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[ConfusingJazz]

Lack of power and resources is no excuse to not maintain the law.

It is when the cops have little to no water, no food, and can't sleep. They have no backup, they can't travel alone, they can't use cars, and they can really only secure their own precients by using sniper positions on the roof. They can't do shit.

 

[kablooey]

A cop that left on Friday morning != a cop that left before Sunday or Monday. No one knows for sure how many police officers fall into the latter.

Why wasn't martial law imposed earlier?



Lack of power and resources is no excuse to not maintain the law. It's funny how i get scolded earler in this thread for saying its a difficult situation (in response to why the federal response is so slow) ... then when I ask why the police have failed ... I get .. "well, its a difficult situation".


Nice.

There's a difference though. The federal gov't has the resources to fund anything it wants, more or less, regardless of whether a situation is difficult or not. The local and state police are beholden to the funding they can receive from the federal level. Once again, please stop trying to defend this administration. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

 

[LakeEarth]

www.cnn.com

Convoy of Hope? Convoy of fucking Hope? Does every fucking thing have to have some positive name to it? Why don't they call it "Convoy of about fucking time".

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

Lack of power and resources is no excuse to not maintain the law.

Lack of power and resources is an EXCELLENT excuse to not maintian the law. What are these guys running on Scooby Snacks?

Police outnumbered and outgunned

Overnight, police snipers were stationed on the roof of their precinct, trying to protect it from gunmen roaming through the city, CNN's Chris Lawrence reported.

One New Orleans police sergeant compared the situation to Somalia and said officers were outnumbered and outgunned by gangs in trucks.

"It's a war zone, and they're not treating it like one," he said, referring to the federal government. (Watch the video report on explosions and gunfire -- 2:12)

The officer hitched a ride to Baton Rouge Friday morning, after working 60 hours straight in the flooded city. He has not decided whether he will return.

He broke down in tears when he described the deaths of his fellow officers, saying many had drowned doing their jobs. Other officers have turned in their badges as the situation continues to deteriorate.

In one incident, the sergeant said gunmen fired rifles and AK-47s at the helicopters flying overhead.

He said he saw bodies riddled with bullet holes, and the top of one man's head completely shot off.

Lt. Gen Steven Blum of the National Guard said that as many as 2,600 National Guard troops were expected to arrive in Louisiana Friday to join the nearly 2,000 who went in Thursday.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

I might be naive but i am just wondering at times like these why cant the GOVt send out a hundred of those HUGE planes and carry tanks and shit and just fill them up with ppl ?

 

[wobedraggled]

Oil Spill in the Mississippi SE of NO. ~2,000,000 barrels worth leaking.

Anyone know who's company the oil belongs too, I need to find out.

 

[Red Scarlet]

Convoy of Hope? Convoy of fucking Hope? Does every fucking thing have to have some positive name to it? Why don't they call it "Convoy of about fucking time".

Convoy of better late than never? I like your choice better, though.

wobe: no idea. Nothing else has been said yet, I don't think. They're interviewing Laura Bush right now. She seems to be more upset than the politicians interviewed. She should cut it short and help the people out behind her, though.

 

[Y2Kev]

Speaking of rose colored glasses, Laura Bush is spinning better than her husband ever could.

 

[xsarien]

A cop that left on Friday morning != a cop that left before Sunday or Monday. No one knows for sure how many police officers fall into the latter.

Why wasn't martial law imposed earlier?



Lack of power and resources is no excuse to not maintain the law. It's funny how i get scolded earler in this thread for saying its a difficult situation (in response to why the federal response is so slow) ... then when I ask why the police have failed ... I get .. "well, its a difficult situation".


Nice.

I can say a lot of things right now. Most of them very-not-nice, but I think I'm better than that.

So I'll just leave it at that your comparisons are disingenuous, your armchair quarterbacking dreadful, and your complete lack of empathy...telling. Exactly how are these officers supposed to keep order when nearly every one of their resources - back up or otherwise - is submerged underwater? Exactly how is it supposed to be easy for them to replenish these supplies with access to the city all but cut off and rescue/supply drops being attacked?

