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[diffusionx]

"Some jobs" is an understatement

I also work in finance. Use ChatGPT daily.

My team has 10 people today. I believe that in time, AI can trim it down to 3-4.

Now imagine every finance team in the world being reduced by 50%. And that's only in finance.

If everybody in finance is using ChatGPT to get an edge, then nobody is using ChatGPT to get an edge. I think in the future, your team will have 15 people, but getting vastly more done and doing different work than the 10 of you are today. It's getting tougher these days but try to find an old guy who did your job in the 1960s or 1970s, before the computer came out, and learn about what he did and how he did it.
For context: https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/...f-the-jobs-humans-used-to-do/?sh=3b91b6c21bdd

 

[Dacvak]

All I'm saying is universal basic income better become a thing, cause I see this taking over 70%+ of the jobs out there over the next 5-10 years.

Either way, I'm all for it. I welcome our new robotic overlords.

 

[Dacvak]

I'll do you one better. And I've been saying this for the last two years.

Within the next 10-20 years, I think we'll have the ability to algorithmically generate ALL of our consumable content in real-time per user. Meaning, when you watch Netflix, it'll be a show generated just for you, automatically, based on how much time you have to watch something, what you enjoy watching, etc. The same thing will happen for music, gaming, books, and just about every other entertainment industry.

There will be a huge group of people that resist AI-generated content and only consume human-made content, in the same way that many people only buy organic food. But my prediction is that most people will be fine with their auto-generated, perfectly-tailored content created for them in real-time. It'll genuinely be like Wall-E.

Mark my words.

 

[lmimmfn]

Honestly it will be terrible:
1. 99% of Internet info will be AI generated, it will be impossible to determine if you're talking to a hunan or AI. I can see paid subscription forums and the like to keep AI bots out.
2. Kids instead of developing social interaction skills will use AI rather than interacting with real people.
3. It will impact employment hugely, teachers, trandlators, artists/musicians, voice actors, movie actors.

I don't want to seem negative but the Internet was absolutely amazing when it started, then the abuse started via social media. AI will also be abused but will be worse.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Like some of you above, I work in finance too. And I've always worked at giant Fortune 500 kinds of corporations. I dont see AI cutting anyone. Over the years, our finance teams have gotten bigger. Even a junior analyst does more than churn out automated reports, which AI can do. And that's something that's already been done for decades in steps (and pending how sophisticated the company is). I;'ve never known a finance dept person being a drome solely being a mindless paper pusher. There's always human judgement and team interaction that is involved which no AI can replace. Heck, even with all the datasets needed to be imported and uploaded daily, even that shit isn't even accurate a lot of them time where an IT guy has to fix it. So if boring data cant even be trusted, how can anyone trust AI to give answers for questions and issues requiring context and sometimes total 180 answers where the company purposely wants to do the opposite of a normal situation?

Someone is going to trust AI to give answers on bad data, in which a human can eyeball and notice it's wrong to begin with? No thanks. No company is going to trust Skynet to do this, unless they dont give a shit.

Unless you work at some total drone away job, I wouldnt sweat it.

Remember years ago AI trucks were supposed to take over all trucking and deliveries? Ya right. lol

One thing I see happening is that when all the awesome AI video and audio are rock solid to a point of everyone loving it, is that anything related to media like TV ads, politicians churning out tons of voting ads, etc... will be done fast, efficient and different. No more of any us saying..... "Oh fuck, there's that same cereal ad I've seen all year for the 500th time". They'll change and tweak them fast so it's always new, cool, and if there are no human actors involved requiring union wages and such, it'll be tons of media that eventually become 100% AI.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Because of capitalism AI will end up sucking for the larger population.

 

[clarky]

I reject AI if it results in mass unemployment.

On the other hand i welcome it. Hoping for the Star Trek outcome when cash and "work" become irrelevant.

Very long way off that though, if at all. One can dream.

 

[Durien]

I ... cant understand this rationale. Be worried, dude.

Jobs will be created, sure. And you and billions of other people will be rushing to learn the skills necessary for them. Maybe requiring a new graduation, while you are older, and have already spent the majority of your life studying and paying for your intelectual formation that will be as useful to you now as nothing. Fun stuff.


But how do you solve this problem of 8 billion people not looking for work?

