Then we agree with this, that at the end of the day, people aren't thinking about "philosophies of gaming" and strategizing about the industry. They just want to play games they like to play, as nebulous as that sounds. They want to buy products they are excited for. Yet it's a business so yes, if not enough people want Nintendo's products, if there aren't enough of people like me who are excited about Nintendo's products, something has to change.
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I feel like my love for Nintendo games is fading
- Thread starter Kokonoe
- Start date
Then we agree with this, that at the end of the day, people aren't thinking about "philosophies of gaming" and strategizing about the industry. They just want to play games they like to play, as nebulous as that sounds. They want to buy products they are excited for. Yet it's a business so yes, if not enough people want Nintendo's products, if there aren't enough of people like me who are excited about Nintendo's products, something has to change.
That's fine. But from my personal perspective, it's very difficult to continue to get excited about Nintendo games because I feel like I'm playing very similar games over and over. I say this as somebody who enjoyed, say, 3D Land on 3DS. But when you try to sell me a Wii U with a game like 3D Land, I just find it very difficult to get excited. You're not offering me a new experience to justify buying a new system. And I feel like Nintendo have been struggling to do that for some time.
Freezie KO
Banned
This isn't fair at all. MOBAs, Call of Duty multiplayer and related FPS games, Minecraft, Angry Birds, and more. These are all games that are gameplay driven.
Conversely, lots of Nintendo fans are excited for X, but all the gifs of that are entirely based on presentation. If you were to look at it from a gameplay perspective, it looks like a jogging simulator with mechs.
There are plenty of gameplay-centric games coming from outside Nintendo. A lot of them leverage online, of course.
astarisborn94
Member
I've also been losing interest in Nintendo recently. The NES and SNES are among the Top 5 best video game systems ever created and the Nintendo 64 is my personal all-time favorite console. I also think the Wii was a solid system and the library is underestimated by many people, even if the games didn't sell all that well. However, the Gamecube simply did not click with me when I owned me and from what I've seen of the Wii U, I'm very disappointed by how much Nintendo let that console down as it had the potential to be one of the greatest systems ever created and Nintendo massively dropped the ball. It looks as I won't be getting the Wii U until near the end of its lifespan.
This gen could very well be the last generation that I buy modern Nintendo home consoles. My biggest issue with Nintendo is how archaic they are in regards to stuff like online and how they do such a poor job of getting retail third-party games on the Wii U. I'm sure the 3DS is a good system as well, but my preference lies with consoles and seeing the Wii U be so underwhelming is frustrating and this is coming from someone who used to be a huge Wii fanboy.
This gen could very well be the last generation that I buy modern Nintendo home consoles. My biggest issue with Nintendo is how archaic they are in regards to stuff like online and how they do such a poor job of getting retail third-party games on the Wii U. I'm sure the 3DS is a good system as well, but my preference lies with consoles and seeing the Wii U be so underwhelming is frustrating and this is coming from someone who used to be a huge Wii fanboy.
haha. And there was 5 years between Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword. I don't even know how many years there were between Pikmin 2 and Pikmin 3. The only Nintendo franchise you could argue doesn't get enough time between entries is the NSMB series, and even then there's only one per platform, meaning we won't be seeing any more for a long time. Nintendo has a lot of games with Mario on the cover, but generally they give their franchises plenty of time between entries.
Sense of scale falls under presentation. It doesn't change the gameplay.
There were a bunch of DS Zelda games. There's such a thing as franchise fatigue. This is something the more hardcore Nintendo fans don't seem to realise though
To add to this, the game play between Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario Galaxy changed a lot more than the game play differences between GTA4 and GTA5. Now I'm not saying that Mario is better than GTA or GTA is better than Mario. I'm not saying that GTA4 is as good or big as GTA5. I'm not even saying that there weren't big gameplay changes for GTA.
I'm just pointing out that gameplay changes can't be the issue here.
