Housemarque (Returnal, Saros) gives a tour of its new premises in downtown Helsinki
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Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
Without being argumentative, it was the explanation I got when I queried the grammar of the phrase years ago.
Here's an article that traces it's use back to the 1950s and various interpretations of what the complete phrase might be considered to be. One thing is for sure, and that's that the intended meaning isn't in doubt when encountered.
Why "I could care less" is not as irrational or ungrammatical as you might think. https://slate.com/human-interest/20...onal-or-ungrammatical-as-you-might-think.html
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Jesus that looks like a lot of needless spending. Back in the day devs did their best work from fucking garages and bedrooms, given all the talk of how wildly out of control and unsustainable game budgets are, and the many tens of thousands of recent job losses, spending millions on new offices made to look and function like expensive hotels is insane.
Baemono
Gold Member
Doesn't really make sense, looks like you say "it's important enough for me to care, cause there are other stuff I could care even less than that", defeating the purpose of saying "I don't give a damn"
archangelmorph
Gold Member
Sexy...
with strong notes of "You fuckers are never leaving the office!!" vibes...
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ecosse_011172
Banned
How much do you think that cost?
Probably max 5-10 million for everything, a drop in the ocean.
ecosse_011172
Banned
Back in the day, we sent kids up chimneys to sweep them.
nowhat
Member
It was founded by some demoscene veterans way back (or rather, Bloodhouse and Terramarque were, then those two companies merged). They started out releasing for the Amiga, but that became pretty obsolete very soon.
lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
5-10 mil is alot of a game like saros. Saros is not a guarantee sales
ecosse_011172
Banned
Few games are guaranteed, but if Returnal can release in the early days of PS5 and sell over a million......
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Hard to attract and retain talent at your garage and bedroom.
Will work for a Stardew Valley but not for a 100 person studio.
nowhat
Member
So just to reiterate on the whole sauna thing, to all you uncivilized non-Finns who seem to be so baffled about it, here's a presser from the company that leases the office (you might notice that the project was completed a year later than planned, but so it goes):
sponda.fi
It was not built from scratch. It was refurbished. And being a building in Finland, I can guarantee that the sauna was already there.
Sponda to develop one of the largest gaming headquarters in the Nordics for Housemarque, part of the PlayStation Studios - Sponda
Sponda Ltd Press release […]
sponda.fi
It was not built from scratch. It was refurbished. And being a building in Finland, I can guarantee that the sauna was already there.
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ecosse_011172
Banned
Non-Finn but sauna fan here.So just to reiterate on the whole sauna thing, to all you uncivilized non-Finns who seem to be so baffled about it, here's a presser from the company that leases the office (you might notice that the project was completed a year later than planned, but so it goes):
Sponda to develop one of the largest gaming headquarters in the Nordics for Housemarque, part of the PlayStation Studios - Sponda
Sponda Ltd Press release […]
It was not build from scratch. It was refurbished. And being a building in Finland, I can guarantee that the sauna was already there.
Although I learned my sauna ropes in Germany where it's mixed and nude, so AFAIK different from Finland.
nowhat
Member
Oh, it's nude of course. The only exception would be some mixed public saunas, but mixed/public/nude ones certainly exist as well.
ecosse_011172
Banned
I had read that in Finland, mixed saunas are usually not nude whereas I know in Germany they always are, hence my mix-up.
Was an eye-opener when I first went to the gym when fish off the boat, quickly becomes normal of course.
nowhat
Member
I guess this depends on the definition of "public". Ones in say gyms or spas are not mixed pretty much consistently, also newer public ones built for more of a tourist attractions. But if it's an older public sauna or located in a more remote area, they may very well be mixed. Also it's not uncommon for older public saunas to share the same stove, despite not being mixed (the stove being in the middle of a wall separating the two sections), so you can annoy the opposite sex by throwing lots of water (or "löyly" as it is known here) on it.
yurinka
Member
Very nice office luxuries and perks. But it would be nice to also see where people actually works.
Other popular Finnish companies are mobile gaming giants like Supercell (Clash of Clans, Clash Royale) or Rovio (Angry Birds).
Back in the time we had a studio there and when some of us visited them to make some meetings afterworks we went with them to the sauna. They even have small fridges in the sauna for the beer.
Yes, Housemarque started 30 years ago as the merge of two previous Finnish dev studios: Bloodhouse and Terramarque, who made games like Stardust, Super Stardust or Elfmania for Commodore Amiga.
Other popular Finnish companies are mobile gaming giants like Supercell (Clash of Clans, Clash Royale) or Rovio (Angry Birds).
Regarding the sauna, it's a cultural thing from Finland. They are everywhere and everybody goes to the sauna. It's pretty common there to have a sauna at home or at work.
