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"I Need a New PC!" 2015 Part 1. Read the OP and RISE ABOVE FORGED PRECISION SCIENCE

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mkenyon

Banned
I almost forget how massive those are sometimes.
Why does Noctuna insist on making such ugly, ugly products....
Brand identity. When you see a Noctua product, you immediately know it. But they do have some new fans, they just don't bundle them with their heatsinks. Even though they aren't exactly pretty, I have come to associate that instant recognition with quality.
 
Okay, so I bought these parts and put it all together, but it won't boot or even POST. The external fan that's connected to the mobo whirs, and the gfx card fans go, but no display or beep. What can anyone suggest is the problem? I already had someone suggest it was the PSU, so I had it replaced and nope.

stand-offs? always check stand-offs.

if it's your first[ish] build, that's a highly common error!
 
Not really a new build but rather an upgrade:

I decided that I'll probably gonna hold for 2016 for my next build, but I was thinking of getting a cheap GPU upgrade:

CPU: Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition
RAM: 8GB @ 1333Mhz
WD 500GB HDD
GPU: Radeon HD 6850

I saw a Sapphire Radeon HD 7950 3GB GDDR5 Refurbished for 150€, the problem is..it's refurbished so god knows what kind of patches or welds the thing had, the good is it still have 1 year warranty and well, is quite cheap. Any other option for that range of price?
 

kharma45

Member
Not really a new build but rather an upgrade:

I decided that I'll probably gonna hold for 2016 for my next build, but I was thinking of getting a cheap GPU upgrade:

CPU: Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition
RAM: 8GB @ 1333Mhz
WD 500GB HDD
GPU: Radeon HD 6850

I saw a Sapphire Radeon HD 7950 3GB GDDR5 Refurbished for 150€, the problem is..it's refurbished so god knows what kind of patches or welds the thing had, the good is it still have 1 year warranty and well, is quite cheap. Any other option for that range of price?

What country are you in?
 

JakeD

Member
anyone know of a good, up to date, "idiot's guide to converting your main OS drive to SSD"?

the only link in the OP seems to be from a few years ago and the lifehacker article that comes up in google is a few years old as well

appreciate it!
 

SRG01

Member
1. I see, so your room is the issue here. Unfortunately, all the heat the computer produces will still have to go somewhere - a decent heatsink keeps the CPU running cooler, but the heat from the computer still goes into your room. Undervolting isn't nearly as common or popular as overclocking, and it's worth noting that although motherboards allow you to change voltage, usually it's to increase voltage, not decrease it, so different manufacturers will have different available ranges for setting core voltage. For example, this article by Hardware Luxx mentions that MSI and Asus offer different ranges of allowable voltage settings.

Only specific motherboards like some higher end Asus models offer BIOS flashing without a CPU. In every other case, you'd be screwed and unable to use the computer unless you didn't mind returning or exchanging the motherboard, or had an older but compatible Intel CPU to borrow so you could update the BIOS. Sometimes they do sell H81/B85 motherboards with later BIOS versions so they can support the latest processors out of the box, but unless you can confirm from the store selling the motherboard what revision you're getting, it's a gamble to go with an older motherboard. Some manufacturers do print the BIOS version of the motherboard on the outside box, others don't.

2. There are other options now that I know you don't want the ability to overclock. Features like speedstep will keep processors running quiet and cool when not being worked, and there are low power processors suitable for your needs that will ramp up performance to be close if not the same as the i7 4790.

3. On a budget, the N200 is a pretty decent case to buy. Spend a little extra on some fans (optional extra: hardware fan controller) and you're set. Some motherboards have better fan control than others, Asus is notable for having a decent fan software utility, but other manufacturers also have their own options.

4. There are cases with the plugs the way you want (Antec Centurion 5, no longer sold), they are just older, discontinued, rare, more expensive, and/or larger than the CM N200. I know you chose an mATX motherboard and case, but are you OK with ATX size?

5. Well, speaking generally most decent SSDs are already a great improvement over hard drives. Something cheap like the 120GB Kingston V300 is about $65 CAD, a little more maybe. Previous generation midrange 120/128GB SSDs are available for $80~90, like the Crucial MX100.

