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"I need a New PC!" 2013 Part 1. Haswell, Crysis 3, and secret fairy sauce. Read da OP

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Dr.Acula

Banned
I see AMD is offering Tomb Raider and BioShock for free with their cards.

How's AMD doing lately? Are these cards good? Will I be able to run RAGE well enough with them for instance?

I'm more about random compatability with everything, than maxing out performance in select engines. Still, two free AAA games are tempting.
 

erick

Banned
Nvidia GTX 560 Ti
Intel Core i7 520 clocked @ 3.5 GHz
6 GB RAM

What is my bottleneck for modern PC gaming. What do I need to buy to get 60 FPS in Heart of the Swarm and Bioshock Infinite? Will I need a new CPU and GPU, or will just one or the other suffice?

1. 6GB of RAM is quite enough by modern standards, and adding more will not raise performance in current games.
2. CPU is fast enough to not limit anything (again, assuming it is in fact i7 920 @ 3,5GHz). As a sidebet, I would say that it is fast enough to work comfortably in the PS4 era, due to 8 threads.
3. GPU is almost always the bottleneck. Yours probably has just 1GB of video RAM as well. HD7970 3GB GHz Edition should serve you nicely. Hard to recommend nVidia cards now since both next-gen consoles are coming out with AMD GPUs. I expect it will give AMD
cards a very significant edge, since all devs will be working with AMD as default.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
I want to mount a fan in the roof of my prodigy but the bluray drive means I can't quite match the mounting holes - about 5-7mm out. Is there a way to work around that? I'd be an exhaust fan so can I just Velcro it in place?

2x120mm fans as exhaust and a 230mm spectre pro on 7v for intake would probably still give me positive pressure right? One of the exhausts is the CPu cooler so runs slow on idle, and when I'm gaming the 7950 would also be bringing air in.





Also, for those of you that bought a 7xxx card with the AMD offer for bioshock and crysis 3 - how long does it take to get the keys? I got the bioshock one immediately but the crysis 3 one still isn't here 5 days later. That'll be a origin code so maybe they take longer?
 

kharma45

Member
I see AMD is offering Tomb Raider and BioShock for free with their cards.

How's AMD doing lately? Are these cards good? Will I be able to run RAGE well enough with them for instance?

I'm more about random compatability with everything, than maxing out performance in select engines. Still, two free AAA games are tempting.

They're very solid cards and very hard to go wrong with. I ran RAGE on my 7850 and it seemed to run fine despite it being so badly optimised.
 

HoosTrax

Member
I see AMD is offering Tomb Raider and BioShock for free with their cards.

How's AMD doing lately? Are these cards good? Will I be able to run RAGE well enough with them for instance?

I'm more about random compatability with everything, than maxing out performance in select engines. Still, two free AAA games are tempting.
Kind of wondering this as well. My first/last/only foray into the red camp was the HD3870, which didn't go so well drivers-wise. I'm willing to give them another chance though; heard they've been improving in the drivers department. Particularly with their pack-in game bundles being so much better than the F2P trash NV is bundling right now.

I guess if I've been in the market for a GTX680, then the red counterpart to look into would be the HD7970?
 

kharma45

Member
Kind of wondering this as well. My first/last/only foray into the red camp was the HD3870, which didn't go so well drivers-wise. I'm willing to give them another chance though; heard they've been improving in the drivers department. Particularly with their pack-in game bundles being so much better than the F2P trash NV is bundling right now.

I guess if I've been in the market for a GTX680, then the red counterpart to look into would be the HD7970?

It would be yes.

Drivers with AMD are hugely improved after they moved away from monthly releases, they're pretty much as good as Nvidia now.
 

avaya

Member
So finally got my build together, did not realise that was a known issue with the 3820 and Rampage IV boards....system wouldn't post when I turned it on.

Flashed the bios and all is well.

Core i7-3820
Corsiair H80i (2x Noisebloacker e-loop)
16GB Samsung 30nm RAM
EVGA GeForce Titan Super-Clocked SLi
Rampage IV Formula
Define R4
Corsair AX860

Cooling wise, I think I'm good. Got 2 Noiseblocker e-loops as intakes on the front and one on the bottom. The H80i stock fans removed and replaced with Noiseblockers too, very impressed with the quality of these fans!

