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Hurricane Katrina Thread: Any LA Gaffers?
- Thread starter Fragamemnon
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The Chosen One
Member
Lardbutt said:
Sorry, that doesn't cut it.
If a house is on fire and a man is stuck but doesn't want to leave, it doesn't matter if we're a free country or not, a fireman is still going to try to rescue his ass from the burning house. Even if he has to do it by force. This happens all the time.
Our government has a responsibility to protect its citizens. If a large category 5 storm is sitting off-shore and a group of citizens are in immanent danger but cannot evacuate by their own means, then it should be the government's responsibility to transport those people to a safer location. If Cuba can evacuate 1.5 million people, why can't we evacuate several hundred thousand? It has nothing to do with freedom, it has everything do with protecting our fellow Americans even if their poor.
If we thought of this, then it would have been a lot more appealing for the poor people in New Orleans to evacuate as well. It's funny how a lot of people act like this situation was impossible to avoid. But if a small island like Cuba (supposedly inferior to the US) can take a direct hit from a category 5 hurricane and not have a single death, then obviously it's ridiculous that we're having thousands of deaths considering the vast resources we have.
From evacuation to relief response time, it's all been utterly disgraceful. Sorry that's not an exaggeration.
TheKingsCrown
Banned
The mandatory evacuation came under 20 hours before the storm hit. They should have started it much earlier and should have had a plan to bus people out.
I've said this before and I know it's been discussed to death... but I'm sitting here watching a newscast and it's like I'm pissed off all over again as it reminds me.... it takes 2-3 f'n days to get support to our own people right on our own US continental f'n soil?
That's some serious bullshit.
That's some serious bullshit.
TheKingsCrown
Banned
Does anyone have a good link to a complete discussion on the speed of foreign relief, and the offers that we have and have not accepted? Thanks.
themadcowtipper
Smells faintly of rancid stilton.
I just got back from the Ms Gulf Coast. I went to check on my house and family that did not leave. First off all my family is alive. We left from Tampa on Friday night, we brought a Uhaul filled with supplies and 80 gallons of gas. Gas supplies was short most place in Fl had a $35 dollar limit and only had super premeuim left Al had no gas at the parts we checked.... When we got to the Ms Boarder line we were worried they would not let us inbecause we saw signs that the boarder was closed, but we had not problems getting in at all. We saw tons of Uhauls carrying stuff to people tags from Ney York and Maine... all over the Us...no national Guards or fema trucks though. My aunt in uncle lost everything there house was in Biloxi,(just a slab left) but they were staying at My uncle in laws moms house at the time also in Biloxi. That house is two stories high and the water came up to my aunt ands uncle's neck in the attic but it only lasted about 30 seconds and then it went down. I went through Biloxi, Gulfport, Waveland and Pass Christian checking on family and they were atleast alive. Droped off the supplies and took tons of pics, I will post them later... I dont even want to look at them right 2 depressing. I'm going back next week to help my family rebuild. My house has some really bad damage but liveable. No power yet at any the places I went.Right now I'm tired and will post more later about what I saw when I post the pics.
Dan said:
What the fuck she did go and say that for. If the victims just wait, someone else will help you, because your government, which is in a better position to help than anyone, won't do it right, is that what she means?
---
The L.A. Times on parents and children in New Orleans. "They were holding hands. Three of the children were about 2 years old, and one was wearing only diapers. A 3-year-old girl, who wore colorful barrettes on the ends of her braids, had her 14-month-old brother in tow. The 6-year-old spoke for all of them, and he told rescuers his name was Deamonte Love."
He held their lives in his tiny hands.
TheKingsCrown
Banned
What do people believe will be the true political fallout from this disaster? Will it ricochet to the top of our government in significant ways?
TheKingsCrown said:
In a month, I guess we'll have a better idea. But the apparent vanguards of public opinion in the press seem, at least in some cases, pissed off. Livid as all hell. Bush has to limit the damage done throughout the United States to his reputation, and has to worry very much at the pity and indignation seen from foreign electorates. And with the call for congressional inquiries, he'll have to do better than with the 9/11 Commission if he wants any respite.
