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How Long Could You Stay In Love-Less Marriage?
- Thread starter BojTrek
- Start date
- Status
Going back to original post, part of what you guys are talking about is culture. A Western phenomenon.
Many cultures still exist where arranged marriages take place, and then the process of marriage is learning to love your spouse.
I am not saying that this method is better or worse. Both marrying out of love vs arranged has its fair share of problems. I personally think Western society gives up too easily, and the high divorce rate just reinforces it. And despite how awkward it is to have a parent or elder choose your spouse, I think there's something great about learning to love someone, despite their flaws and inadequacies.
(And no, I'm not glossing over the fact that in many arranged marriage societies, the women are often seen as property, and that the men can be really abusive etc... I just find merit in the way their culture views love.)
Many cultures still exist where arranged marriages take place, and then the process of marriage is learning to love your spouse.
I am not saying that this method is better or worse. Both marrying out of love vs arranged has its fair share of problems. I personally think Western society gives up too easily, and the high divorce rate just reinforces it. And despite how awkward it is to have a parent or elder choose your spouse, I think there's something great about learning to love someone, despite their flaws and inadequacies.
(And no, I'm not glossing over the fact that in many arranged marriage societies, the women are often seen as property, and that the men can be really abusive etc... I just find merit in the way their culture views love.)
If your not smart enough to figure out your pregnant sorry but again that puts you in the stupid catagory. The rape pregnent is a different debate.
Condoms are effective unless they break. If it breaks pull it out. If it breaks at the worst possible time take the morning after pill. If a girl is too stupid to take the pill well what more can I say. I can't believe people actually have excuses for getting pregnent. You have to be a retard to get some one pregnent by accident.
My main point is your family comes before yourself. I see your a beliefer in that mistical perfect women. Great mother perfect wife does it all probable works full time too? To those of us that live in reality we realize nobody has it all. So you have to find a person that has what your after. I wan't a mother for my children. I'm a big boy and get take of myself. If you still need a Mommy you probable shouldnt have kids.
Condoms are effective unless they break. If it breaks pull it out. If it breaks at the worst possible time take the morning after pill. If a girl is too stupid to take the pill well what more can I say. I can't believe people actually have excuses for getting pregnent. You have to be a retard to get some one pregnent by accident.
My main point is your family comes before yourself. I see your a beliefer in that mistical perfect women. Great mother perfect wife does it all probable works full time too? To those of us that live in reality we realize nobody has it all. So you have to find a person that has what your after. I wan't a mother for my children. I'm a big boy and get take of myself. If you still need a Mommy you probable shouldnt have kids.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Even used properly contraceptives aren't foolproof.darscot said:
That's way overblowing things. If what he said translates to "My wife should be my love slave", then your occasional spelling mistakes make you Thickfingers McCantspell.darscot said:
Drinky Crow
Banned
I don't have any problem factoring my wife and daughter into any decision I make, large or small. You ONLY develop the attitude you're talking about when you get little or no positive feedback from your partner. When you get positive feedback, you're more than willing to compromise, because it's almost always better than focusing on yourself exclusively. Like it or not, we're social creatures, and our attitudes are shaped by our success in social interaction.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
darscot said:
If the condom breaks at the worst possible time, the girl may not even realise. If the guy's an asshole/scared of what that might mean, he might not tell her.
I assure you, it IS possible to get pregnant by accident, without being stupid.
You don't HAVE to have it all. But plenty of people have a wife they love, who loves thm, and is a good mother. Plenty.
We're saying the family comes first too. We're not saying, get divorced, you have to think of your own feelings. We're saying getting divorced might be the best thing for your family.
I can't claim to know what you should do, but don't let the marriage degenerate into a "stay together for the kids" marriage. I'm the product of one of those. When my dad was on his death bed last year, I was told my parents actually initiated divorce talks with lawyers when I was a young child, but called it off on account of me. Kids are very perceptive. . .they could tell when a marriage is loveless. I think a lot of my problems with being completely ineffectual have to do with the environment I was raised in.
