Support NeoGAF

[Zoramon089]

DQ has fan service. I'm sure Monster Hunter has some racy costumes somewhere too. And, by the by, all those games are aimed at a younger market.

I wouldn't say any younger than the market CoD and Battlefield are aimed at...just because they're rated M doesn't mean they're targeting the 17+ crowd
And my point still stands that it's a disingenuous comparison because you basically listed games that don't even have female characters which I argue is even worse (although that's another discussion altogether)

 

[Coffee Dog]

I would say next to none, but I can't think of any western games without it either, unless we are discounting males entirely.

 

[Romars202129]

got it... Female body=bad


awesome killshots=art





I'll take both. I'm secure enough in myself to love what I love and not to care what the rest of gAF thinks. If you love it be proud. It's ok to love a variety of things

Come on, I'm one of you, doesn't my pic show that? But think about it, does MGS need all the girly mags? Does Final Fantasy need crazy hooker garb for every heroine? I think there's a point here, and the main reason so many people so easily downplay anything Japanese.

 

[Tranced Shadow]

I always thought of fanservice as an unneeded distraction from the game process created to please the target audience. It really troubles me that even games with serious tone like Zero Escape have those unnecessary dumb discussions about swimsuits and more direct sexual suggestions. [MASSIVE VIRTUE'S LAST REWARD SPOILER]

You really should clarify that that's a spoiler (and a really big one) for VLR.

 

[Gravijah]

Fanservice isn't just scantily clad ladies. It's action scenes, awesome shots of a big mecha, cameos, etc.

Essentially, every game is guilty of it on both sides of the world.

 

[Flek]

i like fan service

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

Come on, I'm one of you, doesn't my pic show that? But think about it, does MGS need all the girly mags? Does Final Fantasy need crazy hooker garb for every heroine? I think there's a point here, and the main reason so many people so easily downplay anything Japanese.

What's wrong with a couple pin up posters

What's wrong with developers putting there likes and dislikes into a game

Its crazy when it's acceptable to have stealth kills and headshots (West Fanservice), but we cant have a girl in a bikini for a minute or 2 in a 16 hour campaign


Bad character design is another thing, but as bad as Lightning may look to some, it's not half as bad as some of the more terrible character designs out there that ACTUALLY show the fanservice(digi-skin) the OP is afraid to get off on (sorry.. continuing your joke)



Outside of Japanese PC games the west is the ones that actually have sex mini games in their console games


I may be wrong, but is there a japanese console game with a sex scene? I know of a few western developed ones (Heavy Rain, God of War)

 

[Romars202129]

I wouldn't say any younger than the market CoD and Battlefield are aimed at...just because they're rated M doesn't mean they're targeting the 17+ crowd
And my point still stands that it's a disingenuous comparison because you basically listed games that don't even have female characters which I argue is even worse (although that's another discussion altogether)

I'm not sure what you're point is, but I think it's pretty obvious scantilly clad women aren't in those games just because a younger audience might be playing them.
And yeah, maybe scantilly clad women aren't in place because they'd be out of place in those games, but think about it, are they ever not out of place? Be honest, do you think there's something like the beauty and the beast squad anywhere in the real world, other than some S&M joint?
That's the point I'm making, they'll jam the stuff in anywhere. It is weird. Even if personally, I do like it, I can still see that.

 

[bobbychalkers]

What's the point in singling out Japanese games, there's plenty of fanservice in western games as well.

