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[TAJ]

I live in the new most obese country in the world. You won't convince me that the price of veggies is a factor. Water is not more expensive than Coke, yet Mexico gulps Coke like no other country in the world, including the US. It's just bad habits becoming more and more common, and not unbeatable genetic obesity becoming more common.

You're not even close to being the most obese country. You're just the most obese country that anyone has heard of.

 

[Dude Abides]

Her body would still look incredible if she were lifting weights. She can't turn off being in shape.

But why as she wearing booty shorts and a sports bra? You have to be really gullible to believe that she didn't want to show off. Her whole website is a "look at me" exercise.

 

[Opiate]

Well, (almost) everybody has their insecurities. Some people are perfectly okay with their deficiencies, and that's a good thing for self-confidence. However, many aren't comfortable with every flaw they have, and it's not altogether a complete mystery as to why people aren't just willing to accept "I suck" as the reason for why they aren't good at something when it obviously bothers them that they're not where they want to be.

Couple that with the fact that society as a whole is getting more obese, and there is some room to consider other factors outside of "Fattie over there is fat because they are dumb and/or lazy." Unless of course you prefer misanthropic views such as "society is getting dumber and/or lazier."

I just asked this question of another poster, but it's an important concept so I thought I'd condense the idea to reinforce your point.

If the explanation for the increase in obesity is that people are just lazier these days than our grandparents were, then presumably that laziness would present itself in a variety of ways. We would expect people to perhaps be stupider and certainly less educated; we'd expect them to work fewer hours or be less productive.

The problem is that none of those appear to be true. This outbreak of laziness seems to be entirely localized around obesity, which doesn't seem very plausible to me. I think a more rational explanation is that environment stimuli and epigenetic factors are significantly influencing people's behaviors in this specific arena; that is something which can be more easily localized.

 

[Petrie]

In other words, if this is just a sudden, independent choice by a lot of people to be lazy, why is this laziness only affecting our eating habits and not any other objective category of work ethic?

Because working hard in those ways allows people to be especially lazy in others, and we seem to value a work ethic when it comes to career/school much more than a dedication to ones health and fitness.

 

[RM8]

But why are those habits becoming more and more common? Did people just decide all of a sudden en masse to be lazy fat asses? Why isn't this epidemic of laziness affecting our willingness to work (work hours have actually remained stable for decades)? Why hasn't it affected our economic productivity (productivity has actually increase in real terms over the same period)? If we're just all getting lazier, why aren't people becoming stupider (I.Q. has actually increased notably over the last few decades) or becoming noticeably less educated (college degrees are approximately as common now as they were in the 1980s)?

In other words, if this is just a sudden, independent choice by a lot of people to be lazy, why is this laziness only affecting our eating habits and not any other objective category of work ethic?

I never said at some point Mexico decided to be lazy. I didn't even mention activity, just diet, and I think it's cultural. Coke is basically ingrained in Mexican culture now, you can go to the most rural, traditional area in Mexico and people will be drinking Coke along with traditional Mexican food, regardless of income. Culture changes over time, and diet is part of our culture.

 

[Opiate]

Because working hard in those ways allows people to be especially lazy in others

That seems plausible. If your explanation is correct, then surely we can see why different people might have different shortcomings: I have two overweight ex-girlfriends, for example, who were both very academically and professionally accomplished.

We all have to pick our battles, as very few of us are going to be so incredibly amazing that we will simultaneously excel professionally, academically, ethically, and physically. Perhaps you excel physically; I don't know. If so, that choice likely comes at the cost of working harder in other arenas, and my ex girlfriends (as real world examples) used their resources to excel farther than you did scholastically and professionally. I don't blame you for not being able to do everything excellently all at once, nor do I blame them.

 

[Opiate]

I never said at some point Mexico decided to be lazy. I didn't even mention activity, just diet, and I think it's cultural. Coke is basically ingrained in Mexican culture now, you can go to the most rural, traditional area in Mexico and people will be drinking Coke along with traditional Mexican food, regardless of income. Culture changes over time, and diet is part of our culture.

Okay, that's one possible factor. And you agree it's not a decision people are consciously making? You are arguing that culture phenomena are aggressively affecting people's behavior?

 

[Haly]

Her body would still look incredible if she were lifting weights. She can't turn off being in shape.

Emphasis can be still be shifted to the act of exercising.