Go down there yourself if you think you've got it all sorted out. They could use the help.

I might be naive but i am just wondering at times like these why cant the GOVt send out a hundred of those HUGE planes and carry tanks and shit and just fill them up with ppl ?

They'd need a place to land, they'd likely cause riots around the planes as people fight for seats, and they'd need to find a place to put them.

Granted, it's a good idea, but it should've been done before the hurricane hit.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

I might be naive but i am just wondering at times like these why cant the GOVt send out a hundred of those HUGE planes and carry tanks and shit and just fill them up with ppl ?

I don't get why they can't get a cruise/naval ship, equipped with plenty of medical supplies and living room, to come close to shore so the people can be moved there, but I'm sure there's a good reason why this isn't feasible (not enough boats to move the people out to the ship, no clear way to the ocean, too far to travel, etc).

 

[themadcowtipper]

More Random Pics of the Coast

This is what they do when they find the dead....Mark the house

All that remains of this beach home

The Chevron refinery in Pascagoula flooded still

 

[The Chosen One]

Sorry if this was already posted, but this is a pretty emotional radio interview from the Mayor of New Orleans. You must listen to it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9173940/site/newsweek/

He also gives a plausible theory for the crazed people with guns.

 

[Red Scarlet]

A hospital ship will arrive in mid September.

 

[Outdoor Miner]

Speaking of rose colored glasses, Laura Bush is spinning better than her husband ever could.

Laura Bush:"Our federal goverment is doing the best it can."

20 secs later

Laura Bush:"The response has been unacceptable, the government can do better than it has."

*Sal perplexed*

 

[xexex]

BREAKING NEWS
Senator David Vitter thinks there could be 10,000+ killed in Louisiana alone
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050902/pl_afp/usweatherdeaths

 

[sprsk]

:0


its 9/11...

TIMES A THOUSAND

 

[Lardbutt]

I hope Nagin doesn't lose his job for going off on the news, the Governors and Bush. I applaud him for having the strength to step up, and realize that in times of natural disaster you do NOT FUCK AROUND. I can't believe the speeches, asskissing, and various other retarded rhetoric I've seen. It's unacceptable. Nagin's determination and leadership makes Guliani look like a turd.

Are u kidding? Sounds to me that Nagin is just trying to cover his own ass. He has as much to blame in this tragedy, as everyone else.

Since we're all playing the "throw the blame around and see where it sticks" game, I'll ask this about Nagin:

Why was there no plan on how to evacuate all the poor/old/disabled people who had no cars or other means to evacuate in the case of a disaster?

Why were people told to go to the Superdome, when there was obviously no plan on how to get them out of there???

You can't blame all of this on the federal govt...a lot of the problems now could have been avoided if the CITY OF NEW ORLEANS itself had better planning/preparation...

 

[quin]

Are u kidding? Sounds to me that Nagin is just trying to cover his own ass. He has as much to blame in this tragedy, as everyone else.

Since we're all playing the "throw the blame around and see where it sticks" game, I'll ask this about Nagin:

Why was there no plan on how to evacuate all the poor/old/disabled people who had no cars or other means to evacuate in the case of a disaster?

Why were people told to go to the Superdome, when there was obviously NO FUCKING CLUE on how to get them out of there???

You can't blame all of this on the federal govt...a lot of the problems now could have been avoided if the CITY OF NEW ORLEANS itself had better planning/preparation...

I don't think most people are ONLY blaming the federal government. When they are mad is because after it was found out that city of new orleans was screwed the government did nothing.

And about the superdome. IT was a last resort. Home many lives do you think were saved from it? i'm guessing over 10000 easy!

 

[boredJonathan]

please show me the part of the federal budget where they cut funding to the maintenence of the levees, pumps, and damns in NO. please someone do so, so i can say "ok i was wrong about posting here that: FUNDING FOR THE LEVEES WAS NOT CUT BY THE GOVERNMENT!!"