UBI? But would it be enough? Would the government have enough money for it to be sustainable? Would people be satisfied by the UBI? Consumption would decline like crazy, how would that reflect on the economy?

Those are complex questions that we should be trying to answer before shit hit the fan, not after



The bold part is just perfect. That's something that I was also thinking about (that would also be awesome for today's society, but would they do it? Yeah, right)

The problem is, I doubt that nations would be united for something like this. One will always try to stay on top of the other.

My girlfriend has just started her IT graduation after droping dentistry college ... I feel so fucking bad for her ...

Trying to keep her motivated as much as I can

I got out of IT after watching team after team get shipped to India to save money. Now that India is beginning to ask for money, IT jobs are getting shipped to Mexico. I wouldn't recommend IT to anyone for a career unless you just want to rack and stack for a business not yet in the cloud.. Ai can't do that...yet.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Honestly it will be terrible:
1. 99% of Internet info will be AI generated, it will be impossible to determine if you're talking to a hunan or AI. I can see paid subscription forums and the like to keep AI bots out.
2. Kids instead of developing social interaction skills will use AI rather than interacting with real people.
3. It will impact employment hugely, teachers, trandlators, artists/musicians, voice actors, movie actors.

I don't want to seem negative but the Internet was absolutely amazing when it started, then the abuse started via social media. AI will also be abused but will be worse.

Ey, who knows, maybe it'll lead people to go back to basics. You know, what the point of all the texting when you could be talking to an AI? People again talking more and texting less. One can dream…

 

[Bojji]

Isn't that just the same argument as I imagine some people said about machinery used in farming and later, automation? More machines means less people needed but the same amount of work is being done. Generally, we work so we can eat. UBI is wierd though - if we have machinery and AI doing all the work, what exactly is the point in money?

Industrial revolution was nowhere close to this level of replacement (affected only some sectors and was much slower) and it created shit to of new jobs (probably not many as before for sure), with Ai it looks like it's going to mostly just replace people. Corporations are going to be super happy... until no one buys their products anymore because no one has money - but maybe consumers won't be needed at some point?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Isn't that just the same argument as I imagine some people said about machinery used in farming and later, automation? More machines means less people needed but the same amount of work is being done. Generally, we work so we can eat. UBI is wierd though - if we have machinery and AI doing all the work, what exactly is the point in money?

Only people who need to fear are ones who do totally replaceable job tasks and dont want to adapt or learn something new to get a new job.

If automation, robotics, computers, self checkout kiosks, and anything using techy bits and bytes over the past 50 years hasnt killed employment nothing will.

Were at low unemployment, automation and tech improvements every year and companies are fully staffed. If tech and AI are such skynet overlords, every company would have almost nobody working there except a CEO, his VP buddies and a couple hot chicks for eye candy. Nothing can be further from truth.

 

[Trilobit]

How are firefighters affected by AI?! I sure don't want to have some wobbly robot trying to carry me out of a burning building.

 

[Durien]

How are firefighters affected by AI?! I sure don't want to have some wobbly robot trying to carry me out of a burning building.

Robot: It will be alright, sir. We'll be do*windows crash chime*

In other news, Trilobit was dropped to his death when a Robofireman crashed midrescue...

 

[-Minsc-]

If everybody in finance is using ChatGPT to get an edge, then nobody is using ChatGPT to get an edge. I think in the future, your team will have 15 people, but getting vastly more done and doing different work than the 10 of you are today. It's getting tougher these days but try to find an old guy who did your job in the 1960s or 1970s, before the computer came out, and learn about what he did and how he did it.
For context: https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/...f-the-jobs-humans-used-to-do/?sh=3b91b6c21bdd

That Forbes article is very interesting. I never even thought before about the (mostly) obsolete job of horse poop picker-uper.

I'll give a quick opinion as someone who came from a farm and it echo's what some above had said. While it's true machines and automation have the amount of work one person can do, there is more work to do today than in the past. Animals still need to be tended to, machinery still breaks and needs fixing, and facilities need to be built and repaired. The problem I see is more work will be thrust upon an increasingly smaller number of people. A combination of economics, people who think they can do it all and people who simply don't want to work will be the cause.

It's not AI (or as I'd rather more accurately call it, advanced computer aid and robotics) people should be worried about, it's ourselves.

