Support NeoGAF

[8bitpill]

Back in my day... excitement use to look like this.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

I feel you, but I went over this same feeling during the ps3-ps4 transition and I expected it again in an even more scale, as we can see. I'm sure in a couple of years this gen will impress us also with some unbelievable things. But yeah, we have to forget this 60fps parroting bullshit for that. Give me 30fps with mindblowing graphics any day.

I think UE5 graphics are definitely doable on this hardware. No question about it. I feel like there's a bunch of Sony studios working on stuff that they haven't shown yet.

 

[nkarafo]

But they run at 60 fps, so despite looking great, they arent those games that push graphics so hard that the hardware runs the game at 25 fps average while cutting down resolution

6th gen games had both the best graphics and run at 60fps.

Especially in GameCube. Rogue Leader and Metroid Prime 1/2 run at 60fps and are considered some of the best looking GC games.

 

[Jimmy_liv]

I agree with the OP. Everything's the same as last gen but 60fps

 

[Soulblighter31]

My point is that in every generation the consoles decide what AAA games can be since every developer/publisher wants to sell their product to the biggest audience possible...

Console manufacturers won't build powerful, expensive consoles if they won't sell...

Computers have always dictated how the best graphics on the market looks like since they had dedicate graphics cards. Did you forget about Unreal in 1998, Quake 3 in 1999 and so on. Doom 3, Far Cry and Half Life 2 in 2004. Fear in 2005. Crysis in 2007.

Cyberpunk, Half Life Alyx and Flight Sim today. Consoles show you what you can in the mid range with various compromises.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

Why stop at 30fps? I bet you could get really, really good graphics with none of those icky trade-offs at 15fps.

I hear this all the time and it's not funny every time.

15fps is lower than movies and 24fps doesn't divide evenly into 60Hz so that's a no-go as well.

So 30fps is the minimum frame rate for making motion look fluid enough.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Okay, I'll probably be flamed but I don't give a shit.

Last time game graphics really blew me away, was Half Life Alyx VR. I had not had that feeling since a long time. Don't judge the game graphics by 2D videos, the depth perception on shaders brings a whole new level.

I'm not even excited about the next big 2D graphics showcase anymore, I want devs to push VR like Valve did.

 

[Roni]

Computers have always dictated how the best graphics on the market looks like since they had dedicate graphics cards. Did you forget about Unreal in 1998, Quake 3 in 1999 and so on. Doom 3, Far Cry and Half Life 2 in 2004. Fear in 2005. Crysis in 2007.

Cyberpunk, Half Life Alyx and Flight Sim today. Consoles show you what you can in the mid range with various compromises.

Yeah, and my point goes right along that notion: but consoles have the larger userbase so the money chases that.

 

[Soulblighter31]

Yeah, and my point goes right along that notion: but consoles have the larger userbase so the money chases that.

But that doesnt mean consoles dictate the max. They dictate the baseline, but you will always go ahead of them. And you dont know when surprises will come up like what we had last year with the trio of Cyberpunk, Flight Sim and Alyx

 

[triplestation]

bro have you seen flight simulator 2020

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

But that doesnt mean consoles dictate the max. They dictate the baseline, but you will always go ahead of them. And you dont know when surprises will come up like what we had last year with the trio of Cyberpunk, Flight Sim and Alyx

You have to admit though that once consoles have new hardware, games tend to start changing drastically. PC doesn't have "generations" but when a new generation of console is out, it's not long before games require much beefier hardware than before to keep up with the new current gen visuals.

 

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

I miss the early days of PS4 when they showcased Killzone Shadowfall, DriveClub, The Order 1886, Infamous Second Son, Horizon Zero Dawn, Uncharted 4, The Last of Us Part 2... etc.

Every time they showed something for the PS4, I was floored at how good it all looked.

Now-a-days though it's like... HEY IT LOOKS THE SAME AS A PS4 GAME BUT IT HAS 60FPS!!!! WOW 60FPS! SO NEXT GEN!

I'm so sick of it.

The last time I was blown away by something for the PS5, was when they showed off UE5. That's pretty much it. Everything else just looks like last gen stuff with some extra detail and 4K resolution.

I must confess though, I've stayed away from any videos or screenshots of Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart because I wanna go in with fresh eyes. Hopefully this is the game that really makes me think "Man, now this is what next gen can really do"

What are your thoughts? Is 60fps enough to call it "next gen" or do you really wanna see that graphical leap we've come to expect each new generation even if it has to be 30fps.