But the divorce thing with my parents -- hearing that while my dad was days away from dying put my whole life in a horrible, new perspective. They chose to stay together to raise me in what they figured would be a better environment at the expense of possibly leading better lives themselves. The ugliest part is that the environment wasn't ideal. I bet they're proud of their misanthropic gay artist son.
But the divorce thing with my parents -- hearing that while my dad was days away from dying put my whole life in a horrible, new perspective. They chose to stay together to raise me in what they figured would be a better environment at the expense of possibly leading better lives themselves. The ugliest part is that the environment wasn't ideal. I bet they're proud of their misanthropic gay artist son.
Tsubaki said:
I'm sorry but the above is IMO a pretty retarded way of thinking... One does not equal the other, regardless of whether you love someone and marry them pre-arranged or not, part of truely loving someone is caring for them learning about and accepting the good AND the bad parts of them.
You can do that pre-arranged or falling in love on your own.
Hmm, I don't want to get married b/c I lose interest pretty quick. When in a relationship, I'm usually infatuated for a bit, but once it wears off (a few weeks), I just lose interest and turn off. If I was married to someone I didn't love anymore, I'd get a divorce. Then again, I have no interest in getting married in the first place, so it's hard for me to relate. But you should get out of it anyway. No point in sticking with a losing scenario. BTW, that's why I'm only having bastard children. :lol PEACE.
Mama Smurf said:
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. You view point defies all logic or reason in my mind. How do get a girl pregnent by accident. You just sitting at home jerking off and a girl suddenly runs into your room. You so scared you trip and fall and you land with your dick in her at the exact moment you orgasm? Then by no fault of your own you fail to go to the doctor or seek any type of help and before you know it she gives birth. Take some responsability.
keeblerdrow
Member
As much as you may not like the woman's politics, this book has saved thousands of marriages. It may be able to help your situation. At least have her read through it. But I'm also gonna echo bishop is saying there may be quite a bit that you can do as well. I mean no attack to you and don't fully know the situation, but the marriage works 2 ways and affection is more than just physical.
The most popular form of contraception is the latex condom, no?
http://www.siecus.org/pubs/fact/fact0011.html
Accidentally falling on a woman while orgasming, right darscot?
http://www.siecus.org/pubs/fact/fact0011.html
Accidentally falling on a woman while orgasming, right darscot?
Willco said:
Like everybody else in this thread, you're putting your own perspectives into your answer. Maybe you've seen loveless marriages not affect anyone, but there are others in this very thread telling you different. I was a damn near sexual deviant in my early twenties because my father indirectly taught me women weren't worth shit. If a woman so much as talked during sex I lost interest, because they weren't people, they were things to be used. Did I know this at the time? No. I was oblivious. I see it now, with the 20/20 vision hindsight brings.
It may be an excuse to blame everything on your parents, but they're the ones who ultimately have the most sway over you. An older guy I used to work with six or so years ago said to me,(and I'm sure he stole it from somewhere else) "I have something to learn from every man, woman, and child, even if it isn't the lesson they want to teach." Kids are the very embodiment of that philosophy. They are going to pick up what you don't want them to, and nine times out of ten, they're going to misunderstand it to their detriment. If we're still talking to each other in twenty years, BojTrek will be bitching about the fact that his daughter won't leave her idiot BF who doesn't love her. But it'll be his fault, because if their marriage doesn't get any better and he stays, he'll have taught her that it isn't okay to leave.
Marriage is a contract, a commitment. It isn't a Wookie life-debt.
What is the percent of human error in those cases? Also the stats are always going to leave a loop hole. No condom company is going to say how good they really are. If they said they were 99.99576% effective people would have grounds to sue if it didnt work. It's just so they can say we told you not to count on us.
Where is the numbers of crazy women poking holes in them. I've seen it first hand. Walked in on a girl with condom in one hand and needle in other. If I had not have seen her do it and got her pregnent I would still have been a stupid dumb ass.
Where is the numbers of crazy women poking holes in them. I've seen it first hand. Walked in on a girl with condom in one hand and needle in other. If I had not have seen her do it and got her pregnent I would still have been a stupid dumb ass.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
Honest to god.
