Support NeoGAF

[Fermbiz]

Looks great. What case is this?

Is the case upside down or is the motherboard upside down? I could’ve sworn the vertical LED strip on that case is on the right side.

Lian Li O11 Dynamic Evo. I can switch sides of the case where the glass is facing right instead of the usual left. So everything is inverted.

O11 DYNAMIC EVO - LIAN LI is a Leading Provider of PC Cases | Computer Cases

Keep cool with the O11 Dynamic series all-new design and express the preferable configuration. REVERSIBLE CHASSIS MESH PANEL INTEGRATION FLEXIBLE CONFIGURATION OPTIMIZE COOLING SUPPORT 9 DRIVES CAPACITY CABLE MANAGEMENT FRIENDLY 5 OPTIONAL ACCESSORIES GERMAN ENGINEERED...

lian-li.com

 

[GymWolf]

Well shit, the place where i bought the gpu told me that it is not really available (call me shocked) and so the waiting could be bigger than i anticipated (delivery was estimated for 17 jan) so i have to wait monday to call them and ask if it is a matter of days or weeks or more.

hey told that i can ask for a full refound so that's a bad sign already...

I'm kinda eye-watching an inno3d 4090 for around 1500 euros just because

Edit: shit this thing consume more than an ex-wife...

 

[DanEON]

I am a bit confused about ddr5 memory. Do I need EXPO memory for AM5 build? Or can I use XMP memory? And if I use XMP memory on AM5 mobo, will I be able to just select the XMP profile in the bios or I will need to set the timings manually??

 

[winjer]

I am a bit confused about ddr5 memory. Do I need EXPO memory for AM5 build? Or can I use XMP memory? And if I use XMP memory on AM5 mobo, will I be able to just select the XMP profile in the bios or I will need to set the timings manually??

EXPO and XMP serve the same purpose, to set timings that are a bit more optimized than the JEDEC standard.

For a long time, AMD was basically borrowing the same settings as Intel from XMP.
With EXPO, these are timings optimized for Zen4 memory controller. So it should perform a it better on AMD. Maybe.

If you are building an AMD system, it's probably best to buy a kit with support for EXPO. But it's not essential.

Also, if you want the best performance, then the way to go is to disable EXPO or XMP, and set timings manually.
It's a complicated process that requires time, patience and skill. But it will bring much better memory latency and bandwidth.

 

[twilo99]

Lian Li O11 Dynamic Evo. I can switch sides of the case where the glass is facing right instead of the usual left. So everything is inverted.

O11 DYNAMIC EVO - LIAN LI is a Leading Provider of PC Cases | Computer Cases

Keep cool with the O11 Dynamic series all-new design and express the preferable configuration. REVERSIBLE CHASSIS MESH PANEL INTEGRATION FLEXIBLE CONFIGURATION OPTIMIZE COOLING SUPPORT 9 DRIVES CAPACITY CABLE MANAGEMENT FRIENDLY 5 OPTIONAL ACCESSORIES GERMAN ENGINEERED...

lian-li.com

That's a nice case.

 

[PhoenixTank]

I am a bit confused about ddr5 memory. Do I need EXPO memory for AM5 build? Or can I use XMP memory? And if I use XMP memory on AM5 mobo, will I be able to just select the XMP profile in the bios or I will need to set the timings manually??

Unless there is a significant price difference I'd grab an EXPO kit and save yourself the potential heartache.

 

[DanEON]

Unless there is a significant price difference I'd grab an EXPO kit and save yourself the potential heartache.

Yep, Thats what I did.

 

[dcx4610]

I'm just waiting on the ATX 3.0 PSUs. My PC is on 24/7 so it makes me a little nervous to be a beta tester for ATX 3.0 but I guess I'll have to happen. I just don't trust using existing PSUs with the new GTX cards.

 

[Celcius]

I'm just waiting on the ATX 3.0 PSUs. My PC is on 24/7 so it makes me a little nervous to be a beta tester for ATX 3.0 but I guess I'll have to happen. I just don't trust using existing PSUs with the new GTX cards.

Should be fine if you have a reputable brand, quality unit, and have the cable plugged in all the way

 

[rnlval]

I am a bit confused about ddr5 memory. Do I need EXPO memory for AM5 build? Or can I use XMP memory? And if I use XMP memory on AM5 mobo, will I be able to just select the XMP profile in the bios or I will need to set the timings manually??