Cloning drives is easy enough, there are many guides and free software available, like this.

I wouldn't really pay that much for that case. Seems overpriced for the features and design. Regarding your new build, I have some parts suggestions:

I have a solution to help with the processor heat and motherboard compatibility issue: go with this i7 4770S processor ($343) instead. It's older but not very different from the i7 4790 in specs and performance. However, the fact that it's an S model processor means that it produces less heat (65 watt TDP versus the 4790's 84 watt TDP) and that it's slightly older means that it will definitely be compatible with the cheaper and equally as old H81/B85 motherboards without needing a BIOS update.

Also, I recommend this ASRock H81m-HDS motherboard instead. It's $56 after rebate which makes it a bit cheaper, and it also has USB 3.0 which the Gigabyte model doesn't have.

Although it costs more, this Gigabyte wifi adaptor ($35) comes with a lot of features. I liked the antenna on a wire as it allows the antenna to be placed high or toward a certain direction for better signal.

Other than that, not much else to say. Prices recently dropped slightly on a 2TB Toshiba hard drive, it's $88 today.[/URL]?

I'll have to reply to these in reverse order:

- That Toshiba drive seems pretty tempting. They have roughly the same reliabilities as WD, right?

- I actually looked at that same network adapter and was tempted to select it as well. I might replace the TP-Link with this one, as soon as I figure out whether or not I need Bluetooth.

- The specifications page for the Gigabyte says that it has USB 3.0? Or am I missing something here? At any rate, it seems like that some revisions of H81 motherboards are shipping with Haswell-refresh/Pentium compatible firmware (according to Newegg comments) so there's that. I'll take a look at the ASUS one too, since I have a bit of a soft spot for them back from my system assembler days.

- Haha, for some reason PPP is showing the price of the 4770S to be about $10 more than the 4790 :) Still, the 4770S is pretty attractive considering the TDP. Almost 20W difference, which is a lot of heat.

- I used to have an ATX case ages ago, and it was always a hassle to fit it in my current desk setup. A mATX Mid-Tower is just the right size for a table-top setup without being unobtrusive... Alternatively, I could eBay an old chassis, but I'd run into the issue of screws possibly missing, warped case from shipping etc.

I'll reply more later.. have to get back to work :D Thanks for your inputs!!
 

RGM79

Member
I'll have to reply to these in reverse order:

- That Toshiba drive seems pretty tempting. They have roughly the same reliabilities as WD, right?

- I actually looked at that same network adapter and was tempted to select it as well. I might replace the TP-Link with this one, as soon as I figure out whether or not I need Bluetooth.

- The specifications page for the Gigabyte says that it has USB 3.0? Or am I missing something here? At any rate, it seems like that some revisions of H81 motherboards are shipping with Haswell-refresh/Pentium compatible firmware (according to Newegg comments) so there's that. I'll take a look at the ASUS one too, since I have a bit of a soft spot for them back from my system assembler days.

- Haha, for some reason PPP is showing the price of the 4770S to be about $10 more than the 4790 :) Still, the 4770S is pretty attractive considering the TDP. Almost 20W difference, which is a lot of heat.

- I used to have an ATX case ages ago, and it was always a hassle to fit it in my current desk setup. A mATX Mid-Tower is just the right size for a table-top setup without being unobtrusive... Alternatively, I could eBay an old chassis, but I'd run into the issue of screws possibly missing, warped case from shipping etc.

I'll reply more later.. have to get back to work :D Thanks for your inputs!!
1. Yeah, Toshiba is fine in terms of reliability.

2. Yes, it's quite nice, I've recommended it in the past to others who wanted wifi connectivity. It is nearly twice as much as the TP-Link model, though.

3. Sorry, I guess I left off a word so I wasn't clear enough. Yes, the Gigabyte GA-H81M-DS2V does have USB 3.0, but only in the form of two USB 3.0 ports at the rear panel. It doesn't have USB 3.0 header (the internal connector) for hooking up a case's front panel USB 3.0 ports. In other words, the USB 3.0 ports on the front of a case like the N200 wouldn't work with the Gigabyte motherboard.