 

[Romars202129]

What's wrong with a couple pin up posters

What's wrong with developers putting there likes and dislikes into a game

Its crazy when it's acceptable to have stealth kills and headshots (West Fanservice), but we cant have a girl in a bikini for a minute or 2 in a 16 hour campaign


Bad character design is another thing, but as bad as Lightning may look to some, it's not half as bad as some of the more terrible character designs out there that ACTUALLY show the fanservice(digi-skin) the OP is afraid to get off on (sorry.. continuing your joke)

Actually, I do like MGS exactly the way it is, too. Even the kissy thing was hilarious to me... I'm just saying, I'm picking up on the idea of the OP, it does kind of feel odd that it is such a neccessity in Japanese design.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

I'm not sure what you're point is, but I think it's pretty obvious scantilly clad women aren't in those games just because a younger audience might be playing them.
And yeah, maybe scantilly clad women aren't in place because they'd be out of place in those games, but think about it, are they ever not out of place? Be honest, do you think there's something like the beauty and the beast squad anywhere in the real world, other than some S&M joint?
That's the point I'm making, they'll jam the stuff in anywhere. It is weird. Even if personally, I do like it, I can still see that.

Women cant be victims on the battlefield?

Actually, I do like MGS exactly the way it is, too. Even the kissy thing was hilarious to me... I'm just saying, I'm picking up on the idea of the OP, it does kind of feel odd that it is such a neccessity in Japanese design.

Im not saying fan service isnt in Japanese games... it is

And in MGS4 it was definitely there, but I dont think that makes The Beauty and the Beast squad less developed or thrown in.

Sure they were heavily sexualized, that can be used as a weapon, and every weapon is needed on the battlefield

Did you let them grab you once? I'm sure you did....That means you would have died if it were real. Kojima plays with your mind man

 

[Zoramon089]

I'm not sure what you're point is, but I think it's pretty obvious scantilly clad women aren't in those games just because a younger audience might be playing them.
And yeah, maybe scantilly clad women aren't in place because they'd be out of place in those games, but think about it, are they ever not out of place? Be honest, do you think there's something like the beauty and the beast squad anywhere in the real world, other than some S&M joint?
That's the point I'm making, they'll jam the stuff in anywhere. It is weird. Even if personally, I do like it, I can still see that.

There are female soldiers you know...not to mention these are fictional settings so there's no reason why there can't be women in it

 

[Cpt Conifer]

Why you gotta talk shit about the fertility goddess of Anor Londo. You should be praising the sun.

 

[Clay Davis]

Nier. don't even bother posting the picture of Kainé in her lingerie, that's just how women roll at the end of all things.

 

[GuessMyUserName]

Holy crap there's a serious problem on sexuality here. Any revealing clothing is just pandering creepy virtual porn? The craziest part of this is trying to frame it as one of those "Japanese are pervs, I can't play their games without them trying to rub my crotch!" things when the West has incredibly popularized sex among its AAA Mature titles this gen.

 

[joe2187]

Why you gotta talk shit about the fertility goddess of Anor Londo. You should be praising the sun.

I dont think she's a fertility godess

she's the godess of sunlight, and she's merely an illusion, she fled Anor lando ages ago

She's nothing more than a giant booby trap to lure undead to rekindle the flames

 

[Romars202129]

Women cant be victims on the battlefield?






Im not saying fan service isnt in Japanese games... it is

And in MGS4 it was definitely there, but I dont think that makes The Beauty and the Beast squad less developed or thrown in.

Sure they were heavily sexualized, that can be used as a weapon, and every weapon is needed on the battlefield

Did you let them grab you once? I'm sure you did....That means you would have died if it were real. Kojima plays with your mind man

Why would they need to objectify themselves? They were total badasses. Eva was a better example of that, because she actually had to be a honey pot, but the B&Bs were just total objectification, misogyny. Kojima made The Boss, so he does actually know how to make strong female characters, that's what makes it worse.

I mean, yeah, I can see what Kojima was trying, and I so appreciate he's one of the few directors to regularly employ subversive ideas and techniques. But, he could have done better here, maybe only handled one of them like that, at least.

 

[wyrdwad]

Sex is a part of life. I respect developers who casually put everyday sexuality into their games without a second thought.

I'm more concerned about developers who intentionally AVOID doing this, as repressing one's sexuality can be very dangerous.