It depends on the motherboard model, it can support both XMP and EXPO.

For the ASUS TUF Gaming X670E Plus Wifi with BIOS 0821 example, both memory products such as following

Team T-Force Delta RGB DDR5-5600 32GB (2x16GB) FF4D532G5600HC36BDC01, XMP (under DOCP label) mode CL36-36-36-76 DDR5-5600. (The FF4D532G5600HC36BDC01 is in ASUS TUF Gaming X670E Plus Wifi's QVL.)​

G.Skill Trident Z5 Neo RGB DDR5-6000 32GB (2x16GB) F5-6000J3038F16GX2-TZ5NR, EXPO mode CL30-36-36-96 DDR5-6000. (This motherboard model is in G.Skill F5-6000J3038F16GX2-TZ5NR's QVL.)​

works fine with this motherboard.

 

[Captn]

Yep, Thats what I did.

Good stuff! I also bought AMD Expo for my 7950x setup but did not fiddle with the settings yet.

https://www.newegg.ca/g-skill-32gb/p/N82E16820374427?Item=N82E16820374427

 

[Captn]

It depends on the motherboard model, it can support both XMP and EXPO.

For the ASUS TUF Gaming X670E Plus Wifi with BIOS 0821 example, both memory products such as following

Team T-Force Delta RGB DDR5-5600 32GB (2x16GB) FF4D532G5600HC36BDC01, XMP mode CL36-36-36-76 DDR5-5600. In FF4D532G5600HC36BDC01 in ASUS TUF Gaming X670E Plus Wifi's QVL.​

G.Skill Trident Z5 Neo RGB DDR5-6000 32GB (2x16GB) F5-6000J3038F16GX2-TZ5NR, EXPO mode CL30-36-36-96 DDR5-6000. Motherboard model in G.Skill F5-6000J3038F16GX2-TZ5NR's QVL.​

works fine with this motherboard.

That is exactly the board I use and memory kit F5-6000J3038F16GX2-TZ5NR, EXPO mode CL30-36-36-96 DDR5-6000

Works like a charm!

 

[rnlval]

EXPO and XMP serve the same purpose, to set timings that are a bit more optimized than the JEDEC standard.

For a long time, AMD was basically borrowing the same settings as Intel from XMP.
With EXPO, these are timings optimized for Zen4 memory controller. So it should perform a it better on AMD. Maybe.

If you are building an AMD system, it's probably best to buy a kit with support for EXPO. But it's not essential.

Also, if you want the best performance, then the way to go is to disable EXPO or XMP, and set timings manually.
It's a complicated process that requires time, patience and skill. But it will bring much better memory latency and bandwidth.

It's less complicated when copying tighter memory settings from another user with the same motherboard and RAM modules.

For example with tighter memory settings

I copied the above settings from somebody else with the same RAM model and ROG CrossHire X670E which I applied on my ROG CrossHair X670E and TUF Gaming X670E Plus Wifi motherboards.

 

[Captn]

It's less complicated when copying tighter memory settings from another user with the same motherboard and RAM modules.

For example with tighter memory settings

I copied the above settings from somebody else with the same RAM model and ROG CrossHire X670E which I applied on my ROG CrossHair X670E and TUF Gaming X670E Plus Wifi motherboards.

Did you put in all these settings into the bios directly or are you using a software ? Like the screen above, can you use that software to dial in these settings ?

Thx

 

[PhoenixTank]

Did you put in all these settings into the bios directly or are you using a software ? Like the screen above, can you use that software to dial in these settings ?

Thx

It'd be BIOS side. ZenTimings is wonderful for sharing timings though

 

[Captn]

It'd be BIOS side. ZenTimings is wonderful for sharing timings though

Perfect!! Thanks!! I'll check it out. The only downside to this for me is the Tuff gaming x670E wifi plus does not have a clear c-mos button on the back panel which is really annoying having to move my whole case, open it and just clear it from the inside.

Pain in the ass for the way I am set.

