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[Gattsu25]

LOLOLOLOL

Yeah, for any faults I had with TDKR, Bane's dialogue was definitely not one of them.

His voice was fucking terrible.

Almost impossible to understand what he was hearing in like 1/3 of the theatres the film aired in.

 

[Replicant]

Academy Award™ Winning Performance, Ladies and Gents!

This film should have been called GCPD: The Movie. Half of the movie is about GCPD vs the thugs instead of Batman.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

It was just a bad movie all around. Weak plot, weak villains, too many inconsistencies,... just all around disappointing. Even the cinematography was bad at times which you wouldn't expect from Nolan.
Tom Hardy was awesome but he couldn't salvage that train wreck of a movie.

The only kind of film criticism most of GAF respects. Can you make an awkward GIF from anything in the movie? If so, it's trash.

I could make a gif of the scene where Bruce ask Talia how Fox is ~5 seconds after meeting Fox.

 

[TheOMan]

I never got the criticism here.

Her entire character was a bratty kid trying to outdo her father, and she failed completely. Fitting that she dies pathetically and hilariously in contrast to her dads dignified as fuck exit.

It's that her acting in that scene is absolutely terrible.

 

[samn]

The problem with Christopher Nolan's films is that he doesn't really understand what he's talking about.

He throws a lot of THEMES and IMPORTANT STUFF at the screen and hopes you'll think it's deep and interesting without really being able to articulate why.

 

[low-G]

At the time, I thought the point was the agree with the villains but ultimately think they went a little too far.

 

[Window]

The parallels to the Occupy movement were actually quite widely discussed at the time of the film's release. The Nolan trilogy is quite entertaining but yes TDK and TDKR are conservative in their outlook of the world.

 

[AgentLampshade]

I had alarm bells as soon as I heard 8 year timeskip and crime free streets. There is no conceivable way ALL MAJOR CRIME IN GOTHAM has stopped due to one event. Wasn't that the point of the ending of Dark Knight? That Batman could take the heat and do whatever was necessary to save others, even if it meant taking the blame for a crime he didn't commit.

You want to skip ahead 8 years after that? Fine. Only it shouldn't have been Batman who disappeared, it should have been Bruce Wayne to get the reputation of a recluse because he's too busy fighting the power vacuum both he and Dent caused. And that's when Bane appears - a more monstrous foe even (a fatigued and worn down) Batman couldn't handle - who breaks his back and whisks him away while he does his warlord thing in Gotham (though I'd have had him bully the former mob bosses just to help show off his power more. It also helps the image of him being in complete control of Gotham if he had access to both the League of Shadows and the mob connections). Have a few scenes of Catwoman being all "oh is this what I REALLY wanted?" before Bruces return to Gotham. Talia doesn't exist in this version. Found her whole existence tacked on and pointless. Bruce works together with Selina to bring down Bane, they spend the night together and she makes off with that necklace she tried to steal at the start. Movie ends ambiguously with Bruce contemplating hunting her down.

Also Alfred only pretends to leave Bruce, and helps him after his return to Gotham by giving him intel on Bane. "You never gave up on me?"

"Nevah."

Edit: oh shit how could I forget JGLs Mr Perfect character. Yeah I'd have him as a rookie cop who gets lucky. I'd axe his screentime in favour of Gordon though. Dude was in every scene doing the right things. No-ones that perfect.

 

[Secret Fawful]

Capitalism was just a red herring

So what you're saying is that what OP is saying is that Nolan made this film because he hates me, and not only did he hate me but:

So the answer to the politics of TDKR is not one plus two plus two plus one but one plus two plus one plus one.

 

[hobozero]

I had alarm bells as soon as I heard 8 year timeskip and crime free streets. There is no conceivable way ALL MAJOR CRIME IN GOTHAM has stopped due to one event. Wasn't that the point of the ending of Dark Knight? That Batman could take the heat and do whatever was necessary to save others, even if it meant taking the blame for a crime he didn't commit.

I always took it as the Dent Act was a reference to the PATRIOT Act: a major, city disrupting attack had occurred, and the government used the tragedy to enact and enforce a law that gave sweeping powers to the cops. They call out specifically that the Blackgate prison is full of people arrested and convicted under the Dent Act - so presumably they wouldn't have been convicted otherwise. Meaning the Act lessened the needed burden of proof, or allowed police greater surveillance powers, or maybe just let them lock up anyone who looked at them crossways.

