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[cinnamonandgravy]

Example? [of slowdown being fun]

metal slug (if metal slug doesnt have slowdown in the right spots, the whole game doesnt feel right)
games with big sexy explosions

sometimes it feels good when you're kicking so much ass and making so much happen on screen that you're making the console chug.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Why is it okay in movies but not games?

Cause movies doesn't have free-cam

 

[Katatonic]

I grew up in a time where every game was 60hz and would dip if there was a lot happening on screen which, whether intentionally or not, added a dramatic effect .

Metal Gear Rising did this on consoles when it first released and it's the reason I prefer playing it on PS3 rather than on PC which has locked 60 fps. Something just feels sterile about that version.

The Final Fantasy 16 demo does this really well too.

 

[Balducci30]

People keep saying that, but games seem to keep coming out with that 60 fps option.

First it was just cross games, now street fighter and FF16 have performance options and their not cross gen. They even added it to Redfall, so despite all the problems that game has/had, at least it'll be 60 frames per second.

I think most companies like making money, so I have a feeling devs will continue to find a way to add the option.

We’ve gotten like 5 next gen only games total - it’s year 3. Ff16’s 60 fps option is very unstable - but hopefully will be better on release. Come back in year 6

 

[NickFire]

This will all become moot when they add 60 to Starfield on X.

 

[Batiman]

TBH 30fps only bugs me the initial half hour of playing. That’s if I’m coming off a 60fps game. If I’m switching between the two games it gets jarring. But if I’m stuck on a long 30fps game I usually adjust to it quickly and it doesn’t really bug me.

I do believe 60fps is more important on certain types of games and a higher frame rate is always better.

 

[Hendrick's]

I think you have lost sight. 30 fps is not acceptable in 2023 for most experiences.

It's like asking us to go back and play on SD TVs. Why should we mind when we had so much fun with it ages ago.

 

[Toons]

Aint most of the folks here too old for their eyes to be able to tell the difference?

Just sayin

In all seriousness yeah it never bothered me. I've never once in my life played a video game that actually plays good and said "ya know I wish this framerate showed me extra pixels for every 2 frames"

 

[Nydius]

New month, same tired ass shit thread about 30/60 trying to justify why 20 year old standards are okay and we should just "live with it".

Give me a fucking break.

Both Sony and Microsoft heavily marketed this generation of consoles as a major leap forward. They touted 60fps (and up to 120fps!), VRR, native 4K, upscaled 8K, blazing fast load times and unprecedented amount of user options available on consoles.

Now that games are sliding right back to fixed 30fps with no options outside of PC, people have every right to be pissed off and calling them out on this bullshit. Just because games were okay at 30 in the past doesn't mean it's okay that they stay there. Technology progresses. What was fine 20 years ago isn't fine today. Imagine trying to use this same argument for literally any other facet of technology. You'd be roundly ridiculed, and for good cause.

I bought these consoles based on the idea that we'd be able to play games at 60fps if we wanted, or 30fps if we wanted to prioritize visuals. Now that we're leaving cross-gen, those marketing concepts have been thrown in the shitter.

As for the entirety of your wall of text, here's my review of it:

 

[names are for friends]

fundamentally what people don't understand is that framerate is an important element of the visual presentation. it's not just a gameplay consideration

the way i see it, playing a game at 30fps is sort of akin to playing at 720p, except the game also plays worse on top of looking like shit

there is no static visual quality good enough on the modern consoles (let alone PC) to justify playing at 30fps. and if your game isn't hindered at all by playing at 30fps, i'd question whether the game you're playing is a real game

 

[Karppuuna]

We need more hardware power man! Gimme more power, specially in CPU department man!

 

[DavidGzz]

People complain about the smallest thing like font in a game, at least 30-60 fps is a huge difference. It's Neogaf, complaining is about 80% of the activity on here and this thread isn't changing a thing but I get your complaint.

