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I Just Finished Breaking Bad Last Night, Can't Fathom The Skyler Hate (Spoilers)

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you're being difficult and trying to tie this into the toxic masculinity thing again, i'm assuming.

"Being difficult"

No, I'm responding to your posts, which you made in reply to me originally. My whole conceit is that his ego is tied into his desire to be a real man, so what did you expect me to talk about? What did you expect would happen when you got into a conversation about Walt's feelings and motives with someone who very clearly expressed what his feelings and motives were fueled by?
 

Rembrandt

Banned
"Being difficult"

No, I'm responding to your posts, which you made in reply to me originally. My whole conceit is that his ego is tied into his desire to be a real man, so what did you expect me to talk about? What did you expect would happen when you got into a conversation about Walt's feelings and motives with someone who very clearly expressed what his feelings and motives were fueled by?

I didn't expect you to go from both to just ego again.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
and it wouldn't be true either, which is my point. why take anything he says as fact when he's shown to be a manipulator and why believe it has to be ego or family and not both?
That's stupid. When Walt lies or manipulates others, it's because he has something to gain from it. This isn't the case there. He has no reason to lie to Skyler in that scene. And it's clearly a statement full of finality, and one of the rare moments where he's being completely honest about himself, and his actions. No one who'd watch that scene could honestly and sincerely interpret that as Walt lying (with the truth really being "it really was for the family all along") unless they go through immense mental gymnastics.

Plus, y'know, Gilligan being pretty explicit about the whole deal.
 
I guess I can see the misogyny angle a little bit, but at the same time I didn't like her either. I also didn't like Walt by the end of it though, so there's that.

I think a lot of people don't like her because she's just a huge buzzkill and always seems like an afterthought to the story. She has a character arc but I never clicked with her because she never seemed as fleshed out as Walter, Jesse or any of the others.

For me she's really one of the few downsides to the story overall. Lots of missed opportunity I think.

The only sympathy for any of the characters I had coming out of the series was Jesse and Hank.

I honestly very much disagree with the bolded. If anything, I'd say she was one of the most fantastically developed characters and had much more to her than pretty much anybody else, in that she had a lot of dynamics (internal and external) playing out. While I don't have the time currently (but intend on doing so later depending on how the thread is going) to fully flesh these out, Skyler is, in many ways, the perfect wife for Walter.

At the beginning, yes, she emasculates him and she's the head of the household, but contrary to people thinking we're supposed to hate her for this, I really don't think there's anything wrong with that. Her emasculation is never mean-spirited or demoralising, it's simply a result of her role of managing the finances, which clearly needs to be done as they're strapped for cash and it's a natural fit for her as an accountant, she recognises Walter's spontaneous odd behaviour and naturally becomes worried by an uncharacteristic change in his routine and how he acts, and her care for him and her family at large is evident. Their marriage is quite tepid, sure, and Walter himself is a shell of who he is living out a mundane existence compared to what could have been, but that's hardly 'out of the ordinary'. As the first season progresses, she has to contend with the knowledge that her husband has cancer, but also has to contend with the increasing distance in their marriage combined with the credulous suspicion that her husband has been cheating on her as he's been growing increasingly distant, has disappeared for long periods of times, and is lying continuously to her (and people can say that 'she never knew', but there is enough of an indication that she was justified in her suspicion and could naturally arrive at this decision).

In the second season, this escalates even further. She has to contend with ever-increasing lies developed by Walter, even further distant behaviour and more exaggerated lies, the additional fear of infidelity and suspicion of an even greater secret, the threat that Walter's behaviour is posing to their marriage, and the incoming child. The final revelation that Walter has been lying the entire time about the second phone just serves as a sledgehammer to the idea that Walter has been honest about anything, and signals to her that she can no longer trust Walter, and that she can't stay with somebody lying to her constantly 'just' because he has cancer; it's not fair on her, it's not fair on him.

Even up to this point she isn't really under-developed; these are all interesting aspects to her character in and of themselves, especially when combined with the turbulent family dynamic she has herself, the pride she has, and her own desire for control (not nearly with the same magnitude as Walter's but definitely a factor). She's a competent, clever individual, and unlike many of the leading female roles in television shows featuring a villainous lead, she is a very pro-active character. She plays an integral role in exposing a fundamental flaw in Walter's rationalisation as to why he's doing it, and herself is an interesting, active character who is placed in an interesting position, who loves her family (or the idea of it) as much as Walter claims to love it, but won't let this blind her to the obvious destruction it's facing because of Walter's behaviour.

It's the third season and onwards where some additional, very interesting dynamics begin to enter Skyler's character. The slow acceptance of the illegal activity through Ted, the spiting of Walter in telling him that she's been unfaithful to him just as he's been unfaithful to her (in a different means) to inflict pain on him (the telling of him that is) and to try and manipulate him to leave the marriage, the element of victim-hood she has as she tries to contend with the harsh judgement of all those around her who are completely unaware of what she's going through and how she has no support, the futile ability to try and contend with Walter's continuous manipulations and to secure any 'victory' she can in the face of his scheming. Her gradual willingness to engage in his behaviour, her own manipulation and temptation from the purely practical elements of it, the desire she genuinely has to protect her family, and the sense of control she hopes to have and her naivety in assuming this is possible all serve to add additional material to Skyler's character and things which we should let frame her behaviour.

