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Hurricane Katrina Thread: Any LA Gaffers?
- Thread starter Fragamemnon
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JeffDowns said:
I can understand stealing food and water and clothing.
But they are looting bags, carts, trashcans full of jewelry, electronics merchandise, etc. Some of the videos are just appalling.
I'm sure it would happen in any major city after a disaster, but that's why I dislike big cities.. People have no sense of community. These people are stealing from some of the same companies that are spearheading the relief effort. And I'm sure there is widespread looting of private homes as well, which can never be justified.
Fragamemnon said:
CNN Newsnight starting at 10:21 PM EDT: the pump at the 17th Street area has apparently failed, and another levee in the city's eastern area may also fail shortly. Tulane had 200 critically ill patients evacuated after losing power, and officials still intend to clear the entire downtown facility.
Mississippi: CNN reports eighty percent of the state may have lost electrical power.
Teddman said:
ALL RESIDENTS ON THE EAST BANK OF ORLEANS AND JEFFERSON REMAINING IN THE METRO AREA ARE BEING TOLD TO EVACUATE AS EFFORTS TO SANDBAG THE LEVEE BREAK HAVE ENDED. THE PUMPS IN THAT AREA ARE EXPECTED TO FAIL SOON AND 9 FEET OF WATER IS EXPECTED IN THE ENTIRE EAST BANK. WITHIN THE NEXT 12-15 HOURS****
That's the bulletin. LA Governor also asked all residents of NO to leave and not come back for one month. They can use identification cards to come in and grab clothes soon, though.
you think this is bad in New Orleans, just think what it woulda' been like if Katrina had stayed at 175~184 MPH and the eye had swung more to the west, giving the city the full intensity of the right-front quadrant of the storm. The city would've been totally decimated, instead of what it is, "just" as massive disasterous mess. At least there still is a New Orleans left
Teddman said:
Contrary (and sadly, unfortunately) to what I thought, the levees were never repaired and more are on the verge of giving way. The generators that power the massive pumps for the levee system are either out of fuel, under water and inoperable, or overheated and burned out.
The water will continue to rise until it's level with Lake Pontchartrain.
Tommie Hu$tle
Member
ManaByte said:You don't even want to know the worst-case projections of what would happen if that Yellowstone caldera blows.
It wouldn't matter much becaue the vast majority of us wouldn't be around to figure it out anyways. But we are looking at the last throes of a city. As it was said before this would happen in any city anywhere in the world.
As for the looting. Does it really matter? In 9ft those TVs and baubbles won't do anyone much good.
pollo said:
Yes. I feel ghoulish waitng for the next drop of bad news.
TheKingsCrown
Banned
Unfortunately, you are very very correct. Given what levie breaks have done to the city, if the right front quadrant of Katrina hit NO, there would be but foundations of existence left there.
Teddman said:Damn, wish I'd visited New Orleans prior to this disaster. It's not going to be the same for a long time...
It may not ever be the same. Remember, the city is basically below sea level and the pumps that would normally be used to pump water are basically unusable.
Fragamemnon
Member
argon said:
Don't you understand? For a lot of these people, they think-and quite understandably-that there's NOT A COMMUNITY LEFT. They have none of the basic needs of food, water, and shelter, nor can the rule of law be enforced (and is thus meaningless).
When people cant' get food, can't get water, don't have anywhere to go but overcrowded shelters, things get desparate. It has nothing to do with people in big cities having no sense of community, and everything to do with the shock and enormity and the complete breakdown of society.
I agree with the other poster that fire is could become a real problem in the near future.
Tommie Hu$tle
Member
Another thing to add to Frag's statement is that the VAST majority of those still in NO are the most destitute anyways. Those that could afford to leave left long ago. You are looking at those with the least to lose and nothing to gain and nothing to stop them from acting on their most primal ugres. The situation is as about as bad as you can get, and will only get worse when what little food and drinking suppiles diminish from what they have.
whats worrying me is all these people roaming the streets... how are they going to inform these people about the evacuation plan? how are they going to make any kind of evacuation orderly enough to be effective? there is no communication anymore. i imagine they will work it out eventually but the lack of reliable communication mediums is going to slow this down for sure.
if the city is in absolute chaos, how do they get people to behave in a rational way? i imagine they would have to get the people of the city to gather together is some central place. how can they do that if they have to wade through 5 feet of water.. and the water is going to keep rising? i hope they have a workable plan to get these people out of there.
if the city is in absolute chaos, how do they get people to behave in a rational way? i imagine they would have to get the people of the city to gather together is some central place. how can they do that if they have to wade through 5 feet of water.. and the water is going to keep rising? i hope they have a workable plan to get these people out of there.
Now I'm no engineer but in some ways having a lake to work with may make getting people out of new orleans easier. You could send out giant floating platforms and perhaps even make one of those floating bridges like they use for military purposes... although those floating bridges are more then likely not intended to stretch over more then a kilometer.
I'm thinking it'll be 5 years before this city is actually functioning again, atleast 8 months before any sort of rebuilding can really start and 2 months before they can get the water out. But atleast the historic sections are still standing. even if they are under water.
I'm thinking it'll be 5 years before this city is actually functioning again, atleast 8 months before any sort of rebuilding can really start and 2 months before they can get the water out. But atleast the historic sections are still standing. even if they are under water.
Fragamemnon
Member
Tommie Hu$tle said:
Having worked in the poorest, most destitute part of New Orleans during my teen years, I can't emphasize enough the truth to the above statement. Anyone who could afford to get out left Sunday. NO has a ton of people in poverty and destitution, who were living in rickety homes which were likely destroyed in the storm.