 

[Perfo]

60fps should’ve taken priority over resolution long ago and only Nintendo realised its importance many many times.

I’m glad finally almost everyone among developers understood that 60 fps is the way to go.

In 30 fps you lose details anyway so really no point in wasting resources on it when graphics look like shit when moving compared to 60.

 

[genesisblock]

metal slug (if metal slug doesnt have slowdown in the right spots, the whole game doesnt feel right)
games with big sexy explosions

sometimes it feels good when you're kicking so much ass and making so much happen on screen that you're making the console chug.

Wait, what? People ACTUALLY likes the slowdown???

 

[01011001]

Wait, what? People ACTUALLY likes the slowdown???

It's just nostalgia. playing modded SNES roms that simulate a second CPU or overclock helper chips are eyeopening.

Contra 3 in full 60fps with zero slowdown and reduced flicker is fucking amazing to behold!

 

[LemonSawa]

Example?

Shoot 'em ups.

Though when I was younger, a game like Golden Eye slowing down due to a lot of explosions in multiplayer was fun, it was like "OMG so much going on". Recently i got that kind of slow down wit Vampire Survivors like 20 seconds before the match ended and it's not annoying.

But if a game slows down just because you rotate the camera, or run around in a town, that's not a fun slowdown.

For me 30fps is not a deal breaker, I don't care but I vastly prefer 60 fps because animations look way cooler. Most of my favorite games run at 60 fps though

 

[stickkidsam]

I think you have lost sight. 30 fps is not acceptable in 2023 for most experiences.

It's like asking us to go back and play on SD TVs. Why should we mind when we had so much fun with it ages ago.

It doesn’t matter if your game runs at 120 FPS and 4K if the gameplay sucks balls. A well designed game that runs 30 FPS and 720p however can work great.

Just because it isn’t optimal doesn’t mean it isn’t acceptable and acting as if it does only stifles future games.

 

[KloetenQuetsche]

It is the choice of the creators if the use the CPU and gpu power for a specific framerate target or more complex graphics.

That will never change, doesn't matter how much cpu power available.
Accept that and check if the game is good. If yes play it.

Im gamer since 25 years. The last 10 years I barely play anything beside of Flight Sim, City Skylines and a bunch of smaller games due to lack of time.
Since Zeld TOK came out I'm back as a gamer!
This game is so perfect. No imagination what happens if Nintendo decided to create this game with 60fps. They had to cut the physics or the amount of details. Glad they didn't.

Sure if the same game was in 60 without cutbacks, would be great. But there is always a border. Now and in ten years.
And if the power is used for something that creates a better immersion, it's the thing to do!

 

[Team Andromeda]

The likes of YouTube and DF got to last to answer for IMO

 

[Mobilemofo]

It all started with the Amiga wankers back in the 90s. They then became the PC wankers, and their kids became console AND pc wankers. When consoles started to become more popular, the kids of the kids became console wankers...

And here we are.

 

[Kumomeme]

put aside which fps number is better experiences,

for me '30fps is unplayable' is totally hyperbole

30fps is perfectly playable. unless it is inconsistently dipped below that. above that? thats bonus. but doesnt mean 30fps cant be played at all. what a LIES.

also it is depend on type of game. for example fast paced game like action benefit alot and at the best with higher fps. BUT, doesnt mean 30fps of it is 'unplayable at all' lmao.

sure, some people who get to used toward higher fps has hard time to return back to lower fps. i too used to be like that but, it is more like personal preferences. no need to push that toward generally to others and force them to accept.

personally, i wish people talk less about resolution and fps numbers. im not saying people should stop talk about it completely but stop put that as number one priority of topic discussion. we need to talk more about game. like the game design, gameplay mechanics, worldbuilding, structure and other stuff. from what i see for years lurking here, people too obsessed with stuff like fps and resolution and less appreaciation or discussion toward other important aspect. not saying it is wrong but the critical obsession toward it obscured of what could be others potential interesting topic of discussion. not just fps and resolution, others number like teraflops too. all this give birth to unnecessary console warring.