The fourth season and beyond, where she's further placed in a desperate situation and must contend with Walter's further becoming and acceptance of who he is, and the prideful, egotistical, sociopathic destructiveness he inflicts on all around him also bring her character to interesting places. While she takes the moral high ground, and is clearly a 'good person doing bad things' (a opposed to Walter's 'bad person doing bad things') her own sense of control, pride, and her commitment to her family delude her into thinking she can contain the damage. She is a decent liar, and is certainly well able to manipulate and engage in behaviour in a cold fashion, but she never considers or accepts violence as an answer in contrast to Walter who uses it as a clear tool. Whereas she likes things orderly, in control, and strives in this environment, Walter's thriving in chaos continuously throws her plans off-kilter, and she simply isn't nearly as competent in lying, manipulation, and antisocial behaviour as Walter is, and is desperately unable to contend with him and continuously struggles. She remains complicit, but there is no doubt her moral uptightedness from the previous seasons has become corrupted (finally resulting in her desperately calling for the murder of Jesse as they are about to lose all they've built after finally 'escaping' from it), and enters an oddly symbiotic relationship with Walter over their illegal operations even if she is never as gleeful in the circumstances as he is, and utterly wants out. A telling shot is in Ozymandias; she chooses the knife over the phone when faced with the death of her brother, whereas Walter Junior unflinchingly goes to it and calls the police. She reflects many aspects of Walter, some of them in a much more competent light (she's much more controlled than Walter is, for one), and some of them far more flawed (she's good at manipulation, but not remotely as good as Walter, and certainly isn't nearly as competent at rationalising her own behaviour, recognising the wrong she's doing in not going to the police or leaving, but still doing it anyway).

I think there's a lot more to her character than just this, and a lot of this is very brief and I've not backed up nearly as much as I would like to (instead throwing out a general summary which hits upon a lot of the interesting aspects affecting her behaviour), but I definitely don't agree that she is under-developed at all, she has a huge amount going in her favour in that regard. Whether somebody finds these dynamics interesting, or likes her, is another matter entirely, but I don't think it's fair to say that she isn't developed as well as the other characters; after Walter (or maybe even far beyond him given that he's a, relatively speaking, more simplistic character to discuss), I think she has the most going for her in relation to development, and reading into her character, it's just a lot more understated and subtle than many of the characters more directly in the drug trade element of the show.
 

kavanf1

Member
Excellent post, nails Skyler perfectly and shows not just why she was a great character, but why her behaviour makes complete sense in the context of what she had to deal with.

The main thing I would add for context is that too often Skyler's role as a mother to Walter Junior is completely ignored by her critics. Much of her behaviour is driven by feeling completely trapped by Walt and sacrificing her own mental well being for the sake of her son. Ultimately of course it all comes out anyway but I think that's a hugely significant aspect of her character. She has many flaws but she is a good mother doing whatever she can to protect her son from the fact that his father has become a reprehensible human being - even to the extent that her son ends up hating her (until he finds out the truth for himself).
 

Rembrandt

Banned
I was never both. I said that it could be both, but ultimately that one of the two motivations was there in large part to feed his ego.

That's my point though - even if he is legitimately doing it for family, deep down he's also doing it to feed his ego.

how is that not both?

That's stupid. When Walt lies or manipulates others, it's because he has something to gain from it. This isn't the case there. He has no reason to lie to Skyler in that scene. And it's clearly a statement full of finality, and one of the rare moments where he's being completely honest about himself, and his actions. No one who'd watch that scene could honestly and sincerely interpret that as Walt lying (with the truth really being "it really was for the family all along") unless they go through immense mental gymnastics.

Plus, y'know, Gilligan being pretty explicit about the whole deal.

She literally told him not to tell her it was for the family again; if he was never going to see her again, is having her think he finally told the truth about something, even if it was terrible, not something to gain since she didn't and wouldn't believe it was for the family? and where did I say that was the truth? I just don't believe it was purely ego driven.

death of the author, y'know. have you never seen actors/directors/writers disagree about characters motivations?
 
how is that not both?

Because I think that his ego was the #1. driving force, and never took the position that it was definitely a case of him protecting his family for the sake of his ego. Merely that it could be. My stance has always been that the drug trade was for him. The desire (or excuse) of protecting his family once he's gone could be a factor, but I think it's more likely just another thing to help his ego along.
 