4. Yeah, unfortunately that's not a mistake. Older yet still compatible processors aren't discounted compared to existing processors, they are almost never sold for cheaper.

5. Yeah, that's fine, it just reduces the overall range of products to look at. Going mATX is actually cheaper than regular ATX size.
 
Nice! All you need is a 3 pin to molex connector. You will not be able to do fan control with that though, so keep in mind it'll be running 100%. With most new fans, that's not really an issue as they are designed to cap out somewhere between 1200-1400 RPM.

I was thinking a little, would it be better if i made one of my fans that blow out psudriven? I'm worried that it might take in too much dust if the fan going in in kept on max at all times.
 

thespot84

Member
sharing my experience in case it help someone else.

If you have or are going to buy the corsair H water coolers, especially on an LGA1150, use small split washers on the backplate to ensure that your pump is making good contact with the IHS. I went from 80C during gaming and throttling during stress testing to never breaking 50c once i reseated with the washers.
 

louiedog

Member
Oh man. This 60hz 4k 28" monitor at monoprice is making me want to drop $1k on it and a 980. If only I hadn't spent $500 of my gaming budget on hardware a month ago.
 

LilJoka

Member
Okay, so I bought these parts and put it all together, but it won't boot or even POST. The external fan that's connected to the mobo whirs, and the gfx card fans go, but no display or beep. What can anyone suggest is the problem? I already had someone suggest it was the PSU, so I had it replaced and nope.

Did you plug your display cable into the GPU and not the Motherboard? Motherboard display connectors are disabled when a GPU is present, in your case, the CPU has no onboard graphics anyways.
On custom builds a lot of boards wont beep, they may not have a speaker built in.

In terms of power connections you should have:
4 Pin CPU
24 Pin ATX Power
6 Pin PCIE to GPU
8 Pin PCIE to GPU
 

louiedog

Member
Okay, so I bought these parts and put it all together, but it won't boot or even POST. The external fan that's connected to the mobo whirs, and the gfx card fans go, but no display or beep. What can anyone suggest is the problem? I already had someone suggest it was the PSU, so I had it replaced and nope.

Silly question, but did you plug the GPU power connector(s) in?
 

Willectro

Banned
Why does Noctuna insist on making such ugly, ugly products....

I actually like the look of their products. Their focus is clearly on performance, Corsair and others should take note. The NH-D15 is a monster in terms of air cooling performance. The thing shits all over the H100i and is far easier to install and maintain. Price is the only real concern.
 

mkenyon

Banned
I was thinking a little, would it be better if i made one of my fans that blow out psudriven? I'm worried that it might take in too much dust if the fan going in in kept on max at all times.
Interestingly enough, having a greater amount of intake pressure as compared to exhaust is what will help keep your PC clean.
Oh man. This 60hz 4k 28" monitor at monoprice is making me want to drop $1k on it and a 980. If only I hadn't spent $500 of my gaming budget on hardware a month ago.
Surely you mean their upcoming 120Hz IPS 1440p panel?

:p
I actually like the look of their products. Their focus is clearly on performance, Corsair and others should take note. The NH-D15 is a monster in terms of air cooling performance. The thing shits all over the H100i and is far easier to install and maintain. Price is the only real concern.
"shits all over"

But the thing is, there's very few instances when any of that matters. Maybe on some insane socket 2011 overclock where you're able to get some dream chip and push it to 5.0 GHz+, then that extra oomph might be helpful when you're talking about 300W+ of heat. Otherwise, pmuch anything over a Hyper 212 EVO w/ quality fan is going to be overkill when you're talking about consumer socket processors.

People buy things like the H100i for aesthetics, and I get that. Personally, I always opt for AIO water cooling (outside of my custom loop machines) due to how easy it is to get in there and tinker/troubleshoot. I'll take ease of access and a bit of a price premium over a giant aluminum and copper hunk of metal hanging off my motherboard and blocking all my memory, power, and whatnot. The number of bloody knuckles I've had has reduced dramatically since I made the switch.
 
got my noctua nh-d15 today. really happy with, it keeps my i7 3930k @ 4.6ghz quietly and cool ( under 80c)

b5nb.jpg

I'm waiting for my NH-D15 to get here soon as well for my 3770k, but for a 4.6ghz OC I've seen the cooler average under 70c temps. Whats your voltage at to keep it stable?
 