 

[hyperbertha]

First of all, there is no ai. There is machine learning. And it's hitting a plateau fast. Gpt4o is barely noticeable in its improvement, despite having a whole year extra. These ai's can't reason, and any 'emergent capabilities' that ms and open ai were hyping about have all been proven to be vaporware in the year since. Next token prediction, ala a glorified ciri isn't threatening most careers. They need further breakthroughs to solve intelligence and reasoning which might never happen. So pipe down.








If actually seriously follow this at all, you'll find that the evidence for these things being dumb as bricks and just a glorified autocorrect that your phone had decades ago is overwhelming.

To this date, despite all the claims of these things being intelligent, there is not a SINGLE PIECE OF EVIDENCE conclusively showing a reasoning example. Even 5 year old level reasoning tasks are consistently done wrong. I think the conclusion here is pretty simple.

 

[Hugare]

First of all, there is no ai. There is machine learning. And it's hitting a plateau fast. Gpt4o is barely noticeable in its improvement, despite having a whole year extra. These ai's can't reason, and any 'emergent capabilities' that ms and open ai were hyping about have all been proven to be vaporware in the year since. Next token prediction, ala a glorified ciri isn't threatening most careers. They need further breakthroughs to solve intelligence and reasoning which might never happen. So pipe down.








If actually seriously follow this at all, you'll find that the evidence for these things being dumb as bricks and just a glorified autocorrect that your phone had decades ago is overwhelming.

To this date, despite all the claims of these things being intelligent, there is not a SINGLE PIECE OF EVIDENCE conclusively showing a reasoning example. Even 5 year old level reasoning tasks are consistently done wrong. I think the conclusion here is pretty simple.

Your post would be convincing if we didnt have videos like these:





Saying that this is a "glorified autocorrect" is either naivity or ignorance.

It doesnt need reason in order to replace jobs. Or emergent capabilities (that they actually have now with GPT4-o, since they can scan the environment and react accordingly).

Also, GPT4-o was a huge jump. Not only in efficiency but also in interactivity.

 

[Lambogenie]

How about we just ask GPT to give us some solutions to that problem!

 

[hyperbertha]

Your post would be convincing if we didnt have videos like these:





Saying that this is a "glorified autocorrect" is either naivity or ignorance.

It doesnt need reason in order to replace jobs. Or emergent capabilities (that they actually have now with GPT4-o, since they can scan the environment and react accordingly).

Also, GPT4-o was a huge jump. Not only in efficiency but also in interactivity.

It is still glorified autocorrect. It still struggles at math. It can curve fit on trained data, but goes wildly out of wack when it goes out of distribution.
What emergent possibilities does it have?

 

[-Minsc-]

To be fair, I struggle with mathematics. I stopped honing that skill in highschool.

 

[hyperbertha]

To be fair, I struggle with mathematics. I stopped honing that skill in highschool.

Did you also ingest all mathematical books, and academic papers before failing?

 

[-Minsc-]

Did you also ingest all mathematical books, and academic papers before failing?

No. If I did ingest all mathematical books and papers I'd probably fail as well. We all need outside input to gain wisdom so it stands to reason and advanced computer program would be the same.

 

[AV]

Future? It's literally happening before our eyes.

As a software dev it's a mixed bag currently, needs more time to train and get better. Sometimes Copilot is amazing at handling grunt work, other times it forgets how to format basic Javascript, or you have to tell it that it's done something wrong and it'll correct itself.

 

[hyperbertha]

No. If I did ingest all mathematical books and papers I'd probably fail as well. We all need outside input to gain wisdom so it stands to reason and advanced computer program would be the same.

There are many people who excel at mathematics without outside input. These ai models meanwhile have perfect memory and learning, yet still make 7th grade mistakes. There is no excuse. There's something wrong.

 

[-Minsc-]

Future? It's literally happening before our eyes.

As a software dev it's a mixed bag currently, needs more time to train and get better. Sometimes Copilot is amazing at handling grunt work, other times it forgets how to format basic Javascript, or you have to tell it that it's done something wrong and it'll correct itself.

The thing about this software while it will makes it won't argue back and defy you when making corrections. That is, unless it's programmed to do so. Such a program wouldn't make the cut because the people there spend enough energy dealing with other people so the last thing they'd want is a machine which acts just like a person.