Here we go:
1 - Guy and girl have sex. Both for the first time, they're inexperienced. She's on the pill, he's using a condom. The condom tears just as he cums. He pulls out, takes it off and throws it in the bin. They fall asleep. Next morning she doesn't buy the morning after pill, why should she, they used protection. Soon she finds she's pregnant. The condom tore and she beat the odds on the pill.
2 - As above, only they realise it tore. Girl takes morning after pill. Unfortunately, the pill is only 75-90% effective. She soon finds out she's pregnant.
3 - Girl uses pill and morning after pill, no condom. Still pregnant.
4 - Condom that tears, no pill, morning after pill. Still pregnant.
Can you not understand this? The odds are that these things won't happen to you, but we're not talking about what will probably happen, we're talking about what might. If you think about the number of people having sex in these fashions however many times next year, there WILL be accidental pregnancies.
I'm not talking about this anymore, there's nothing else to debate. You CAN get pregnant if you take precautions which should (and almost always will) mean you won't. It happens multiple times, every year.
EDIT: And taking into accoutn EvilLore's stats, there are even more ways.
Here we go:
1 - Guy and girl have sex. Both for the first time, they're inexperienced. She's on the pill, he's using a condom. The condom tears just as he cums. He pulls out, takes it off and throws it in the bin. They fall asleep. Next morning she doesn't buy the morning after pill, why should she, they used protection. Soon she finds she's pregnant. The condom tore and she beat the odds on the pill.
2 - As above, only they realise it tore. Girl takes morning after pill. Unfortunately, the pill is only 75-90% effective. She soon finds out she's pregnant.
3 - Girl uses pill and morning after pill, no condom. Still pregnant.
4 - Condom that tears, no pill, morning after pill. Still pregnant.
Can you not understand this? The odds are that these things won't happen to you, but we're not talking about what will probably happen, we're talking about what might. If you think about the number of people having sex in these fashions however many times next year, there WILL be accidental pregnancies.
I'm not talking about this anymore, there's nothing else to debate. You CAN get pregnant if you take precautions which should (and almost always will) mean you won't. It happens multiple times, every year.
EDIT: And taking into accoutn EvilLore's stats, there are even more ways.
DarienA said:
But also remember that in most arranged marriage situations, divorce is either frowned upon, or unallowed at all. Granted, it lends itself to abuse, but I don't know whether that is the norm or the exception.
At any rate, that's why I say the Western society gives up too easily. Marriage is cheap, because divorce is cheap. The title holds little weight. That being said, as I posted earlier, there's something to be admired from other cultures who aren't all about instant-gratification.
If you would read my link, darscot, the tests were not performed or compiled by condom companies, thus your nod at an ulterior motive to the numbers is not valid. Also:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs243/en/
http://www.emedicinehealth.com/articles/41273-8.asp
This is not a matter of opinion. Condoms are *not* essentially 100% effective, period.
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs243/en/
http://www.emedicinehealth.com/articles/41273-8.asp
This is not a matter of opinion. Condoms are *not* essentially 100% effective, period.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
I'm not even going to get into what you're saying there, I'm fed up with you, but let's say your figure there was right (and it's not, but let's say it was).
That would mean that if 10 million couples, who could conceive, had sex ONCE a year and all used condoms, which didn't tear, chances are 424 of them would get pregnant. Without a doubt more people than that are having sex just using a condom, and those people a hell of a lot more than once a year.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Awhile ago I had the opportunity to hear 3 talks and eat lunch with a man who has been a marriage counselor for over 30 years and helped over 3000 couples. Now he was also a pastor and did find the basis for his ideas in scripture, but if you don't believe in that it doesn't change the fact his advice has worked for thousands of couples.
His basic idea is that our feelings follow our actions. There is nothing someone else can do to make you love them, they can only help or hinder you from doing so. If your spouse is doign nearly everything to put you off from them, you can still love them if you so choose, but it would be like walking into the wind rather than having the wind to your back.
How does one choose to love their spouse? By doing all those good things a spouse ought to do, all those things you did early on to demonstrate to one another your love. The ways that you showed you cherish one another in your actions, setting your wants aside to give them what they need. It may sound a little strange first hearing it, but where your investment is your heart will follow.
