SublimeO12
Neo Member
Same exact thing just happened to me twice in a row.
Hyper Light Drifter |OT| We On A HyperLight Beam
- Thread starter More_Badass
- Start date
Same exact thing just happened to me twice in a row.
They don't look like minor tweaks to me. Iframes on the dash changes everything, no? And faster healing and refilling health packs just make the game easier, which is a sensitive topic to those, like myself, who enjoy the game's difficulty and feel it has been unfairly criticised for being hard.
The patch notes say the changes were made to "make you feel like a more badass drifter than ever before". Ironically I think the changes do the opposite - the best I felt in the game was in situations where heading into a tough fight in a bad way health-wise, I mastered the combat situation and won despite the adverse circumstances. Making the game easier would take that away.
Yep, when I read "make you feel like a badass", can't help but think of the "button-awesome" video.
You know what makes you feel like a badass? Mastering a game and overcoming challenges. You know what doesn't? When the challenges step down to your current level.
yeah i have to agree that these patch changes are kind of dismaying. while they will at least make these optional changes, it's sad to see them back down on these particular points because the dash and the medkit delay were two design choices that shaped the fast-paced "glass cannon" playstyle of this game in what i felt was a positive and unique way.
the argument for accessibility always seems to rear its head any time difficulty gets brought up. i think an important question with any change is who, is this making the game more accessible to. adding i-frames seems specifically intended to make HLD's dash behave like the dodge roll in souls games, and lord knows i never thought i'd see a day where accessibility meant making something more like dark souls.
the dash as-is was probably my favorite aspect of the whole game; in hyper light drifter the dash is your weapon way more than a gun or sword. it's fast but not a teleport, and still has to obey physical boundaries. you can't dash through an obstacle or an enemy, and if you dash through something that would cause damage you still take the hit. being vulnerable while dashing was a key point in learning how the ability, for me: you dash around danger, or dart away from it then return to counterattack. hyper light drifter is like playing as another game's infuriating little smallfry enemy that can't take a hit but always flits away from attacks just in time. castlevania x68k dolls: the game
honestly, to make the game more accessible, i think the easiest option would be just adding a mode where you get two or three extra hit points. changing the margin for error makes a huge difference; the game already decreases it with the alt drifter or NG+ and it becomes so much more demanding. increasing it with a bigger health bar would go a long way in making the game more approachable without also sacrificing anything that makes it unique.
if i was making changes i'd also not ask people to do 800 chain dashes in a row cough cough just sayin
the argument for accessibility always seems to rear its head any time difficulty gets brought up. i think an important question with any change is who, is this making the game more accessible to. adding i-frames seems specifically intended to make HLD's dash behave like the dodge roll in souls games, and lord knows i never thought i'd see a day where accessibility meant making something more like dark souls.
the dash as-is was probably my favorite aspect of the whole game; in hyper light drifter the dash is your weapon way more than a gun or sword. it's fast but not a teleport, and still has to obey physical boundaries. you can't dash through an obstacle or an enemy, and if you dash through something that would cause damage you still take the hit. being vulnerable while dashing was a key point in learning how the ability, for me: you dash around danger, or dart away from it then return to counterattack. hyper light drifter is like playing as another game's infuriating little smallfry enemy that can't take a hit but always flits away from attacks just in time. castlevania x68k dolls: the game
honestly, to make the game more accessible, i think the easiest option would be just adding a mode where you get two or three extra hit points. changing the margin for error makes a huge difference; the game already decreases it with the alt drifter or NG+ and it becomes so much more demanding. increasing it with a bigger health bar would go a long way in making the game more approachable without also sacrificing anything that makes it unique.
if i was making changes i'd also not ask people to do 800 chain dashes in a row cough cough just sayin
Decided to test it to be able to actually have a more informed opinion.
You can actually time your dash wrong, hit it too late and still get hit, your character gets knocked down and everything. But you don't lose any health.
The i-frames are so generous that even when the game says you failed, you still don't.
It also drastically decreases the usefulness of guns. Those big plant things that roll to attack you? Just hit them until they start their animation and dash through them to continue hitting them. No need to gun cancel to get a bit more damage before you have to get out of the way, just stay in there. Square square square X.
You can actually time your dash wrong, hit it too late and still get hit, your character gets knocked down and everything. But you don't lose any health.