Think I will OC the processor to ~4.5GHz and the RAM to 2100MHz, should be doable.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
You might be able to go higher again, on the site that I bought the Samsung RAM from the got 2400MHz (11-11-11-28 2N) @ 1.50v.

I tried all sorts of settings at 2400 and couldn't hit it. I suspect it was just either the IMC not being up to task or my particular batch just couldn't do it.

I ended up with 9-10-10-21 1T at about 1.5v for 2133 speeds. Pretty happy all in all.

I'm on the x79 platform as well except I have a Sabertooth x79 MB.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Stable 60 FPS for current games at mid settings would be great. Stable 60 at high settings would be even nicer.

whats your budget? you were putting i7s in your build earlier so thats quite an expensive build. In that case I'd go 7950 which should do you really well. You can get 60fps at mid settings for many games (especially UE3 games) with a lower spec card, but I think a 7950 would be a good sweet spot
 

asdad123

Member
So I built my PC two weeks ago, and I cant stop. Im itching to add water cooling to it.

I would like to cool an i5 3570k and two Sapphire 7950 graphics cards in Crossfire. I have a Define R4 case.

Would it be possible to make a full water cooling set up for this under $250?
 

MisterNoisy

Member
Also, for those of you that bought a 7xxx card with the AMD offer for bioshock and crysis 3 - how long does it take to get the keys? I got the bioshock one immediately but the crysis 3 one still isn't here 5 days later. That'll be a origin code so maybe they take longer?

My experience was the opposite. I got the Crysis key in the first 'AMD Gaming Evolved' email, while I had to wait until a couple of days ago for another email message with my Bioshock code.
 

Orca

Member
As has been said, change that RAM. This is cheaper and lower profile http://us.ncix.com/products/?usaffi...7828&vpn=KHX16LC10K2/16X&manufacture=Kingston

You can also get a 4GB 680 for that sort of money http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125448 or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500288 or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162105

Also change your PSU to one of these, given you a few options as two of them require rebates

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151087&Tpk=seasonic x750&IsVirtualParent=1

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207029

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207028

The 750w XFX is the better buy if you're comfortable with rebates as it has more than enough power for your system and it can pull 950w.

Also, are you sure you need a Blu-ray drive? Are you really going to watch films on your PC? Case wise you could look at the Fractal R4 which is a very good one and cheaper than what you selected http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352020

Thanks for the advice!

Yeah, I'll need the Blu Ray burner. I should have mentioned I'll also be backing up photos to disk. Watching movies is a bonus, but it's a secondary feature.

Good call on the Fractal R4. I like that case much more after looking at some of the pics.
 

kennah

Member
So I built my PC two weeks ago, and I cant stop. Im itching to add water cooling to it.

I would like to cool an i5 3570k and two Sapphire 7950 graphics cards in Crossfire. I have a Define R4 case.

Would it be possible to make a full water cooling set up for this under $250?

... Not really.

CPU Block ~50
GPU Block ~100
2xRadiators ~100
Pump ~100
Reservoir ~50-100
Fittings ~100
Tubing ~20+

You could maybe find a used setup for cheaper, but it's significant footwork.
 

kennah

Member
Yeah, I didn't notice the Crossfire initially, so that would increase the Radiator space you'd need plus add another water block.
 

asdad123

Member
Yeah, I didn't notice the Crossfire initially, so that would increase the Radiator space you'd need plus add another water block.

Yeah.. I wasnt planning on getting Crossfire, but I was talking about needing to buy a graphics card with a friend, and my GF overheard me. I ordered a Sapphire 7950 while it was on sale at Amazon, and she saw the graphics card in my browser, and got me one for my birthday yesterday, so now I have two lol
 

kharma45

Member
Thanks for the advice!

Yeah, I'll need the Blu Ray burner. I should have mentioned I'll also be backing up photos to disk. Watching movies is a bonus, but it's a secondary feature.