Walpurgis

Banned
She was a party pooper. Here we have Walter and Jesse doing all this fun and exciting shit, and Skyler keeps on causing trouble. Were her concerns legit? Of course. Walter put the family in danger numerous times with assassins and drug lords. And he could have just gotten money from those rich asshole nerds. I didn't like her but I didn't start hating until this.
skylerfuckedted.gif

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Then she started helping Walter and got all angsty.
Bdrown_1814979a.gif

Then she threatened Hank and Marie, and refused to help Hank take down Walter.
tumblr_mrsbnbMXfY1rfaqfjo1_250.gif
 

mephel

Member
screw skylar

i really disliked how advancing the plot made walt act really out of character

he didn't really need any of the supporting characters for his business, if he hadn't have to constantly save jessies ass, they never would've caught him

i am not even sure if i hate jessie or skylar more
 
I think the joke originated from ONTD, but the 'what do you think of Skylar White?' gauge to a guy on a first date could obviously get you some fairly interesting answers. It used to be the Sansa Stark gauge for awhile, but I thankfully don't see as much vitriol towards Sansa these days.

Great write up, OP! Loooove me some Skylar. Like the rest of the cast, she was a beautifully written character who went through a lot of shit and wasn't one-dimensional. Anna Gunn did such a fantastic job with her. Damn, I miss Breaking Bad.
 

Jay-Hova

Banned
People don't really care about understanding characters they don't initially like.
All characters start off as a blank slate for me usually, and I try my best to give each and every character the same amount of analysis so i'm not unjustly judging them.
At times the comments you would see thrown at Skyler were just abhorrent, physically revolting really, and a lot of them came from a place of ignorance towards her and Walt's character.
 

Mista Koo

Member
The only reason to ever root against her, is because you as the viewer are rooting for Walt the whole time. You want to see him get away with things that he shouldn't. You also know that if he stays ahead of the curve it will minimize the repercussions on his family.

Skyler is justified in everything that she does. It's just that she gets in the way. Honestly, I feel like a lot of the hate for her comes directly from misogyny.
Pretty much..

I'm not sure if the show was trying to get us to not root for Walt (especially in seasons 1-4), but if they were then they failed. I think Death Note did it best where the fans were split between rooting for the evil protagonist and his good antagonist.
Please don't spoil Death Note for others in this thread.
 

Karu

Member
The Skyler hate is almost as baffling as the Mike love.
Let's not act like Breaking Bad didn't like to bath in its own glory and badass-ery.

While I think people who genuinely think Skyler is worse than Walt or think she was in the wrong are super weird, Breaking Bad was also part entertaining gangster show about a man who did badass gangster shit. In such an environment (TV show that likes to show what it got) I think it's reasonable to think that Mike is an awesome character.
 
Just finished the series a few weeks ago and god I hated her. I mean, she had some legit concern but the fact that around 80% of her screen time she is either going apeshit or being a bitch towards Walt (legitimately or not) made her annoying as fuck.
 
Some people who write about television have even started to call this "The Skyler White Effect," although it obviously goes back much further than her. It's meant to describe when a female character is shown to make totally rational judgments about the male lead's behavior and is hated for it.

People also hated on Rita on Dexter, who displayed a really reasonable amount of suspicion for the weird shit her boyfriend was doing and would be called a nag for doing so.

And since Carmella comes up, it should be noted that she was often referred to as a nag that fans wanted to have killed off as well. It's almost like the only standard need be that they're women who spoil the immoral man's fun by behaving reasonably.



He did what he did for his own ego. At the end of the show, he admits this.
I don't remember people wanting Carmella to be killed. I think she was a much better written character than Skyler and Edie Falco is a much better actress than Anna Gunn. Carmella didn't do a lot of the shit that Skyler did simply because she knew who she married. Nothing was a surprise to her. She did nag Tony but the Sopranos writing team also made it easy to side with her when she went in on Tony. That didn't happen with Skyler. Carmella was a much more developed character from the start. Skyler wasn't and as I think some people saw Walt's early successes as a triumph because from the begining he had a ball busting wife. As Walt "came up" the Breaking Bad writing team escalated how Skyler behaved and I don't think they succeeded in making her a character you could be sympathetic to until the last season.
 

eso76

Member
Halfway through season 3 so i just hit reply and didn't look at ANYTHING and currently typing with my eyes closed :p

I hated Skyler in season 1, but that's mostly because of Anna Gunn's constant 8 - o face. So far i think her actions are all entirely justifiable (minus sleeping with Ted).

I also came to appreciate Anna's acting a lot more this season. I was especially impressed with her brief speech with her lawyer, when she admits to sleeping with her boss.
She has these 5 seconds of silence during which her face shows like 12 different emotions and i thought it was extremely impressive and believable

Jesse also had a few great moments, but i'm finding his arch to lack a believable progression.
I mean, he just gave that speech in the hospital after being beaten by Hank and two seconds later he's back with Eisenberg and fooling around in the lab.
The episode i just saw yesterday night was him planning to make some extra selling the meth in excess. I would expect the shit he's been through to have changed him, but alas.
 
One's infidelity is not ever "brought on" by the actions of the partner. Skyler was unfaithful all on her own, and with a man who wasn't half of what Walter White was. By its very nature that made her an unsympathetic character for a lot of us.