If a game looks as good as UE5 demo, I'll gladly play it at 30fps.

That's the reason why you feel that way. After seeing it in action, you will definitely see what true next gen looks like.

Spoiler

PIXARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

And to think this is only 6 months into the new hardware too. 2-3 yrs from now i can't even imagine what we'll be seeing.

 

[tsumake]

I hear this all the time and it's not funny every time.

15fps is lower than movies and 24fps doesn't divide evenly into 60Hz so that's a no-go as well.

So 30fps is the minimum frame rate for making motion look fluid enough.

If you have a 120hz set, you can do 24fps. But input response will be worse.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

Wait for Horizon, GOW, and whatever Naughty Dog makes next.

 

[Sygma]

I don't know fam between Minecraft RTX, Control maxed out on pc, Exodus enhanced, Flight Simulator 2020, Demon's Souls and well ya know, the list goes on ... eyeballs definitely melted down. Maybe your standards are a problem ...

Baldur's Gate 3 maxed out in 4k is also quite the showing. Lol at these threads honestly, @ me when there'll be the equivalent of kingdom come on console

 

[CrustyBritches]

Okay, I'll probably be flamed but I don't give a shit.

Last time game graphics really blew me away, was Half Life Alyx VR. I had not had that feeling since a long time. Don't judge the game graphics by 2D videos, the depth perception on shaders brings a whole new level.

I'm not even excited about the next big 2D graphics showcase anymore, I want devs to push VR like Valve did.

PCVR+Quest 2 120Hz is where it's at. Just need better availability for the RTX 3000 series at msrp, and more support for DLSS(and eventually AMD Super Res) in VR.

 

[kevm3]

You'll be blown away eventually. Assets for these new games just take much long to develop. Also, we had a mid gen refresh (ps4 pro and one x), which past gens didn't have.

 

[QuantumZebra]

The rule of diminishing returns will always apply.

There's only so far you can take graphics - eventually art direction and style matters more.

Once everything is 8k 120FPS we'll be pretty much living in the uncanny valley.

The PS2/Xbox -> PS3 / 360 jump was likely the biggest leap you'll see graphics take. Beyond that it becomes all about the small details and less about the overall "Holy shit that looks real".

 

[Mr Branding]

Early days...PS4 lol


Imagine your mind if you lived for real generational leaps

Been there since ZX spectrum. This talk about resolutions and raytracing does nothing for me.

 

[thismeinteil]

The problem with next gen is , after you get the hype it feels like it was always there.
You need to boot some old games to feel the difference.

Playing PS5 4K HDR raytracing wowwww, some moments later; Ah mehhhh Is the same shit.

Go back to my PS4 og 1080p…

This. Our memories always trick us on how good graphics looked. I remember some games looking good on PS2 or PS3. But I recently went back and played them and it's not how I remembered. I thought Spider-Man wasn't much of improvement, til I played the PS4 version, again. That 4K+RT, with higher resolution textures, makes a big difference.

 

[PhaseJump]

Huh?

You aren't blown away by the next-gen Intellivision's graphics?

 

[e&e]

I agree, nothing blows me away anymore! Ratchet looks great with its quality but I'm not blown away...I've hit the returns!

 

[Roni]

But that doesnt mean consoles dictate the max. They dictate the baseline, but you will always go ahead of them. And you dont know when surprises will come up like what we had last year with the trio of Cyberpunk, Flight Sim and Alyx

My point wasn't that consoles dictate the max, they dictate the minimum. But publishers adhere to the minimum because there's money in that. Hence why I said to the OP he should be willing to pay more for consoles, so consoles can be more powerful and therefore lead to higher floors in quality.

 

[Ezquimacore]

You need a pc. I'm blown away every week even playing old games, breath of the wild at 4k/60fps is perfection.

 

[Dr Bass]

He's probably more attracted to the last part of my name to be fair. To put things into perspective, if he was in a band/orchestra/choir... He's be the tambourine player, the flute player, or sing soprano... If you get what I mean...

But back to gaming before we get too off topic

So what you're saying is you think he likes the dong, and if you're Don Juan, then what is better than Don Juan Schlong? Am I wrong?

Huh?

You aren't blown away by the next-gen Intellivision's graphics?