SporeCrawler
Member
Ah, this is understandable, it's a $300 console with $60 games, the games are going to cost $60 on the other more powerful consoles too. If this looks like an experience that could be done on the cheaper 3DS, with cheaper games too, why not do it on the 3DS? If Wii Party U is what *you have in mind for using the gamepad and I'm not interested in it, why do I have to pay the extra money for a part of the console that I don't want to buy just to get access to games that I could have gotten for my 3DS/cheaper consoles? If you want to make another Mario Kart and charge $60, it could have been done for the cheaper 3DS (and it has been done on the 3DS already). I've likened it to the game console now being a device that is like a "ticket to Universal Studios rather than to the carnival" (Wii Party U does look like it'd be nice at a carnival
) *"you" being NintendoYep, agreed. I think Mario 3D Wii U could end up being the best game of the generation, but I'm in franchise fatigue, so it won't matter. I'm tired of Mario. Maybe the next generation (after Wii U) my franchise fatigue will be gone.
There were two. Over two years apart.
Yes, there are always examples of outliers in any situation. But the general trend of the industry is story and presentation first. And I can enjoy games that are like that. It's not like it's horrible that games like that exist. I do think it sucks that games like that are soooo prevalent to the point that people are putting down Nintendo's (generally) gameplay first mentality, just because they're games aren't pushing graphical boundaries.
Yeah, well when you have two systems you can expect to see the same franchise on both systems. That's hardly a fault of Nintendo's.
I've been playing Zelda games frequently for 20 years. It doesn't matter if they have a few years between each one, I'm tired. I'm so tired.
Also for those comparing GTA to Mario for franchise fatigue or staleness, I think the big difference is that most of us have been playing Mario since we decided to put down the light gun (duck hunt) on christmas morning and select that other option on the start screen.
Whether or not they've had the same games for a specific period is irregardless for franchise fatigue. Well actually it also factors in definitely. I personally skipped GTA for PSP and GTA4 due to franchise fatigue, but this Mario franchise fatigue is a completely different ballpark.
Whether or not they've had the same games for a specific period is irregardless for franchise fatigue. Well actually it also factors in definitely. I personally skipped GTA for PSP and GTA4 due to franchise fatigue, but this Mario franchise fatigue is a completely different ballpark.
What is this nonsense?
I'm quite against the obsession with "newness". One is free to attempt to blow me away with something that is completely new, novel, and never been done before (not that that's actually possible, but that's a bit of a tangent), and if it turns out to be a home run that does everything right, then great! You've created a new classic that will hopefully lead to many competent imitations. The vast majority of the time however, these "new experiences" are either not very good on their own, or are not any better than the experiences I've already grown to love. Minecraft is a fine enough title to play around in and I'm glad it exists, but it isn't really a truly remarkable game that I find myself going back to again and again. I end up getting more excited for a neat looking 2D platformer or RPG or 4X strategy games because, surprise, I like 2D platformers and RPGs and 4X strategy games. You stick with what's familiar and comfortable because it is good.
That's my take anyway. It just makes no sense to me that I can get "tired" of my favorite types of games to the point where I actively don't play them anymore just because they're my favorite and I've played a lot of them. I will gladly play the same games over and over again until the day I die and I will not apologize one bit for that.
Freezie KO
Banned
It's erroneous to call games like League of Legends, Minecraft, Call of Duty, and Angry Birds "outliers". I mean, those are a collection of THE games of the moment. They're certainly selling more than Bioshock.
As for Nintendo's gameplay first mentality, it was a lot easier to champion when each of their games wasn't a direct sequel of the last. Their biggest games like Mario 3D World, NSMBU/2/Lu, Donkey Kong Country, Wii Fit, Wii Party, and remakes like Windwaker and Wii Sports aren't breaking the kind of new ground that Galaxy did. And that's not presentation. That's gameplay. Which only exacerbates people's problems with the presentation.
SporeCrawler
Member
body harvest?
Then dont play them. No one should suffer through having Zelda turn into something else because Alison got tired of the basic Zelda adventure formula after playing for 20 years,
A formula that is still copied in various shapes and forms by other developers, regardless of your silly idea that if it isnt a copycat, it was not influenced by it.
Android18a
Member
I, too, feel like Nintendo has lost me.
I turned 30 this year, but I'd felt it for the last couple of years. Nintendo got me through my pre-teen and teenage years, was still a big fan in my 20s. But recently, I dunno. It feels like "my" Nintendo isn't there anymore. I'm seeing the old characters, but I don't have the same feelings I used to when I play the games. The games feel like imitations of what came before rather than true sequels and fresh ideas.