I bet a lot of the items that are being looted that aren't basic living essentials will be bartered for those goods. This will only get worse as the living essentials become more and more scarce.
Tommie Hu$tle
Member
Krowley said:
There is no plan they are flying by the seat of their pants just like we are by watching the only thing that anyone can do is wait for the waters to receede and try to get at whomever is left.
Frag: Having lived in NO myself I know exactly what you are talking about I would wish it upon my worst emeny to be in NO overnight right now. NO is one of the most predatory towns I have even lived in and that's on a regular day. I fully expect NO to attempt to reclaim title of murder captial of the the world once again.
This is nothing short of a major U.S. catastrophe. This is one of those things that makes some people question their faith in God.
I am speechless at the damage done by this hurricane. All I can say is my hearts go out to the victims.
I fear the US will never be the same because of this disaster
I am speechless at the damage done by this hurricane. All I can say is my hearts go out to the victims.
I fear the US will never be the same because of this disaster
Fragamemnon
Member
ManaByte said:
The Army Corps of Engineers can do anything given enough time, money, and manpower. In time we certainly have the means to rebuild New Orleans, but I sure hope we ask ourselves the question of whether it is worth rebuilding the whole thing, just to risk it happening again later.
Fragamemnon said:
I don't blame the poor for not leaving.. It really is expensive, especially with all the price gouging and shit going on. But the city and state should have provided free busing days beforehand, to help people the poor evacuate. Not to prevent looting, but to protect their lives. Lets remember that it could have been a whole lot worse.. If the hurricane's trajectory didn't suddenly veer to the north at the last minute, they could have all been dead.
The authorities should have had a more organized plan in place. They must have known something like this would have happened sooner or later. I just think they were stunned by the severity.
On Larry King tonight some guy said they shouldn't even bother with rebuilding New Orleans and Kathleen stopped him and said its not an option, New Orleans has too much history to not rebuild it. Construction is southeastern LA is really tight with developers fighting over every piece of usable land as it is.
Also there are reports of mass amounts of National Guard and police marching up and down Canal St. to try and stop looting.
Also there are reports of mass amounts of National Guard and police marching up and down Canal St. to try and stop looting.
argon said:
They didn't know it was a severe hurricane until a day beforehand. Read the first part of the thread and you'll get an idea how quickly this storm turned deadly. This storm actually passed OVER Florida and did little damage.
Does anyone else have Led Zeppelin's "when the levee breaks" stuck in their head? I feel kinda ghoulish, but it's been stuck in my head all day now.
Fragamemnon
Member
ManaByte said:
Note that it will cost many, many tens billions of dollars, require thousands of people, and could take years to restore the city as it was.
Tommie Hu$tle
Member
Fragamemnon said:
Logically we should just pack up and go home. The cost to rebuild with the clear and present risk that this will happen again in the near future with the increased intensity of hurricanes is not worth it. But, I don't know if the US is mentally prepared to give up a major city as culturally rich and NO. It just depends on how bad it gets.
This is insane.... and the worst part is that, in my opinion, I've completely blown this off as just another hurricane until I came into this thread and saw everything. Up here in Michigan, most people are seeing this as jsut another hurricane and really aren't grasping that this has, for all intents and purposes, wiped New Orleans completely off the map.
I mean... if this doesn't make people feel weak as human beings, I don't know what will.
I mean... if this doesn't make people feel weak as human beings, I don't know what will.
Nerevar said:
Right, but given the particular circumstances of their city, they should have been more alert. Although I doubt the public would have really taken any early warnings to heart.
As a below-sea-level bowl surrounded by water on both sides, the city is a total death trap for hurricanes. Even a direct hit from a category 1 or 2 could break a levee, or damage a pump, who knows.
Mayor Ray Nagin on CNN right now:
City is safe, significant number of people still in the city. People are out looking for food. Plenty of law enforcement in the city, main duty is search and rescue. 3500 more National Guard on their way to New Orleans. Over next 12 - 15 hours an addition of 9 to 15 feet of water, dry areas will be not be dry in the morning.
More coming...
City is safe, significant number of people still in the city. People are out looking for food. Plenty of law enforcement in the city, main duty is search and rescue. 3500 more National Guard on their way to New Orleans. Over next 12 - 15 hours an addition of 9 to 15 feet of water, dry areas will be not be dry in the morning.
More coming...
VisionaryQuest0
Member
gigapower said:
Err...the city's safe?
Continue with Mayor Ray Nagin:
Significant amount of resources trying to get water and food to shelters, hospitals, and hotels. Main issue is with people on the loose, people not in shelters. Thinking of moving people to Baton Rouge from Superdome. People inside the Superdome information starved, need to find a way to get people info in Superdome. Could stay in Superdome up to a week as long as water stays below 2nd level and generator stays working. Admits to dead bodies floating in the water, atleast know of 30 apartment buildings collapsed. Thinks city could be back up and running in as soon as 12 weeks.
Significant amount of resources trying to get water and food to shelters, hospitals, and hotels. Main issue is with people on the loose, people not in shelters. Thinking of moving people to Baton Rouge from Superdome. People inside the Superdome information starved, need to find a way to get people info in Superdome. Could stay in Superdome up to a week as long as water stays below 2nd level and generator stays working. Admits to dead bodies floating in the water, atleast know of 30 apartment buildings collapsed. Thinks city could be back up and running in as soon as 12 weeks.
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