 

[iQuasarLV]

Alright, so I am going to chime in here with my own subject of inquiry. Since GPU are stupid overpriced this gen I am going to focus my efforts on a monitor as I am still running a 6700 XT and a I9 10850 so I am good for another gen.
My current gaming use is on a 55 Sony X75(HorJ) model TV wall mounted.
Since the monitor seems to be the premier pick for elevating gaming enjoyment, I want to upgrade this bad boy to an awesome midrange option. I guess it is to assume OLED is a requirement and budget is $1k or less as I don't make much to afford stupid premium TV/monitors out there.

Suggestions?

 

[Windle Poons]

What size?

Posted earlier in the thread but dis gonna be good.

 

[LavitzSlambert]

My desktop stopped booting this weekend, red CPU light in the motherboard is not giving me hope. But I am gonna try replacing the battery and try another PSU in its place. I don’t think they sell Z97s or Devil’s Canyon CPUs anymore and I’m not at all interested in building a new system at these prices. Pray for me fellas.

 

[LokusAbriss]

Would an upgrade from a 3600X to a 5600x/5700x make sense? I just upgrade to a 6700 XT from my RTX 2060.
From articles and videos I get mixed results for my case.

 

[twilo99]

Would an upgrade from a 3600X to a 5600x/5700x make sense? I just upgrade to a 6700 XT from my RTX 2060.
From articles and videos I get mixed results for my case.

I think so.. I upgraded from 3600 to 5600x and saw quite a bit of improvement overall, but that's on a 6800xt

 

[Xyphie]

Would an upgrade from a 3600X to a 5600x/5700x make sense? I just upgrade to a 6700 XT from my RTX 2060.
From articles and videos I get mixed results for my case.

A R5 5600 is only $150 (and you get Company of Heroes 3 bundled atm). If you sell your 3600X you can probably recoup half of the cost that way making it a pretty cheap upgrade. Should see some improvements in CPU-limited games.

 

[GymWolf]

As i predicted, the cunts where i bought the gpu have no idea of when they are gonna have the gpu available so i asked a complete refound.

The hunt for a good priced 4080 start again.

This shit only happen with stores that sell pc parts, someone should start to sue their asses so maybe they are gonna think twice about letting people buy products that are not actually available, fuck this shit.

 

[b0uncyfr0]

Speaking of 'cheap' upgrades: Is it worth going from a 4.5Ghz 3770k to a 3600x / B450 / 16Gb DDR4 build?

The upgrade would only cost about 100-150 bucks. Ive got a 6600xt and i'd be playing around 1080p -1440p @ 144hz ideally (or as close as possible)

I know it wont improve my maximum framerate much, especially at 1440p, but how about the minimums..?

 

[winjer]

Speaking of 'cheap' upgrades: Is it worth going from a 4.5Ghz 3770k to a 3600x / B450 / 16Gb DDR4 build?

The upgrade would only cost about 100-150 bucks. Ive got a 6600xt and i'd be playing around 1080p -1440p @ 144hz ideally (or as close as possible)

I know it wont improve my maximum framerate much, especially at 1440p, but how about the minimums..?

Yes, it will be a huge improvement. For a few reasons.
The 3770K only supports PCIe Gen3 which is very limiting on a GPU like the 6600XT.
The 3700X supports Gen4, but most B450 motherboards don't. So it would be advisable to get a B550 motherboard, even if it costs you a bit more.
Because the 6600XT only has 8X PCIe lanes, this can become a big bottleneck in certain games, especially when there is a lot of data streaming from CPU to GPU.
Most games will lose around 5%-10% in performance, but there are cases where it can lose up to 25%, like Doom Eternal. Minimum frame rates should improve a lot as well.

The 3700X is also a much more powerful CPU. It has double the cores and threads. And it supports DDR4 which can be much faster than DDR3. But remember to get at least DDR4 3200, because Zen2 likes fast memory.
So this will also help a lot in improving average and minimum frame rates.

 

[b0uncyfr0]

Yes, it will be a huge improvement. For a few reasons.
The 3770K only supports PCIe Gen3 which is very limiting on a GPU like the 6600XT.
The 3700X supports Gen4, but most B450 motherboards don't. So it would be advisable to get a B550 motherboard, even if it costs you a bit more.

The 3700X is also a much more powerful CPU.

3600x , not 3700x.

 

[winjer]

3600x , not 3700x.

In games, they are almost identical, as most games don't use more than 6C12T.