Now, I do agree "fanservice" is very much skewed toward risque images of women, which is why I support games that include risque images of both women AND men. Show some hot naked dudes along with your hot naked women so that both genders can be happy, and IMHO you're a progressive developer.

-Tom

 

[tyranid5]

What's the point in singling out Japanese games, there's plenty of fanservice in western games as well.

^This

Sex is a part of life. I respect developers who casually put everyday sexuality into their games without a second thought.

I'm more concerned about developers who intentionally AVOID doing this, as repressing one's sexuality can be very dangerous.

Now, I do agree "fanservice" is very much skewed toward risque images of women, which is why I support games that include risque images of both women AND men. Show some hot naked dudes along with your hot naked women so that both genders can be happy, and IMHO you're a progressive developer.

-Tom

2 quotes I agree with the most in this thread.
Japanese games have fanservice, so do western games.

This Christmas my Mom gave me my brother's christmas list, because he asks for way too many games each year and i narrow down the list for them. This Christmas he had a japanese eroge on his list.... that my mom was going to email to our grandma, who would've just typed the name into google. He's sheltered and an idiot, but i still love him.

Another story in the same parallel, I'm back at college now. My mom called me because my brother wanted to buy the Mass Effect trilogy (PS3), I had ME2 & ME3 with me and explained he could buy Mass Effect off of PSN and I'd bring the other 2 home. Now, I have to wonder, when he reaches the end...... i hope my parents aren't in the room.

Western/Japanese both have games that are... awkward or that you just have to be careful with.

Side Note: My brother and i are twins, almost 21, and like i said before he doesn't understand many things. Giving Grandma a heart attack is one of many.

 

[Crash Station]

If people would stop being defensive, I think the op does have a point. While it's true plenty of Western games are very fanservicey.
But, think COD, Battlefield, Valve games, some of the biggest series are without.
But, with Japanese, no series is completely above it. Unless it's aimed at children, and sometimes even then, there's fan service.
And not just any fanservice, but animish fanservice more often than not. Which is weird.
Think about it, true, the western world invented Furry dom, which is a much weirder thing but, nobody is really pandering to those freaks here. Where as anime freaks' needs are front and center in Japanland.
It's weird, it shows a weakness in their 'art' on the most basic level. Which is a shame, because their art is so strong otherwise.

This is a very uniformed and offensive post.

 

[Doctor Decimate]

Mario..?

 

[Romars202129]

This is a very uniformed and offensive post.

Why thank you, I try to be as uniform as possible.

 

[Tomat]

If people would stop being defensive, I think the op does have a point. While it's true plenty of Western games are very fanservicey.
But, think COD, Battlefield, Valve games, some of the biggest series are without.
But, with Japanese, no series is completely above it. Unless it's aimed at children, and sometimes even then, there's fan service.
And not just any fanservice, but animish fanservice more often than not. Which is weird.
Think about it, true, the western world invented Furry dom, which is a much weirder thing but, nobody is really pandering to those freaks here. Where as anime freaks' needs are front and center in Japanland.
It's weird, it shows a weakness in their 'art' on the most basic level. Which is a shame, because their art is so strong otherwise.

And then there's this asshole.

 

[Romars202129]

And then there's this asshole.

Just to be clear, what's the problem?

 

[Tomat]

Just to be clear, what's the problem?

I'd like to see how many more people you could try to insult with another well thought out post.

 

[Romars202129]

I'd like to see how many more people you could try to insult with another well thought out post.

Whom I insulting? Are you insulted? If so, sorry.

 

[Tomat]

If people would stop being defensive, I think the op does have a point. While it's true plenty of Western games are very fanservicey.
But, think COD, Battlefield, Valve games, some of the biggest series are without.
But, with Japanese, no series is completely above it. Unless it's aimed at children, and sometimes even then, there's fan service.
And not just any fanservice, but animish fanservice more often than not. Which is weird.
Think about it, true, the western world invented Furry dom, which is a much weirder thing but, nobody is really pandering to those freaks here. Where as anime freaks' needs are front and center in Japanland.
It's weird, it shows a weakness in their 'art' on the most basic level. Which is a shame, because their art is so strong otherwise.

Nope, nothing wrong with this post.

 

[PreyingShark]

Dragon Age: Origins' dry-humping scenes were far more explicit than anything I've seen in 90% of non-eroge Japanese games.

...Just saying.

 

[spandexmonkey]

The real problem is not enough fan service. Tons of male characters in games who could really use fewer clothes.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I don't get this thread. It's like asking "What Western games don't idolize gun violence", it is flame bait meant to draw arbitrary lines in the sand.

Western Games have fan service too. We call it sex-appeal.



Dark Souls

Basically.

Japanese game = Fan service
Western game = Sex appeal

Different names for the same shit.

 

[Romars202129]

Nope, nothing wrong with this post.

I speak casually, I'm blue collar. I just said somewhere here, I'm a big anime fan, and I kinda like fanservice. And I love Japan more than any normal person should, I assure you.
My problem is with lolliconing though, yeah, those freaks, and that's what I was alluding to. And yes, that is present in games as well.
Fan service of that nature, is what we're all dancing around here.

 

[wyrdwad]

My problem is with lolliconing though, yeah, those freaks, and that's what I was alluding to. And yes, that is present in games as well.

Hardly ALL of them, though. If anything, that's in the minority -- fanservice in Japanese games usually implies breasts more than anything, and generally big ones, which is not something any game that's pandering to lolicon fetishists would feature. Among the biggest fanservice games out there, for example, are Bayonetta and the Suda51 titles, and those games certainly aren't playing on lolicon fetishes in the slightest.

Now, full-on hentai games? Yeah, there's tons of lolicon in those. But that's not what we're discussing here. We're discussing mainstream Japanese gaming, not fringe pornography.

I understood the point of your message, but your phrasing could indeed be seen as rather offensive. Your labeling of furries as "freaks," for example, is indicative of something I've always found baffling -- here on the internet, there are a million different fetishes that are completely accepted and even catered toward... but furry fandom, which is completely harmless, is somehow seen as going TOO FAR, and gets ridiculed and insulted regularly.

I'm no furry personally, but I have no issue with people who are. They're just having some fun, and honestly, there's nothing at all wrong with it. If you're turned off by what they're doing, then just don't look at it!

-Tom

 

[Romars202129]

Hardly ALL of them, though. If anything, that's in the minority -- fanservice in Japanese games usually implies breasts more than anything, and generally big ones, which is not something any game that's pandering to lolicon fetishists would feature. Among the biggest fanservice games out there, for example, are Bayonetta and the Suda51 titles, and those games certainly aren't playing on lolicon fetishes in the slightest.

Now, full-on hentai games? Yeah, there's tons of lolicon in those. But that's not what we're discussing here. We're discussing mainstream Japanese gaming, not fringe pornography.

I understood the point of your message, but your phrasing could indeed be seen as rather offensive. Your labeling of furries as "freaks," for example, is indicative of something I've always found baffling -- here on the internet, there are a million different fetishes that are completely accepted and even catered toward... but furry fandom, which is completely harmless, is somehow seen as going TOO FAR, and gets ridiculed and insulted regularly.

I'm no furry personally, but I have no issue with people who are. They're just having some fun, and honestly, there's nothing at all wrong with it. If you're turned off by what they're doing, then just don't look at it!

-Tom

It's more mainstream than that, but I don't really want to talk about it now that I think about it.
But it's clear now, if I say anime freak, I don't mean anime fan? Then I'm sattisfied.

 

[meltingparappa]

Basically.

Japanese game = Fan service
Western game = Sex appeal

Different names for the same shit.

Except only one generates an incredibly condescending thread title.

Also if we prudishly mock every bit of sexuality in games, there's no way that a mature depiction can ever float to the top.

 

[Femmeworth]

Sex is a part of life. I respect developers who casually put everyday sexuality into their games without a second thought.

Define "everyday sexuality."

I'm more concerned about developers who intentionally AVOID doing this, as repressing one's sexuality can be very dangerous.

By this logic, all games should be violent.

 

[Haunted]

Here's a handy guide for the OP

Games targeted at teenage males = chance of sexual fanservice 100% (might also include male power fantasies).
Games targeted at mature audiences = chance of fanservice is lower.
Games targeted at kids/families/everyone = no fanservice (Nintendo!)


Sex sells is not a Japanese saying and holds true across all industries and countries where males dominate the demographics (e.g. hot girls on car hoods).

 

[Tomat]

By this logic, all games should be violent.

Avoiding would be like trying to not include it in any of your games at all. You can include that kind of stuff in games without putting it in every video game, so no, that's not really what his logic says.

 

[wyrdwad]

Define "everyday sexuality."

OK. Let's go with a few examples:

- Someone who has an outgoing personality and is looking for a mate, choosing to wear provocative clothes.
- Someone being naked while bathing.
- Someone hitting on someone else and commenting on his/her physical features in the process.
- Public displays of affection.

A good example of fanservice done WELL, in my opinion, is the bath scene during chapter 1 in Corpse Party: Book of Shadows. Yes, yes, two girls in a bath together, and one decides she simply CAN'T RESIST grabbing the other's ass... we all know that's done purely to pander to the target audience, right?

...No, I'd argue not. That scene is included for character development on the parts of both Naomi and Seiko. It clearly establishes the closeness of the characters, Seiko's boldness, Seiko's "hidden" desires, potentially Naomi's confusion about her own burgeoning sexuality, and also gives Naomi (and the player) a fond memory of two friends having stupid fun together, which she can look back upon once horrible things begin happening.

It's very effective storytelling, and in all honesty, I don't believe chapter 1 of the game would have nearly as much of an impact without it. I applaud 5pb and Team GrisGris for including such a scene, and feel that looking at it as pure pandering would be doing the game and its writers a tremendous disservice.

By this logic, all games should be violent.

No, but I don't think any game should hold back on displaying violent imagery if it's realistic or appropriate for the situation. If somebody gets shot as part of your story, there will be blood -- so show the blood. Don't make it a bloodless gunshot wound purely for the sake of getting a lower content rating.

-Tom

 

[wyrdwad]

(This message intentionally left blank -- accidentally posted a second instead of editing the first, and can't seem to delete it.)

 

[Crash Station]

OK. Let's go with a few examples:

- Someone who has an outgoing personality and is looking for a mate, choosing to wear provocative clothes.
- Someone being naked while bathing.
- Someone hitting on someone else and commenting on his/her physical features in the process.
- Public displays of affection.

A good example of fanservice done WELL, in my opinion, is the bath scene during chapter 1 in Corpse Party: Book of Shadows. Yes, yes, two girls in a bath together, and one decides she simply CAN'T RESIST grabbing the other's ass... we all know that's done purely to pander to the target audience, right?

...No, I'd argue not. That scene is included for character development on the parts of both Naomi and Seiko. It clearly establishes the closeness of the characters, Seiko's boldness, Seiko's "hidden" desires, potentially Naomi's confusion about her own burgeoning sexuality, and also gives Naomi (and the player) a fond memory of two friends having stupid fun together, which she can look back upon once horrible things begin happening.

It's very effective storytelling, and in all honesty, I don't believe chapter 1 of the game would have nearly as much of an impact without it. I applaud 5pb and Team GrisGris for including such a scene, and feel that looking at it as pure pandering would be doing the game and its writers a tremendous disservice.

Add in the fact "Skinship" is a thing in Japan and it becomes even less fanservicey.

 

[The Awesomest]

you would have to be a major weirdo to find a patapon or locoroco sexy

"Awesome" Fan Art thread is on the case!

 

[mclem]

Anything by Team Ico and Level-5.

The specification was 'from this gen'.

 

[Femmeworth]

OK. Let's go with a few examples:

- Someone who has an outgoing personality and is looking for a mate, choosing to wear provocative clothes.
- Someone being naked while bathing.
- Someone hitting on someone else and commenting on his/her physical features in the process.
- Public displays of affection.

Okay, that's fine. Though commenting on someone's physical features can be sexual harassment.

A good example of fanservice done WELL, in my opinion, is the bath scene during chapter 1 in Corpse Party: Book of Shadows. Yes, yes, two girls in a bath together, and one decides she simply CAN'T RESIST grabbing the other's ass... we all know that's done purely to pander to the target audience, right?

...No, I'd argue not. That scene is included for character development on the parts of both Naomi and Seiko. It clearly establishes the closeness of the characters, Seiko's boldness, Seiko's "hidden" desires, potentially Naomi's confusion about her own burgeoning sexuality, and also gives Naomi (and the player) a fond memory of two friends having stupid fun together, which she can look back upon once horrible things begin happening.

It's very effective storytelling, and in all honesty, I don't believe chapter 1 of the game would have nearly as much of an impact without it. I applaud 5pb and Team GrisGris for including such a scene, and feel that looking at it as pure pandering would be doing the game and its writers a tremendous disservice.

That just sounds like sexual harassment to me with weak justification.

Add in the fact "Skinship" is a thing in Japan and it becomes even less fanservicey.

It's totally not sexual harassment if its between friends.

 

[Crash Station]

It's totally not sexual harassment if its between friends.

That's like saying changing a diaper is sexual.

 

[Roubjon]

you would have to be a major weirdo to find a patapon or locoroco sexy

Please excuse my paint skills.

I'm sorry.

 

[wyrdwad]

That just sounds like sexual harassment to me with weak justification.

I'm sure it does. If you play through Corpse Party and then play Book of Shadows chapter 1, however, I think you'll see that it's quite a lot more than that. It's a brilliant fusion of Japanese cultural norms and taboos with genuine psychology to create one of the most realistic and heartbreaking portrayals of teenage homosexuality that I've ever seen in any creative medium. That scene, when combined with another later in the chapter, is absolutely crucial to establishing Seiko's character and making the player sympathize with her, despite her flaws and failings, and is a perfect example of Corpse Party writing at its best.

If you go into it expecting to be offended, though, then of course you will be.

It's totally not sexual harassment if its between friends.

Well, culturally... it's kinda not! Skinship really is a thing, and is a totally accepted part of modern Japanese society. You may disagree with it, but that doesn't make it any less real or less acceptable within its own cultural context.

Though to be fair, the scene in question definitely treads away from skinship and into sexual harassment territory, with Naomi even specifically identifying it as sexual harassment... but that's part of why it has the impact it does. It shows how Seiko takes advantage of Japanese cultural mores to go a bit farther than she should with Naomi, awkwardly testing to see what kind of reaction she gets... and it shows that Naomi, despite being "harassed," is tolerant of it and even thinks fondly of it in retrospect. These aren't good qualities, and they're not things that the game advocates everyone share... but they are qualities that help define both characters as flawed yet apologetically relatable individuals.

...You really just need to see it, in context and with full awareness of the previous game's developments as well. It's something that will always sound awful when described, but fits so snugly into Corpse Party canon that it's clearly meant to do much more than simply titillate the audience.

-Tom

 

[Pachterballs]

Gran Turismo

car porn man.

/fap fap fap



btw this isn't the thread I expected from the title. I thought it was about "fan service" not handjobs aka games that make you want to masturbate.

 

[ULTROS!]

The Japanese games that have fan service are usually those that aren't and won't be localized.

 

[Vilix]

PlatinumGames and Suda 51 seem to promote a quite a bit of fan service in their games.

 

[Tain]

What a silly concept, both this thread's variant (sexual only) and the more common version.