Just think about anything in life, do we always just follow our passions, or do we often gain an appreciation for something after we have invested ourselves into it? He used many easy to understand examples, but I think if you sit down and consider it, you realize it's true. If you put time and effort into giving your very best for something, your feelings towards it increase greatly.
It applies to people, work, pets, hobbies, anything. Why do you think we get so many people on the baords who lost their "love" for gaming? Is it so strange that this happens when they begin growing up and investing into school and work and relationships with others? I really don't think it's all that odd, but your marriage is far more important than games, so you can't just let that investment slip.
He said how he went to this one asian country (I forget which) where all the marriages were arranged. He said how he asked everyone there the same questions he asks everyone, one being the simple question "Are you genuinely happy with your marriage?" It didn't have to do anything with divorce or if they were having doubts in their marriage, but quite simply were they happy in holding this commitment they made.
Well in the states as far as he had seen, only 20% of all couples would say they were really happy with their marriage, but over there 80% of them were. So why are the ratios reversed, in a country where people can't even hand pick their favorite person? Well it is because when they get married, their whole family takes them aside and asks them to be diligent in all their spousal duties for the sake of their family, so they are not shamed.
Each one loves their family already from the deep investments there, and so for their family they invest into one another. And many don't like their spouse at first, but out of dutiful investment grows respect, and out of respect grows love. Now he said how it's hard to do something for your own sake, so for whose sake do you do it?
Your first thought may be to do it for your child, but you need to make sure in doing this that your aren't focusing your investment on their sake and in doing so growing in your love for them and continuing to drift from your spouse. In many cases it's the investment into the children that starts the whole thing in the first place. So in your parenting you need to figure out how to invest in and serve one another in raising your child together.
But while it can be easy to just do everything for your kid and become distant from your wife, you still love your wife don't you? Then you are in a better place than many are, you can do it for the sake of all 3 of you. But remember that this isn't to make your spouse become more affectionate with you, this is to help you fall in love with her and have those feelings of affection yourself. You doing these things can help her, but ultimately she has to chose to invest in you as you do her.
The marriage counselor spoke of this one instance where just the wife came to him for counseling, and he gave her this advice and she followed it, and sure enough it worked for her but eventually the husband realized she was having a much better marriage than he was and so he wanted to know what was up. So they started getting counseling together and eventually he caught on to the concept and it worked for him as well.
Ok, so if we can only assist the other in loving us, how is it that we can do that best? Well for you, the best thing you can do for your woman is give her your cherished attention. A time every day where you put aside all your distractions, and focus on nothing but just her. Not just telling her that you love her, but listening to her, not so much showing her with praise but rather showering her with attention. Women need to know they are special and they are loved and cherished specially for who they are.
Men need to know that they are respected and appreciated in what they do and that they are making a difference. The best thing a wife can do is stand behind her man in his decisions and actions and let him know that she is proud of him in both her verbal affirmation and just the general attitude toward him and his performance as a man, father, husband and lover. This kind of support drives a man to do his best, if he knows that what he does means something to people he respects and loves he will give it his all.
Just keep in mind these aren't things to demand from one another, when it coems to marriage your mindset should always be what you can do for the other. If both of you have that concern then you will both constantly be giving what the other needs, and from that personal investment of yours pull your heart along in it's affections. But keep in mind it's extremely hard to do this if you do not feel whole as a person apart from your spouse. Another person can't give you self fulfillment, and trying to find that in your spouse will only run them dry and not satisfy you.
Now personally I'd say that you'll never truly be whole without God (Jesus Christ specifically) and I won't guarantee that you can find it in anything else, but I'll let you figure that stuff out yourself. Even so, just about every professional I have heard says the same thing about being whole in yourself before you can properly love another, and how another person can't give that to you. Looking for that in another and failing is the number one cause of divorce, but I don't think that is the issue you are having, I'm just throwing it out there.
Ok that is about all the advice I have left, but lastly I would advise you to see a marriage counselor. Having kids has a HUGE impact on your marriage and each one of you individually, and it's something you have never faced before so your ignorance can lead you into a lot of common mistakes. If she has issues with her father she needs to work through those before she can start investing in you fully, and you may have some issues to deal with yourself. Professional counseling can't do everything, but it can be a great help in your resolve to make the marriage work.