 

[-Minsc-]

There are many people who excel at mathematics without outside input. These ai models meanwhile have perfect memory and learning, yet still make 7th grade mistakes. There is no excuse. There's something wrong.

These people who excel in mathematics received outside input. This outside input was during their development years. For some reason, either by choice, environment, or biological design they were able to excel.

The important thing to remember is not one person learns solely on their own. We all receive input from others and the environment around us.

 

[hyperbertha]

These people who excel in mathematics received outside input. This outside input was during their development years. For some reason, either by choice, environment, or biological design they were able to excel.

The important thing to remember is not one person learns solely on their own. We all receive input from others and the environment around us.

Chatgpt has recieved expert level input at a quantity humans can only begin to imagine. Yet it makes basic mathematical mistakes. That's proof that it's memorizing, not learning.

 

[Three]

We survived the Industrial Revolution, we'll survive this too. I just don't see mass unemployment coming while a handful of rich people are rolling in money.

Next 5-10 years should be neat. We'll see.

We survived the industrial revolution because we went into jobs that used our thinking analysis and data driven industries. What would really be left after this?

 

[JimmyRustler]

We survived the industrial revolution because we went into jobs that used our thinking analysis and data driven industries. What would really be left after this?

But that's the interesting thing. No one knows as so far. Some choose to see the future grim dark, I choose not to and think we'll figure something out.

 

[Madserb2023]

It's going to be the final nail in the coffin for tge West. We dismantled our manufacturing base resulting in a destruction of the working class and AI will destroy the design/creative/financial industries which will finish of the middle class. Get a machine to design it and a poor sap in Vietnam to build it. In time AI will get good enough where a machine can design, build and sell a product. There will just be just those who own the technology and then the rest of us will be serfs.

 

[diffusionx]

Future? It's literally happening before our eyes.

As a software dev it's a mixed bag currently, needs more time to train and get better. Sometimes Copilot is amazing at handling grunt work, other times it forgets how to format basic Javascript, or you have to tell it that it's done something wrong and it'll correct itself.

Last year I had to write a SQL query for my job that went beyond the basics I knew. I tried to Google it but as we all know, Google is total SHIT these days and totally useless. So I went on ChatGPT, asked how to do it, it gave me the answer. Saved me many hours of searching and trying various things, and I didn't have to annoy a random colleague for help on it. Amazing stuff. But I also remember 20 years ago when I was learning how to program I was able to go on Google and get answers to every question I had in the same way. It's like ChatGPT is now doing the job that Google doesn't anymore.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

I work in tech enterprise sales. No, AI will not take that job.

 

[Madflavor]

I mean what's our longterm plan here? Are we just going to be a society of Plumbers and Dentists, with most people not having sex due to men having AI girlfriends, because it's easier than actually talking to a woman? I have a 2 year old kid, and I have no idea what kind of world he's going to be graduating into 16 years from now. When I was a kid the question was "What do you want to be when you grow up?" Now the question is "What are you gonna do for money?"

 

[AJUMP23]

People actually knowing how to do something without the reliance on tech will become more and more rare.

 

[AV]

Last year I had to write a SQL query for my job that went beyond the basics I knew. I tried to Google it but as we all know, Google is total SHIT these days and totally useless. So I went on ChatGPT, asked how to do it, it gave me the answer. Saved me many hours of searching and trying various things, and I didn't have to annoy a random colleague for help on it. Amazing stuff. But I also remember 20 years ago when I was learning how to program I was able to go on Google and get answers to every question I had in the same way. It's like ChatGPT is now doing the job that Google doesn't anymore.

Yep, for sure. And it won't be any use to anyone that doesn't know any SQL, but I've done the same thing recently, scanned the code myself and thought "yeah, I see what's going on here", stuck it in and it's worked. It's such a lifesaver in that regard.

 

[Trogdor1123]

How are firefighters affected by AI?! I sure don't want to have some wobbly robot trying to carry me out of a burning building.

I actually did my masters capstone on exactly that. We looked at it from drones being able to put out fires. This was a while back but we got to see a prototype that was essentially a drone rain cloud. You attached the hose to it and it flew over the fire and doused it from above. It was more effective than a ladder truck for hitting spots and there was zero risk to humans. I can only imagine where they are at now.

 

[BlackTron]

People actually knowing how to do something without the reliance on tech will become more and more rare.