I mean, Walter is a repulsive person but he's a larger than life figure too, like Napolean. He's always the smartest person in the room. He has admirable traits even though in total the guy is a monster. So for me, I could feel some regard and even empathy, especially with his former partner's success. Skyler is never really admirable, even from the start she's a bit selfish and self-centered.

I find Breaking Bad to be much like The Sopranos in this way. If you look at Tony objectively, he's a bad guy. But he's got clear admirable traits so you root for him anyway. Walter White is similar.

This is perfect. Particularly the comparison to the Sopranos too. WW is a bad guy, that doesn't mean he is not written and acted in such a way that you find yourself rooting for him.
And Skyler was a foil to that, as people have mentioned.

It's also worth noting that when people were really pissed off with her, the show was only in it's 2nd/3rd season, so we didn't yet have the full Walter arc, and a lot of the time she was just being a buzzkill (on a week-by-week episode basis).
 
idk why anyone takes this as absolute bond when he's been shown to lie constantly to hurt peoples feelings or to avoid doing so. just because he said it doesn't make it true. and if it is true, it doesn't have to be just one or the other, it could be both.

you gotta be kidding me
 
All the female characters were poorly written in Breaking Bad. Skyler was the only woman with any hint of depth. It's a man's world in Breaking Bad, the women were all bit players apart from Skyler.
 
You're allowed to dislike a character in a show, it shouldn't matter if it's a male or female character. That part isn't relevant, you just dislike that character. It doesn't automatically make you a misogynist because the character you don't like happens to be female.

I'm a woman, I loved Breaking Bad and I didn't like the character Skyler White in the last few seasons.

I get though that some people love the character Skyler all the way through the show and some people dislike her. Same with Walt, some people loved that character the whole way through and others eventually disliked him in the later seasons. You can dislike those characters and it doesn't mean you hate men or women. What a ridiculous thing to say.
 
No one in this thread, to my knowledge, has been accused of being a misogynist. People have however noted the extremism that exists in the hatebase for the character.
 

Stat Flow

He gonna cry in the car
You're allowed to dislike a character in a show, it shouldn't matter if it's a male or female character. That part isn't relevant, you just dislike that character. It doesn't automatically make you a misogynist because the character you don't like happens to be female.

I'm a woman, I loved Breaking Bad and I didn't like the character Skyler White in the last few seasons.

I get though that some people love the character Skyler all the way through the show and some people dislike her. Same with Walt, some people loved that character the whole way through and others eventually disliked him in the later seasons. You can dislike those characters and it doesn't mean you hate men or women. What a ridiculous thing to say.
Preach.

The Skyler hate is almost as baffling as the Mike love.
You've crossed a line. Mike is amazing and you should feel bad for not thinking so.

Skyler is annoying as fuck.
 
D

Deleted member 1159

Unconfirmed Member
It's not some binary thing where either you're 100% for Skylar or 100% for Walt. They both made their mistakes, though obviously Skylar never killed anyone. I think the series is brilliant because you start off rooting for Walt, the good guy, the school teacher working two jobs who has fallen on hard times...so much so that when he has totally turned heel, you still are rooting for him and resent Skylar for getting in the way of things. On my rewatch, though, knowing what Walt becomes, Skylar makes a lot more sense, even if she handles things imperfectly.

It's a really fucking great show. I should watch it again.
 

aeolist

Banned
"i fucked ted" is the problem? really?

she knows he's dealing fucking meth at that point. she's kicked him out of the house and demanded a divorce, and he's forcibly trying to move back in which puts her and her children in danger.

having sex with the only guy giving her any kind of emotional support doesn't make her a bad person. it's a little shitty for ted to use him as retaliation against walt, but he's not blameless in the situation either.

i seriously want people to consider how they would react if they found out their life partner had been cooking and selling meth in secret for months.
 

Tigress

Member
You're allowed to dislike a character in a show, it shouldn't matter if it's a male or female character. That part isn't relevant, you just dislike that character. It doesn't automatically make you a misogynist because the character you don't like happens to be female.

I'm a woman, I loved Breaking Bad and I didn't like the character Skyler White in the last few seasons.

I get though that some people love the character Skyler all the way through the show and some people dislike her. Same with Walt, some people loved that character the whole way through and others eventually disliked him in the later seasons. You can dislike those characters and it doesn't mean you hate men or women. What a ridiculous thing to say.

Yeah you are allowed to hate any character regarding of gender. But if you haven't noticed that her gender hasn't influenced some people's hate on her you haven't been paying attention. No, just cause you dislike her doesn't make you a sexist or misogynist. But you're not paying attention if you haven't noticed some of the people who hate on her is from people upset a woman is stopping Walt. If it is just cause she is getting in the way of Walt where is the hate on the male characters that get in the way of Walt like his son or his brother in law? There is not such vehement hate on them. And look at what people say about her when they hate her. Reddit is a great place to observe this.