TDKR is the repudiation of the conclusion of TDK. TDK says, hey, its ok to enact massive surveillance states, cover up the truth about murderous officials, interrogate people by dropping Eric Roberts from a fire escape. You do what you gotta do to stop the bad guys. In TDKR, the streets are (relatively) crime free, but Gotham is a fascist state, and this has just covered up the problem and allowed anti-government sentiments to brew from criminals and the underclass. Which then gets exploited.

I think their point was, the decisions made in TDK were wrong. Covering this up wrecked Gothem, wrecked Jim Gordon's life, made Wayne a recluse, imprisoned a ton of people, and drove a wedge between Bruce and Michael Caine, and allowed a fanatic to exploit the city's latent anger.

I don't mind the politics of The Dark Knight, because i think The Dark Knight Rises knocks them down pretty effectively. By the end, we are left with a Robin who recognizes the failures of Batman and Gordon, so the cycle might be broken.

 

[SamuelSupreme]

I always took it as the Dent Act was a reference to the PATRIOT Act: a major, city disrupting attack had occurred, and the government used the tragedy to enact and enforce a law that gave sweeping powers to the cops. They call out specifically that the Blackgate prison is full of people arrested and convicted under the Dent Act - so presumably they wouldn't have been convicted otherwise. Meaning the Act lessened the needed burden of proof, or allowed police greater surveillance powers, or maybe just let them lock up anyone who looked at them crossways.

TDKR is the repudiation of the conclusion of TDK. TDK says, hey, its ok to enact massive surveillance states, cover up the truth about murderous officials, interrogate people by dropping Eric Roberts from a fire escape. You do what you gotta do to stop the bad guys. In TDKR, the streets are (relatively) crime free, but Gotham is a fascist state, and this has just covered up the problem and allowed anti-government sentiments to brew from criminals and the underclass. Which then gets exploited.

I think their point was, the decisions made in TDK were wrong. Covering this up wrecked Gothem, wrecked Jim Gordon's life, made Wayne a recluse, imprisoned a ton of people, and drove a wedge between Bruce and Michael Caine, and allowed a fanatic to exploit the city's latent anger.

I don't mind the politics of The Dark Knight, because i think The Dark Knight Rises knocks them down pretty effectively. By the end, we are left with a Robin who recognizes the failures of Batman and Gordon, so the cycle might be broken.

This was a really good analysis of why the TDKR succeeds at being a satisfying finale to the GOAT Superhero Trilogy.

 

[AxelFoley]

One problem I had with this movie is at the very beginning: why didn't Pavel tell the CIA that they had Bane in their possession as soon as they got on the plane? I'd be like, "It's him! It's Bane! Kill him!"

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

It's a shit-tier movie and not worth analysing. Nothing makes sense in it.

 

[darkwing-buck]

I liked it. Thought the Bane vs Batman fight was great.

 

[GrantDaNasty]

Hmm.

Y'know, I never really took a critical eye to Dark Knight Rises. Hell, I practically never do that with any film for that matter, but based on the points you raise, I see what you mean about "a revolution without need" because as we're shown, even if the 1% are screwing everyone else over in some way, things in Gotham weren't all that bad to constitute a war against "the elite". Maybe the novelization had more written in about this or some Ultimate Edition has additional scenes, but the theatrical cut certainly never really shows that the lower and middle class are in any real dire straits.

 

[JB1981]

I always took it as the Dent Act was a reference to the PATRIOT Act: a major, city disrupting attack had occurred, and the government used the tragedy to enact and enforce a law that gave sweeping powers to the cops. They call out specifically that the Blackgate prison is full of people arrested and convicted under the Dent Act - so presumably they wouldn't have been convicted otherwise. Meaning the Act lessened the needed burden of proof, or allowed police greater surveillance powers, or maybe just let them lock up anyone who looked at them crossways.

TDKR is the repudiation of the conclusion of TDK. TDK says, hey, its ok to enact massive surveillance states, cover up the truth about murderous officials, interrogate people by dropping Eric Roberts from a fire escape. You do what you gotta do to stop the bad guys. In TDKR, the streets are (relatively) crime free, but Gotham is a fascist state, and this has just covered up the problem and allowed anti-government sentiments to brew from criminals and the underclass. Which then gets exploited.