The more dead bodies the cameras catch (BBC, CNN et al), the more it looks like nothing was done to help. We're already seeing this happening, and some survivors still claim people are being left in their homes, in apparently accessible locations. "More guns than doctors" is a phrase starting to come out of the forgotten corners of New Orleans. The more this persists, the more problems everyone will have.
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http://www.pollingreport.com/disasters.htm
EDIT: Looks like we have a preliminary answer, which shows a divided response. But this survey was given to only 500 people, which seems low. The poll was conducted on September 2nd.
TheKingsCrown
Banned
Interesting..
The Chosen One
Member
ToxicAdam said:
Why?
You're saying our country doesn't have the resources to evacuate a city?
TheKingsCrown said:
Given that we suffer from a largely apathetic public with a short-term memory, and those that turn to vote are increasingly religious communities being mobilized by the right, I suspect that since most people are currently holding the federal government accountable (although the latest word is Rove's new play is to trickle down blame to the state and local officials, namely Nagin and Landreau, both Democrats) any ramifications will occur on that level. Given that Bush is the primary visible figure of the federal government and isn't up for re-election, I suspect Republicans will simply cash in on whatever catastrophe strikes in the next 3 years and attempt to further woo the effective far right religious base. Given that most people don't even know their own senators of congressmen, I see little impact there, save for perhaps on local issues near the time of election. Currently the media is doing a fairly miserable job at connecting the dots, so I don't expect people to do the homework themselves.
TheKingsCrown said:
Well it should, and for once it actually could. This time it is blatantly obvious that the response was too slow by a matter of days, the whole world can see it. Governments won't say anything, but people and the media will and already are. We know from experience of previous disasters that responding quickly is essential, the first 48 or 72 hours is crucial. At the moment the US government is fending off criticism by trying to fob off responsibility to the local authorities. However if in a week a two it comes out that the death toll is, say 50,000(God forbid) then:
a) it'll be indisputible that the president should have taken charge of the situation from day one.
b) it'll be fairly accurately predicted the number of deaths the inaction led to, i.e. thousands of people died who should have been saved.
The charge will then be levelled that the government has failed in it's primary duty and that it is proven that it cannot be trusted to fulfil the duty of protecting it's citizens. It probably won't get this far, but I can see the political mire mirroring the chaos that has blighted New Orleans.
Keith Olbermann, I think, really does a great job summarizing everyone's anger: http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Olbermann-Blasts-on -Katrina.wmv
The Chosen One said:
To mobilize enough federal troops and then go door to door in a city of a HALF A MILLION and evacuate in less then 60 hours. Hell no. I'm not being an apologist .. just being real.
The only chance that had of happening was for the LA National Guard to do it. But that didn't happen.
The Chosen One
Member
Then why was Cuba able to evacuate 1.5 million people last year in the face of a category 5 storm?
Anthropic said:
OUCH. I must have missed the speech when Chertoff said that.
Toxicadam said:
How about having a decently planned evacuation strategy in cities and burgs within hurricane striking distance every single year? If not, how about having ANY resemblance of a evacuation strategy in a city situated in a soupbowl and surrounded by three sides of water? Doesn't seem like too much to ask for.
Yeah that's a good question, Toxic. I'd guess that funding being cut for the past few years has something to do with it, however.
But I swear if one more person, online or off, is like "WELL WHY DID THEY PUT A CITY NEAR SO MUCH WATER OMG WTF" I'm gonna punch them. I heard someone say this today and I really wanted to call him out for it but kept my cool. When the city was founded, people didn't think about those things, because they didn't know much about those things. When stroms came through it obviously did not stop people from moving there. It's just the way things were back then. People lived differently, life was short. The city is there, the people are stuck with it, when it gets cleaned up you can definitely expect just about everyone to come back. It's THERE. You can't get rid of it, has gas and oil price not been a perfect example of this already?