Never thought I'd see the day when Mr. Tallarico needed to wear a trainer's bra. Couldn't he have worn a thicker or bit looser shirt? I didn't need to see this.

I feel like this post might get me a warning.

 

[TikiLagoonSam]

I agree. This is why Nintendo games are everlasting for me. The gameplay is so fun and refreshing. I keep going back to play the classic Nintendo games moreso than the Sony exclusives that I looove. The addition of motion controls was a wow moment for me that takes it to the next step. Rumble I think has more potential like PS5 has shown. VR is where I think games need to go to get us to that next wow moment in gaming.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

I dunno, good implementation of Ray tracing on PC really impress me, the new Ratchet and Clank Rift apart looks amazing. I think as a Pc gamer, que nextgen Just look like playing on PC.

 

[SF Kosmo]

There's diminishing returns to gains in compute the further and further we get along. I mean stuff lien R&C is not ThAT far off from pixar at this point. We're never going to see a single gen look as different as, say, PS1 to PS2.

Same way 8K does not feel like the leap over 4K that 4K was over 2K. The better things get the less those little gains matter.

If you want to be blown away like that now, you're gonna have to go to VR, that's really the new frontier where you see those big leaps happening with new generations.

 

[junguler]

fuck graphics, gameplay is king.

 

[Lethal01]

I mean stuff in R&C is not ThAT far off from pixar at this point. We're never going to see a single gen look as different as, say, PS1 to PS2.

 

[jakinov]

Western devs are lazy and cheap, they want to sell you their $70 games without doing the work.

Have you seen most of the games not from the west? They don't look like that. Most games from the west have also been designed around running on hardware from almost 8 years ago (older if you consider that technology used in consoles 8 years ago isn't the latest and greatest). We also don't even know how they are running this game, considering it's on PC, the video generated could be from running on hardware that will cost you thousands of dollars.

You are probably right that they don't want to spend money but I wouldn't call it being cheap to build things that won't actually be used at all or at the same quality by the vast majority of users. I would call that being cost-effective.

It's nothing about being lazy it all boils down to money, time and limitations.

 

[Hobbygaming]

If it wasn't for Demon Souls, Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart, and Crimson Desert I'd agree

The next time we see Gran Turismo 7 it's going to be stunning too

 

[CartoonsNCereal]

But you are playing games, framerate is important, we finally getting some improvement over lame-ass last gen.

But you do kniw you are sacrificing major tech/graphical/processing enhancements for 60 fps right?

I dont think alot of console gamers realize that

 

[RCU005]

I hate this obsession about 60fps. People would choose a Super Mario 64-looking game over 30fps, and I think that's dumb.
Also, the fact that there are so many cross gen games is making the hype for PS5 games die a little. Hopefully, Sony announces more PS5 only games starting this E3 season (if they do something).

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

But you do kniw you are sacrificing major tech/graphical/processing enhancements for 60 fps right?

I dont think alot of console gamers realize that

Games already look super realistic right now though! There's no more improvements to be made!

/s

 

[Mister Wolf]

Cyberpunk on PC and Ratchet & Clank impress me. R&C is the best looking retail videogame I've ever seen.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

I hate this obsession about 60fps. People would choose a Super Mario 64-looking game over 30fps, and I think that's dumb.
Also, the fact that there are so many cross gen games is making the hype for PS5 games die a little. Hopefully, Sony announces more PS5 only games starting this E3 season (if they do something).

I think backwards compatibility is kinda spoiling people. They think... oh, well if God of War can run at 60fps, then anything can run at 60fps... but for some reason they're cool with games never looking any better than God of War for some reason... BUT when they see what the future holds, I think they'll gladly take back 30fps for that jaw dropping realism.

Dynamic weather, destructible environments, crazy amounts of grass/trees/rocks, much better hair rendering, skin rendering, water physics etc. I wanna see some real next gen tech... not just static environments at 60fps.

 

[Sub_Level]

People were impressed by PS4 graphics at launch? That was probably the weakest set of consoles for when they launched. It was nothing you couldn't do on a mid-budget PC at the time with rare exceptions (Uncharted 4).

PS5 absolutely does suffer from diminishing returns, but I'll gladly take my 60fps & SSD loading. I'm seeing youtube playthroughs of RE8 and am stunned by the loading screens, because I never saw them once in my PS5 playthrough.

 

[Negotiator101]

Wait for Horizon, GOW, and whatever Naughty Dog makes next.