And I'm going to guess you work out regularly so, obviously, seeing a woman exercising is going to hold a different appeal for you than for others.

I notice a lot of the "pic is fine, people need to stop being butthurt" camp are people who exercise themselves. And that's great, honestly, but what this looks like to me is that her message really works for people who already exercise. When making this image, she adopted the mindset of someone who already exercises, and not the mindset of someone who's averse to exercise. If her actual intent was to reach the latter audience, she should've went with a less confrontational message because the general populace clearly doesn't respond well to shaming or else we wouldn't be in this obesity situation in the first place.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I never said at some point Mexico decided to be lazy. I didn't even mention activity, just diet, and I think it's cultural. Coke is basically ingrained in Mexican culture now, you can go to the most rural, traditional area in Mexico and people will be drinking Coke along with traditional Mexican food, regardless of income. Culture changes over time, and diet is part of our culture.

So you keep using this Mexico example about how a culture has changed people, but you also keep posting about individual responsibility. Come on.

 

[RM8]

Okay, that's one possible factor. And you agree it's not a decision people are consciously making?

Eh. People here know Coke is bad, and they still drink it and avoid sugar-less versions like Zero or Light. I have a relative who got diabetes because of her unusually high Coke consumption (even by Mexican standards, lol) in the words of her doctor. She still drinks Coke. A widespread addiction, maybe, but there's responsibility in you to overcome such a harmful habit. Not drinking Coke doesn't equal being successful in fitness, really.

 

[Opiate]

Eh. People here know Coke is bad, and they still drink it and avoid sugar-less versions like Zero or Light.

So which is it? Is the problem that people are actively making bad/lazy decisions, or is it that culture is aggressively affecting consumer behavior?

I'm asking for you to provide a specific, dominant causal mechanism for the wide scale change in behavior we see which is localized almost entirely around eating habits without affecting our work ethic in any other domain. What specifically changed over the last 30 years -- did people get lazier (personal responsibility) or did the culture become more adverse to proper nutrition?

 

[Petrie]

So which is it? Is the problem that people are actively making bad/lazy decisions, or is it that culture is aggressively affecting consumer behavior?

I'm asking for you to provide a specific, dominant causal mechanism for the wide scale change in behavior we see which is localized almost entirely around eating habits without affecting our work ethic in any other domain. What specifically changed over the last 30 years -- did people get lazier (personal responsibility) or did the culture become more adverse to proper nutrition?

The culture became one where we tell everyone how amazing they are and how they should do whatever they want because they are special little snowflakes.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

The culture became one where we tell everyone how amazing they are and how they should do whatever they want because they are special little snowflakes.

Which then gave people the power to be total assholes about other people's bodies, apparently.

 

[FallingEdge]

Which then gave people the power to be total assholes about other people's bodies, apparently.

are we talking about this thread or the original pic?

 

[Scrabble]

So which is it? Is the problem that people are actively making bad/lazy decisions, or is it that culture is aggressively affecting consumer behavior?

I'm asking for you to provide a specific, dominant causal mechanism for the wide scale change in behavior we see which is localized almost entirely around eating habits without affecting our work ethic in any other domain. What specifically changed over the last 30 years -- did people get lazier (personal responsibility) or did the culture become more adverse to proper nutrition?

Why cant it be both? Culture definitely plays a part in affecting and reinforcing bad lifestyle habits, but only you are responsible for making those decisions.

 

[RM8]

Crap food is more widely available than ever before, isn't it? And yes, people make bad decisions all the time, I'm not sure why it has to be related to work. People actively avoid less bad alternatives because personally, they're not willing to sacrifice perceived flavor in exchange of health. Add to this that the Coca Cola brand simply resonates very strongly with Mexico and you have a country that thinks black liquid sugar is the best thing ever.

 

[Haly]

The culture became one where we tell everyone how amazing they are and how they should do whatever they want because they are special little snowflakes.

Are you talking about USA or the world? Because we're not the only ones struggling with obesity, but your perspective is definitely an American one.

 

[Scrabble]

Which then gave people the power to be total assholes about other people's bodies, apparently.

No one's being an asshole about other people's bodies, Your issues and adverse reaction seems to stem more from insecurity than anything else. The mother shouldn't be held responsible for how some will choose to interpret her message.

 

[cdyhybrid]

But why as she wearing booty shorts and a sports bra? You have to be really gullible to believe that she didn't want to show off. Her whole website is a "look at me" exercise.