Edit: im sorry, but english not even my first language end yet im baffled there is people could misunderstood something soo clear as this. here i put colour on the words to help people who think with emotion to not immediately twist stuff i didnt said.

i just said about people use numbers to give birth toward console warring and here it happened. instead of console warring, it become troll instead.

 

[Mobilemofo]

This will all become moot when they add 60 to Starfield on X.

Yeah, about that..never gonna happen. Bethesda don't want to, ahem, sacrifice "visual quality". Hence the "creative" choice to keep it at 30fps.

 

[TheAssist]

I like the fact that most AAA games now give you a chance to decide whether you want 30 or 60 fps. I just played the FF16 demo and you immediately feels the difference. 30 feels so much more sluggish and the motion blur is excessive. On 60 its fine.

So yeah, if you have the resources you should give people the chance to decide what's more important to them. I've played enough 30fps games in my life, so I am not one to dismiss a game just because of that, if everythign else is fine. But certain games profit so much from 60, its crazy and I just prefer it.

 

[01011001]

for me '30fps is unplayable' is totally hyperbole

30fps is perfectly playable. unless it is inconsistently dipped below that. above that? thats bonus. but doesnt mean 30fps cant be played at all. what a LIES.

so you would be ok with 20fps games then? 20fps is perfectly playable as well

 

[MALpractice311]

Aint most of the folks here too old for their eyes to be able to tell the difference?

Just sayin

In all seriousness yeah it never bothered me. I've never once in my life played a video game that actually plays good and said "ya know I wish this framerate showed me extra pixels for every 2 frames"

My eyes are too old to see the difference between 1440p and 4k. They can very easily see the difference between 30fps and 60fps and even 90fps.

 

[Kumomeme]

so you would be ok with 20fps games then? 20fps is perfectly playable as well

so you dont know how to read?

here i quoted my own post again:

for me '30fps is unplayable' is totally hyperbole

30fps is perfectly playable. unless it is inconsistently dipped below that. above that? thats bonus. but doesnt mean 30fps cant be played at all. what a LIES.

you cant differentiate between 30 and 20? comprehension issue?

 

[01011001]

so you dont know how to read?

here i quoted my own post again:


you cant differentiate between 30 and 20? comprehension issue?

You are the one with the comprehension issue here.
your argument is that 30fps is ok because it's playable, and saying it's not playable is hyperbole.

so my question is: would you be ok with it if AAA games all switched to 20fps?

 

[Kumomeme]

You are the one with the comprehension issue here.
your argument is that 30fps is ok because it's playable, and saying it's not playable is hyperbole.

so my question is: would you be ok with it if AAA games all switched to 20fps?

no you the one.

clearly i mention 30fps there. show me which line i said 20fps.

here again i quoted my own post again

for me '30fps is unplayable' is totally hyperbole

30fps is perfectly playable. unless it is inconsistently dipped below that. above that? thats bonus. but doesnt mean 30fps cant be played at all. what a LIES.

did you know what that red words mean? here i break it down:

30fps is perfectly playable. unless it is inconsistently dipped below that.

again:

unless it is inconsistently dipped below that.

what is below 30fps?

unless

unless

unless

unless

inconsistently dipped below

inconsistently dipped below

inconsistently dipped below

inconsistently dipped below

'30 FRAME RATE PERSECOND IS PLAYABLE, UNLESS, IT INCONSISTENTLY DIPPED BELOW THAT

 

[MonkeyClaw36]

30 fps always sucked. It’s why I switched to PC as my main platform in like 2006. If you don’t mind it, that’s fine too.

And yet no-one complains when watching tv/ movies. Which are 24fps..... It never sucked and never will.