I liked her/was neutral on her until the point that fully went in helping Walt and decided to be just as evil as him (particularly when she was ready to kill some one just in case).
 

andycapps

Member
No it isn't. That's a cheap and easy complaint to make.

Skyler's problem is that she's the only character in the entire show that doesn't actually fit in the show. She doesn't make sense in a show that is inherently surrealistic, because she's a realistic person.

People compliment her for being realistic, but realistic is the wrong choice for her character to be in the show. Every other woman in the show is fine--nobody complains about them--because they fit the surrealistic attitude of the show that has a severed head on a tortoise and a pink teddybear floating in a pool and a guy who shouts THIS. IS NOT METH. and a weird old dude in a wheelchair who rings a bell and Colonel Sanders who was originally a Chilean revolutionary and twins who are introduced praying to Lady Catarina (iirc?) and so on and so forth.

The show is weird. It's dreamlike. There's a strangeness to it.

And Skyler is the person who threatens to make Walter MUNDANE. She is the person who basically wants Walter to stop destroying himself and everything around him. She's reason in a sea of crazy. And we're watching the show for the crazy. We aren't watching it for the sanity.

She'd be absolutely perfect in a show that was realistic and grounded, but that's not Breaking Bad. She doesn't fit in Breaking Bad. She's this consistently jarring character. She breaks the mood. She whines and complains (which is COMPLETELY REASONABLE for a real person to do!) and we're like "shut up, I wanna watch Walter melt a man in acid" or whatever.

This is a show with an episode about killing a Fly.

Skyler White does not fit.



Isn't it possible they're just bad/wrong characters for the things they're in? There are plenty of great women in fiction. I'm a huge fanboy of some sf novels that are majority female lead stuff, for instance. I think Dana Scully is great. There are tons of women in fiction I think are great.

People like Lori and Skyler are very noticeable outliers. There's no misogyny there.

Except for that Skyler is a character foil designed to 1) widen the spectrum of "reality" under which the show operates and 2) keeps Walt as a character and his situations interesting. Some of the absolute BEST moments of the show involve Skyler in some way (directly or indirectly), and I think you'd be lying if you said that it was by accident.

So much of Walt's characters and motivations, even as they evolve, revolve around the people he's most close with. Hell, that's one of the things that the show continued to revolve in, the smallness of the "world" around Walt and how his actions, big and small, have an effect. They (admittedly very clumsily) took it to the extreme with the plane crash at the end of season 2 to really drive home that point. He doesn't get brought down by random feds, it's Hank. He doesn't get into the business by talking to some random kid, it was a former student. The world he lives in, the things he does is directly affected by every character, and that very much includes Skyler and HER actions and reactions to what's happening to her as well. You can't remove her and think we'll get essentially the same show.

So, knowing we can't remove her, we have to work with her in a show that is about a high school teacher cooking meth. He has a family with a wife, a son, and unborn daughter. He has a daily routine as an everyman, comes home at roughly the same time, and just as everyone else, if you act erratically people notice. His wife obviously notices. Walt has to start maneuvering around his daily routine and actions, making up work excuses, blaming his cancer, etc., and between the stress of everything going on around him and the drug business he doesn't know how to handle, he makes mistakes. Skyler doesn't go apeshit at the very first thing that doesn't add up, but rather she grows suspicious. From that suspicion she starts thinking about shit, and from that she investigates. What if she did none of these things? 1) She'd be a TRULY boring character with zero depth and 2) that'd actually be slightly sexist as we'd have a stereotypical dumb housewife who can't think for herself that her husband is in the drug trafficking business.

I agree with your notion that there's an element of the supernatural in the show, but that doesn't mean there's no place for reality. The show is nowhere near as unrealistic as you say it is, and would actually make the show COMICALLY unrealistic is if Skyler didn't suspect of push back against Walt's insanity. Well written conflict is what elevates a show from good to great, and this show had that in spades. To argue you want a Skyler that "isn't a buzzkill" (in so many words) is to argue you genuinely want a worse show.

These are both great posts, and I think they're both right, though I'd argue that with the first post.. You missed the point. Skyler was supposed to be all of those things, and if she weren't, the show would be completely different. The whole show revolves (for most of the run) around Walt living a double life. If Skyler knew from episode 1 what he was up to, we'd have a much different (and much less exciting) show. Think about how many times were Walt stumbling into solutions or almost getting caught by her that we laughed at. Many of them wouldn't have happened without her character being how it was.

Also, people that attacked the actress for her portrayal of Skyler disgust me. She did a great job with the character that the writers wrote. If you don't like the character, that's not her problem.
 

Pepboy

Member
Fair point. Molly clearly was just a bad character, no misogyny there.

(I'm being sarcastic, just thought you should know)

Also, are you suggesting that Anna Gunn got death threats because her character didn't fit in the narrative of Breaking Bad well?

The death threats were clearly misogynistic, but a lot of people can have issue with an abuser like Skyler without disliking females (for more details on her potential emotional abuse of Walt, see my post earlier in the thread).