 

[Trogdor1123]

People actually knowing how to do something without the reliance on tech will become more and more rare.

This is the scariest part to me. We will be unable to function without it. I remember pulling wrenches as a kid to figure out how the part of the car worked. I learned how to do it by myself. Was great. Now, I just YouTube it and can do it but don't understand it as much. It will be worse with ai I think

 

[StreetsofBeige]

People will have to adapt. With all the AI craze going on, it'll probably be like every generation. More people get into tech. So maybe in the future a lot of techies will have AI related coding jobs. Who knows.
As for the rest of people who dont do tech, or have jobs involving tech but the arent the masterminds creating it, then you'll have to adapt.

Long time ago, there shitloads of paper pushers, photocopier dudes and stuff like that. Much of that is gone except you still need people to check/verify mistakes. Out of school in the late 90s one of the first job interviews I had was "mail room dude". Not mailman for the post office, but it was for either Xerox or Ricoh and the job was be in charge of the office mail room doing binders, photocopying crap, I'm assuming being the person who orders supplies etc... I didnt get the job, nor did I even want that anyway so who cares. But since then, every big company I've worked for hasnt had that role as there's less paperwork. And rarely do people make binders of info anymore.

So you got to adapt. Who knows what the person who got the job does now. But like any era in life, some jobs are created, some disappear.

Unemployment rates are rock bottom again. So it shows people still have jobs and robots havent taken over everything. And lets not pretend the only jobs left are crap jobs where CEOs make good coin and everyone else makes min wage.

 

[Trogdor1123]

People will have to adapt. With all the AI craze going on, it'll probably be like every generation. More people get into tech. So maybe in the future a lot of techies will have AI related coding jobs. Who knows.
As for the rest of people who dont do tech, or have jobs involving tech but the arent the masterminds creating it, then you'll have to adapt.

Long time ago, there shitloads of paper pushers, photocopier dudes and stuff like that. Much of that is gone except you still need people to check/verify mistakes. Out of school in the late 90s one of the first job interviews I had was "mail room dude". Not mailman for the post office, but it was for either Xerox or Ricoh and the job was be in charge of the office mail room doing binders, photocopying crap, I'm assuming being the person who orders supplies etc... I didnt get the job, nor did I even want that anyway so who cares. But since then, every big company I've worked for hasnt had that role as there's less paperwork. And rarely do people make binders of info anymore.

So you got to adapt. Who knows what the person who got the job does now. But like any era in life, some jobs are created, some disappear.

Unemployment rates are rock bottom again. So it shows people still have jobs and robots havent taken over everything. And lets not pretend the only jobs left are crap jobs where CEOs make good coin and everyone else makes min wage.

Except through a vast majority of history, that is exactly what has happened.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Except through a vast majority of history, that is exactly what has happened.

Not true at all. The avg wage in the US is about $60,000. And that even includes all the min wage people (or people making close to min wage) dragging down the avg.

Only a small portion of workers work at min wage kinds of jobs like food joints and shopping malls.

Minimum wage in America: How many people are earning $7.25 an hour? | USAFacts

In 2022, 1.02 million hourly workers —1.3% of all hourly workers — earned at or below the federal minimum wage. That’s the lowest number since data collection began in 1979.

usafacts.org

 

[Trogdor1123]

Not true at all. The avg wage in the US is about $60,000. And that even includes all the min wage people (or people making close to min wage) dragging down the avg.

Only a small portion of workers work at min wage kinds of jobs like food joints and shopping malls.

Minimum wage in America: How many people are earning $7.25 an hour? | USAFacts

In 2022, 1.02 million hourly workers —1.3% of all hourly workers — earned at or below the federal minimum wage. That’s the lowest number since data collection began in 1979.

usafacts.org

You are looking at a super small segment of time. Look at the history of people. Tones at the bottom, a tiny amount in the middle and even less at the top. Just because we have a large middle class right doesn't mean it will stay. If anything this is just a blip in history and we are just lucky enough to live in it.

 

[8bitpill]

There will and always has been the need for human connection. This will never go away.

Use AI to better progress your day to day task. There will be jobs that are create for people out of this.

Of course you're going to see a lot of opportunist use it in the worst ways (AI generated imagery is just one of many).