People wear that to the gym, I don't see what the big deal is.

Of course her website is a look at me exercise, she's using her fitness to sell her product. Do we get mad at Mercedes-Benz when they show some $200,000 car in a commercial?

Emphasis can be still be shifted to the act of exercising.

And I'm going to guess you work out regularly so, obviously, seeing a woman exercising is going to hold a different appeal for you than for others.

I notice a lot of the "pic is fine, people need to stop being butthurt" camp are people who exercise themselves. And that's great, honestly, but what this looks like to me is that her message really works for people who already exercise. When making this image, she adopted the mindset of someone who already exercises, and not the mindset of someone who's averse to exercise. If her actual intent was to reach the latter audience, she should've went with a less confrontational message because the general populace clearly doesn't respond well to shaming or else we wouldn't be in this obesity situation in the first place.

Images like these:

with that caption would get the same kind of flak. Your body is still being shown off when you're lifting.

 

[Zhengi]

I just asked this question of another poster, but it's an important concept so I thought I'd condense the idea to reinforce your point.

If the explanation for the increase in obesity is that people are just lazier these days than our grandparents were, then presumably that laziness would present itself in a variety of ways. We would expect people to perhaps be stupider and certainly less educated; we'd expect them to work fewer hours or be less productive.

The problem is that none of those appear to be true. This outbreak of laziness seems to be entirely localized around obesity, which doesn't seem very plausible to me. I think a more rational explanation is that environment stimuli and epigenetic factors are significantly influencing people's behaviors in this specific arena; that is something which can be more easily localized.

People do appear stupider and less educated, unfortunately. We keep having these world educational rankings among developed countries and we have fallen into the 20s. More and more students are graduating high school without the required skills to succeed in college and they have to take remedial courses just to catch up to others. You can say it's other factors that are causing this, but it really doesn't help your argument if the opposite appears to be happening.

 

[Dude Abides]

People wear that to the gym, I don't see what the big deal is.

It isn't a big deal. But you seem willfully blind to the fact that the message conveyed is "what's your excuse for not looking like this" and her swallowing her transparent walk-back hook, line, and sinker.

Of course her website is a look at me exercise, she's using her fitness to sell her product. Do we get mad at Mercedes-Benz when they show some $200,000 car in a commercial?

We might if at the end some dude stepped out and said "get on my level."

 

[Opiate]

People do appear stupider and less educated, unfortunately.

Luckily, this is incorrect. IQs have risen significantly, and college attainment has marginally increased over time. Workers are more productive and yet work similar hours, on average, compared to the 1980s.

We keep having these world educational rankings among developed countries and we have fallen into the 20s.

This is a relative comparison. In absolute terms, Americans have increased their academic achievements. Using your logic, I could say that Americans haven't grown 2.5-3'' over the last 100 years because Nordic countries have grown 4-5''.

.You can say it's other factors that are causing this, but it really doesn't help your argument if the opposite appears to be happening.

Luckily it doesn't appear to, so it does indeed help my case.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

I notice a lot of the "pic is fine, people need to stop being butthurt" camp are people who exercise themselves. And that's great, honestly, but what this looks like to me is that her message really works for people who already exercise. When making this image, she adopted the mindset of someone who already exercises, and not the mindset of someone who's averse to exercise. If her actual intent was to reach the latter audience, she should've went with a less confrontational message because the general populace clearly doesn't respond well to shaming or else we wouldn't be in this obesity situation in the first place.

I mentioned in earlier in the thread that I thought most people who had an issue with this were probably overweight or at least unhappy/self conscious about their body. It works both ways. Of course, what she says speaks to those who already workout and are fit, but it also feels like those who don't are feeling targeted when it isn't clear that is what she meant. We're all reading an awful lot into this.

 

[cdyhybrid]

It isn't a big deal. You seem willfully blind to the fact that the message conveyed is "what's your excuse for not looking like this."



We might if at the end some dude stepped out and said "get on my level."

Quoting this yet again:

17) I hate images like this. It creates unrealistic expectations for mothers.

Every woman is different and my intention was not to ask, “What’s your Excuse for not looking like me?” My intention was to imply, “What’s your Excuse for not exercising?” However you interpret the message is dependent on your emotional state when you read the caption.