Good call on the Fractal R4. I like that case much more after looking at some of the pics.

What you've chosen isn't a Blu-ray burner, only a reader for them and a DVD/CD writer. You'd need to swap to this model to write BRs http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
 
whats your budget? you were putting i7s in your build earlier so thats quite an expensive build. In that case I'd go 7950 which should do you really well. You can get 60fps at mid settings for many games (especially UE3 games) with a lower spec card, but I think a 7950 would be a good sweet spot

Budget is a lot. I'm not planning on upgrading for awhile and am hoping that what I build now will last a good amount of time.

Here is what I currently have given the advice I've received in the thread:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Magk
 
What you've chosen isn't a Blu-ray burner, only a reader for them and a DVD/CD writer. You'd need to swap to this model to write BRs http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=

Should probably also mention that you still need to buy software to watch blu-rays on blu-ray drives, as far as I know.

PS, anyone with that BitFenix Prodigy case have the full outside dimensions on it? Think it ends up bigger then a silverstone matx case I'm looking at because of the extra "handle" things, but want to be sure.
 

kharma45

Member
Budget is a lot. I'm not planning on upgrading for awhile and am hoping that what I build now will last a good amount of time.

Here is what I currently have given the advice I've received in the thread:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Magk

I've probably said it before but look to change that power supply either to the XFX version of it which will cost you less, or move to a modular one which would be a good idea in a case that size. Something like one of these modular units:

SeaSonic M12II 520 80+ Bronze 520W

SeaSonic G Series SSR-550RM 550W 80+ Gold

Of course with the Prodigy double check with any PSU to make sure it fits ok, as there was a nice 80+ Platinum Rosewill PSU on Newegg but at 170mm deep it is too big afaik.

Should probably also mention that you still need to buy software to watch blu-rays on blu-ray drives, as far as I know.

PS, anyone with that BitFenix Prodigy case have the full outside dimensions on it? Think it ends up bigger then a silverstone matx case I'm looking at because of the extra "handle" things, but want to be sure.

The ASUS comes with Cyberlink Power2Go which is burning software for BRs, although I don't know if that will allow you to play them.
 
I've probably said it before but look to change that power supply either to the XFX version of it which will cost you less, or move to a modular one which would be a good idea in a case that size. Something like one of these modular units:

SeaSonic M12II 520 80+ Bronze 520W

SeaSonic G Series SSR-550RM 550W 80+ Gold

Yeah I was going to change, just didn't update it yet on the site.

120/144Hz monitor!

Which monitor would you recommend? Or are you saying the one I picked out is 120/144Hz? Honestly I just picked blindly as filler for a general idea of price. I'm going to research monitors later.
 

kennah

Member

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Pulled the triggers on them dust filters for the 500R.

I only have a few questions mainly for mkenyon or anyone with some experience with these things.

My case has fans on the side panel with the 240mm fan. Will I be able to screw the fan back in with the dust filter in place or will that fan have to be axed?
 

plainr_

Member
Before I go and start constructing a pc case from scratch, I need to know if it is a good or bad idea to build a gaming rig around an itx board? Let's say an i5 3570k with an HD 7950? No DVD drives. I don't think I'll be overclocking. I would use a micro atx board but I'm trying to build the smallest possible pc case to sit next to my TV.
 

mkenyon

Banned
Pulled the triggers on them dust filters for the 500R.

I only have a few questions mainly for mkenyon or anyone with some experience with these things.

My case has fans on the side panel with the 240mm fan. Will I be able to screw the fan back in with the dust filter in place or will that fan have to be axed?
Those Demciflex Filters are magnetic. How you put them on is simply attach the magnetic strip which has adhesive on the back to the outside of the panel in question. Then you place the filter on that magnetic strip. Easy as pie.
Which monitor would you recommend? Or are you saying the one I picked out is 120/144Hz? Honestly I just picked blindly as filler for a general idea of price. I'm going to research monitors later.
This guy, if you can make it work in the budget.
Before I go and start constructing a pc case from scratch, I need to know if it is a good or bad idea to build a gaming rig around an itx board? Let's say an i5 3570k with an HD 7950? No DVD drives. I don't think I'll be overclocking. I would use a micro atx board but I'm trying to build the smallest possible pc case to sit next to my TV.
Nope, read the SFF Guide, link in the OP.
 