 

[StreetsofBeige]

You are looking at a super small segment of time. Look at the history of people. Tones at the bottom, a tiny amount in the middle and even less at the top. Just because we have a large middle class right doesn't mean it will stay. If anything this is just a blip in history and we are just lucky enough to live in it.

I dont know what wages were like long time ago, but in the past 100 years probably wages are up and middle class grows. So there is a good shift. I dont see that falling off anytime soon.

Dont be influenced by tech too much. It's the only industry that can truly whiz bang people into thinking the world is going to end, people will live on the moon, or everyone will be driving hover ships like George Jetson instead of cars.

Blips in history doesn't mean it's lucky or it'll go back to the past 100,000 years. Who cares what people lived and paid in medieval times or cavemen times. People's health and longevity have increased a lot the past hundred years. In 1900 the avg age of someone was like 50. Now it's around 80. Tech and safety improved a lot. Unless something catastrophic happens, we arent going back to being 6 inches shorter and dying at 50.

 

[Dr. Suchong]

I've said it before, I'll say it again. We will end up with a combination of the minority report and demolition man style authority style government.

I'm going underground to eat rat burgers then.

 

[Trogdor1123]

I dont know what wages were like long time ago, but in the past 100 years probably wages are up and middle class grows. So there is a good shift. I dont see that falling off anytime soon.

Dont be influenced by tech too much. It's the only industry that can truly whiz bang people into thinking the world is going to end, people will live on the moon, or everyone will be driving hover ships like George Jetson instead of cars.

Blips in history doesn't mean it's lucky or it'll go back to the past 100,000 years. Who cares what people lived and paid in medieval times or cavemen times. People's health and longevity have increased a lot the past hundred years. In 1900 the avg age of someone was like 50. Now it's around 80. Tech and safety improved a lot. Unless something catastrophic happens, we arent going back to being 6 inches shorter and dying at 50.

I totally hope you are right. I just don't see the system playing out where the top gives up stuff. I truly hope you are right though.

I also don't think it will totally collapse either, just that the separation of the top from the middle will increase, the middle will slowly shrink slowly, and the bottom will grow.

I really hope I'm wrong and you are right though.

 

[-Minsc-]

What colors my perception of what people call AI? As a child and young adult I have experience on a Farm. In my adult life I have worked in the construction industry. Combining computer programming with robotics and my past experience of machinery tells me things wear out and break. The world is not an ideal place and things typically do not go as planned. A computer aided machine maybe able to problem solve and fix something but if it does not then someone else is not going to stand and wait for it to do its job. They will go and figure it out and get it done.

There's too many out there with free will to stand by and do nothing.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

What colors my perception of what people call AI? As a child and young adult I have experience on a Farm. In my adult life I have worked in the construction industry. Combining computer programming with robotics and my past experience of machinery tells me things wear out and break. The world is not an ideal place and things typically do not go as planned. A computer aided machine maybe able to problem solve and fix something but if it does not then someone else is not going to stand and wait for it to do its job. They will go and figure it out and get it done.

There's too many out there with free will to stand by and do nothing.

I think the general gist of AI is that people type something into ChatGPT and it does everything for them. Or a programmer evolves robotics from boring assembly line robot arm into a real time AI evolution where it does tons of stuff on it's own thinking on its own or just requiring a programmer tweak.

Maybe some jobs can be AI'ed to death. But I dont see it. People assume that an AI bot taking over a job means someone loses a job and is unemployed forever which isnt true either.

 

[RoboFu]

It's the next level of marketing / social influencing really. That's why every corporation is so gung ho. It's full on social herding at its peek. If you thought the internet and influencers were bad you haven't seen anything yet.

 

[Tams]

I'm optimistic we won't have that in the UK. People complain about the unions here, but the unions are the reason we have some of the best workers rights in the world. I don't think they'd roll over and let masses of people go unemployed. I hope not anyway.

The issue is that without using AI, businesses employing people in countries that shun it will find it harder and harder to compete, then likely either cave in or go bankrupt.

Most British businesses (that we have left) struggle to compete as it is.

 

[IDKFA]

The issue is that without using AI, businesses employing people in countries that shun it will find it harder and harder to compete, then likely either cave in or go bankrupt.

Most British businesses (that we have left) struggle to compete as it is.

So the choice is mass redundancy or a bankrupt nation? Surly there is an alternative.