come out in September?

 

[BigBeauford]

They should give you infinite ammo in every FPS game too, why am I ever having to find ammo or pick up a new gun. So stupid.

If we are being honest, how many games actually make ammo scarcity an integral part of the game. Doom Eternal maybe? And guess what, that game was annoying as fuck to play (for many people) too.

 

[touchfuzzy]

If we are being honest, how many games actually make ammo scarcity an integral part of the game. Doom Eternal maybe? And guess what, that game was annoying as fuck to play (for many people) too.

It's a pretty apt comparison though, I assume most people who complain about it probably played less than 10 hours of BOTW, it really only affects your playthrough at the start when you're fighting with tree branches and shitty clubs and have a small inventory. Once you've played for a while and have a collection of 15+ good weapons with good durability ready to go at all times it doesn't really matter. It's immaterial in TOTK pretty much from the start thanks to Fusion buffing the weapons up.

 

[bender]

If we are being honest, how many games actually make ammo scarcity an integral part of the game. Doom Eternal maybe? And guess what, that game was annoying as fuck to play (for many people) too.

Deus Ex: Human Revolution

 

[rm082e]

What I've learned from Silksong is if fanboys just spam every chat on every game announcement show for years on end, we have a shot at getting Bloodborne II.

 

[BigBeauford]

It's a pretty apt comparison though, I assume most people who complain about it probably played less than 10 hours of BOTW, it really only affects your playthrough at the start when you're fighting with tree branches and shitty clubs and have a small inventory. Once you've played for a while and have a collection of 15+ good weapons with good durability ready to go at all times it doesn't really matter. It's immaterial in TOTK pretty much from the start thanks to Fusion buffing the weapons up.

I'm not disagreeing it's an apt comparison, it's a good comparison. I'm simply saying it doesn't add positively to the experience.

Take for example games like Fallout. It too has weapon durability, but the fact that you have perks and skills that allow you to repair weapons and armor mean durability is an integral part of the game.

There is a tension and opportunity cost to make yourself proficient at up keeping your gear, because it makes you less proficient at something else. BotW has durability for the sake of durability. The game wouldn't be lesser for not having it.

 

[DragoonKain]

No announcement of a physical version yet? I really don't want to double dip so I hope we get an announcement either way before Sept 4th

 

[The Cockatrice]

Guess I'll finally try out the first Hollow Knight since it's in my backlog.

I'm guessing this game must have something big in it for them to treat it's release with such mystery and hype.

u might get burned out since they are pretty much the same and the 1st takes over 35h to complete.

 

[March Climber]

u might get burned out since they are pretty much the same and the 1st takes over 35h to complete.

Over 35???

I thought this was just a metroidvania...

 

[bender]

Guess I'll finally try out the first Hollow Knight since it's in my backlog.

I'm guessing this game must have something big in it for them to treat it's release with such mystery and hype.

It's beloved for a reason and that's also why you see the backlash from a vocal minority, but I think even the harshest critics of the game would still consider it a good time.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Over 35???

I thought this was just a metroidvania...

if you do the optional areas, which u will unknowingly in your 1st playthorugh+backtracking for upgrades and stuff, yes, its a long game. You could rush it and do it in 20h, but not as your 1st playthrough. You will get lost, and you will enjoy it, it's huge and full of secrets. Amazing atmsophere and level design hence why its so loved. If the second is similar which by the looks of it, is, then, yeah, you could be looking at 70h of bug smashing if you play one after the other.

Have fun!

 

[touchfuzzy]

I'm not disagreeing it's an apt comparison, it's a good comparison. I'm simply saying it doesn't add positively to the experience.

Take for example games like Fallout. It too has weapon durability, but the fact that you have perks and skills that allow you to repair weapons and armor mean durability is an integral part of the game.

There is a tension and opportunity cost to make yourself proficient at up keeping your gear, because it makes you less proficient at something else. BotW has durability for the sake of durability. The game wouldn't be lesser for not having it.

I don't agree, the durability forces you in to trying new things and making decisions about when and where to use particular weapons. If there's no durability, the choice is always simple: your most powerful weapon, all the time, and all others are pointless. With durability you need to consider if a particular enemy or group is worth engaging with a particular weapon, and nothing ever becomes totally useless (except maybe a tree branch...). You can also run in to situations where you've run out of your main stand-bys and now have to try things you haven't tried before. I think it's a very different and less engaging game combat-wise if it's just "Pick best sword and go", and the designers know it too which is why even the master sword has a 'durability' of sorts.

 

[LavitzSlambert]

Over 35???

I thought this was just a metroidvania...

Not just a metroidvania, the metroidvania bar.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Not just a metroidvania, the metroidvania bar.

That would still be Symphony of the Night unless you are looking for the lowest bar for being a metroidvania with decent production quality.

 

[HYDE]

I redownloaded Hollow Knight yesterday after the release date announcement. I played it until 1 AM this morning. It is not just good, it is not just okay, it really is an expertly designed game and is one of the greatest Metroidvanias.

I don't know why I didn't appreciate it the first time. Sometimes I do this, it took me 3 tries and 10 years to get into Xenoblade and now it's one of my favorite series of all time. Hollow Knight is freaking awesome, I'm sorry I said it was good but not great. I am an asshole.

As penance I've changed my Slack profile at work to a picture of the Knight.

Oneofus.gif

 

[MacReady13]

Not just a metroidvania, the metroidvania bar.

Oh please. Super Metroid and Symphony of the Night shit all over Hollow Knight.

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

I am. Because it's a design decision that adds unnecessary friction for no good reason. It doesn't improve the game, it's just annoying.


I'm not shielding myself from anything. There are people in this thread complaining about the same things I am and a quick Google will bring back plenty of results echoing the same thing. A 97% Steam rating has no influence on my opinion about the game. I didn't like The Witcher 3 either and every time I criticize that game the fanbase is similarly obnoxious about it.


Correct. I don't like Team Cherry's idea of a Metroidvania. There are far better Metroidvania's out there. I'm still going to give the sequel a chance.

That's cos The Witcher 3 sucks.

 

[Kacho]

Can't lie. This thread is making me want to fire up HK tonight. The cycle repeats itself.

 

[Buggy Loop]

You are part of a tiny minority. How delicious it must have felt to you when you saw that thread the other day. Finally some other people who don't like it either.

Reality check: