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How to Invest for Retirement

friday

Member
So, I am 27 and I really want to start investing in my retirement. I am able to put a few hundred away in savings every month and now my savings is at a level that I feel is good as an emergency fund (no income for 2-4 months). That said, I do not have the money to pay the minimum for something like Vanguard's Total stock index fund. I am also interested in starting a Roth IRA. I would like to get on this quick to take advantage of this discount period.

Should I keep saving until I can jump into an Index fund, or start now with a Roth IRA?
 

clove

Neo Member
So, I am 27 and I really want to start investing in my retirement. I am able to put a few hundred away in savings every month and now my savings is at a level that I feel is good as an emergency fund (no income for 2-4 months). That said, I do not have the money to pay the minimum for something like Vanguard's Total stock index fund. I am also interested in starting a Roth IRA. I would like to get on this quick to take advantage of this discount period.

Should I keep saving until I can jump into an Index fund, or start now with a Roth IRA?

A Roth IRA is just a different account; you still have to choose investment funds to hold inside of it which are subject to fund minimums. The lowest minimum is $1000 for funds like the Target Retirement 2050. You could start there, then move funds to a different investment when you reach the amount needed.

Definitely start the Roth first, rather than a taxable account. The tax savings are huge over time.
 
This. All I did was shift my deferred comp percentages back to stable (money essentially sits and makes peanuts worth of gains or nothing) and left all my large cap vanguard and balanced shares/$ money in because it will eventually rebound (have 30years till I retire)

However, after the market bottoms out, I will take a good chunk of my stable and dump it into the market and shift my percentages so that I buy vanguard shares again.

Now the question is whether or not the DOW will bottom out at 10,000 or 5,000...

Surely you've read enough to know that there's no timing the market.

"After the market bottoms out" means nothing since there's no way of knowing that. Just put it in as soon as you can.
 
So, we're still staying there course, right guys?

Yes. Most of us here are 20 years or more away from retirement. The view to have is that the market is at a bargain compared to where it was a few days ago, even if it continues downward a bit -- or a lot -- further.

Leave your money in and keep up with your normal investing pattern.
 

TMC

Member
I have an extra $3,000 in my checking account. My savings consists of about 10 months worth of living expenses, but I plan to use about a third of that for a down payment for a car in the next 1-2 years Should I move the $3,000 to my savings account or further invest in my taxable account? I make monthly contributions to my Roth IRA as well. I could also put about $2,500 into that to max it out for the year and then put the remaining balance in my taxable account.

The stocks I currently invest in are VTSMX and VGTSX which have both tanked in the last couple of days. I am not too concerned about this since I am still about 40 years away from retirement. This just made me a little apprehensive I guess towards putting the entire $3,000 into my taxable account or Roth IRA.

Thanks for any advice guys!
 
I have an extra $3,000 in my checking account. My savings consists of about 10 months worth of living expenses, but I plan to use about a third of that for a down payment for a car in the next 1-2 years Should I move the $3,000 to my savings account or further invest in my taxable account? I make monthly contributions to my Roth IRA as well. I could also put about $2,500 into that to max it out for the year and then put the remaining balance in my taxable account.

The stocks I currently invest in are VTSMX and VGTSX which have both tanked in the last couple of days. I am not too concerned about this since I am still about 40 years away from retirement. This just made me a little apprehensive I guess towards putting the entire $3,000 into my taxable account or Roth IRA.

Thanks for any advice guys!

It's a no brainer, top off your Roth, good market or bad.
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Stay the course, or take the opportunity to invest more. I'm in the process of switching banks, moved most of my savings to my new account but put nearly a third into my taxable investment account since my IRA is maxed for the year.

With my luck the market will bounce back several percent tomorrow before it goes through.
 

TMC

Member
It's a no brainer, top off your Roth, good market or bad.

Thanks for your input! I figured that would be the response I would get. What would be the best way to handle the money I would have allocated to the Roth throughout the rest of the tax year? Should I put that in my taxable account or my savings account? This holds my VGTSX shares and some VTSMX shares. I'm currently allocating 30% of my income for savings/investments and I am 27. Of that 30%, I allocated the appropriate percentage to max out my Roth for the tax year with monthly deposits and put the remaining towards buying more shares in my taxable account.

I would just put the excess towards a 401k, but I don't currently have one. I am only going to be with my employer for about another 6 months. I never enrolled in their 401k when I started since they didn't match any contributions and seemed lousy overall. I am definitely going to start a 401k with my next employer regardless though.
 

inm8num2

Member
So, I am 27 and I really want to start investing in my retirement. I am able to put a few hundred away in savings every month and now my savings is at a level that I feel is good as an emergency fund (no income for 2-4 months). That said, I do not have the money to pay the minimum for something like Vanguard's Total stock index fund. I am also interested in starting a Roth IRA. I would like to get on this quick to take advantage of this discount period.

Should I keep saving until I can jump into an Index fund, or start now with a Roth IRA?

If you want to start with lower initial investments and work in your contributions, you have a few options:

- Open a Vanguard Roth IRA brokerage. You can then pick a couple no-commission broad index ETFs (minimum purchase is one share) - keep in mind that you are still required to start with $3000 into your settlement fund (basically your money market or cash holdings within the account), but you don't have to invest it all at once if you go with ETFs. Most Vanguard stock/index funds have a $3000+ minimum initial investment, but there's the STAR fund which requires $1000 to open. The STAR fund is a "fund of funds", giving some broad exposure to stocks but also maintaining a relatively high percentage of bonds (~62% stocks, 25% bonds, 13% other reserves). As someone else mentioned they also have their target retirement funds with lower minimums to open. As you contribute and build up the value of your holdings, you can look into other options for mutual funds (or just continue use Vanguard's ETFs if you start that way).

- Open a Schwab Roth IRA brokerage. Schwab also offers some no-commission ETFs, both their own and those provided by other investment companies. One nice thing about Schwab is that their own mutual funds have $100 minimum initial investments - you could start with something like their S&P index (SWPPX) then make regular dollar cost averaged contributions over time. Schwab's mutual funds have pretty low expense ratios, but I don't know how they stack up in terms of performance against similar funds. They also offer various mutual funds from other companies, some of which have no fee and no load, but those typically require higher minimums ($1000 to open, $500 to add).

- Open a Fidelity Roth IRA brokerage. Similar as the above - they offer their own ETFs as well as iShares ETFs commission-free (but you pay a fee if you sell commission-free ETFs within 30 days of buying those shares - shouldn't matter since you're thinking longer term and would sell/exchange/rebalance maybe 1-2 times per year). Fidelity's index/mutual funds seem to mostly have $2500 minimum investments even in IRA accounts, but again you'd have those plus some other no-fee, no-load non-Fidelity funds available down the road as you build up your holdings and seek to diversify/reallocate. And checking further, the brokerage also requires $2500 to open.

This is by no means comprehensive, but these might cover most of what you're generally seeking. Vanguard seems popular for starting out due to their many index fund/ETF options as well as low expense ratios. Schwab's mutual funds have really low minimum initial investments, and they have some commission-free ETFs as well. Fidelity's biggest advantage is probably offering commission-free ETFs from the relatively popular iShares. As mentioned above Vanguard will still require $3000 to open the brokerage account (Fidelity $2500). If that's not feasible then Schwab might be a good alternative, since they only require $1000 to open the brokerage itself (plus $100 minimums to open Schwab mutual funds and various no-fee, no-minimum ETFs).

For example, if you wanted to start with VTMSX but don't want to go all in with $3000 at once, the ETF equivalent would be VTI. You can see how their performance is identical since they're essentially the same index - one version is traded as a mutual fund, the other as an ETF.

ZlSYVps.png

If you went with Schwab, they have a total stock market index fund (SWTSX). Performance compared to VTSMX is nearly the same, but not quite.

 
Thanks for your input! I figured that would be the response I would get. What would be the best way to handle the money I would have allocated to the Roth throughout the rest of the tax year? Should I put that in my taxable account or my savings account? This holds my VGTSX shares and some VTSMX shares. I'm currently allocating 30% of my income for savings/investments and I am 27. Of that 30%, I allocated the appropriate percentage to max out my Roth for the tax year with monthly deposits and put the remaining towards buying more shares in my taxable account.

I would just put the excess towards a 401k, but I don't currently have one. I am only going to be with my employer for about another 6 months. I never enrolled in their 401k when I started since they didn't match any contributions and seemed lousy overall. I am definitely going to start a 401k with my next employer regardless though.

You have enough in savings, so invest. I'd say you might want to go ahead and start your 401K now and then roll it over when you leave your current employer. You say you're leaving this job in 6 months, how firm is this? If that 6 months turns into longer, you're losing the opportunity for further tax-advantaged retirement savings.

Either way, once you start that next job, go ahead and give priority to your 401K over outside investments unless you just need the flexibility that those investments provide (you can't touch [without penalty] your 401K funds unless you have a qualified need until you are 59.5) (however, your still have flexibility with the principal in your Roth).
 
I've got $10,000 in betterment with the "Build Wealth" option. 90%stocks and 10% bonds.

I'm adding $1,000 every month into it. The goal is to increase that number to $2,000 a month and have enough in 10 years to retire.

Smart or no?

Edit: to clarify, my emergency fund is currently $6,000. I thought about it the other day and decided to bring that up to $10,000 by the end of year.

January of 2016, I'll be able to start contributing $2000 a month into Betterment since I'll have a raise then and won't need to keep adding to my emergency fund.

This is also my plan.
I presume you are familiar with MMM?

If you have 'spare' 2 grand every month why do you need such a large emergency fund. We stash away 2.5k every month and recently decided 3k emergency fund is more than enough to hold us over if anything happens we just stop our contributions for a month. I cannot really see any emergency happening that could cost 10k which I would need literally instantly. Mind you we cannot be fired from one day to the next we have three months notice.
Have you considered dropping betterment to just do it yourself? Betterment will become increasingly expensive the larger your stash grows. And presuming you are just passively investing into index funds there is no real sorcery to it.
If you haven't you definitely should check out MMM and it's forum!
 

AP90

Member
S&P 500 futures up 3% lol.

Games will always be played. It is fun watching the headlines though.. I do not think we saw enough correction as of yet.

Love how the news has Jim Crammer on TV to quell fears at the start of the today show...
 

friday

Member
If you want to start with lower initial investments and work in your contributions, you have a few options:


Thanks, this is all good info. I actually started a Roth IRA with e-trade today since I already have a brokerage account with them. Figured I should keep it all in one place.

Quick question though, It seems I can trade all of these ETFs and mutual funds through any of my E-trade accounts (IRA and Brokerage), so what is the advantage of opening an account at Schwab or Vanguard if I can just trade their funds on another account?
 

TMC

Member
You have enough in savings, so invest. I'd say you might want to go ahead and start your 401K now and then roll it over when you leave your current employer. You say you're leaving this job in 6 months, how firm is this? If that 6 months turns into longer, you're losing the opportunity for further tax-advantaged retirement savings.

Either way, once you start that next job, go ahead and give priority to your 401K over outside investments unless you just need the flexibility that those investments provide (you can't touch [without penalty] your 401K funds unless you have a qualified need until you are 59.5) (however, your still have flexibility with the principal in your Roth).

Thanks again for your input. It is much appreciated.

My contract for my current position ends in December. My boss informed me that I will likely be around for 1-2 months after that, but that's about it.

I am also new to 401K's. Is it recommended to also invest in index funds like my Roth IRA and taxable account or do I just let the money sit similar to a savings account?
 