The i-frames are so generous that even when the game says you failed, you still don't.
It also drastically decreases the usefulness of guns. Those big plant things that roll to attack you? Just hit them until they start their animation and dash through them to continue hitting them. No need to gun cancel to get a bit more damage before you have to get out of the way, just stay in there. Square square square X.
AmethystEnd
Member
They added i-frames to the dash?
Totally unnecessary, in my opinion.
Huh.
Totally unnecessary, in my opinion.
Huh.
80s Bad Guy
Banned
This is all very disappointing. I thought the challenge was right on before and made me appreciate the combat a ton. Maybe there's a toggle, but it makes me sad new players won't understand what I thought took this game from good to great.
I was playing until now, just redoing all of East to test in scenarios I've been through before to be able to properly compare them. Even found a few more secrets while doing it! 
I hate how good this game is, even these changes that I completely disagree with can't make me not love playing it. This is seriously one of the best things I've played in a long time.
I have to admit, there is some fun to be had abusing the dash i-frames, and the dash guard can still be useful because it replenishes your ammo. But even then, you can still just see how the game was completely balanced around the mechanics we had before, and how it's wasted with something so powerful. You can tell you're about to enter an encounter with Ninja Frogs simply because of the conveniently placed cover, made so people who can't deflect or absorb projectiles can still find a way to stay safe other than just dodging, so they can take cover, wait for the shuriken, dash in and attack, but now I didn't see the point. Just go in. Your dash will protect you, and more importantly, health is no longer an issue. It really encourages you to be much more reckless, while the previous version was all about caution, treating encounters as puzzles and understanding the mechanics.
The way I instinctly started to play more and more aggressive reminded me of Bloodborne compared to Dark Souls, but while Bloodborne made you more aggressive with regain, it came with a downside: If you don't control yourself and just go in like a madman, you will get killed. Here, you can just keep going in, healing and you'll be fine, there will be plenty of health for you to pick up, and if there isn't, you can just go back to the warp point to get three (or more) health packs, and enemies won't respawn.
I think they can still make it work without changing too much about enemy placement and behavior, I'll repeat my opinion that warp points replenishing your stuff can work perfectly fine, as long as that's all you get (or at least less health pickups than now), and "resting" at a warp point or warping absolutely must respawn every single enemy. If they do that, I'm ok with the health related changes.
The i-frames would still be unnecessary, but I think I can deal with that, just because this change could actually make the game harder for people who were already struggling enough to ask for more health pickups, so it's ok, I can do it. Though I wonder if it wouldn't break boss fights. The only one I did was already on my first try having to actually physically dodge their projectiles, imagine if I could just dash through them and hit the boss.
One thing they can do to make it less punishing that I wouldn't complain at all and would not ask for anything to compensate would be to make you invincible for a moment after you get hit. This hasn't been a problem to me at all, but that's exactly why I can't see a reason why they shouldn't add it to help people complaining about this situation.
EDIT: The i-frames also probably decrease the usefulness of multi-dashing for combat. Didn't run into too many situations where it was useful, but I can definitely see some uses for "dash out of harm's way, cancel into another dash to punish your enemy on their recovery", but with i-frames you just dash through the attack and stay in.
There's already a "Dash style" toggle on the menu, but you can't select anything yet. So they're definitely implementing it, we'll see which one will be default.
I hate how good this game is, even these changes that I completely disagree with can't make me not love playing it. This is seriously one of the best things I've played in a long time.
I have to admit, there is some fun to be had abusing the dash i-frames, and the dash guard can still be useful because it replenishes your ammo. But even then, you can still just see how the game was completely balanced around the mechanics we had before, and how it's wasted with something so powerful. You can tell you're about to enter an encounter with Ninja Frogs simply because of the conveniently placed cover, made so people who can't deflect or absorb projectiles can still find a way to stay safe other than just dodging, so they can take cover, wait for the shuriken, dash in and attack, but now I didn't see the point. Just go in. Your dash will protect you, and more importantly, health is no longer an issue. It really encourages you to be much more reckless, while the previous version was all about caution, treating encounters as puzzles and understanding the mechanics.