The theory that most people don't like Skyler solely because of her gender does not explain why 99% of women on TV are not badly received. No one sends Lucy Liu death threats for her role in Elementary. There may be an issue with how often women are portrayed as emotional abusers in media, however.
 
S

Steve.1981

Unconfirmed Member
I honestly very much disagree with the bolded. If anything, I'd say she was one of the most fantastically developed characters and had much more to her than pretty much anybody else, in that she had a lot of dynamics (internal and external) playing out. While I don't have the time currently (but intend on doing so later depending on how the thread is going) to fully flesh these out, Skyler is, in many ways, the perfect wife for Walter.

At the beginning, yes, she emasculates him and she's the head of the household, but contrary to people thinking we're supposed to hate her for this, I really don't think there's anything wrong with that. Her emasculation is never mean-spirited or demoralising, it's simply a result of her role of managing the finances, which clearly needs to be done as they're strapped for cash and it's a natural fit for her as an accountant, she recognises Walter's spontaneous odd behaviour and naturally becomes worried by an uncharacteristic change in his routine and how he acts, and her care for him and her family at large is evident. Their marriage is quite tepid, sure, and Walter himself is a shell of who he is living out a mundane existence compared to what could have been, but that's hardly 'out of the ordinary'. As the first season progresses, she has to contend with the knowledge that her husband has cancer, but also has to contend with the increasing distance in their marriage combined with the credulous suspicion that her husband has been cheating on her as he's been growing increasingly distant, has disappeared for long periods of times, and is lying continuously to her (and people can say that 'she never knew', but there is enough of an indication that she was justified in her suspicion and could naturally arrive at this decision).

In the second season, this escalates even further. She has to contend with ever-increasing lies developed by Walter, even further distant behaviour and more exaggerated lies, the additional fear of infidelity and suspicion of an even greater secret, the threat that Walter's behaviour is posing to their marriage, and the incoming child. The final revelation that Walter has been lying the entire time about the second phone just serves as a sledgehammer to the idea that Walter has been honest about anything, and signals to her that she can no longer trust Walter, and that she can't stay with somebody lying to her constantly 'just' because he has cancer; it's not fair on her, it's not fair on him.

Even up to this point she isn't really under-developed; these are all interesting aspects to her character in and of themselves, especially when combined with the turbulent family dynamic she has herself, the pride she has, and her own desire for control (not nearly with the same magnitude as Walter's but definitely a factor). She's a competent, clever individual, and unlike many of the leading female roles in television shows featuring a villainous lead, she is a very pro-active character. She plays an integral role in exposing a fundamental flaw in Walter's rationalisation as to why he's doing it, and herself is an interesting, active character who is placed in an interesting position, who loves her family (or the idea of it) as much as Walter claims to love it, but won't let this blind her to the obvious destruction it's facing because of Walter's behaviour.

It's the third season and onwards where some additional, very interesting dynamics begin to enter Skyler's character. The slow acceptance of the illegal activity through Ted, the spiting of Walter in telling him that she's been unfaithful to him just as he's been unfaithful to her (in a different means) to inflict pain on him (the telling of him that is) and to try and manipulate him to leave the marriage, the element of victim-hood she has as she tries to contend with the harsh judgement of all those around her who are completely unaware of what she's going through and how she has no support, the futile ability to try and contend with Walter's continuous manipulations and to secure any 'victory' she can in the face of his scheming. Her gradual willingness to engage in his behaviour, her own manipulation and temptation from the purely practical elements of it, the desire she genuinely has to protect her family, and the sense of control she hopes to have and her naivety in assuming this is possible all serve to add additional material to Skyler's character and things which we should let frame her behaviour.

The fourth season and beyond, where she's further placed in a desperate situation and must contend with Walter's further becoming and acceptance of who he is, and the prideful, egotistical, sociopathic destructiveness he inflicts on all around him also bring her character to interesting places. While she takes the moral high ground, and is clearly a 'good person doing bad things' (a opposed to Walter's 'bad person doing bad things') her own sense of control, pride, and her commitment to her family delude her into thinking she can contain the damage. She is a decent liar, and is certainly well able to manipulate and engage in behaviour in a cold fashion, but she never considers or accepts violence as an answer in contrast to Walter who uses it as a clear tool. Whereas she likes things orderly, in control, and strives in this environment, Walter's thriving in chaos continuously throws her plans off-kilter, and she simply isn't nearly as competent in lying, manipulation, and antisocial behaviour as Walter is, and is desperately unable to contend with him and continuously struggles. She remains complicit, but there is no doubt her moral uptightedness from the previous seasons has become corrupted (finally resulting in her desperately calling for the murder of Jesse as they are about to lose all they've built after finally 'escaping' from it), and enters an oddly symbiotic relationship with Walter over their illegal operations even if she is never as gleeful in the circumstances as he is, and utterly wants out. A telling shot is in Ozymandias; she chooses the knife over the phone when faced with the death of her brother, whereas Walter Junior unflinchingly goes to it and calls the police. She reflects many aspects of Walter, some of them in a much more competent light (she's much more controlled than Walter is, for one), and some of them far more flawed (she's good at manipulation, but not remotely as good as Walter, and certainly isn't nearly as competent at rationalising her own behaviour, recognising the wrong she's doing in not going to the police or leaving, but still doing it anyway).