I think their point was, the decisions made in TDK were wrong. Covering this up wrecked Gothem, wrecked Jim Gordon's life, made Wayne a recluse, imprisoned a ton of people, and drove a wedge between Bruce and Michael Caine, and allowed a fanatic to exploit the city's latent anger.

I don't mind the politics of The Dark Knight, because i think The Dark Knight Rises knocks them down pretty effectively. By the end, we are left with a Robin who recognizes the failures of Batman and Gordon, so the cycle might be broken.

Well done sir

 

[TheOMan]

I always took it as the Dent Act was a reference to the PATRIOT Act: a major, city disrupting attack had occurred, and the government used the tragedy to enact and enforce a law that gave sweeping powers to the cops. They call out specifically that the Blackgate prison is full of people arrested and convicted under the Dent Act - so presumably they wouldn't have been convicted otherwise. Meaning the Act lessened the needed burden of proof, or allowed police greater surveillance powers, or maybe just let them lock up anyone who looked at them crossways.

TDKR is the repudiation of the conclusion of TDK. TDK says, hey, its ok to enact massive surveillance states, cover up the truth about murderous officials, interrogate people by dropping Eric Roberts from a fire escape. You do what you gotta do to stop the bad guys. In TDKR, the streets are (relatively) crime free, but Gotham is a fascist state, and this has just covered up the problem and allowed anti-government sentiments to brew from criminals and the underclass. Which then gets exploited.

I think their point was, the decisions made in TDK were wrong. Covering this up wrecked Gothem, wrecked Jim Gordon's life, made Wayne a recluse, imprisoned a ton of people, and drove a wedge between Bruce and Michael Caine, and allowed a fanatic to exploit the city's latent anger.

I don't mind the politics of The Dark Knight, because i think The Dark Knight Rises knocks them down pretty effectively. By the end, we are left with a Robin who recognizes the failures of Batman and Gordon, so the cycle might be broken.

You did a better job of explaining that than the movie did!

 

[water_wendi]

i forgive it of all its sins because it gave us "This isnt a caaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrr!"

 

[Jackpot]

Being rich is a super-power.

The "theme" of the movie was most evident when Catwoman is in a trashed home and her ditzy friend goes "Now it's everybody's home!"

 

[The Dutch Slayer]

All true and I still loved it.

 

[kiguel182]

The movie paints the rich guys as victims and the people wanting to have some equality as the villains. Even with all of those problems that made me dislike the movie the most.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

I was so excited for this movie, but I had the same reaction as the OP walking out of the theatre. It tried to draw broad lines of order vs. chaos, dark vs. absolute blackness, law vs. social decay.

But the way it did so, it really felt like Batman was used as a vehicle for a somewhat oppressive strongman view of order in society. Tonally, it just felt off-key for the character, who works better as an inspirational model for self-mastery, rather than top-down imposition.

 

[DedValve]

I love Dark Knight Rises but I hated two scenes.

the Flaming Bat Symbol on the bridge, which must of took a long ass time to prepare for
and Talia's death scene.

Otherwise it's a solid 8 / 10 for me

Dark Knight is a 10
Begins is a 9.

fight me gaf!

*chuckles* I'd like to think he had that shit set up since Begins and has just been dying to use it. After all this is Batman.

 

[AuthenticM]

Speculation that the global economic recession and the Occupy Wall Street were the inspiration for the final movie in Christopher Nolans' Batman trilogy have been dismissed by both the director and his co-scenarist brother Jonathan.

The script had in fact been decided on before these events. Instead the two acknowledged that the inspiration for the movie came from A Tale of Two Cities, Charles Dickens' classic novel about the French revolution.

and like deus ex, I recall them saying any parallels to real life were co-incidental, which sounds like bs

They are lying. The parallels are too strong for them to be a coïncidence. They're just fucking lying. And even if it were true, it wouldn't dismiss any of the valid points TC has made.

Good post, TC. There is nothing amateur about your analysis. I got the same thing when I walked out of the theatre. The movie is super dishonest, and also falls in line with Nolan's movies being angled towards conservatism (and patriarchy).

 

[Ninjimbo]

OP and Armond White would get along.

 

[BeautifulMemory]

What was Talia's plan again? Wouldn't detonating the nuclear bomb effectively kill her and Bane too?

 

[Maledict]

They are lying. The parallels are too strong for them to be a coïncidence. They're just fucking lying. And even if it were true, it wouldn't dismiss any of the valid points TC has made.