I definitely agree that my results are not normal. At the same time, being ‘fit’ is no longer normal in society. 1/3 of Americans are obese and over half are overweight. So of course it’s not realistic for the ‘average’ person to be fit after pregnancy because usually they are not fit before pregnancy. If you take care of yourself, exercise and eat the correct foods, then my results can be normal for you too! There’s nothing wrong with being fit. It’s good for you, your family and your wallet towards the end of your life.

 

[RM8]

She said her intended message was "what's your excuse for not working out?". Makes sense, her body looks like that because she works out. Also, needs to be repeated, she posted it to people who like her page. It's not her fault people shared it with friends who are not into fitness.

 

[Dude Abides]

Quoting this yet again:

http://www.mariakang.com/2012/10/15/maria-kangs-facs-frequently-asked-comments/

Yes, I realize she's walking back the obvious implication after the controversy. But since I am not incredibly incredibly gullible, I'm not buying what she's selling.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Yes, I realize she's walking back the obvious implication after the controversy. But since I am not incredibly incredibly gullible, I'm not buying what she's selling.

/shrug

Believe whatever you want I guess.

 

[bhytre]

I hope to see more fat shaming in the future.
Get on the treadmill and stop whining.

 

[Mumei]

So which is it? Is the problem that people are actively making bad/lazy decisions, or is it that culture is aggressively affecting consumer behavior?

I'm asking for you to provide a specific, dominant causal mechanism for the wide scale change in behavior we see which is localized almost entirely around eating habits without affecting our work ethic in any other domain. What specifically changed over the last 30 years -- did people get lazier (personal responsibility) or did the culture become more adverse to proper nutrition?

Related to the argument you are making:

Yet the scientists who study the biochemistry of fat and the epidemiologists who track weight trends are not nearly as unanimous as Bloomberg makes out. In fact, many researchers believe that personal gluttony and laziness cannot be the entire explanation for humanity’s global weight gain. Which means, of course, that they think at least some of the official focus on personal conduct is a waste of time and money. As Richard L Atkinson, Emeritus Professor of Medicine and Nutritional Sciences at the University of Wisconsin and editor of the International Journal of Obesity, put it in 2005: ‘The previous belief of many lay people and health professionals that obesity is simply the result of a lack of willpower and an inability to discipline eating habits is no longer defensible.’

Consider, for example, this troublesome fact, reported in 2010 by the biostatistician David B Allison and his co-authors at the University of Alabama in Birmingham: over the past 20 years or more, as the American people were getting fatter, so were America’s marmosets. As were laboratory macaques, chimpanzees, vervet monkeys and mice, as well as domestic dogs, domestic cats, and domestic and feral rats from both rural and urban areas. In fact, the researchers examined records on those eight species and found that average weight for every one had increased. The marmosets gained an average of nine per cent per decade. Lab mice gained about 11 per cent per decade. Chimps, for some reason, are doing especially badly: their average body weight had risen 35 per cent per decade. Allison, who had been hearing about an unexplained rise in the average weight of lab animals, was nonetheless surprised by the consistency across so many species. ‘Virtually in every population of animals we looked at, that met our criteria, there was the same upward trend,’ he told me.

It isn’t hard to imagine that people who are eating more themselves are giving more to their spoiled pets, or leaving sweeter, fattier garbage for street cats and rodents. But such results don’t explain why the weight gain is also occurring in species that human beings don’t pamper, such as animals in labs, whose diets are strictly controlled. In fact, lab animals’ lives are so precisely watched and measured that the researchers can rule out accidental human influence: records show those creatures gained weight over decades without any significant change in their diet or activities. Obviously, if animals are getting heavier along with us, it can’t just be that they’re eating more Snickers bars and driving to work most days. On the contrary, the trend suggests some widely shared cause, beyond the control of individuals, which is contributing to obesity across many species.

 

[Zoe]

Quoting this yet again:

http://www.mariakang.com/2012/10/15/maria-kangs-facs-frequently-asked-comments/

You realize she's putting blame on people here too, right?

I hope she uses her new-found celebrity status to get herself better PR.

 

[radios shipping overview]

I hope to see more fat shaming in the future.
Get on the treadmill and stop whining.

I hope to see more poor-shaming in the future.
Get a job and stop whining.
What are you, lazy?

 

[BeerSnob]

But why as she wearing booty shorts and a sports bra? You have to be really gullible to believe that she didn't want to show off. Her whole website is a "look at me" exercise.