I think there's a lot more to her character than just this, and a lot of this is very brief and I've not backed up nearly as much as I would like to (instead throwing out a general summary which hits upon a lot of the interesting aspects affecting her behaviour), but I definitely don't agree that she is under-developed at all, she has a huge amount going in her favour in that regard. Whether somebody finds these dynamics interesting, or likes her, is another matter entirely, but I don't think it's fair to say that she isn't developed as well as the other characters; after Walter (or maybe even far beyond him given that he's a, relatively speaking, more simplistic character to discuss), I think she has the most going for her in relation to development, and reading into her character, it's just a lot more understated and subtle than many of the characters more directly in the drug trade element of the show.

Quoting that in it's entirety because it's an excellent post.

For me Skyler was a great character. So was Walt. I loved how their relationship developed. I loved how the writers of the show played with audience expectations of "good guys" and "bad guys".

In the first season I definitely felt sympathy for Walt. He just seemed like a decent man who deserved better from life. Skyler seemed a bit controlling. It felt like she emasculated him. Then the penny dropped, I think it was a couple of episodes into season 2, and I realised how different my opinion was when I simply looked again at the story so far, but this time from Skyler's point of view. From then I just sat back and watched them both from a neutral position, and it was brilliant.

I loved their last scene together.
When Walt finally told Skyler the truth, knowing he would never see her again, then said goodbye to his daughter, I'm sure Skyler looked at him as if she recognised the man she had fell in love with all those years ago. Or maybe I imagined that.
I'll need to watch the show again sometime.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
She was a party pooper. Here we have Walter and Jesse doing all this fun and exciting shit, and Skyler keeps on causing trouble. Were her concerns legit? Of course. Walter put the family in danger numerous times with assassins and drug lords. And he could have just gotten money from those rich asshole nerds. I didn't like her but I didn't start hating until this. ["I fucked Ted"]
SMH

"i fucked ted" is the problem? really?
It's truly unbelievable.

Do people loathe male characters who cheat on their wives/SO nearly as much, I wonder? (Who am I kidding of course they don't.)
 
The death threats were clearly misogynistic, but a lot of people can have issue with an abuser like Skyler without disliking females (for more details on her potential emotional abuse of Walt, see my post earlier in the thread).

The theory that most people don't like Skyler solely because of her gender does not explain why 99% of women on TV are not badly received. No one sends Lucy Liu death threats for her role in Elementary. There may be an issue with how often women are portrayed as emotional abusers in media, however.

I guess Walt gets a leg-up, given that he only performed physical abuse on her

And willful psychological/emotional abuse for much of the show
 

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
let me first acknowledge that yes there are crazy people out there, and anyone that send death threats to the actress who played Skyler, are idiotic morons that need to be educated.

The first problem with discussing breaking bad and specifically Skyler, is the bolded part of this post.
Absolutely agreed. How people view Skyler says more about them than it does about her as a character. I always thought Skyler's reactions and behaviour were completely understandable in her situation. Bryan Cranston plays Walt with so much charisma that I suppose it can sway people into supporting him as a good guy, but I'm unable to see him that way.
Often dislike for Skyler gets boiled down to bullshit like this, or even worse just outright assuming the person is a misogynist. Its a TV show people. You can like a bad guy and not be a bad guy in real life, conversely you can not like a good character and still be a good person. So how bout we not make personal judgements about someone based on their opinion on a fictional tv show?

The second problem with talking about Skyler is that almost no one acknowledges that we the viewer know what Walt's doing which colors our interpretation of Skyler's actions. Before Walt has even done anything illegal or lied to her, she treats him poorly to say the least. She micro manages his life, she gets mad at him for using the wrong credit card at the store, like seriously. Then when Walter starts acting differently, she has suspicions but she doesn't actually know anything, we the viewer know, but she doesn't. She's nosy and snoops on Walt. When Walt finally tells Skyler he has cancer, she constantly asks him what he's doing or where he's been, nagging him all the time. Even my wife upon her first viewing said she was annoying and a nag. She goes behind his back to get help from their friends. By the way none of this makes Walt a "Good guy" or a "victim" or anything like that. They can both be varying levels bad people for different reasons.

Which leads to the third problem i've seen when discussing Breaking Bad online, there are varying levels of bad people, people. Not everything is just plain black and white and thats one of the main themes of the show imo. Jesse at heart is a pretty good person, but he's still a drug dealer and meth cook long before he and Walt start cooking together. And you can definitely argue Walt brought out the worse in Jesse. Even Schrader seems to be a good person at heart, but he still beats the living shit out of Jesse, which should have gotten him fired and thrown in jail.