RGM79

Member
sharing my experience in case it help someone else.

If you have or are going to buy the corsair H water coolers, especially on an LGA1150, use small split washers on the backplate to ensure that your pump is making good contact with the IHS. I went from 80C during gaming and throttling during stress testing to never breaking 50c once i reseated with the washers.
Good to hear you got that problem solved. It sucks, but it's on Corsair for not having adequately tested enough to discover the issue. Few other coolers have issues with spacing in the first place, even with thinner motherboard PCB.
 

thespot84

Member
Good to hear you got that problem solved. It sucks, but it's on Corsair for not having adequately tested enough to discover the issue. Few other coolers have issues with spacing in the first place, even with thinner motherboard PCB.

I still like my h100i, and the temps i get are great and it's quiet, but yes it would have been nice to know this all going in. I might not have needed to RMA my first unit too lol
 

NoRéN

Member
All this talk of Noctua's giant coolers had me curious so I looked up install videos.

No way it's that easy to install?! Really?
 

mkenyon

Banned
Just don't use one with an ASRock board :p
I'm waiting for my NH-D15 to get here soon as well for my 3770k, but for a 4.6ghz OC I've seen the cooler average under 70c temps. Whats your voltage at to keep it stable?
Unless you delid that 3770K, it's not really going to matter which heatsink you have over a Hyper 212 Evo.
 

NoRéN

Member
I can assure you that it is.

In my ignorance, when i would see pictures of people's builds here I always wondered, " How the hell do you secure that thing?!"

Made no sense to me. Watching videos now, it really blew my mind. I still favor aesthetics over low noise but damn if that wasn't impressive to see.
 

LilJoka

Member
NoRéN;151340153 said:
All this talk of Noctua's giant coolers had me curious so I looked up install videos.

No way it's that easy to install?! Really?

On the air cooler side noctua have the best mounting mechanism.

At the end of the day it's the same for every cooler. You get a bag of accessories and you have to use the manual to work out what bits to use for your setup. The only difference is you don't have the towers in the way. Not a big deal when the air cooler will be quieter, that's more important for me.
 

Ryne

Member
If you don't have a video card and are currently looking to buy one, what card would you suggest?

My friend currently has this predicament, he doesn't have a card at all due to him smashing his 780 somehow. I suggested he get the 970 (I would have sold him my 970 FTW+ if I didn't return it once I got a good price on a 980), however he is still looking for suggestions. Since he is building a computer early next year, I thought the 970 would be a good stopgap card for a year-ish.

Budget of 1000$ CAD.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Trying to figure out a way to either mod a fan in or find some screw holes for an SP120 to face both GPU's as I had cooling issue with GPU2 in my x79 rig.
 

mkenyon

Banned
If you don't have a video card and are currently looking to buy one, what card would you suggest?

My friend currently has this predicament, he doesn't have a card at all due to him smashing his 780 somehow. I suggested he get the 970 (I would have sold him my 970 FTW+ if I didn't return it once I got a good price on a 980), however he is still looking for suggestions. Since he is building a computer early next year, I thought the 970 would be a good stopgap card for a year-ish.

Budget of 1000$ CAD.
Buy the best possible card you can, IMO.

The 970 and 290/290X are all great for the price @ 1080p and 1440p.
 

Kyne

Member
About to do a major overhaul on my computer.. sans the case, this is what I'll be ordering.
Anyone have any suggestions/critics? Is this all gonna mesh well together?

Thanks for the input!
 

RGM79

Member
If you don't have a video card and are currently looking to buy one, what card would you suggest?

My friend currently has this predicament, he doesn't have a card at all due to him smashing his 780 somehow. I suggested he get the 970 (I would have sold him my 970 FTW+ if I didn't return it once I got a good price on a 980), however he is still looking for suggestions. Since he is building a computer early next year, I thought the 970 would be a good stopgap card for a year-ish.

Budget of 1000$ CAD.
$1000 for a single card? What resolution is he playing at? Is he looking for higher performance or just just a "temporary" card for now?
 