Why have you only mentioned Sony first party studios?

 

[Yoboman]

And that's literally it so far.

At this point last gen all we had was KZ Shadowfall and Ryse.

I remember people being hyped on the graphic updates to GTA5 and TLOU and how they were competing with early gen games

People have short memories

 

[CartoonsNCereal]

Games already look super realistic right now though! There's no more improvements to be made!

/s

Not to mention they want to run it at 4K.

Then yeah...you're not gonna see upgrades in tech/processing/graphics in the way it COULD be.

You're basically gonna get a higher res, better running ps4 game....improved only in some areas.

Imma say it...gaming is the worst its ever been right now. Literally list a new ground breaking title coming out...i'll wait.

A new console is out and there is little reason to even get it a year in....

Native 4k 60fps kids are fucking retarded. And fucking up gaming because they dont really know what they are asking for, they think thats a bigger improvement than enhancing tech overall at say 1440p or 1080...it's not. Yay...a slightly more clear smooth ps4.5 game. Thanks gamers

 

[Negotiator101]

I'm expecting Dice to raise the bar, ND but that is years away. Ninja Theory is my pick for best graphics this generation though. Even if HB2 doesn't end up like that trailer I think these guys are at the pinnacle of motion capture. What they achieved with Hellblade on a small budget was incredible but now they have a huge budget with a bigger team, I think they will show Project Mara at E3 and its gonna blow minds.

 

[CartoonsNCereal]

At this point last gen all we had was KZ Shadowfall and Ryse.

I remember people being hyped on the graphic updates to GTA5 and TLOU and how they were competing with early gen games

People have short memories

There were more impressive titles that came out last geb thab shadowfall and ryse...

 

[Kimahri]

I haven't been truly amazed by tech since the water in Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance. Running, jumping and playing with that amazing interactive liquid was unlike anything.

Still looks great to this day.

 

[Punished Miku]

At this point last gen all we had was KZ Shadowfall and Ryse.

I remember people being hyped on the graphic updates to GTA5 and TLOU and how they were competing with early gen games

People have short memories

PS4 had nothing for like 2-3 years for me. My main games were inFamous SS, and Ground Zeroes which I played about 30x all the way through.

For years I basically just played nothing but Wii U and 3DS. People do have short memories.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

I'm expecting Dice to raise the bar, ND but that is years away. Ninja Theory is my pick for best graphics this generation though. Even if HB2 doesn't end up like that trailer I think these guys are at the pinnacle of motion capture. What they achieved with Hellblade on a small budget was incredible but now they have a huge budget with a bigger team, I think they will show Project Mara at E3 and its gonna blow minds.

Ah yes, how could I forget about Hellblade 2. When I saw that reveal trailer, I was absolutely stunned at the quality. However, I took it as a pre-rendered trailer and I wanna wait to see some gameplay to see if that's how it really looks. If so, I'm betting it won't be 60fps.

 

[Yoboman]

There were more impressive titles that came out last geb thab shadowfall and ryse...

Such as?

 

[CartoonsNCereal]

People were impressed by PS4 graphics at launch? That was probably the weakest set of consoles for when they launched. It was nothing you couldn't do on a mid-budget PC at the time with rare exceptions (Uncharted 4).

PS5 absolutely does suffer from diminishing returns, but I'll gladly take my 60fps & SSD loading. I'm seeing youtube playthroughs of RE8 and am stunned by the loading screens, because I never saw them once in my PS5 playthrough.

Yes. Ps5 is a bigger improvement than ps4.

But 60 fps is a sacrifice. Remember that, you're getting a less technically impressive game for frames, its like scaling the graphics down on PC...

60 fps is necessary for some titles. But not all...

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

PS4 had nothing for like 2-3 years for me. My main games were inFamous SS, and Ground Zeroes which I played about 30x all the way through.

For years I basically just played nothing but Wii U and 3DS. People do have short memories.

I played a hell of a lot of Infamous Second Son, but I also put in 500 hours into DriveClub. Those were the days man, those were the days. I didn't like Killzone Shadowfall's story or gameplay really, but I really admired it's graphics at the time.

 

[LMJ]

Here's the thing Dust-by-Monday

The bulk of what we've gotten thus far is cross gen, we've yet to see TRUE next gen capability...

Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart

The Medium

Returnal

And of course the unreal 5 and Hellblade 2 demos are but a glimpse of what next gen can do...