And finally one of the most annoying parts of discussing breaking bad with people online is the person that says herp derp if it they lived in Canada he could have had his cancer fixed for free, congratulations there would be no show, and you missed the point. And second to that, the people that say "yea Walt could have had his treatment paid for by his friends" again congratulations you missed the point and the show would have been like one episode long.
 

Muffdraul

Member
I think she gave an amazing performance. In the first script, there's a line:

"Skyler's cute in a way most guys wouldn't have noticed back in high school. But not soft-cute. Not in the eyes."

That I think really captures the character that Anna Gunn gave. If there's an issue it's in script or direction -- I think she was set up to be an emotionally abusive partner in a relationship, and it resonated a little too deeply for many households.

Emotionally abusive? Skyler? Sorry but even after reading your other posts regarding that point I don't agree, at all. She, like many wives, was in charge of running the household. Walt was the breadwinner and she was the "administrator." That was the basis of her hen-pecking and nagging and those are obviously negative traits, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it "abuse."
 
This is the only show with such well developed well written complex yet understandable charatcers. I don't get the hate for anyone of them. They all had reasons for anything and everything both good and bad that they did. What a show!
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Often dislike for Skyler gets boiled down to bullshit like this, or even worse just outright assuming the person is a misogynist. Its a TV show people. You can like a bad guy and not be a bad guy in real life, conversely you can not like a good character and still be a good person. So how bout we not make personal judgements about someone based on their opinion on a fictional tv show?

There is a difference between liking or disliking a character, regardless of whether or not that character is morally "good" or "evil", and liking or disliking them because you think their behaviour is morally correct/wrong.

It's like this. You can enjoy Darth Vader as a character. Think he's badass, cool, mysterious, etc. And enjoy the scenes where he acts like an evil badass dictator and force-chokes people. This does not make you a bad person.

But if you start thinking, "well, you know what, Darth Vader was justified in force-choking that little bitch, and I can understand him being a ruthless tyrant, because you know, the Galaxy needed stability"... then yes, if you really believe that, you are probably not a good person. If you say "I'm glad Darth Vader did what he did because it made for a good, enjoyable, exciting saga/story", that's very different.

So if you hate Skyler because you don't enjoy how she was written or the scenes she was in, that's one thing. If you hate her because "she was a nagging bitch to poor cancer-ridden Walt plus she fucked Ted omg what a disgusting whore", I will definitely think your moral compass is broken, at best, and yes, you're probably a misogynist.

And finally one of the most annoying parts of discussing breaking bad with people online is the person that says herp derp if it they lived in Canada he could have had his cancer fixed for free, congratulations there would be no show, and you missed the point.

And second to that, the people that say "yea Walt could have had his treatment paid for by his friends" again congratulations you missed the point and the show would have been like one episode long.
Missed what point, exactly? But you are right that there would be no show....

...Funnily enough, that's also true with Skyler. If Walt didn't have a wife and children, there would have been far less tension to his activities and the story would have been completely different.

Her newly cancer striken husband was spending some time alone so she fucked her boss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm assuming that's sarcasm. Because see, if that's what you take out of the whole thing, then something is probably wrong with you.
 

Walpurgis

Banned
SMH


It's truly unbelievable.

Do people loathe male characters who cheat on their wives/SO nearly as much, I wonder? (Who am I kidding of course they don't.)
Really? That's all you picked out of my post? What makes you think that I would suddenly be okay with that? That makes no sense. I'm pretty sure that I've posted in the past about how much I hate cheaters but that's beside the point. She did something worse than simply screw Ted. She gave him their money. That's what the second GIF is for.
 
she lost her moral high ground when she fucked ted out of spite for walt
shes still a better person than walt ofc but ya

Was it out of spite?

I always thought she did that to force Walt's hand into getting a divorce, since that's clearly what she wanted after she kicked Walt out of the house, and due to the way the cookie crumbled unless the divorce was mutual there was nothing she could do, and after Walt moved himself back in her options were running out.
 
Her newly cancer striken husband was spending some time alone so she fucked her boss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So are we just ignoring

1. Meth dealing
2. Violence
3. The inherent danger that she felt she and Walter Jr. were in
4. The fact that she was trying to get him to agree to a divorce and he refused to allow it to happen?

Seriously, this is handwavery at its finest. Or ideally, satire at its finest.
 

Stat Flow

He gonna cry in the car
So if you hate Skyler because you don't enjoy how she was written or the scenes she was in, that's one thing. If you hate her because "she was a nagging bitch to poor cancer-ridden Walt plus she fucked Ted omg what a disgusting whore", I will definitely think your moral compass is broken, at best, and yes, you're probably a misogynist.
.
So there's no in-between, eh? Can someone not enjoy how she was written or the scenes she was in because she was a nagging bitch, fucked Ted, and did some other shit that was an obstacle to Walt doing deliciously evil shit?

Yeah, Walt pretty much becomes evil, but who gives a fuck? It was fun. I'm here for the ride. Skyler is the definition of "No Fun Allowed" - has nothing to do with her being a woman.
 
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