Good post, TC. There is nothing amateur about your analysis. I got the same thing when I walked out of the theatre. The movie is super dishonest, and also falls in line with Nolan's movies being angled towards conservatism (and patriarchy).

Seriously, Tale of Two Cities is a classic, and has more in common with DKR that OWS. also, look at the timeline - OWS started in September 2011, DKR was released in July 2012. there simply isn't enough time for him to be influenced by OWS. It's far more linked to Tale of Two cities thematically and narrative wise.

In terms of the moral message, it's fascinating how people can have completely the opposite opinion on the film. Like the poster above, for me DKR was a complete repudiation of the "strongman" message of DK. Everything batman did in DK turned to ash because of his actions - exactly the opposite of what you got from the film.

 

[Mighty Chin]

What was Talia's plan again? Wouldn't detonating the nuclear bomb effectively kill her and Bane too?

Did she even like her father?

 

[Nemesis121]

I like TDKR, the reason it gets hated on, TDR was so fucking good, it's predecessor is the pinnacle of comic book movies IMO, just too much to live up too..

 

[RustyNails]

I love Dark Knight Rises but I hated two scenes.

the Flaming Bat Symbol on the bridge, which must of took a long ass time to prepare for
and Talia's death scene.

Otherwise it's a solid 8 / 10 for me

Dark Knight is a 10
Begins is a 9.

fight me gaf!

I will fight you. The fire bat symbol criticism is the biggest bullshit you nerds throw around in a movie about the fucking batman. Theatricality and Deception are powerful weapons. Did you forget that? Or what about the title itself? That scene was pivotal to announce the return of batman. Everyone thought he left, and this was to show that he returned. Any time and effort involved to create that is well spent. It galvanized the police force to fight the bad guys, and also made that guy come out of hiding.

 

[hydruxo]

The film has its share of issues when you look at it in retrospect but seeing it at midnight when it came out was the best movie experience I've ever had at a theater. I still love TDKR.

 

[Emarv]

I actually just finished rewatching it the other day and totally agree, OP. It's a mess.

 

[Moon Patrol Pilot]

Seriously, Tale of Two Cities is a classic, and has more in common with DKR that OWS. also, look at the timeline - OWS started in September 2011, DKR was released in July 2012. there simply isn't enough time for him to be influenced by OWS. It's far more linked to Tale of Two cities thematically and narrative wise.

In terms of the moral message, it's fascinating how people can have completely the opposite opinion on the film. Like the poster above, for me DKR was a complete repudiation of the "strongman" message of DK. Everything batman did in DK turned to ash because of his actions - exactly the opposite of what you got from the film.

I read Tale of Two Cities more than 20 years ago in high school, but when we watched this film in the theaters, I more than once turned to my wife and whispered "wow, this is so Tale of Two Cities!". She just shook her head at me and called me a nerd.

I agree with this post. DKR had people theorizing different messages at opposite ends of the spectrum which is totally fine, because you know, opinions.

 

[Astral Dog]

The revolution was always a farce to cover up Banes revenge plot against Batman and the death of Ras al Ghul. he was expulsed from the League for being dangerous, Bane and Thalia came up with a plan.

i thought it was established they lacked the same wisdom/ideals Duckard had.

 

[Strangelove77]

The thing that always grates me is that the cops are the stupidest cops ever on film. They're such fucking idiots.
I also hate how much time is devoted to "Robin." They could have used that time to flesh out more important things.

Also - Bane being a really fantastic villain both physically and intellectually, then turning into a weak lacky at the end.

 

[Eidan]

They are lying. The parallels are too strong for them to be a coïncidence. They're just fucking lying. And even if it were true, it wouldn't dismiss any of the valid points TC has made.

Good post, TC. There is nothing amateur about your analysis. I got the same thing when I walked out of the theatre. The movie is super dishonest, and also falls in line with Nolan's movies being angled towards conservatism (and patriarchy).

This is the silliest goddamn thing I've read here in a while. When all else fails, simply accuse Nolan of lying about the inspiration for his film. Why would he lie? To what end? To stifle you and others' ability to make half baked critiques on Internet video game forums?

 

[JB1981]

You did a better job of explaining that than the movie did!

The movie explains it fine. TDKR is absolutely a repudiation of the decisions made in TDK. TDK was about how lies and deception are used to maintain the facade of law and order.

https://youtu.be/dhpjKX1j-KQ