Before I go and start constructing a pc case from scratch, I need to know if it is a good or bad idea to build a gaming rig around an itx board? Let's say an i5 3570k with an HD 7950? No DVD drives. I don't think I'll be overclocking. I would use a micro atx board but I'm trying to build the smallest possible pc case to sit next to my TV.

The asus M ITX board is suppose to be really good for that. As long as you don't ever plan on a 2 video card set up it works well and can handle overclocking. I would be more worried about building my own case though. Proper mounting and airflow can be hard to manage.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Those Demciflex Filters are magnetic. How you put them on is simply attach the magnetic strip which has adhesive on the back to the outside of the panel in question. Then you place the filter on that magnetic strip. Easy as pie.

Makes sense for the side panel. The top mount and front mesh as well as the underneath both sit within the case so I'm assuming those will continue to sit where they are? The only one that won't have a filter is the rear exhaust but the tops fans pushing air into my H100i are the ones that really need it.
 

kennah

Member
Before I go and start constructing a pc case from scratch, I need to know if it is a good or bad idea to build a gaming rig around an itx board? Let's say an i5 3570k with an HD 7950? No DVD drives. I don't think I'll be overclocking. I would use a micro atx board but I'm trying to build the smallest possible pc case to sit next to my TV.

ITX is fine, like people said the lack of extra slots means no SLI/audiophile sound cards. I'm running such at home and it's awesome. The Asus Board is pretty swell too, getting a solid 4.7 GHz OC out of my 2550K.
 

plainr_

Member
The asus M ITX board is suppose to be really good for that. As long as you don't ever plan on a 2 video card set up it works well and can handle overclocking. I would be more worried about building my own case though. Proper mounting and airflow can be hard to manage.

I'm not too worried about ventilation. I have a few ideas in mind to keep the system cool and quiet.

ITX is fine, like people said the lack of extra slots means no SLI/audiophile sound cards. I'm running such at home and it's awesome. The Asus Board is pretty swell too, getting a solid 4.7 GHz OC out of my 2550K.

Thanks for the input guys. And yes, I don't plan on ever having an SLI/Crossfire setup for my living room. I have a normal desktop rig for that.
 

mkenyon

Banned
While I like it, I think Anandtech gave AMD a bit too much credit on dismissing Fraps.

Andrew addresses this question in some depth. I won't reproduce his explanation here, which is worth reading in its entirety and covers the issues of pipelining, buffering, and CPU/driver-GPU interactions. Interestingly, Andrew believes that in the case of latency spikes, buffered solutions may produce smooth frame delivery to the display. However, even if that's the case, the timing of the underlying animation is disrupted, which is just as bad:

"This sort of "jump ahead, then slow down" jitter is extremely visible to our eyes, and demonstrated well by Scott's follow-up video using a high speed camera. Note that what you are seeing are likely not changes in frame delivery to the display, but precisely the affect of the game adjusting how far it steps the simulation in time each frame. . . . A spike anywhere in the pipeline will cause the game to adjust the simulation time, which is pretty much guaranteed to produce jittery output. This is true even if frame delivery to the display (i.e. rendering pipeline output) remains buffered and consistent. i.e. it is never okay to see spikey output in frame latency graphs."​

Disruptions in the timing of the game simulation, he argues, are precisely what we want to avoid in order to ensure smooth gameplay—and Fraps writes its timestamps at a critical point in the process:

"Games measure the throughput of the pipeline via timing the back-pressure on the submission queue. The number they use to update their simulations is effectively what FRAPS measures as well."​

In other words, if Fraps captures a latency spike, the game's simulation engine likely sees the same thing, with the result being disrupted timing and less-than-smooth animation.

Fraps and measuring frame time is still FAR more accurate than FPS metrics. I think people who are still pathetically (yes, I went there, I'm getting sick of it) to second based FPS polling are going to look at this and say 'Look, it's not accurate!'.
 
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