 

[01011001]

And yet no-one complains when watching tv/ movies. Which are 24fps..... It never sucked and never will.

congratulations, you're the first one to post this absolutely braindead argument!

and for doing so you win this hat:

 

[TrebleShot]

60fps is last gen, 120fps feels next gen to me in 2023

 

[moniker]

When people say 30 fps is "unplayable", they don't mean it's literally unplayable, just that the experience is so unpleasant that they would rather play something else.

 

[UnNamed]

For me, the best (or worst) nonsense with people obsessed with 60fps is they may have 400ms of reaction time brain to arm, but they complain about 16ms difference.

 

[Thyuda]

And yet no-one complains when watching tv/ movies. Which are 24fps..... It never sucked and never will.

Not even sure if serious or not

 

[LazyParrot]

And yet no-one complains when watching tv/ movies. Which are 24fps..... It never sucked and never will.

Low frame rates are bad because they increase the delay between player input and the corresponding action being displayed on screen, making games feel less responsive.

Can you really not see why that wouldn't be an issue with movies or TV shows?

 

[Shh]

And yet no-one complains when watching tv/ movies. Which are 24fps..... It never sucked and never will.

I hate the “Hollywood standard“ of 24 fps. Also, people do complain about it, thus nullifying your entire argument. The only reason that 24 fps is still a thing in movies is because that’s the original speed of film reels back in the day and nobody ever changed it and everyone got used to it. I can’t stand it and always enable fast motion on my TV.

 

[moniker]

For me, the best (or worst) nonsense with people obsessed with 60fps is they may have 400ms of reaction time brain to arm, but they complain about 16ms difference.

The average reaction time is 200-250 ms. The benefit of high fps is mostly a visual one (for me at least).

At 30 fps you have to add motion blur, because 30 fps without it looks stuttery. This means that every time the camera isn't stationary everything turns into a blurry mess.

I prefer to play without any motion blur, and the threshold where I personally experience fluidity without it is around 90 fps (which incidentally is the same both Valve and Oculus settled at for their VR headsets, where you really don't want motion blur), so that's what I play at.

 

[genesisblock]

Just got of running Super Mario Sunshine on Dolphin. A game that is forced in 30fps. While responsive, it is very noticeable. What's interesting is that when I bumped it up to 1080p resolution, the experience changed quitr significantly. The cleaner visuals without the jaggies actually made it very playable.. and for a moment 30fps isn't so bad at all.

Then I ran the 60fps hack on the game. And I immediately snapped back to reality. The smoothness, responsive time and the fact that the game still ages quite well despite being nearly 2 decades old.

 

[oji-san]

fundamentally what people don't understand is that framerate is an important element of the visual presentation. it's not just a gameplay consideration

the way i see it, playing a game at 30fps is sort of akin to playing at 720p, except the game also plays worse on top of looking like shit

there is no static visual quality good enough on the modern consoles (let alone PC) to justify playing at 30fps. and if your game isn't hindered at all by playing at 30fps, i'd question whether the game you're playing is a real game

While i agree, more precisely my eyes agree.. not everyone notice that, my family members can't tell the difference but i sure can.

 

[SeraphJan]

I agree with op, this type of discussion is waste of time

 

[Roxkis_ii]

Just got of running Super Mario Sunshine on Dolphin. A game that is forced in 30fps. While responsive, it is very noticeable. What's interesting is that when I bumped it up to 1080p resolution, the experience changed quitr significantly. The cleaner visuals without the jaggies actually made it very playable.. and for a moment 30fps isn't so bad at all.

Then I ran the 60fps hack on the game. And I immediately snapped back to reality. The smoothness, responsive time and the fact that the game still ages quite well despite being nearly 2 decades old.

Bro, 60 frames makes everything better and I'm tired of people pretending it doesn't.

 

[Balducci30]

This will all become moot when they add 60 to Starfield on X.

People are getting it twisted here - it’s not only to do with starfield. Next gen so far has been pretty disappointing in terms of pushing anything forward (physics, systems, graphics) - I’ve never seen this small of a jump. We’re in year 3. Horizon and ratchet look great but they weren’t truly mind blowing - horizon has great character models and overall asset quality - but the lighting model they use is pretty bad and it effects the consistency of the whole thing.