Pokemon is the exception, still love it and hyped for XY. In that regard, I think Pokemon's lack of innovation actually helps it? Hard to say.
I turned 30 this year, but I'd felt it for the last couple of years. Nintendo got me through my pre-teen and teenage years, was still a big fan in my 20s. But recently, I dunno. It feels like "my" Nintendo isn't there anymore. I'm seeing the old characters, but I don't have the same feelings I used to when I play the games. The games feel like imitations of what came before rather than true sequels and fresh ideas.
Pokemon is the exception, still love it and hyped for XY. In that regard, I think Pokemon's lack of innovation actually helps it? Hard to say.
astroturfing
Member
my love faded with Twilight Princess... that game, i just can't. i tried for years, but i can't help but feel that it's the most boring and soulless game i've ever touched. it made me sad, and i put my Gamecube in the closet.
Metroid Prime 2 didn't help either (i absolutely hate "light/dark" worlds/dimensions in games). huge disappointment after the genius of Prime 1.
i'm considering maybe getting a 3DS though, if only so i could play my old DS games, since my DS Lite suddenly decided to stop working years ago.
Metroid Prime 2 didn't help either (i absolutely hate "light/dark" worlds/dimensions in games). huge disappointment after the genius of Prime 1.
i'm considering maybe getting a 3DS though, if only so i could play my old DS games, since my DS Lite suddenly decided to stop working years ago.
I will say that I have experienced Mario fatigue, but only with the NSMB series. In fact, I thought I hated the series until I played NSMBU which I love. Honestly, I think it's the best 2D Mario since Super Mario World and it's not too far behind that.
I have not experienced fatigue with 3D Mario, Kart, Smash, Zelda, or Pokemon.. and no other Nintendo franchise is repeated enough to warrant fatigue.
I have not experienced fatigue with 3D Mario, Kart, Smash, Zelda, or Pokemon.. and no other Nintendo franchise is repeated enough to warrant fatigue.
I get tired of the same presentation. If Mario 3D Land on Wii was the same game with a different style and characters, I'd probably be a lot less resentful of it. As it is, it's just another Mario game, and not only that but it looks near identical to a 3DS game I played last year.
The game will be good. No doubt about it. 3D Land on 3DS was good. But I'm not going to buy a console to play it, and I can't get excited about a game just because I know it's well made. You have to try harder to get me excited.
Sure, but they still don't follow the general trend of what seems to be popular in the industry, making them outliers. At least as far as what I've observed.
and yeah, those are a lot of sequels... but they still do things with the gameplay that the earlier games didn't or couldn't do. 3D World is adding multiplayer for the first time in a 3D Mario, and allllll of the other new things we've seen in the trailers. NSMBU added the Gamepad for a unique multiplayer experience never seen before, and it added the challenge mode, which is pure platforming joy. Wii Party is obviously doing things that were never done before because of the gamepad. Donkey Kong doesn't seem to be doing too much new, but ironically that is the game most people seemed most excited for. And you're right about Wii Fit and the remakes.
So then Nintendo does some new and they do some old. So then why do they get blasted by the "hardcore" when the rest of the industry gets away with doing the same thing?
(hint, it's because of presentation)
Case in point. I'm out.
"I know it will be good but I don't care because it doesn't make me 'excited'" What kind of insane logic is this? Do you treat your video games like they're porn or something?
Or maybe what you were trying to say was "I don't have the money to justify getting a Wii U+Mario in lieu of other purchases" which is a completely defensible position but very different from the argument you've been putting forth in this thread.
maverick40
Junior Member
They lost me after the GameCube. They are a shadow of their former selves with the 2ds and one of the worst consoles ever created the Wii U. The biggest regret of 300 euro I have ever spent.
Their games are the same every time just sequels upon sequels. Where are Nintendo's versions of the last of us, beyond: two souls or BioShock: infinite where they push the industry in different and mature directions? There is no excitement at Nintendo anymore and the sooner they realise that the crowd they got for the Wii how now gone to candy crush on their phone the better.
They are a company that are selling nostalgia every time
Their games are the same every time just sequels upon sequels. Where are Nintendo's versions of the last of us, beyond: two souls or BioShock: infinite where they push the industry in different and mature directions? There is no excitement at Nintendo anymore and the sooner they realise that the crowd they got for the Wii how now gone to candy crush on their phone the better.