Also from (written May 13, 2005):
http://www.mvn.usace.army.mil/pao/visitor/lkpon1.asp

IMPACTS OF BUDGET SHORTFALL. In Orleans Parish, two major pump stations are threatened by hurricane storm surges. Major contracts need to be awarded to provide fronting protection for them. Also, several levees have settled and need to be raised to provide the design protection. The current funding shortfalls in fiscal year 2005 and fiscal year 2006 will prevent the Corps from addressing these pressing needs.

Well that about wraps up that little debate. Can we get the final statement from you now blah so that we can move on to the next one?

 

[ToxicAdam]

You can't blame all of this on the federal govt...a lot of the problems now could have been avoided if the CITY OF NEW ORLEANS itself had better planning/preparation...

But, but .. it was TOO HARD for them. You don't understand how DIFFICULT it is.

Why isn't Biloxi and Gulfport experiencing the same kinds of problems with looting and shooting? What is the difference?

 

[blahness]

Well that about wraps up that little debate. Can we get the final statement from you now blah so that we can move on to the next one?

certainly

ok i was wrong about posting here that: FUNDING FOR THE LEVEES WAS NOT CUT BY THE GOVERNMENT!!



From what i could find in my own reading; The ACOE had a serious problem with mis-apporpriating funding from the government and had a huge backlog of projects. This is cited as one of the main reason projects faced budget cuts. The real question is why this specific project had its funds cut? Who is responsible for determining how much money goes to what project?

 

[themadcowtipper]

BREAKING NEWS
Senator David Vitter thinks there could be 10,000+ killed in Louisiana alone
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050902/pl_afp/usweatherdeaths

And MSNBC is reporting 1000s have died in Biloxi Alone so far...for those dont know Biloxi only has a population of about 50,000... this is getting worse by the moment for both these states...

 

[Lardbutt]

I don't think most people are ONLY blaming the federal government. When they are mad is because after it was found out that city of new orleans was screwed the government did nothing.

That's not what I'm seeing here. Most people are jsut blaming Bush and the feds. Nagin has made mistakes but no one will call him out on it, and I doubt neither will he admit to any of the mistakes he made. At least the feds are starting to admit that they made mistakes.

 

[VisionaryQuest0]

But, but .. it was TOO HARD for them. You don't understand how DIFFICULT it is.

Why isn't Biloxi and Gulfport experiencing the same kinds of problems with looting and shooting? What is the difference?

New Orleans is a way bigger city.

 

[Red Scarlet]

But, but .. it was TOO HARD for them. You don't understand how DIFFICULT it is.

Why isn't Biloxi and Gulfport experiencing the same kinds of problems with looting and shooting? What is the difference?

Probably has to do with no stores being there to loot/get guns from. And lower #'s of people being trapped in flooding buildings with no supplies, with nowhere to go to get out of the worsening situation.

This is a NATIONAL crisis, not a local one. It is too hard for the Mayor of a city to handle, when NATIONAL aid is needed.

 

[Lardbutt]

Nagin's determination and leadership makes Guliani look like a turd.

At least Guiliani was out there on the streets of NYC coordinating the rescue efforts. Where is Nagin? I only see him doing interviews on TV.

 

[themadcowtipper]

Originally Posted by ToxicAdam:
But, but .. it was TOO HARD for them. You don't understand how DIFFICULT it is.

Why isn't Biloxi and Gulfport experiencing the same kinds of problems with looting and shooting? What is the difference?

The looting is taking place in Ms, but people are being arrested....they are holding the people arrested in an alterntive school off hwy 49

Probably has to do with no stores being there to loot/get guns from. And lower #'s of people being trapped in flooding buildings with no supplies, with nowhere to go to get out of the worsening situation.

Not true plenty of store are getting looted as well as people trying to steal gas from the News Vans. Ms unlike New Orleans still has a police force and are using a school to house the people arrested...Pawns shops got robbed just like New Orleans with weapons took...