Back in the time we had a studio there and when some of us visited them to make some meetings afterworks we went with them to the sauna. They even have small fridges in the sauna for the beer.
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A good office culture does not require multimillion pound chiq 5 star hotel aesthetic and amenities, especially when huge amounts of the industry are being laid off left right and center, just having a stable job is now a privilege. This sort of needless expense makes sense in the boom years, now it's just bloat…. Bloat that actually paints a picture of irresponsible executive spending, and this paints a target on the studios back during a time of cuts and closures. Which actually screams "job insecurity", which isn't a great attractor or retention mechanism.
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Seomel
Member
Its not bad if you spend most of your week there. If it was bleak cubicle in big open floor, that would be even worse. I know theres a lot of saying how theres many workplaces that are like adult daycares basically, but for game devs, to have some nice small cinema room for game testing or movie night, or have communal area with board games etc is not bad.
SomeNorseGuy
Gold Member
As long as they pour all their passion and know-how into Saros they can spend their money on coke and hookers for all I care. 
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
This isn't satire is it?A good office culture does not require multimillion pound chiq 5 star hotel aesthetic and amenities, especially when huge amounts of the industry are being laid off left right and center, just having a stable job is now a privilege. This sort of needless expense makes sense in the boom years, now it's just bloat…. Bloat that actually paints a picture of irresponsible executive spending, and this paints a target on the studios back during a time of cuts and closures. Which actually screams "job insecurity", which isn't a great attractor or retention mechanism.
We've a small 10 person office, it's a nice office, it's open plan, people enjoy working there and there's a good culture and mission. It's nice but not ostentatious, which this most definitely is. We have competitors who did function that way, turned out many of them were funded by NGOs and were wildly non profitable…so a lot went under in the last few months.
If you're making something great people will want to work on it, you don't need to feel like your working in a 5 star hotel, hell, I'd argue that could well attract exactly the wrong type of people.
ecosse_011172
Banned
A good office culture does not require multimillion pound chiq 5 star hotel aesthetic and amenities, especially when huge amounts of the industry are being laid off left right and center, just having a stable job is now a privilege. This sort of needless expense makes sense in the boom years, now it's just bloat…. Bloat that actually paints a picture of irresponsible executive spending, and this paints a target on the studios back during a time of cuts and closures. Which actually screams "job insecurity", which isn't a great attractor or retention mechanism.
semiconscious
Member
So just to reiterate on the whole sauna thing, to all you uncivilized non-Finns who seem to be so baffled about it, here's a presser from the company that leases the office (you might notice that the project was completed a year later than planned, but so it goes):
Sponda to develop one of the largest gaming headquarters in the Nordics for Housemarque, part of the PlayStation Studios - Sponda
Sponda Ltd Press release […]
It was not built from scratch. It was refurbished. And being a building in Finland, I can guarantee that the sauna was already there.
serious question: what's an 'experience lift'? an elevator?...
![[Sigma]](/data/avatars/m/701/701747.jpg?1726376545){kind=avatar}
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
Thank you for all that needed to be said since reply #1.As long as they pour all their passion and know-how into Saros they can spend their money on coke and hookers for all I care.
Please continue to sauna your balls off if a game like Returnal could be the outcome again.
nowhat
Member
Serious answer, I have no idea. It sounds like something that may have been lost in translation, but I can't figure out what it would have been in Finnish.
yurinka
Member
These Housemarque folks started in garages and bedrooms, but over decades they made money and aren't precisely teenagers.
They only spent a tiny portion of the money they made on improving their office to get one similar to the one people of their status have, which will help them work in better conditions (specially in mental health terms) and will help them attract and retain workers.
They also aren't slaves, they are very talented and experienced people, some of the best in the world in what they do, who work super hard and under huge pressure. So they better take care of them.
All the other offices from similar or more successful studios (including mobile gaming ones) in Finland and nearby countries have similar offices.A good office culture does not require multimillion pound chiq 5 star hotel aesthetic and amenities, especially when huge amounts of the industry are being laid off left right and center, just having a stable job is now a privilege. This sort of needless expense makes sense in the boom years, now it's just bloat…. Bloat that actually paints a picture of irresponsible executive spending, and this paints a target on the studios back during a time of cuts and closures. Which actually screams "job insecurity", which isn't a great attractor or retention mechanism.
They had a humble office during 30 years, but now they are a bigger -Sony- team that won many awards and had many great successful games, even now in the AAA area. They need to have stuff like this to appeal new devs and retain the ones they have, plus to reward them for the super hard work they did until now.
And well, for the AAA context the cost of these office improvements is almost nothing.
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StreetsofBeige
Member
And people wonder why so many tech companies go broke despite starting with big pockets full of money. Yet, the mom and pop corner store down the street can somehow survive for 30 years selling lottery tickets, smokes and energy drinks.
