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How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6 Billion Embarrassment

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This what happens when you put politicians in charge, same issue see Hamburg Elbe Philharmonic Hall (Not as expensive as Berlin though, thank god).

At least Hamburg is just wasting it's own money while Berlin received more money than any other states from the Länderfinanzausgleich in just 20 years.

Berlin is like the only capital in the Western World that can't stand on it's own feet. It's embrassing.
 

Irminsul

Member
But honestly news like this don't make me happy, i just feel like it's reassuring to see germans failing at something from time to time :)
Never read up on the Elbphilharmonie (Elbe Philharmonic Hall) or Stuttgart 21 ;)

Will probably be spun by some "foreign involvement, or corruption".

I really can't believe how neocon their media is.
Eh, not really. It's pretty much a neverending (literally, I suppose) joke for everyone.

But it's nice to make totally unfounded assumptions I guess.
 

sono

Gold Member
An airport should be somewhere you can get through quickly, fly out and fly in, in comfort.with the minimum of hastle.

That is all.

People dont want to hang around there unnnecessarily they have lives to get on with


To use it as a showcase of something is just plain misuse of money
 

Dingens

Member
They are at least mentioned in the article. But the shit going down at BER is laughable, really. Might as well have torn it down and tried again.

Haven't heard anything about S21 or "Elbphilharmonie" in a while though.

I wonder... is the BER also one of those PPP projects? (public private partnership)

from what I've read, at least the elbphilharmonies problems are mostly thanks to private investors jumping ship.
 
Well this is what happens when politicians try to cut corners to appease the population. They hire a dozen companies for different areas of the construction site, which then don't communicate with each other. Failed/non-existent project management.

One of the reasons which lead to such fuck-ups is the public mood in Germany: against all large-scale projects. Leading to politicians who do lots of "kleinrechnen".

As a Berliner I have to say that I don't really miss the new airport except for some better international connections maybe. Schönefeld and Tegel are mostly awesome though: everything is fast and small!
 

Apt101

Member
I didnt think it was possible to make US government construction seem extremely competent, but Germany certainly has done it. A 600 million dollar airport turned into a 6 billion dollar and counting airport, and who knows if it will even open? Crazy.

The whole article is worth reading since it does give a good history of how this situation turned into such a clusterfuck.

US government projects are often a mess because they allow themselves to be taken advantage of by the same handful of contractors repeatedly. We'll see if Germany sticks to the same path after this fuck up, or if they learn their lesson - something the US never has.
 

Donos

Member
Wowereit. 'Nuff said

244972

Yeah, because they wanted to build houses on the Tempelhof runway ... that's what the citizens' initiative tried to imply to everyone and succeeded but it's not true. An area of 230 ha would have stayed untouched and only the borders would have been filled with housing (which would have taken pressure of existing quarters, no matter what prices)

BER Airport is a running joke and rightly so but almost every big state has one embarrasing project themselfs in Germany now (Stuttgart 21, Hamburg with their Elbphilharmonie etc.)
 

Maledict

Member
An airport should be somewhere you can get through quickly, fly out and fly in, in comfort.with the minimum of hastle.

That is all.

People dont want to hang around there unnnecessarily they have lives to get on with


To use it as a showcase of something is just plain misuse of money

This is unfortunately wrong. Modern airports survive and rely on the shopping experience - that's been a major change in the business model over the last 15 years. People want to browse, shop and spend in airports - and they do it a lot. All the major UK airports have either build massive shopping areas, or are in the process of doing so, because it brings in a huge amount of money. I'm fairly sure I read somewhere that Gatwick brings in more money from the shopping than the flights now.

The original designers were right to pick up on this trend when the airport was being constructed, but clearly failed in every possible way to implement it.
 
US government projects are often a mess because they allow themselves to be taken advantage of by the same handful of contractors repeatedly. We'll see if Germany sticks to the same path after this fuck up, or if they learn their lesson - something the US never has.

Well, there are many successful infrastructure projects in Germany. It's just that they don't make good headlines.
 
Part of the reason why it failed so hard was one of the main engineers faked his diploma. He was just a technical drawing guy. And had no idea what he was doing. I Think he designed the climate system. And failed big time.
 

Donos

Member
They are redeemed through their satire shows. Really enjoying them.

And well and whatever Enkelschreck was supposed to be.

There really is no reedeming factor for me with this. Everybody i know would pass on the channels if they could. They also use our money for shows like "Wetten das..." or expensive football (soccer) rights...
 

El Topo

Member
Notice how none of these fuckups took place in Bavaria...

Notice how none of these fuckups took place in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern?

There really is no reedeming factor for me with this. Everybody i know would pass on the channels if they could. They also use our money for shows like "Wetten das..." or expensive football (soccer) rights...

"Wetten dass..." was brilliant, if only for celebrities having to go there to promote their stupid crap.
 