Thanks, this is all good info. I actually started a Roth IRA with e-trade today since I already have a brokerage account with them. Figured I should keep it all in one place.

Quick question though, It seems I can trade all of these ETFs and mutual funds through any of my E-trade accounts (IRA and Brokerage), so what is the advantage of opening an account at Schwab or Vanguard if I can just trade their funds on another account?

Commissions. I have Schwab accounts and have a list of funds and ETF's (many but not all Schwabs own stuff) that I don't pay commissions on to trade. If I trade a Vanguard fund, let's say, I generally would have to pay like $8.95 each time i sold or bought.
 
Thanks again for your input. It is much appreciated.

My contract for my current position ends in December. My boss informed me that I will likely be around for 1-2 months after that, but that's about it.

I am also new to 401K's. Is it recommended to also invest in index funds like my Roth IRA and taxable account or do I just let the money sit similar to a savings account?

Treat it like your Roth, though with an employer plan, you will have fewer overall fund selections. Hopefully, you will at least have enough broad index funds that you can achieve market-tracking performance at low cost.
 

TMC

Member
Treat it like your Roth, though with an employer plan, you will have fewer overall fund selections. Hopefully, you will at least have enough broad index funds that you can achieve market-tracking performance at low cost.

Thanks again Randolph!

It seems like right now is the perfect time to allocate that extra $3,000 between my Roth and my taxable account.
 

Vilam

Maxis Redwood
Bought into ETFs with about a third of what I have to invest during the last five minutes today. Feeling pretty good about that... For the time being.
 
So annoying, I want to buy in right now but I just started a new job and haven't got the payments sorted out so I don't want to dump money in before I'm sure.

Looking forward to doing it soon.
 

Wellington

BAAAALLLINNN'
This is why I check my balance only once a month, for the spreadsheet. Sometimes that's too often. We're in one of those times. :lol

Yeah I write it down once a month for my net worth tracking spreadsheet but it's been fun to check. The volatility must be great for the day traders out there though.
 

explodet

Member
Assuming you're allocated correctly, you're doing fine.
That's my uncertainty. After some time I'm going to re-evaluate my allocations because I don't believe it's currently optimal. The descriptions of the plan categories were kinda vague. Certainly not going to knee-jerk it though.

I think I just wanted to complain. My apologies.
 
My employer offers a 401k, but no matching (small charter school).

Their total fee is only 0.27% though. Is it worth investing in?

Yes. You might want to prioritize it after a Roth IRA, but the tax benefits will still be worth it for you to participate in your 401K unless your fund options are just abysmal. And if you leave that employer, you will be able to roll your account over into an IRA and get better fund options while keeping your tax advantaged status.
 
Yes. You might want to prioritize it after a Roth IRA, but the tax benefits will still be worth it for you to participate in your 401K unless your fund options are just abysmal. And if you leave that employer, you will be able to roll your account over into an IRA and get better fund options while keeping your tax advantaged status.

Is the Roth IRA really enough better than the 401k that it matters which I prioritize?
 

Mairu

Member
Got setup with my new job's 401k. No matching (sad but expected given startup) but the available funds are all Vanguard funds. Guess I'll transfer my previous company's 401k into this and move everything to 60/40 VTSAX/VTIAX.
 
Is the Roth IRA really enough better than the 401k that it matters which I prioritize?

The IRA is going to give you access to more fund options than any 401K could provide. Independent of everything else, that's a good motivator to give it priority, given that your 401K does not offer matching. Additionally, the Roth allows you to avoid paying taxes on gains when you retire, so you can withdraw your funds tax-free (but you pay taxes now before you put funds into it).

The question, then, is it worth it for you to pay taxes now or later. If you're a high income earner, you might want to defer them now because of your high marginal rate, which would suggest you prioritize an investment in a traditional 401K, but you inherently get less options when you do so. If you're a low income earner, you might want to pay taxes now at a lower marginal rate, which would mean you prioritize the Roth IRA and, secondly, a Roth 401K, if you have that option through your employer.