Heh, I just noticed my paragraphs slowly got bigger as Iw ent along, oh well. This thread seems to be degenerating so I'm also going to send this as a pm in case you aren't paying attention here anymore.
His basic idea is that our feelings follow our actions. There is nothing someone else can do to make you love them, they can only help or hinder you from doing so. If your spouse is doign nearly everything to put you off from them, you can still love them if you so choose, but it would be like walking into the wind rather than having the wind to your back.
How does one choose to love their spouse? By doing all those good things a spouse ought to do, all those things you did early on to demonstrate to one another your love. The ways that you showed you cherish one another in your actions, setting your wants aside to give them what they need. It may sound a little strange first hearing it, but where your investment is your heart will follow.
Just think about anything in life, do we always just follow our passions, or do we often gain an appreciation for something after we have invested ourselves into it? He used many easy to understand examples, but I think if you sit down and consider it, you realize it's true. If you put time and effort into giving your very best for something, your feelings towards it increase greatly.
It applies to people, work, pets, hobbies, anything. Why do you think we get so many people on the baords who lost their "love" for gaming? Is it so strange that this happens when they begin growing up and investing into school and work and relationships with others? I really don't think it's all that odd, but your marriage is far more important than games, so you can't just let that investment slip.
He said how he went to this one asian country (I forget which) where all the marriages were arranged. He said how he asked everyone there the same questions he asks everyone, one being the simple question "Are you genuinely happy with your marriage?" It didn't have to do anything with divorce or if they were having doubts in their marriage, but quite simply were they happy in holding this commitment they made.
Well in the states as far as he had seen, only 20% of all couples would say they were really happy with their marriage, but over there 80% of them were. So why are the ratios reversed, in a country where people can't even hand pick their favorite person? Well it is because when they get married, their whole family takes them aside and asks them to be diligent in all their spousal duties for the sake of their family, so they are not shamed.
Each one loves their family already from the deep investments there, and so for their family they invest into one another. And many don't like their spouse at first, but out of dutiful investment grows respect, and out of respect grows love. Now he said how it's hard to do something for your own sake, so for whose sake do you do it?
Your first thought may be to do it for your child, but you need to make sure in doing this that your aren't focusing your investment on their sake and in doing so growing in your love for them and continuing to drift from your spouse. In many cases it's the investment into the children that starts the whole thing in the first place. So in your parenting you need to figure out how to invest in and serve one another in raising your child together.
But while it can be easy to just do everything for your kid and become distant from your wife, you still love your wife don't you? Then you are in a better place than many are, you can do it for the sake of all 3 of you. But remember that this isn't to make your spouse become more affectionate with you, this is to help you fall in love with her and have those feelings of affection yourself. You doing these things can help her, but ultimately she has to chose to invest in you as you do her.
The marriage counselor spoke of this one instance where just the wife came to him for counseling, and he gave her this advice and she followed it, and sure enough it worked for her but eventually the husband realized she was having a much better marriage than he was and so he wanted to know what was up. So they started getting counseling together and eventually he caught on to the concept and it worked for him as well.
Ok, so if we can only assist the other in loving us, how is it that we can do that best? Well for you, the best thing you can do for your woman is give her your cherished attention. A time every day where you put aside all your distractions, and focus on nothing but just her. Not just telling her that you love her, but listening to her, not so much showing her with praise but rather showering her with attention. Women need to know they are special and they are loved and cherished specially for who they are.
Men need to know that they are respected and appreciated in what they do and that they are making a difference. The best thing a wife can do is stand behind her man in his decisions and actions and let him know that she is proud of him in both her verbal affirmation and just the general attitude toward him and his performance as a man, father, husband and lover. This kind of support drives a man to do his best, if he knows that what he does means something to people he respects and loves he will give it his all.
Just keep in mind these aren't things to demand from one another, when it coems to marriage your mindset should always be what you can do for the other. If both of you have that concern then you will both constantly be giving what the other needs, and from that personal investment of yours pull your heart along in it's affections. But keep in mind it's extremely hard to do this if you do not feel whole as a person apart from your spouse. Another person can't give you self fulfillment, and trying to find that in your spouse will only run them dry and not satisfy you.