 

[AB 101]

Spin, politics, blame game, Monday morning quarterbacking.

Glad to see the american spirit is alive and well.

 

[quin]

That's not what I'm seeing here. Most people are jsut blaming Bush and the feds. Nagin has made mistakes but no one will call him out on it, and I doubt neither will he admit to any of the mistakes he made. At least the feds are starting to admit that they made mistakes.

a lot of hindsight can be said about any situation but the fact is that when the region couldn't help itself the federal government should have been there to help. there should be no questions about that

 

[Diablos]

At least Guiliani was out there on the streets of NYC coordinating the rescue efforts. Where is Nagin? I only see him doing interviews on TV.

He's TRYING to coordinate the rescue efforts but no one listened to him.
And he plainly stated that he has been out there and has seen everything.
What the hell do you think that means?

The media is too busy interviewing senators and the like. If they want to talk to anyone else, up until a day or two ago, it was just survivors (and for an understandable reason).

 

[sonicfan]

Are u kidding? Sounds to me that Nagin is just trying to cover his own ass. He has as much to blame in this tragedy, as everyone else.

Since we're all playing the "throw the blame around and see where it sticks" game, I'll ask this about Nagin:

Why was there no plan on how to evacuate all the poor/old/disabled people who had no cars or other means to evacuate in the case of a disaster?

Why were people told to go to the Superdome, when there was obviously NO FUCKING CLUE on how to get them out of there???

You can't blame all of this on the federal govt...a lot of the problems now could have been avoided if the CITY OF NEW ORLEANS itself had better planning/preparation...

The primary responability for emergency situations like this is first state/local, then the feds. People seem to think the President can just say the word and take over, the whole operation, but he can't, the state and local authorities have to ask for it.

I'm cutting the mayor some slack, partly because he is somewhat new, and what he has had to work with. But the pathetic excuse for a governor they have down there in La is #1 in my book. But its the entire political culture in the state that is as much to blame for what has transpired.

How the hell can you let a fleet of Buses sit around and let get trashed when you knew you were going to need to get people out?

Link

 

[dskillzhtown]

Spin, politics, blame game, Monday morning quarterbacking.

Glad to see the american spirit is alive and well.

:lol yup...things are back to normal everywhere except for the places hit with the hurricane.

 

[LakeEarth]

The CNN headline has been changed to "Help at last!", I have no problems with that.

 

[AB 101]

At least Guiliani was out there on the streets of NYC coordinating the rescue efforts. Where is Nagin? I only see him doing interviews on TV.

Well, 9/11 was limited to a confined area in NY City (albeit horrific).

And Giuliani was not up to his ass (or neck) in sewage either.

The flooding has made it difficult logistically.


NO's reputation of crime is living up to itself.

 

[Matrix]

He's TRYING to coordinate the rescue efforts but no one listened to him.
And he plainly stated that he has been out there and has seen everything.
What the hell do you think that means?

The media is too busy interviewing senators and the like. If they want to talk to anyone else, up until a day or two ago, it was just survivors (and for an understandable reason).

So how does all of that make Guliani look like a turd compared to this man?

 

[Diablos]

Because he's not only capabile of giving credit where credit is due, but also has the balls to let people know what pisses him off. We need more honesty and and less bullshitting and political correctness in politics today, and that's exactly what he did.

 

[xexex]

The primary responability for emergency situations like this is first state/local, then the feds. People seem to think the President can just say the word and take over, the whole operation, but he can't, the state and local authorities have to ask for it.

I'm cutting the mayor some slack, partly because he is somewhat new, and what he has had to work with. But the pathetic excuse for a governor they have down there in La is #1 in my book.

I agree on that. even when Anderson Cooper of all people was getting angry at her, because of her total lack of competence, all she could say, is THANK YOU, I WANT TO THANK YOU, I WANT TO THANK THE PRESIDENT, I WANT TO THANK.....

she should be removed from office and any control over the situation in that state immediately.

she's not fit to run a school PTA much less a whole state in complete devestation.