They are a company that are selling nostalgia every time
Your claim not mine. The burden of proof lies on your side of the court so please shows us how no nintendo game now, Zelda included, isn't being watched by other developers doing similar (or not so similar) games when doing game design documents.
Prove me that a developer doing an adventure game today doesn't look at the SS.
That someone making a JRPG doesn't consider Xenoblade as a product to be influenced by.
That console RTSs don't look at Pikmin or Fire Emblem, and that a platformer developer doesn't get up to speed to what the Mario 3D or 2D games are doing these days before releasing their contribution to the world.
And this isn't even considering that influences don't necessarily need to come from products that fall in the same genre.
Your claim, now back it up.
I like the types of games you listed too, but being "mature" really means liking things because you like them and not concerning yourself whether it's not too "kiddish or colorful".
There's nothing like deriding Nintendo for being unoriginal and then in the same breath lamenting that they don't make their own versions of already-derivative titles in other genres.
maverick40
Junior Member
That is not what I meant by mature sorry about that. What I meant is mature in tone and story that creates different emotions in gamers. Like brothers for example or journey! Nintendo are making none of these and they are just playing it to safe now
Freezie KO
Banned
The games mentioned aren't following trends. They're creating them. Call of Duty is at the forefront of online multiplayer. So is League of Legends in its own way. That's influencing things from persistent worlds to online co-op to online competition and e-sports. Huge upcoming titles like The Division and Titanfall and Killzone are all following the trend of bringing gaming online. Some to a more permanent state of being online.
Angry Birds on the other hand, is all about gameplay, but from a more casual perspective. My mother plays Dots on her iPad. She used to beat me with a railroad spike for playing Donkey Kong, but now she's a gamer. (that first part may not be true) Tons of people are playing Candy Crush due to simplicity and ease-of-access, and it has nothing to do with poorly-written zombie cutscenes.
These are two examples of areas where Nintendo just isn't competing, but it's no less gameplay-driven. I can't say I agree that the general trend is towards cinematic stories. Sure, that's one trend. But there are just as many examples of gameplay being the primary driver of sales.
Probably varies from person to person. Personally, I blast them for their rehashes because I expect more from them and I think they're capable of delivering more. If I cared about Bioshock (can't even name the developer), then maybe I'd criticize them instead.
My claim is relative to the biggest games in the industry today, in which case I have no need to talk about console RTS', JRPGs or "adventure games".
If you think Nintendo are actually doing innovative and interesting things in their game design, go ahead. I don't have any intention of trying to convince a Nintendo fanboy they're incorrect in their love of the company. I'm not foolish enough to even begin arguing with you, as I've had the pleasure of reading NeoGAF for long enough to know what you're all about.
Ah, I see what you're saying. I think X and Bayonetta will fill some of those holes next year. I agree that they could do more in this category and wish they would utilize franchises like Metroid more.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
"Nintendo don't influence anything anymore" is a strange thing to use to mark them down.
And even so, such statement is debatable.
And even so, such statement is debatable.
I didn't make myself clear and my use of the word outlier was incorrect. I hadn't fully put my thoughts together, and I'll take the blame for that, but the trend that I'm talking about is the trend of the AAA single player experience. For whatever reason, it seems like people enjoy gameplay in their multiplayer games and in their iphone diversions, but not in their single player home console games. So it appears that the industry is going with this trend. And since what I mostly enjoy playing is single player home console games (even though I do enjoy some good multiplayer every now and then), I think it's a shame that I'm seeing this trend. So when I see people ridicule Nintendo and praise games like Bioshock... Well it only reinforces my feelings that the trend of the single player gamer is that they don't care much for gameplay.
What you are talking about is fine, but it ignores what Nintendo prides itself in doing better than most others.
Yes, Brothers and Journey are interesting and VERY well crafted experiments in game design. Yes, it would be fascinating to see Nintendo explore more thoughtful, intimate experiences.
But that's not what they do, nor should it have to be. To make a really good dungeon in Zelda takes an insane amount of effort and care. The amount of time and effort put into making one piece of a room work, which an entire temple's worth of puzzles revolve around must be insane. If it wasn't, more people would be doing it - maybe better. That's what they do well.
They focus on their strengths which is pure fun game design. I don't see how that makes them a "shadow of their former selves" when they still do that and do it well
Alison, I just want to say thanks for being a disenting opinion in a Nintendo thread, yet keeping it classy. Too many times these things devolve into name calling, but thankfully you are too composed for that.
Thanks.
And I love Nintendo more than all the cake in the world, but I do agree with you that there is franchise fatigue. Majorly. But Im optimistic that the Wii U will have years to show us a lot of new things. I think Nintendo will have all the regular players (Smash, Kart, 2D and 3D Mario) out so early in the Wii U lifecycle that maybe we can get into some crazier stuff.
At the end of the day, even though I own all three current systems and play everything from Gears to Heavy Rain to Guacamelee to Animal Crossing, I always come back to Nintendo because, tired presentation or not, they offer the best gaming for me. The controls, the pacing, the immersion (this might be a confusing one... the cohesiveness of the worlds in Nintendo games is pretty unmatched) are almost always above everyone else in the industry.
I fear for where Nintendo is headed. Listen, Ill buy Nintendo machines forever. But if they continue down their current path they are going to be more akin to LeapFrog than to Playstation. A system that only runs Nintendo first and second party games. And of course, I will buy the shit out of it. But they are being pushed, or putting themselves, into a corner where gamers only go to them for Nintendo-type titles.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
And yet you're the poster in this thread who is blatantly ignoring people proving points wrong and waving them away when presented with actual release dates, changing your own argument to dodge and suit your needs, while waving away other people's opinions in response to your own.
If we're looking for the worst poster in the thread, which you seem quick to accuse people of when they present valid opposition, perhaps a mirror will suffice.
Domcorleone
Member
For me it has been the exact opposite. I have been away from Nintendo long enough to appreciate heavily mechanic driven games, even if they are the Zeldas and Marios. I bought a 3Ds recently and have been in absolute love. I dont touch my vita anymore (until Tearaway). The Wii U was a bust at launch but now I am playing Wind Waker and I love it as well. I will be getting Mario 3D world, Pikmin, W101 and DKCTF soon. Good times.
When does their influence stop being 'valid', i wonder? Their work in the 80's will have influenced almost every developer on the planet. And plenty of Sony and MS's first party output has had more than a little whiff of Nintendo in recent years. I mean, have you seenPlaystation Allstars Battle Royal? It's basically a cover version of Smash Bros.
The biggest games in the industry today are shooters with the same game design from the early 90s, MOBAs designed from the early 2000s, MMOs with game design going back to EVERQUEST, and TPS spawned from the design of Resident Evil 4 from 2005. All of them sprinkled with JRPG trappings.
You're going to go after Nintendo for their "inability" to influence game design when the biggest games in the industry are based on shit from 10-20 or even 30 years ago? Bull. Shit.
I bought tons of games on Wii, more than on any other console before it. It counts for both 1st and 3rd party games. I enjoyed most of those games just like I did back as a kid, though of course with every new generation, the freshness is fading away. Games simply can't feel as new as back when 8bit games were something out of this world. Now a days, I watch the latest PC games and they don't do anything for me no matter how great the graphics are or how vast the world is. But I still enjoy games, be it Nintendo's offering or some 3rd party game. For example on Wii U I think one of the best experiences have come from games like Zombie U and Batman: AC, and I'm looking forward to many 3rd party games. But still every new Nintendo game brings back my childhood memories, they are simply so fun to play. And the best Nintendo games are still coming, like Mario 3D World. SO I have no worries about the future of Nintendo games
TheMagician
Member
One of the most cringe worthy comments I've read on here I'm a while. Nintendo pushed the industry in more different directions with the DS and Wii than anyone had done since the original Playstation.
As for the whole 'mature' thing...*cringe*
Can you image a film fan or critic getting on the back of Pixar for not being 'mature'?
This was basically me when the Wii came out. I was like "ugh, Nintendo going gimmicky". It took me a few years, but I came back around. There's a time where you start missing the what they have to offer. Zelda, Smash and Mario Kart are their franchises that I always come back to. I love all gaming, but it's hard to have that much fun elsewhere.