The way I instinctly started to play more and more aggressive reminded me of Bloodborne compared to Dark Souls, but while Bloodborne made you more aggressive with regain, it came with a downside: If you don't control yourself and just go in like a madman, you will get killed. Here, you can just keep going in, healing and you'll be fine, there will be plenty of health for you to pick up, and if there isn't, you can just go back to the warp point to get three (or more) health packs, and enemies won't respawn.
I think they can still make it work without changing too much about enemy placement and behavior, I'll repeat my opinion that warp points replenishing your stuff can work perfectly fine, as long as that's all you get (or at least less health pickups than now), and "resting" at a warp point or warping absolutely must respawn every single enemy. If they do that, I'm ok with the health related changes.
The i-frames would still be unnecessary, but I think I can deal with that, just because this change could actually make the game harder for people who were already struggling enough to ask for more health pickups, so it's ok, I can do it. Though I wonder if it wouldn't break boss fights. The only one I did was already on my first try having to actually physically dodge their projectiles, imagine if I could just dash through them and hit the boss.
One thing they can do to make it less punishing that I wouldn't complain at all and would not ask for anything to compensate would be to make you invincible for a moment after you get hit. This hasn't been a problem to me at all, but that's exactly why I can't see a reason why they shouldn't add it to help people complaining about this situation.
EDIT: The i-frames also probably decrease the usefulness of multi-dashing for combat. Didn't run into too many situations where it was useful, but I can definitely see some uses for "dash out of harm's way, cancel into another dash to punish your enemy on their recovery", but with i-frames you just dash through the attack and stay in.
There's already a "Dash style" toggle on the menu, but you can't select anything yet. So they're definitely implementing it, we'll see which one will be default.
Finally dragged myself away from Stardew Valley long enough to beat the West and the South. Fuck me if I wasn't having a ton of trouble on the Western boss.
South was fine. Wasn't a fan of the area or the music, but the boss was easily the best in the game.
.
South was fine. Wasn't a fan of the area or the music, but the boss was easily the best in the game.
Because there were 4 of them! And the were all super badass and fun to fight. None of them were that tough, but they all looked so cool and I looked so cool fighting them. I mean, I still died a couple of times to some of them before I knew what to do, but I never felt like it was my lack of skill, just a lack of knowledge.
Invincibility frames added to the dash and the heal animation was sped up? Feels like the developers overreacted a bit.. The combat was amazing as it was.
edit: I still don't understand why this game was stigmatized as TOO HARD when the checkpointing was so friendly. Did that RPS review set everyone off? I suppose people got themselves in situations where a checkpoint saved when they had virtually no health/potions.
Maybe a few more potion recharge stations + a checkpoint rework would have been better?
edit: I still don't understand why this game was stigmatized as TOO HARD when the checkpointing was so friendly. Did that RPS review set everyone off? I suppose people got themselves in situations where a checkpoint saved when they had virtually no health/potions.
Maybe a few more potion recharge stations + a checkpoint rework would have been better?
They could go back to the warp point and recharge their health, enemies would still be dead and they just had to run for less than a minute to get to where they were.
It's just easier to blame the game.
PSY・S;201156312 said:
You probably should. It's a brilliant, brilliant game, even with the changes, but since they've already been talking about offering a toggle, might as well play the "even more brilliant" version.
Baloonatic
Member
The health pack refill seems the most unneccessary to me. i-frames when dodging is something I really like in games but I'm not sure you can just patch it in without it being planned from the start.
I actually think some of the defensive abilities you can buy should have been available from the start with an option to toggle them on and off.
I actually think some of the defensive abilities you can buy should have been available from the start with an option to toggle them on and off.
I'm personally glad they made the game more manageable. When I played HLD at launch it felt unfairly hard because the enemies do not give a shit about getting hit, so it would regularly be tit for tat, and spawning twenty in a room is hardly interesting combat design to me; more an exercise in patience for bullet hell design. The checkpointing was far from generous, requiring you to manually force the game to checkpoint if you didn't want to redo huge sections of dungeons because of a mistake in a fight.
Hard games are cool, and big ups to you for finishing it with that difficulty, but I'm glad I'll also be able to enjoy this game now. The developer should just set a normal and hard difficulty to address the variance in interests expressed over his game.
Hard games are cool, and big ups to you for finishing it with that difficulty, but I'm glad I'll also be able to enjoy this game now. The developer should just set a normal and hard difficulty to address the variance in interests expressed over his game.