Irminsul

Member
There really is no reedeming factor for me with this. Everybody i know would pass on the channels if they could. They also use our money for shows like "Wetten das..." or expensive football (soccer) rights...
Well, then just see it like taxes. You don't have to personally profit from it. That's how a society works.

That doesn't mean of course German public broadcasters couldn't be much better. They're basically nothing in comparison to the BBC, for example. And less influenced by politics. But the general idea of public broadcasters is still good.
 
A 600 million dollar airport turned into a 6 billion dollar and counting airport, and who knows if it will even open? Crazy.

It was never a 600m € airport though. The 600m € were for one terminal but there's much more to build on an airport. The whole airport was caluclated with 2,5 billion €. There's no excuse though why the whole project got so expensive though.
 

Vhalyar

Member
That doesn't mean of course German public broadcasters couldn't be much better. They're basically nothing in comparison to the BBC, for example. And less influenced by politics. But the general idea of public broadcasters is still good.
Agreed, problem is I don't see how this could change :/
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
Shit like this happens when you hire different companies for different tasks, just because they are the cheapest, instead of getting everything done by one single hand.
 

oti

Banned
BER is hilarious.
Elbphilarmonie is hilarious.

And if you still think highly of German punctuality, just try travelling with the Deutsche Bahn. Your life will change forever.


Notice how the only guy in here throwing the rest of Germany under the bus was a Bavarian?

Bavaria was a mistake.
 
There really is no reedeming factor for me with this. Everybody i know would pass on the channels if they could. They also use our money for shows like "Wetten das..." or expensive football (soccer) rights...

Your avatar is so interesting ! Where is it from?
 

CTLance

Member
Well, there are many successful infrastructure projects in Germany. It's just that they don't make good headlines.
There are just as many small-time disasters.

Where I live, they built a tunnel to ferry most of the commuter traffic under a notoriously overburdened part of the city (Munich - yes, time for Bavaria to shine!).

They not only managed to completely disregard the actual flow of traffic (meaning the on/off ramps are backed up to Kingdom come and many vehicles need to get off early and choke the local grid), they conveniently forgot a whole bunch of acceleration/deceleration strips and stuff so slow traffic directly impacts fast traffic. The "pacified" surface streets are one big-ass traffic jam as well - they didn't even account for public transport, so every fucking time a bus stops along the entire length of the (cut-down) two-lane surface main road, the traffic on that side grinds to a halt. Every time two buses encounter each other as well, because the street is too narrow to allow for two of them to drive past each other at full speed. So they slow down and inch past each other. Somebody parking badly, or parking a broad vehicle on the parking lane can cause real anguish there.

But oh joy, we now have walkways that are like ten meters across in an area where there are no shops, and the bicycle lanes are right next to the parking lane instead of literally anywhere else. Said parking lane, coincidentally, was designed too small, so their post-launch solution? Parking vehicles are expected to park with two wheels on the raised (and already kinda small) bicycle lane.

Of course, the project went way past its initial budget and timeframe, a good chunk of the companies involved in the clusterfuck have already gone belly-up, and politicians are involved - so getting plans, money or accountability for anything is an exercise in futility.

Oh, and there's a hideously expensive and hideously hideous "sculpture" (a bunch of rods, really) near one end of the tunnel that now needs to be heated and maintained in winter at great cost because falling icicles could spear people disembarking from tram stops right below/inside of it (don't get me started on that tram!). It's sheer and utter madness.

So yeah. Fuck that noise.
 
Oh, and there's a hideously expensive and hideously hideous "sculpture" (a bunch of rods, really) near one end of the tunnel that now needs to be heated and maintained in winter at great cost because falling icicles could spear people disembarking from tram stops right below/inside of it (don't get me started on that tram!). It's sheer and utter madness.

Now that is art!
 

Purkake4

Banned
It's a complete shitshow and it doesn't help that every time I step a foot into Tegel it feels like I was transported back in time ~20 years.
 
85,000 serious defects. Jesus
I want to see the receipts here. Just where the cut off for 'serious' is depends on the project. Do they mean 'safety critical'? Do they mean 'the system cannot be energised until this is fixed'? Is the cut off at' doesn't work to spec, but fit for purpose'?

Under certain frameworks, inadequate or inaccurate signage or labelling could count as a serious defect. This may stop you from turning on a system, but it's a relatively easy fix. Something like that may even be systematic, so the same kind of defect (say, a missing safety sticker) might occur thousands of times, but only take one guy with a ladder a day or two to close out.
You see it too often, government projects being far more expensive than projected.
It's not just government projects. I've seen private sector projects go awry to the same scales as mentioned in the article, but these are never subject to public backlash. Often, the trouble starts long before they break ground, with decision makers pushing their own agendas at the expense of the project. Be it estimators and planners selling fantasies and lies to boards, be it bid teams at architectural or engineering firms making promises their technical staff cannot meet or be it managers hiding poor progress in order to protect themselves and their own careers, these things seem to fester and rot beneath the surface for long periods before the bubble bursts and it blows up in people's faces.