It's to inspire a light cardio work out in males and some females.

 

[cdyhybrid]

I hope to see more poor-shaming in the future.
Get a job and stop whining.
What are you, lazy?

I didn't realize getting a job was as simple as paying $20 a month.

Or going outside and jogging down the street.

You realize she's putting blame on people here too, right?

I hope she uses her new-found celebrity status to get herself better PR.

So? Are the people getting upset not at least partially at fault here? Does every business' Facebook page have to carefully groom its content to make sure it doesn't offend a single person on the internet, despite the fact that it's clearly aimed at a specific audience? It's ridiculous.

 

[Opiate]

I didn't realize getting a job was as simple as paying $20 a month.

Or going outside and jogging down the street.

Many people find it very easy. I find it easy. Some of those same people who find it very easy to move up the corporate ladder find it very hard to lose weight.

You may find some things easy that other people find very challenging. Conversely, things you find challenging may be a snap for someone else.

I don't know what your personal struggles are, but chances are there are some significant things you'll struggle with for the rest of your life that another person would find extremely easy to fix. So we can all stand here in a circle pointing fingers at each other and asking, "how come you can't do this? It's so easy!" or we can agree that everyone has struggles and flaws and we're probably better off working constructively together.

 

[Johnny Cage In The Shower]

From now on: everytime I see a fat person in public, whether it is at the bus stop, train station at a line up (at a cue for you Brit GAF)

I'm going to walk up to them and say: "Hi, I have a very stressful job, I am a single dad with a 8 year old son and just 18 months ago I was fatter than you, what's your excuse?" then walk away.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

Oh I completely agree that people often interpret words incorrectly. The point is just that: it's incorrect.

I know some people believe the word "droll" is loosely synonymous with "boring," for example. That is wrong.




Exactly. It's a completely understandable mistake, but it's a mistake. They're wrong.

I'm not sure what your point is then. Weren't you trying to objectively prove what her intention was based on the meaning of the words? If you're admitting that people often incorrectly use "reason" and "excuse" interchangeably, then you also have to concede that there's a likely chance that this is the case here as well (by her and/or the people outraged at the image)

From now on: everytime I see a fat person in public, whether it is at the bus stop, train station at a line up (at a cue for you Brit GAF)

I'm going to walk up to them and say: "Hi, I have a very stressful job, I am a single dad with a 8 year old son and just 18 months ago I was fatter than you, what's your excuse?" then walk away.

That's not the same at all. That would be like her getting a directory of fat people on Facebook and then privately messaging all of them.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

dp

 

[Petrie]

Which then gave people the power to be total assholes about other people's bodies, apparently.

Nobody but you has been an asshole about anyone's body.

 

[RM8]

From now on: everytime I see a fat person in public, whether it is at the bus stop, train station at a line up (at a cue for you Brit GAF)

I'm going to walk up to them and say: "Hi, I have a very stressful job, I am a single dad with a 8 year old son and just 18 months ago I was fatter than you, what's your excuse?" then walk away.

That's not what this woman did, you're aware of that, right? She posted an ad on her Facebook business profile meant to be seen by people who like her page.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Many people find it very easy. I find it easy. Some of those same people who find it very easy to move up the corporate ladder find it very hard to lose weight.

You may find some things easy that other people find very challenging. Conversely, things you find challenging may be a snap for someone else.

I don't know what your personal struggles are, but chances are there are some significant things you'll struggle with for the rest of your life that another person would find extremely easy to fix. So we can all stand here in a circle pointing fingers at each other and asking, "how come you can't do this? It's so easy!" or we can agree that everyone has struggles and flaws and we're probably better off working constructively together.

Which would you argue is more common:

1) A business lacking the funds or the open positions to hire someone,

or

2) A gym being over capacity and being unable to accept new members OR being unable to jog down the sidewalk in your neighborhood?

Never mind the fact that you have to actually qualify (a nebulous idea itself) to have a chance at a job, which is not a requirement for jogging for 30 minutes.

Not all struggles are equal because the real world barriers involved are not equal.

 

[Zoe]

I'm not sure what your point is then. Weren't you trying to objectively prove what her intention was based on the meaning of the words? If you're admitting that people often incorrectly use "reason" and "excuse" interchangeably, then you also have to concede that there's a likely chance that this is the case here as well (by her and/or the people outraged at the image)

Do you think people who use that meme feel that excuses are legitimate reasons to not do what they're doing?