Ryne

Member
$1000 for a single card? What resolution is he playing at? Is he looking for higher performance or just just a "temporary" card for now?

Mostly temporary as he is building a new pc along with me early next year. He's playing at 1440p.

The Canadian dollar is pretty weak right now, so prices are pretty high. If I didn't get a deal on my EVGA GTX 980 SC, I would have had to pay 750$ for it including taxes and shipping. He makes a lot more money than I do though, so his budget is higher.

Trying to get him on Neogaf, he's not approved yet though.
 

SpeedyDesiato

Neo Member
Silly question, but did you plug the GPU power connector(s) in?

Did you plug your display cable into the GPU and not the Motherboard? Motherboard display connectors are disabled when a GPU is present, in your case, the CPU has no onboard graphics anyways.
On custom builds a lot of boards wont beep, they may not have a speaker built in.

In terms of power connections you should have:
4 Pin CPU
24 Pin ATX Power
6 Pin PCIE to GPU
8 Pin PCIE to GPU

All the correct cables are plugged - and I don't take it offensively, no worries! When I first tried switching it on, I had indeed forgot the 4pin!

stand-offs? always check stand-offs.

if it's your first[ish] build, that's a highly common error!

Okay, what exactly do you mean by this? The little bits of metal that keep it *effectively* floating in place about the case? What do I need to check? :)
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Progress so far as I don't have everything and things are still not set in place. I removed the back side 140mm out and put it next to the 2 SP140's so the whole top is out and there is 2 front, 1 bottom, and 1 rear intake. The top outs on the SP140's are for the H110iGT which will be in push/pull.


Haven't taken out the protective film on the side panel as I'm not done yet or else you would be able to see inside better.
 
EDIT: ^^ Nice case haha

Actually switched out my case for the H440 to the 760T. I love this case haha. But everything is finished now and here is the setup!

obi4A9c.jpg


X9gDvbT.jpg
 

mkenyon

Banned
Looks awesome!

Though honestly, I'd keep that rear fan as exhaust. The intake from the front and bottom is going to be plenty for the paltry heat those things are putting out. Plus you run the risk of recycling hot GPU and PSU air back into the case with the rear intake.

You won't need that exhaust above the expansion bay either.

3 intake + 3 exhaust is plenty.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Great case and great job ^^. I still have yet to get my M.2 and regular SSD's and you won't be able to even see the M.2 since it's right below the bottom GPU.

Is that an H100i and 2 fans?

Noted mkenyon. Right now the top 3 140mm's are out and there are 4 intakes.
 
Why does Noctuna insist on making such ugly, ugly products....

I almost forget how massive those are sometimes.

Brand identity. When you see a Noctua product, you immediately know it. But they do have some new fans, they just don't bundle them with their heatsinks. Even though they aren't exactly pretty, I have come to associate that instant recognition with quality.

I've got the Noctua NH-D15 and like I said before, it offers unbeatable high-end cooling - noise ratio for its price. Only downside is the somewhat ugly appearance.

So here is what I am doing. I am going to buy a set of Noctua's new, rather sexy (black/brown) NF-A14 Industrial 2000 fans to replace the NF-A15 PWM fans that come with the NH-D15 cooler.

images


Admittedly, these fans coupled with the D15 cooler is overkill for anything other than overclocked i7 Devil's Canyon/Haswell-E processors, and adds another £40+ on top of the cost of the cooler, but I need a set of new case fans anyway, so I'll move the already premium quality NF-A15 fans onto my case, hidden as front intakes.
 

mkenyon

Banned
Yeah, I'm sayin' you likely won't see a difference in temps either way, might as well drop a few fans to reduce overall noise.
 
Great case and great job ^^. I still have yet to get my M.2 and regular SSD's and you won't be able to even see the M.2 since it's right below the bottom GPU.

Is that an H100i and 2 fans?

Noted mkenyon. Right now the top 3 140mm's are out and there are 4 intakes.

Yep that is an H100i, replaced the fans for the SP120 high performance fans (on sale for 28 bucks). Though since I like my PC silent, I'm probably going to reduce the rpms to what the SP120 silent fans are.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Can drop the rear fan but my main concern is heat to the top GPU as my 780ti config really hurt that top GPU and I put 2 SP120's directly to the side blowing air right on between both GPU's.