 

[Red Scarlet]

77230

Astrodome Zipcode.

 

[AB 101]

LA has not had a very good run of Governors over the years.

 

[DarienA]

I agree on that. even when Anderson Cooper of all people was getting angry at her, because of her total lack of competence, all she could say, is THANK YOU, I WANT TO THANK YOU, I WANT TO THANK THE PRESIDENT, I WANT TO THANK.....

she should be removed from office and any control over the situation in that state immediately.

she's not fit to run a school PTA much less a whole state in complete devestation.

I thought that was a LA Senator he was getting pissed at?

 

[Lardbutt]

For Red Mercury and others:

The Corps' New Orleans district in 2003 spent about $409 million on construction contracts, dredging and maintenance for the state's waterways, real estate purchases, private sector design contracts and in-house expenditures, according to the Corps. That more than doubles the $200 million the district spent in 1991.
Presumably those sentences were omitted because they do not support the notion that the Army Corps of Engineeers in New Orleans was starved for funds.

New York Times:

No one expected that weak spot to be on a canal that, if anything, had received more attention and shoring up than many other spots in the region. It did not have broad berms, but it did have strong concrete walls.
Shea Penland, director of the Pontchartrain Institute for Environmental Studies at the University of New Orleans, said that was particularly surprising because the break was "along a section that was just upgraded."

"It did not have an earthen levee," Dr. Penland said. "It had a vertical concrete wall several feel thick."

And finally, The Chicago Tribune:

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers said Thursday that a lack of funding for hurricane-protection projects around New Orleans did not contribute to the disastrous flooding that followed Hurricane Katrina.
In a telephone interview with reporters, corps officials said that although portions of the flood-protection levees remain incomplete, the levees near Lake Pontchartrain that gave way--inundating much of the city--were completed and in good condition before the hurricane.

However, they noted that the levees were designed for a Category 3 hurricane and couldn't handle the ferocious winds and raging waters from Hurricane Katrina, which was a Category 4 storm when it hit the coastline. The decision to build levees for a Category 3 hurricane was made decades ago based on a cost-benefit analysis.

But of course, I don't think any of this would make any difference to Bush haters.

 

[Red Scarlet]

I thought that was a LA Senator he was getting pissed at?

It was.

Coast Guard has rescued 5500 by helicopter, 1600 by boat.

 

[demon]

However, they noted that the levees were designed for a Category 3 hurricane and couldn't handle the ferocious winds and raging waters from Hurricane Katrina, which was a Category 4 storm when it hit the coastline. The decision to build levees for a Category 3 hurricane was made decades ago based on a cost-benefit analysis.

Just peachy.

 

[sonicfan]

It was.

And she is the daughter of the former mayor of NO. Her DNA is deep with corruption.

 

[boredJonathan]

How the hell can you let a fleet of Buses sit around and let get trashed when you knew you were going to need to get people out?

Link

And just where do you suppose they could have hid those busses to avoid a freaking hurricane? Lets also not forget that even if they attempted to drive them out of town or something ridiculous like that, the roads were parkinglots basically from the evacuation order.

 

[Matrix]

Because he's not only capabile of giving credit where credit is due, but also has the balls to let people know what pisses him off. We need more honesty and and less bullshitting and political correctness in politics today, and that's exactly what he did.

So in the eyes of Diablos if one mayor has the balls to show anger in an interview that makes another Mayor who went through hell and helped a city stay together in a time of crisis a turd compared to the other one.


Classic.

 

[sonicfan]

And just where do you suppose they could have hid those busses to avoid a freaking hurricane? Lets also not forget that even if they attempted to drive them out of town or something ridiculous like that, the roads were parkinglots basically from the evacuation order.

How about at the Superdome? Where you are telling thousands to go, but have no plan on how to get them out?

 

[Red Scarlet]

Sri Lanka has given 25k to the Red Cross..maybe that's what the other countries should do as when the US govt wasn't accepting help.