And some other folks in this thread would say ignore your income and just prioritize the Roth IRA up front.

Decide for yourself your priority, but yes, IRAs -- Roth or otherwise -- are going to be worth it for the options alone.
 
Got setup with my new job's 401k. No matching (sad but expected given startup) but the available funds are all Vanguard funds. Guess I'll transfer my previous company's 401k into this and move everything to 60/40 VTSAX/VTIAX.

Does your plan have any administrative fees coming off the top? Vanguard funds are good options to have, but you could just roll your old 401K into a Vanguard IRA and avoid your new 401K's fees, if they exist. Plus, that preserves your options should your new employer decide to change course and go with a less attractive plan in the future.
 

Husker86

Member
Obviously this might vary between jobs, but just curious if anyone knows:

For jobs that do 6 month matching (only depositing matching contributions every 6 months), do you forfeit any earned (but not yet paid out) matching contributions if you leave? So mine from January to June got contributed in August, and I left this month; will I be getting a matching contribution for July-August?

Again, I'm sure this isn't a solid rule for all companies; just curious. I'm going to rollover the account, but am wondering if I should wait. Even then, it's only 4 paychecks of matching so not an enormous amount.
 
My school had our retirement adviser drop in yesterday for a few hours to explain our benefits, and DAMNNNNN do I have a good pension.

If I stick with this job long term and throw any extra I can at my 401k as I go, I should be able to retire very comfortably at 58. Public employee ftw.

My online research shows that my state's pension is one of the best managed/funded in the nation as well, so it should be fairly secure.
 

QP3

Member
Thought I'd like to share with GAF a solid primer on Mutual & Index Funds:

Primer on Mutual Funds

Primer on Index Funds

Investing in Index Funds

I read the first 2, not the last one yet. So far I've found the information beneficial to me. Hope it is to you as well.

Those are some great articles, thanks for sharing. I am trying to get my friends into the mindset of the longterm as opposed to "get rich quick". We are early 20's. Ill be sure to share this with them.
 
Obviously this might vary between jobs, but just curious if anyone knows:

For jobs that do 6 month matching (only depositing matching contributions every 6 months), do you forfeit any earned (but not yet paid out) matching contributions if you leave? So mine from January to June got contributed in August, and I left this month; will I be getting a matching contribution for July-August?

Again, I'm sure this isn't a solid rule for all companies; just curious. I'm going to rollover the account, but am wondering if I should wait. Even then, it's only 4 paychecks of matching so not an enormous amount.

I wager that you'll just have to consult your employee handbook, so to speak, if one is available.

At my company, we have quarterly matching but no delay otherwise, and you do not have to be employed at the end of the quarter to receive your match. On the other hand, there is the yearly profit sharing contribution that isn't a match, it is delayed by three months, and you can leave your job during that three months and still get the contribution, the only provision is that you have to be employed through the end of the prior year (unless you have a qualified exception, such as reaching normal retirement age). So within my plan, there are different rules for different types of employer contributions. Your plan may have its own set of custom rules.
 

simplayer

Member
More short-medium term investing questions.

I plan on starting to look to buy a house in 4-5 years. All of my non-retirement savings is currently just sitting in a chequing account (besides some small allocation in company stock buys and RSUs). I'd like to get a better return on my money than what my bank account is currently giving me (0.08% or something I believe), but looking at even high interest savings accounts, the returns seem pretty piddly (1% or so). I'd rather not put the money into equities as the term seems too short to live through any ups and downs in the market, so I was looking at bond funds. The returns seem decent enough, but the stock price (VBTLX in this case) seems to be all over the place. I assume a good portion of the return is coming from dividends and not the stock price? With that in mind, how can I calculate the rolling average annual return over a 4-5 year period? I'd like to smooth out the bumps and get a sense of the volatility over my time horizon and a better sense of what the return rate might be.
 
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