Kinda sucks it was at the expense of people who actually enjoyed the combat more before. Even with the dash toggle, the sheer amount of healing and reducing of its frames makes it a significantly easier experience for me now too. I'm kinda super disappointed that apparently that RPS article had such an effect that it made the dev recoil like that
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
I haven't played much since launch, but I plan on playing more today. What has this patch done? I don't feel as though the game was unfair before. Challenging, sure, but in a good way.
Added frames of invincibility to dash
Warp pads now refill health kits
Achievements for Dash challenge + Soccer
for KB+M: can now choose option for KB direction dash
Sped up heal several frames
Adjusted various room scenery/hitches across the world
Fixed Alt Drifter dash catch
Fixed a credits crash
Can now go to full credits again after you beat the game through credits menu option
Messofanego
Banned
FUCK YES
Adding i-frames to dash and speeding up healing seems like big changes considering they could have just stayed as design decisions.
Hahahahahaha
The dash achievement is unlocked the moment you load your save, so maybe the game will remember your soccer win as well.
At least there's something now
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
The game is totally different now. I finished it at launch an enjoyed it a lot. I don't know if the changes are good or bad as such but it's a little weird that the game I finished already doesn't really exist anymore. Still it's a great game. Hopefully everyone enjoys it now. The only change I wanted really was Steam cloud saves.....
Side note: Bought the soundtrack as soon as it came out and I love it. It's pretty different from the Fez soundtrack despite sounding similar on the surface but I think it's still quality work,
Side note: Bought the soundtrack as soon as it came out and I love it. It's pretty different from the Fez soundtrack despite sounding similar on the surface but I think it's still quality work,
I have a hard time imagining that the game is really that "different" now. It was really only challenging in the first hour or so, and that mostly had to do with figuring out the game's systems and upgrade paths. Once you get a couple of upgrades and understand how the map and combat work, the game wasn't some Major Test of Gaming Skill or anything. By the end, you're pretty much an unstoppable force of nature.
The heart of the game is the exploration IMO, not the combat. The combat just helps break up the pacing a bit and gives you something to do while you explore. So a few tweaks with additional health packs here and there and some sped up healing times shouldn't make much difference. It's weird the reputation this game got for being "hard." I still don't see it. And now people responding that the game has been "nerfed" is just as weird. I really don't get it. It's a fun action-adventure game. That hasn't changed.
The heart of the game is the exploration IMO, not the combat. The combat just helps break up the pacing a bit and gives you something to do while you explore. So a few tweaks with additional health packs here and there and some sped up healing times shouldn't make much difference. It's weird the reputation this game got for being "hard." I still don't see it. And now people responding that the game has been "nerfed" is just as weird. I really don't get it. It's a fun action-adventure game. That hasn't changed.
Beat the game last night. Finally boss was a bit of a let down. Looked super cool, but I didn't even die once, which I never accomplished with any of the other bosses. Don't think it was because of the patch either, because I never really felt like I was dodging through attacks and I had plenty of time to heal.
Ending was confusing like everything else storywise. At least it looked super pretty.
But, the best thing is now I get to play through the game again with the sick Anubis alt drifter! Oh, it's so awesome!
Ending was confusing like everything else storywise. At least it looked super pretty.
But, the best thing is now I get to play through the game again with the sick Anubis alt drifter! Oh, it's so awesome!
charlequin
Banned
I haven't been able to get back to this game after a few hours right on release day, but the fact that they're reducing difficulty but this is still an issue concerns me. I hate hate hate this mechanic -- not from difficulty, but just from game experience. If I'm going to respawn at a checkpoint, that should be exactly that -- a neutral stopping point that I can assume I can move forward from fresh. When you don't let the player refresh, at best it makes checkpoints a tedious thing (where you find yourself refilling on health/ammo at each one), and at worst makes getting a checkpoint actually worse than nothing. I think in any game that does this, I would rather have half as many checkpoints (or less) but the ones that exist refill you completely.
harriet the spy
Member
Anyone lurking this thread and wishing he could try the game? I think I have a steam key to donate.
this is exactly who I am, actually
Ricky Ricardo
Member
I'm late, but if for some reason Corvo can't accept or something ...
afternoon delight
Member
Hrm, I thought it was pretty apparent if you rewatch the opening cinematic.