The thing is that at each of these stages, the people involved each have a great incentive to cheat the system. An estimator or planner stands to gain a lot from telling a high powered decision maker what they want to hear, the bid team gets a lot of credit for landing a big contract for the firm and the project manager gains from looking as though they are successfully getting things done. You know when they stand to lose? It's when they tell the bosses that it cannot be done or that they are failing.

You don't get promotions for not doing things and telling a hard truth can, in some industries, see you soon replaced by someone who's prepared to lie.
 

Dr.Acula

Banned
Still doing better than this Billion Euro airport in Spain that is in the process of being sold off. Spoiler alert, a Chinese interest placed the only bid. 10,000 (ten thousand) Euros.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/costly-spanish-ghost-airport-receives-only-one-bid-at-auction-1437212665

One of Spain’s “ghost airports”—expensive projects that were virtually unused—received just one bid in a bankruptcy auction after costing about €1.1 billion ($1.2 billion) to build. The buyer’s offer: €10,000.

Ciudad Real’s Central airport, about 235 kilometers south of Madrid, became a symbol of the country’s wasteful spending during a construction boom that ended with the financial crisis of 2008, the year the airport opened. The operator of the airport went bankrupt in 2012 after it failed to draw enough traffic.

Chinese group Tzaneen International tabled the single bid in Friday’s auction, Spanish news agency Europa Press said. The receiver had set a minimum price of €28 million. If no better bid is received by September, the sale will go through, the news agency said.
 

CTLance

Member
Now that is art!
I'm still not entirely convinced that the planners did NOT try to kill off as many people as possible in as stealthy a manner as they could think of. It's probably some sick insider joke. "Hahaha, I got them to stick with the old and inefficient crossroads design so traffic on the main road will need to stop regularly, plus we get to preserve even more space for the walkways!" "Oh god! Just think of all the rage-fueled accidents that will cause!" *proceeds to high-five*


I for one love how they planted a hydrant right in the middle of the walkway exactly where it is actually a bit smaller (on a road leading off the main road that they had to rip up and remake in the process of building the tunnel). It's like a big extended middle finger to the local community that has to shuffle past (or sometimes into) it on their way to some public transport stops, or the parents delivering their kids to the local kindergarten.

That road? Right next to the local Ärztehaus, a building dedicated to medical practitioners (and beauty parlours and such stuff). And the walkway is smaller there because they forgot that a multi-story building full of doctors might need short-term parking spaces for their patients. It's not like they were there before, right? Right?!?

Oh, and in the process of redesigning the walkway for the parking spaces that so deviously snuck up on them they also re-introduced the standard raised design of the walkway and demolished one of two ramps that augmented the existing stairs for, oh, I don't know, maybe the sick people in their wheelchairs trying to get to their doctors.

Result: The Ärztehaus has lost many facilities - they mostly closed shop indefinitely, but some chose to relocate to other nearby buildings.

I repeat, we now have a multi story building supposedly for medical experts that many medical experts don't want to use since their patients can't really get to them unless they wait for one of the three supposedly short-time parking spaces to become accessible. And after that they have to walk/drive/hop/crawl the length of the building past one needless constriction if they can't use stairs - that is if they can get out of their cars in the first place because of the raised design that might necessitate outside help for people in a wheelchair.

But hey, the Italian bistro that moved in recently is pretty nice I guess. Plus, it overlooks the hydrant and parking spaces, perfect for people watching.

Awe-inspiring stuff. :D

Oh, and for the record, the hydrant came after the parking space thing. It would have been excusable the other way around. Somewhat. I mean, it's still a fucking hydrant smack in the middle as opposed to on the sides of a public walkway.
 

Chariot

Member
Oh, and there's a hideously expensive and hideously hideous "sculpture" (a bunch of rods, really) near one end of the tunnel that now needs to be heated and maintained in winter at great cost because falling icicles could spear people disembarking from tram stops right below/inside of it (don't get me started on that tram!). It's sheer and utter madness.
Maybe Berlin could turn BER into a action game level.
 

sangreal

Member
This is like a typical major U.S. Construction Project

look up something like bostons big dig if you want to see a real embarassment
 
The Airport has become a Joke for Germans.
It's basically our Version of Half Life 3 (we will never see the Day it's done)

True

I wonder... is the BER also one of those PPP projects? (public private partnership)

from what I've read, at least the elbphilharmonies problems are mostly thanks to private investors jumping ship.

It was intended to be, but as I do not live in or near Berlin I've lost track of who's in charge now.
 
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