So 2 front and 1 bottom in - 3 top exhaust?

I should edit and say 5 outs since the H110iGT will have 4 outs.
 

LilJoka

Member
All the correct cables are plugged - and I don't take it offensively, no worries! When I first tried switching it on, I had indeed forgot the 4pin!

Okay, what exactly do you mean by this? The little bits of metal that keep it *effectively* floating in place about the case? What do I need to check? :)

Yeah the screws that raise the board off the case floor. The IO shield would not line up if you didnt install them.

Try remove a single RAM stick. Try each stick individually in each slot. You can remove the CPU Fan temporarily if its blocking access to the RAM, leave the CPU heatsink screwed on. Fan should slide up easily and removed. Tricky bit is unplugging the fan cable hah.

Also unplug the SATA cable that connects the hard disk/ssd to the motherboard from the drive side temporarily.

My instinct is telling me that you have plugged the display cable into the motherboard rather than the GPU however, so double check this.

Post some pics of the PC if you can.
 

erlim

yes, that talented of a member
It's sad because resident evil started as a series with so much atmosphere. Even thinking about 1,2, code Veronica, and 4 I have very vivid recollections. Revelations has about as much atmosphere as the gun savior and dead aim series. 6 is completely forgettable.
 

RGM79

Member
Mostly temporary as he is building a new pc along with me early next year. He's playing at 1440p.

The Canadian dollar is pretty weak right now, so prices are pretty high. If I didn't get a deal on my EVGA GTX 980 SC, I would have had to pay 750$ for it including taxes and shipping. He makes a lot more money than I do though, so his budget is higher.

Trying to get him on Neogaf, he's not approved yet though.

For a temporary solution, you probably don't want to spend so much. There's the XFX R9 290 for $300 after $30 rebate, it's very comparable to the GTX 780.
 

SpeedyDesiato

Neo Member
Yeah the screws that raise the board off the case floor. The IO shield would not line up if you didnt install them.


Try remove a single RAM stick. Try each stick individually in each slot. You can remove the CPU Fan temporarily if its blocking access to the RAM, leave the CPU heatsink screwed on. Fan should slide up easily and removed. Tricky bit is unplugging the fan cable hah.

Also unplug the SATA cable that connects the hard disk/ssd to the motherboard from the drive side temporarily.

My instinct is telling me that you have plugged the display cable into the motherboard rather than the GPU however, so double check this.

Post some pics of the PC if you can.

I'll post some pics later this week - but I definitely plugged the cable into the GPU (I then tried the mobo when it failed). I think it might be the screws thing - I know that the mobo is actually a little loose b/c one of the corners was a BITCH to screw and didn't install correctly. Will try again and let you know :)
 

LilJoka

Member
I'll post some pics later this week - but I definitely plugged the cable into the GPU (I then tried the mobo when it failed). I think it might be the screws thing - I know that the mobo is actually a little loose b/c one of the corners was a BITCH to screw and didn't install correctly. Will try again and let you know :)

Use a socket from a toolset to screw the standoff in, the case should actually come with a a silver socket that goes over the standoff allowing it to be driven with a screwdriver.

Also my advise for anyone building an ITX rig, build it on the motherboard box first!
 

mkenyon

Banned
Can drop the rear fan but my main concern is heat to the top GPU as my 780ti config really hurt that top GPU and I put 2 SP120's directly to the side blowing air right on between both GPU's.

So 2 front and 1 bottom in - 3 top exhaust?

I should edit and say 5 outs since the H110iGT will have 4 outs.
Yeah, but with a 780 Ti (at stock), that's 260W+ of heat. With a 970, it's only 160W. So between the two cards, you're looking at 320W compared to 520W. Pretty huge difference there.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Yeah, but with a 780 Ti (at stock), that's 260W+ of heat. With a 970, it's only 160W. So between the two cards, you're looking at 320W compared to 520W. Pretty huge difference there.
I'll run it without the rear exhaust and see where I sit when I finish putting it together in 2-3 days then.

Those tripple fan blowers make me over think things vs reference.
 
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