 

[samoilaaa]

i have an 3900x , 32 gb ram , 1080 ti

i have enough money for a 4070 ti but i dont know if i should upgrade or switch to a console , doesnt matter if its xbox or ps , im getting tired of these pc components prices but at the same time having the best graphics and fps is important for me

what should i do ?

 

[GreatnessRD]

i have an 3900x , 32 gb ram , 1080 ti

i have enough money for a 4070 ti but i dont know if i should upgrade or switch to a console , doesnt matter if its xbox or ps , im getting tired of these pc components prices but at the same time having the best graphics and fps is important for me

what should i do ?

Should wait for a sale on GPUs. 1080 Ti still good and affords you more time to wait and strike when the time is right.

 

[PhoenixTank]

3600x , not 3700x.

GN has a retrospective look from a bit more than a couple of years ago:


Going very roughly on Passmark scores, your OC'd 3770K should be in the ballpark of a stock 4790k which is featured.
Should give you a picture of what to expect when upgrading to Ryzen 3000.

Possible to grab a 5600 (non x) instead alongside a B550 as suggested by winjer? Or is this an "all or nothing" purchase from someone?

Ryzen 5000 has a very healthy 20%+ increase from the 3000 series but if this is a second hand am4 purchase, possibly not worth the money to swap out.

 

[MikeM]

i have an 3900x , 32 gb ram , 1080 ti

i have enough money for a 4070 ti but i dont know if i should upgrade or switch to a console , doesnt matter if its xbox or ps , im getting tired of these pc components prices but at the same time having the best graphics and fps is important for me

what should i do ?

Pretty loaded question my man. Have you had consoles before? Is money of concern?

You said you love fps and high end graphics. PC is where its at if that is the case.

 

[samoilaaa]

Pretty loaded question my man. Have you had consoles before? Is money of concern?

You said you love fps and high end graphics. PC is where its at if that is the case.

yeah i have a ps4 and xbox one , i have enough money for a 4070 ti and if i really try i can save for an 4080

ps5/xsx has nice graphics for now but i can see in 2-3 years for games to be at medium settings on consoles

 

[MikeM]

yeah i have a ps4 and xbox one , i have enough money for a 4070 ti and if i really try i can save for an 4080

ps5/xsx has nice graphics for now but i can see in 2-3 years for games to be at medium settings on consoles

Meh. I have a PS5 and a 5600/7900xt PC. Use them both 50/50.

Honestly, medium settings is still going to look very good. For me, the wildcard is 30 fps which is the main reason for my PC. Anything 60fps or higher gets serious consideration for console. Both are attached to my LG C1.

You could get a 4070ti then a bit later get a 5800x3d. Be set for another 5 years. I personally would go for a 7900xt or 7900xtx for a bit more money (not sure where you live tho).

 

[samoilaaa]

Meh. I have a PS5 and a 5600/7900xt PC. Use them both 50/50.

Honestly, medium settings is still going to look very good. For me, the wildcard is 30 fps which is the main reason for my PC. Anything 60fps or higher gets serious consideration for console. Both are attached to my LG C1.

You could get a 4070ti then a bit later get a 5800x3d. Be set for another 5 years. I personally would go for a 7900xt or 7900xtx for a bit more money (not sure where you live tho).

i dont see a reason for an 5800 , 3900x will be good enough for a couple of years for 60 fps

 

[Black_Stride]

As i predicted, the cunts where i bought the gpu have no idea of when they are gonna have the gpu available so i asked a complete refound.

The hunt for a good priced 4080 start again.

This shit only happen with stores that sell pc parts, someone should start to sue their asses so maybe they are gonna think twice about letting people buy products that are not actually available, fuck this shit.

Ohh snafu you are back to hunting for a GPU?

If you can find a Gainward or Palit in my part of the world they are the best priced, while this gen Palit seems to have cheaped out a bit on power delivery they are still beyond decent GPUs and assuming youve got a decent PSU, transient spikes shouldnt be too much of an issue. (inno3d is actually the cheapest but they sell out in second)

The PNY Verto is also a really solid GPU thats people dont fully trust so non-OCs should still be in stock.
But again outside of certain regions PNY supplies very few "high end" GPUs.

 

[GymWolf]

Ohh snafu you are back to hunting for a GPU?