I want to see games push forward - and making 4k or 60 FPS a requirement is going to be problematic in that respect. I’d rather developers focus on getting a solid 30 fps and minimum 1440 - and push in other ways. Release the game.

Design the game focused on that and then maybe afterwards if you can find a way post release to add 60 go for it. But don’t make it the main focus. I want to see what Naughty Dog and Santa Monica can do if they don’t have to hit that resolution/framerate on old hardware.

 

[MikeM]

People are getting it twisted here - it’s not only to do with starfield. Next gen so far has been pretty disappointing in terms of pushing anything forward (physics, systems, graphics) - I’ve never seen this small of a jump. We’re in year 3. Horizon and ratchet look great but they weren’t truly mind blowing - horizon has great character models and overall asset quality - but the lighting model they use is pretty bad and it effects the consistency of the whole thing.

I want to see games push forward - and making 4k or 60 FPS a requirement is going to be problematic in that respect. I’d rather developers focus on getting a solid 30 fps and minimum 1440 - and push in other ways. Release the game.

Design the game focused on that and then maybe afterwards if you can find a way post release to add 60 go for it. But don’t make it the main focus. I want to see what Naughty Dog and Santa Monica can do if they don’t have to hit that resolution/framerate on old hardware.

We are in a period where the next major leap is lighting with RT. Its expensive and immature, but the consoles are able to do it in limited capacity. Cyberpunk on PC is a brilliant example of what the future may look like on PS7/Xbox Series X2.

 

[Danjin44]

I’m tired whole obnoxious graphic whoring in every fucking thread. We can’t even have proper game discussions without people’s crying over graphics hijacks entire thread.

 

[Balducci30]

We are in a period where the next major leap is lighting with RT. Its expensive and immature, but the consoles are able to do it in limited capacity. Cyberpunk on PC is a brilliant example of what the future may look like on PS7/Xbox Series X2.

Yea this is what I mean - I have a feeling to take advantage of unreal 5’s new features people are gonna have to make peace with lower frame rates as well. The consoles are just not near the level of newest PC technology atm

 

[rofif]

Thank you all for surprisingly very positive reaction to this thread all things considered!

 

[bad guy]

are you joking with me right now?
I never understood pc gaming?!

YOU SURE YOU WANT TO GO THERE?!...

Well then how can you say that anything under a 3080RTX is a waste and one should get a Ps5SeriesX instead? There are so much PC only games. It's a totally different box of frogs. About 95% of my games are PC exclusive. Even a 12 year old 970GTX system would be better for people who want LOL, CS, WoW, AoE, simulation games, indies ... You'd think someone with your history would kinda know about that. I'd even prefer a geforce8800GT PC over a current gen console just because of the choice of games. So yeah if the best graphics for multiplatform(console) games is your only concern then yeah you probably don't understand PC gaming.

And yeah I've been PC building and gaming for a while too after the Amiga500.

 

[SABRE220]

We are in a period where the next major leap is lighting with RT. Its expensive and immature, but the consoles are able to do it in limited capacity. Cyberpunk on PC is a brilliant example of what the future may look like on PS7/Xbox Series X2.

If amd cant even produce an architecture that can match the rtx4xxx by 2027/2028 then they deserve to go out of business even they aren't that incompetent. Ps6 should easily be capable of matching and exceeding the visuals in cyber punk overdrive , if they fail at that then that would be a massive failure and disappointment and they might as well look to invest in a partnership with intel.

 

[TLZ]

only now in 2022

 

[Roxkis_ii]

People who think we will be stuck with 30 fps forever need to learn how to dream bigger.

The demand for 60 fps on console is here and it's not going away. It's only so long compines are going to want to deal with the bad pr of not having a proformance mode option in games.

Framerate is a high priority on a lot of gamers list, and 30 fps bros are looking like the minority.