 

[Opiate]

I'm not sure what your point is then. Weren't you trying to objectively prove what her intention was based on the meaning of the words?

I was trying to prove what her words meant, not necessarily what she intended to imply (although in typical real world scenarios the two are linked).

The question isn't really whether this woman is a bad terrible mean person. The question is whether the words that came out of her mouth are appropriate, kind, and effectively motivational, because that's something we can objectively measure.

 

[Opiate]

Which would you argue is more common:

1) A business lacking the funds or the open positions to hire someone,

or

2) A gym being over capacity and being unable to accept new members OR being unable to jog down the sidewalk in your neighborhood?

Never mind the fact that you have to actually qualify (a nebulous idea itself) to have a chance at a job, which is not a requirement for jogging for 30 minutes.

Not all struggles are equal.

So instead of backing down from the finger pointing, you're simply going to ramp it up another step and say, "well my struggles are more common than yours!"

That strikes me as just a more vociferous form of finger pointing. Oh yeah? Well my problems may be more common, but your problems are more serious than mine! I'd rather be out of shape but educated and successful than be a physically fit idiot!

 

[cdyhybrid]

So instead of backing down from the finger pointing, you're simply going to ramp it up another step and say, "well my struggles are more common than yours!"

That strikes me as just a more vociferous form of finger pointing. Oh yeah? Well my problems may be more common, but your problems are more serious than mine! I'd rather be out of shape but educated and successful than be a physically fit idiot!

That's not at all what I'm doing. I'm saying the getting a job : exercising comparison is faulty. You are at the mercy of other people when it comes to getting a job. You are not when it comes to exercising.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I didn't realize getting a job was as simple as paying $20 a month.

Or going outside and jogging down the street.

I don't necessarily see the validity in engaging in a pissing match in terms of which is more difficult, but I do think you are underselling how easily fitness is attained. It's not like paying $20 a month magically gets me in shape. It's also true that going for a jog down the street isn't going to result in one's pants no longer fitting as soon as they get home.

Now, you may think I'm being silly or disingenuous by spelling that out explicitly when that clarification really isn't necessary. However, I think it is necessary. What you described requires a long-term commitment to actually do stuff, not just realize that activities can be done that aren't cost prohibitive or unavailable. It's often less about "who can afford to go to a gym?" in as much as it's often a time/willpower problem.

Now, back to jiji's point, many people who are doing well for themselves that didn't come from money will often argue that anyone can do what they did. It's the bootstraps argument, and I find his comparison valid. Many people who have climbed to the top of the mountain sometimes forget the adversity they faced during the traversal, focusing instead on a more simple and confidence-inducing narrative of "I set out to do it and I did!"

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

But why as she wearing booty shorts and a sports bra? You have to be really gullible to believe that she didn't want to show off. Her whole website is a "look at me" exercise.

Those are called "gym clothes". People "workout" in them when they go to the "gym".

I don't necessarily see the validity in engaging in a pissing match in terms of which is more difficult, but I do think you are underselling how easily fitness is attained. It's not like paying $20 a month magically gets me in shape. It's also true that going for a jog down the street isn't going to result in one's pants no longer fitting as soon as they get home.

So what? No instant gratification, so screw it?

 

[andycapps]

Just thinking out loud here, I wonder if fat-shaming is a thing in Japan. Thought of that because of the Vice documentary posted the other day and about how they're all very focused on their careers, and seemingly not interested in relationships.

 

[velociraptor]

She's fucking hot and has a killer bod. I will force my wife to workout and stay fit (if I get married).

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

Just thinking out loud here, I wonder if fat-shaming is a thing in Japan. Thought of that because of the Vice documentary posted the other day and about how they're all very focused on their careers, and seemingly not interested in relationships.

I read something not too long ago that fat women as sex workers were a desirable thing since certain types of penetrative sex are illegal but porking fat rolls is not.

 

[Opiate]

That's not at all what I'm doing. I'm saying the getting a job : exercising comparison is faulty. You are at the mercy of other people when it comes to getting a job. You are not when it comes to exercising.

You are absolutely at the mercy of exogenous forces when it comes to exercising. Or do you think everyone just decided to be fat all of a sudden starting in 1980? Clearly non-voluntary influences are at work, even if we can't necessarily agree on what those influences are.