Housemarque is small scale compared to giant ones with billions of IPO cash and shitloads of people and office space. But if there's one thing tech companies know how to do well is spend cash. No budget is ever too big in terms of time or cost. And no office is ever too elaborate. They'll give any 5-star hotel a run for its money despite cash burning. Funny thing too is a lot tech companies have mainly just people, office gear and lease costs. They dont really even have all the physical costs like factories, warehouses, fleet trucks and stuff like that which takes up a lot of space and costs. And they surely dont need to get involved with inventory and returns (which most is tossed in the garbage as unsalvagable refunded products).
Yet, give a game studio or techbro company 5 years and there's a decent chance all the money is gone with nothing to show.
Housemarque is small scale compared to giant ones with billions of IPO cash and shitloads of people and office space. But if there's one thing tech companies know how to do well is spend cash. No budget is ever too big in terms of time or cost. And no office is ever too elaborate. They'll give any 5-star hotel a run for its money despite cash burning. Funny thing too is a lot tech companies have mainly just people, office gear and lease costs. They dont really even have all the physical costs like factories, warehouses, fleet trucks and stuff like that which takes up a lot of space and costs. And they surely dont need to get involved with inventory and returns (which most is tossed in the garbage as unsalvagable refunded products).
Yet, give a game studio or techbro company 5 years and there's a decent chance all the money is gone with nothing to show.
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iHaunter
Member
US culture is such fucking trash. To be a slave and work 12 hours a day barely able to afford anything while your boss breathes down your neck. The fact that you've been trained to be proud of that is the saddest part of all.
Avid Reading Horse
Member
I am surprised at just how big mad some are over these dudes renovating a basement.
Melon Husk
Member
Reminds me of the Mojang office tour, very similar design choices.
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ecosse_011172
Banned
A lot of people with big opinions on offices in the tech world and associated costs but zero knowledge or experience.
GymWolf
Member
I would prefer to retain the talent that stay because they believe in the studio\project than the talent that stay for sauna and gym, but that's just me...
Toots
Member
Starbucks in the lobby is the type of corporate hell i would expect from the devilish execs at EA.
The rest of the amenities are killer tho, i wish i had a soccer field at work so i can nutmeg my director when she's starting to get too demanding.
You don't get it, the problem isn't they can or cannot afford it, it is they don't deserve it
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
What talent are you getting to work in your bedroom? Mom's bologna sandwiches can only be so good.
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
Just checking in to see if we've reached the point of the thread yet where the subject at hand is inevitably woke and we somehow come full circle to blaming Housemarque's office for the decline of western civilization.
StreetsofBeige
Member
Going by covid WFH theories, every WFH supporter at the time said people can do as good a job or better working from home. They feel more refreshed and less stressed being at home, and dont have to slog it to work driving and gas.
ecosse_011172
Banned
I'm still WFHing almost every day, it's miles better, depends on your home situation, location and role though.
As you'll see with the credits of every game, huge amounts of development is done remotely, I imagine only the core of development will be done on site.
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
I think you replied to the wrong post, Sir.
On that topic, is WFH a crime now as well? I can't keep up with GAF's latest nonsense. I'm in construction and do three days per week on job sites and two days WFH in my office for project management tasks. It's fantastic to not have a bunch of dumbasses who hate their job interrupt you every half hour because they want to kill time.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I can't find the WFH theory. It's somewhere in the bin with the flat earth theory and the sasquatch theory.
ecosse_011172
Banned
I did indeed, my apologies.
I love WFH too, half the time in the office is listening to other clowns on headsets blabbering in teams meetings while you're trying to hear yours.
GymWolf
Member
Serious workers don't need a sauna or a gym to believe and work in a big project, if you need that your priorities are fucked up.
But maybe it's just me.
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StreetsofBeige
Member
It's too bad their site is shut down, but when Deviation Games still had their home page up it was the biggest party atmosphere ever. I'm not joking when I say this but it'd go head to head with an amusement park.
The home page had as the head banner people playing tug of war. Then you fan down the page, and it's people doing shit like watching a movie in a theatre wearing 3D glasses, bowling, and their ultra rebellious attitude of people walking up an escalator the wrong way. It was like a frat party.
There was ONE ounce of info regarding work.... it had a picture of their office with a desk and PC. And even that was a farce.
But get this, it wasnt even plugged in. Nothing was in the pic. So they either got a stock photo somewhere from the net lying about their office, or it really was their office and zero people were working on stuff. The studio was founded in 2020 and shut down in 2024. And this was the party image their studio promoted to the masses for 4 years, and the kind of employees they want working there.
Considering nothing was ever known about the studio or game, they probably had no more than napkin math.
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