NBC is going to host a fundraiser/telethon tonight? or next Friday.

El Salvador has offered help to the police in NO.

Rice stated that "no help that will assist will be refused".

 

[quin]

So in the eyes of Diablos if one mayor has the balls to show anger in an interview that makes another Mayor who went through hell and helped a city stay together in a time of crisis a turd compared to the other one.


Classic.

not defending anyone here but how can the mayor of New Orleans help people stay together? There are no communications, you can't get to half the city. No offense to anyone but i don't think you can compare the two mayors with the two situations

 

[themadcowtipper]

Europe to send emergency oil to U.S
Sep 02 1:35 PM US/Eastern

By Caroline Jacobs

PARIS (Reuters) - Europe will dip into its emergency stocks of gasoline to help the United States through an energy crisis triggered by Hurricane Katrina smashing into Gulf Coast refiners, EU governments said on Friday.

France, Germany, Spain and Italy declared they were ready to send fuel across the Atlantic in an operation coordinated by the West's energy watchdog, the International Energy Agency (IEA).

The Paris-based IEA announced its members would release two million barrels per day (bpd) of oil over an initial period of 30 days.

About half that will be gasoline from European refiners that will roughly match output lost from the Gulf Coast's battered refineries. The remainder will be crude from U.S. reserves.

EU nations have watched in horror as the world's richest country struggles with the aftermath of Katrina. Thousands are feared dead and troops in the flooded city of New Orleans have been told to shoot-to-kill to crack down on looting.

Gasoline prices have soared by nearly a fifth over the past week and President George W. Bush has urged Americans to go easy on fuel. Unlike the IEA, the United States has only emergency reserves of crude and a small stockpile of heating oil.

"It's self-evident that we support the American bid," German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder told a news conference in Berlin.

France echoed Schroeder's remarks: "This request is consistent with efforts for solidarity with the American people," the Industry Ministry said in a statement.

But Europe's pledge of gasoline may carry a political price for Washington. Differences over trade and foreign policy have strained relations between the United States and some EU member states including Germany and France.

Speaking at a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Wales, EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana said: "Whatever the United States asks for they will be given."

IEA TO MAKE FORMAL REQUEST FOR OIL

A Spanish official told Reuters the IEA had contacted Madrid on Thursday and indicated there would be a formal request for oil on Friday. Spain wanted a "balanced proposal" involving all IEA members - 26 industrialized nations including Japan.

"We are waiting (for the IEA request) and I think we will tell them 'yes'," a spokesman at Spain's Industry Ministry said.

British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw told a news conference it was up to each country to respond to the best of its ability. But he did not say whether Britain would release any oil.

Crude oil prices have hit levels unseen in real terms since 1980 - the year of the Iran-Iraq war and a year after the Iranian revolution that choked off supply lines.

Prices fell sharply on Friday on news that Europe was riding to the aid of the United States. Gasoline also eased.

But European oil will take at least 10 days to reach U.S. shores and tanker space is in short supply with many commercial ships already under charter and crossing the Atlantic.

The Paris-based IEA declined to confirm it would release oil to the United States. "We're still consulting with all our members and the damage assessment is still going on," an IEA spokeswoman said on Friday.

EU members Germany, France, Spain and Italy have substantial emergency reserves. France expected to provide about 92,000 barrels per day and Spain said it would release 70,000 bpd.

The IEA last dipped into its emergency reserves in 1991 when a U.S.-led coalition ejected Iraqi troops from Kuwait. The agency, created after the 1973-74 oil crisis to protect consumers, must hold stocks of 90 days of net imports.

(Additional reporting by Juan Navarro and Emma Ross-Thomas in Madrid, Dave Graham in Berlin, Rachel Sanderson in Rome, Emmanuel Jarry and Swaha Pattanaik in Paris, Chris Baltimore in Washington and Pieter Nielsen in Brussels)

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/02/MTFH67316_2005-09-02_17-43-06_BAU250357.html