Haven't been able to keep up the past couple of weeks. Looking at some of the changes I'm sad.
Pads refreshing health kits is fucking stupid. People could have explored a different direction to refill them and then gone back.
I hope Alx went through the idea of making old versions available through the Beta function on Steam.
Pads refreshing health kits is fucking stupid. People could have explored a different direction to refill them and then gone back.
I hope Alx went through the idea of making old versions available through the Beta function on Steam.
I feel sad for the hardcore crowd, and I hope they put "hard mode" back in. But I dont have a lot of time in my day to get good at skillful games these days so I'm happy to be able to make progress while still finding it moderately challenging. Felt like I'd wasted my money before.
Another change they've made is that all the secret pathways and platform activation areas are now marked with a little square symbol.
I'm not sure how I feel about it. It will definitely cut down on rubbing up against walls and edges to find secrets but it also makes the discovery less rewarding.
I'm not sure how I feel about it. It will definitely cut down on rubbing up against walls and edges to find secrets but it also makes the discovery less rewarding.
I think that was there before. Some of them had little hints. I just tried to go to one of my secret pathways and nothing lit up
I don't mean the little square that pops up above your bot. There are now little symbols that appear on the ground near secrets.
Yeah no i know that. That was here before for a few places I think
Whoa. Did they really add those? Ugh. That seems like a step too far. I don't mind the added health packs and whatnot since the combat wasn't much of a hassle for me one way or the other, but the game was all about exploration for me. Adding signposts for the secrets really seems like it kills what I found most magical about the game. Bummer.
I get where the impulse to simplify the game is coming from, but I would hope that devs would be willing to stand by their creative choices more firmly instead of capitulating to a vocal minority. I wish they would trust that a good game will find its audience. That's a real bummer. Glad I played it when I did, but I'm bummed I won't ever be able to play it again.
Well, they've taken the feedback to heart and removed the faster healing and health pack top up at warp points. They've also reduced the invincible frames on the dash but not removed it completely.
I don't actually mind the signposts for secrets too much now. I'm at the stage where I'm hunting for every missed secret and they do remove the need to run my character along every wall or ledge to check for them. I still have to look for the symbols pretty carefully to see them, so it's not like they highlighted all the secrets on a map or something.
afternoon delight
Member
More changes, more indecision about more changes, am I going to have to scour the internet for 1.0 build to play? Is this thing going to have fan edits?
-MD-
Member
Still think they're making changes that are too big in a very short amount of time.
They talk about staying true to their vision for 3 whole years, and then change everything - twice - in less than a month after the game comes out.
It's great to my preferences that they ended up agreeing with me that the changes were too much and needed to be dialed back, but it really shows how not that well thought out they were. They shouldn't need this feedback, they should have tested something this major more thoroughly.
They talk about staying true to their vision for 3 whole years, and then change everything - twice - in less than a month after the game comes out.
It's great to my preferences that they ended up agreeing with me that the changes were too much and needed to be dialed back, but it really shows how not that well thought out they were. They shouldn't need this feedback, they should have tested something this major more thoroughly.
Glass Shark
Banned
Unfortunately, I haven't had time to revisit this game. As someone who completed it before it was even released, it sounds like the changes they are making now fundamentally change the game. Interesting...
Permanently A
Junior Member
I just finished the game. The story flew right over my head, anyone can elucidate?
afternoon delight
Member
The 4/23 build ran worse than 4/18 so I reverted again, I want to play this more but this back and forth for a single player offline game, oi.
I'm guessing you (the drifter) clear the infection that corrupted the kingdom and species within it.
The squares on the floor were definitely already there - I used them to hunt down some secrets long before the divisive patch.
I think they're great; something for observant players to look out for and be rewarded by. Blindly pressing up against the edges of the maps hoping for something is not good game design in my book. There has to be some sort of hint, no matter how subtle.
I think they're great; something for observant players to look out for and be rewarded by. Blindly pressing up against the edges of the maps hoping for something is not good game design in my book. There has to be some sort of hint, no matter how subtle.
johancruijff
Banned
north boss without any upgrade is a nah?
I haven't got a chance to play since launch. Seems like a lot of big things were changed... but if I'm reading the thread right they didn't change the problem of respawning with low health? That was literally all they had to do in terms of difficulty imo. It's a super annoying design choice