Now personally I'd say that you'll never truly be whole without God (Jesus Christ specifically) and I won't guarantee that you can find it in anything else, but I'll let you figure that stuff out yourself. Even so, just about every professional I have heard says the same thing about being whole in yourself before you can properly love another, and how another person can't give that to you. Looking for that in another and failing is the number one cause of divorce, but I don't think that is the issue you are having, I'm just throwing it out there.
Ok that is about all the advice I have left, but lastly I would advise you to see a marriage counselor. Having kids has a HUGE impact on your marriage and each one of you individually, and it's something you have never faced before so your ignorance can lead you into a lot of common mistakes. If she has issues with her father she needs to work through those before she can start investing in you fully, and you may have some issues to deal with yourself. Professional counseling can't do everything, but it can be a great help in your resolve to make the marriage work.
Heh, I just noticed my paragraphs slowly got bigger as Iw ent along, oh well. This thread seems to be degenerating so I'm also going to send this as a pm in case you aren't paying attention here anymore.
Guys I know condoms are not 100% effective. But the major reason for there malfunction is human stupidity. I keep hearing what if this, and this happens you could get pregnant. Well just to show how swell I am I'll change my post. 98% of people that "accidently" get pregnant are stupid. The other 2% are not. Happy now?
I am happily married, and have two great kids. My wife is a far better Mother then she is a wife and that is exactly why I love her. What makes me an immature bachelor the fact that I think when you get married and have kids you should be a man and stick with it.
I am happily married, and have two great kids. My wife is a far better Mother then she is a wife and that is exactly why I love her. What makes me an immature bachelor the fact that I think when you get married and have kids you should be a man and stick with it.
MrAngryFace
Banned
I grew up in a divorced marriage, and my childhood was pretty hellish.
I didnt start feeling good about myself or my current situation till my junior year of high school. Of course my situation is unique, as are all. Cant really cookie cutter major decisions.
There are drawbacks to forcing relationships that dont work too. I do wonder sometimes where I would be if my parents hadn't split.
I didnt start feeling good about myself or my current situation till my junior year of high school. Of course my situation is unique, as are all. Cant really cookie cutter major decisions.
There are drawbacks to forcing relationships that dont work too. I do wonder sometimes where I would be if my parents hadn't split.
Alcibiades
Member
shuri said:
Dr Phil turns toward the audience and ask "...Then why did the fuck did you get married in the first place?"
I know the situation isn't any laughing matter, but this post was one of the funniest ever, especially if you imagine Dr. Phil saying it in his voice, it sounds remeniscent of something he'd say (of course he wouldn't say THIS or anything this negative)...
Alcibiades
Member
Mama Smurf said:
Yeah, same here, I think my parents would be better off divorced (even though it's me and a younger brother and sister), but I think the stigma attached to it in the community I live in is too much pressure and I've finally come to accept they're ignorant drones that thrive on conformity. I know I think I'd be better off at least knowing they are living for their own happiness, and maybe I wouldn't be around what I construe as misery so much in my home.
As YAMG, I suppose I may as well throw my two cents in. Mostly, I agree that divorce, once children are involved, is a last resort. But I also agree that a loveless marriage is not a resort at all.
My wife and I have chosen to not deliberately have children, and to be extra careful with protection, for several years. This is partly because we want to enjoy our time alone together, and partly, I suppose, because if our marriage ain't working, we'll know by the time we're ready to have children.
If I were in your situation, and I had exhausted all possibility of making the marriage work, I would probably try my very best for an amicable separation/divorce (yes, this is possible) and try to get joint custody. If you're still friends, don't ruin it by stressing the marriage to its breaking point.
My wife and I have chosen to not deliberately have children, and to be extra careful with protection, for several years. This is partly because we want to enjoy our time alone together, and partly, I suppose, because if our marriage ain't working, we'll know by the time we're ready to have children.
If I were in your situation, and I had exhausted all possibility of making the marriage work, I would probably try my very best for an amicable separation/divorce (yes, this is possible) and try to get joint custody. If you're still friends, don't ruin it by stressing the marriage to its breaking point.
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