I swear, if people were actually dumber than they already are when it comes to things like this, they would've been like "DID TEH TERRORISTS CAUSE THE HURRICANE AND BRING DOWN THE LEVEES?!!?!"
But I swear if one more person, online or off, is like "WELL WHY DID THEY PUT A CITY NEAR SO MUCH WATER OMG WTF" I'm gonna punch them. I heard someone say this today and I really wanted to call him out for it but kept my cool. When the city was founded, people didn't think about those things, because they didn't know much about those things. When stroms came through it obviously did not stop people from moving there. It's just the way things were back then. People lived differently, life was short. The city is there, the people are stuck with it, when it gets cleaned up you can definitely expect just about everyone to come back. It's THERE. You can't get rid of it, has gas and oil price not been a perfect example of this already?
I swear, if people were actually dumber than they already are when it comes to things like this, they would've been like "DID TEH TERRORISTS CAUSE THE HURRICANE AND BRING DOWN THE LEVEES?!!?!"
Hyoushi said:
if that voice is really her and that audio is in the correct context...idiocy runs in the family apparently....
EDIT: Talk about downplaying it... ok there is the title to the news article on cnn.com about it:
Barbara Bush: 'Working very well' for poor
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/06/katrina.presidents.ap/index.html
ok so you think the article is going to focus on that... indeed the header says:
HOUSTON, Texas (AP) -- Former Presidents Bush and Clinton got smiles, hugs and requests for autographs when they met with refugees from Hurricane Katrina -- but it was Bush's wife who got attention for some of her comments.
.... and the article starts out:
Barbara Bush, who accompanied the former presidents on a tour of the Astrodome complex Monday, said the relocation to Houston is "working very well" for some of the poor people forced out of New Orleans.
"What I'm hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality," she said during a radio interview with the American Public Media program "Marketplace." "And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this is working very well for them."
And that's it... no commentary on it... the article actually instead focuses more on the vision the ex-presidents made....
Shogmaster
Member
Oh my lord.... Al Franken is gonna have a field day with that Babara Bush quote on his radio show. *Thinks back to Babara Bush chapter on Lying Liars*
Even Barbara Bush gets bashed here at GAF. lol. How sad.
Here is a great first hand account (long) of one persons experience through Katrina and the aftemath in NO:
http://www.sistermachinegun.com/newsgroup/post.jsp?msgid=1125943032246&r=0
Here is a great first hand account (long) of one persons experience through Katrina and the aftemath in NO:
http://www.sistermachinegun.com/newsgroup/post.jsp?msgid=1125943032246&r=0
NPPA site with testimonies from press photographers
Totally awesome photos too, it's hard to imagine that as scenes from the US
Totally awesome photos too, it's hard to imagine that as scenes from the US
Lucas Oleniuk of the Toronto Star - was knocked to the ground by police, his gear taken from him initially, when he photographed them shooting at looters and then beating one. In response to the growing violence and an increasing sense of despair among the stranded survivors, some television networks have hired armed private security firms to protect their journalists as they work to cover the story.Hyoushi said:NPAA site with testimonies from press photographers
Totally awesome photos too, it's hard to imagine that as scenes from the US
GEE WHIZZ. The "powers that be" abusing their power in times of crisis? I would have never guessed in a million years!
Cauliflower of Love
Banned
Diablos said:
*Start writing newsletter*
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
DarienA said:
Poor, mostly Black people? That's not bullshit. That's normal. Still, it does leave me in slack-jawed disbelief that it was so blatant. So obvious.
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/sep/05090111.html
911 killed ~3,000 - Katrina killed 10,000 or perhaps a few tens of thousands.
what's next?
911 killed ~3,000 - Katrina killed 10,000 or perhaps a few tens of thousands.
what's next?
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/sep/05090111.html <-- fucking disgusting commentary.
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