If you can find a Gainward or Palit in my part of the world they are the best priced, while this gen Palit seems to have cheaped out a bit on power delivery they are still beyond decent GPUs and assuming youve got a decent PSU, transient spikes shouldnt be too much of an issue. (inno3d is actually the cheapest but they sell out in second)

The PNY Verto is also a really solid GPU thats people dont fully trust so non-OCs should still be in stock.
But again outside of certain regions PNY supplies very few "high end" GPUs.

They returned me the money so Right now i have 3 options:

A palit 4080 gaming pro non-oc (not the gamerock) for almost 100 euros less than the gigabyte
The same gigabyte at the same price in another shop
A inno3d 4090 for around 1500 euros but i could have problem with just a 850w psu, also, inno3d...

Decisions decisions.

 

[Black_Stride]

They returned me the money so Right now i have 3 options:

A palit 4080 gaming pro non-oc (not the gamerock) for almost 100 euros less than the gigabyte
The same gigabyte at the same price in another shop
A inno3d 4090 for around 1500 euros but i could have problem with just a 850w psu, also, inno3d...

Decisions decisions.

The Inno3D X3 is a pretty solid buy even with its rampant Transient spikes.
Pretty sure the X3 only has 3x8pin so even with spikes it shouldnt actually go beyond your 850W (Assuming your 136K isnt already eating a bunch of Watts).

Otherwise the Palit GamingPro is also a pretty solid buy and if you can save 100 euro that money can go to other components.

Ive got my own vendetta against Gigabytes....everythings, but I understand they are still solid devices.
Just havent got their products in a long long time after being burnt once too many times.

 

[GymWolf]

The Inno3D X3 is a pretty solid buy even with its rampant Transient spikes.
Pretty sure the X3 only has 3x8pin so even with spikes it shouldnt actually go beyond your 850W (Assuming your 136K isnt already eating a bunch of Watts).

Otherwise the Palit GamingPro is also a pretty solid buy and if you can save 100 euro that money can go to other components.

Ive got my own vendetta against Gigabytes....everythings, but I understand they are still solid devices.
Just havent got their products in a long long time after being burnt once too many times.

Gigabyte is way cooler than the gamerock (the better version of the palit) especially for the memory temps.

But the guy said that even the hottest temp in the gamerock were still pretty cool, the gaming pro is the not-as-good version so i'm worried about even hotter temps.

Also this dude made me worried about series 4000 from palit but the comments under his video says that you only have problem for heavy overclock, but i'm too noob to know what is the truth (and this dude analize the 4090 gamerock, not the cheaper gaming pro version)




Also, wtf is a transient spike? Is it like something pointy that one day decide to identify as dull?

 

[MikeM]

i dont see a reason for an 5800 , 3900x will be good enough for a couple of years for 60 fps

4070ti is overkill for 60fps on Pc.

 

[twilo99]

Just a personal opinion based on my experience with the 4070ti, but I really did not like the way it performed. My 6800xt is much better overall, but I also don't care about raytracing so maybe that had something to with it. It was an EVGA card.

 

[Black_Stride]

Gigabyte is way cooler than the gamerock (the better version of the palit) especially for the memory temps.

But the guy said that even the hottest temp in the gamerock were still pretty cool, the gaming pro is the not-as-good version so i'm worried about even hotter temps.

Also this dude made me worried about series 4000 from palit but the comments under his video says that you only have problem for heavy overclock, but i'm too noob to know what is the truth (and this dude analize the 4090 gamerock, not the cheaper gaming pro version)




Also, wtf is a transient spike? Is it like something pointy that one day decide to identify as dull?

Yup lastgen Palit/Gainward had the hidden gems of the AD102 PCBs.
This gen they have cheaped out on the VRMs for some reason.
It will work, and considering the non-OC Palits come with 3x8pin adaptor.......you wont be heavily overclocking it anyway.

Also remember buildzoids channel is literally called Actually Hardcore Overclocking.
If you arent planning on overclocking heavily there wont be any real issues with the 3x8pin cards even those with relatively weak VRMs

 

[GymWolf]

Yup lastgen Palit/Gainward had the hidden gems of the AD102 PCBs.
This gen they have cheaped out on the VRMs for some reason.
It will work, and considering the non-OC Palits come with 3x8pin adaptor.......you wont be heavily overclocking it anyway.

Also remember buildzoids channel is literally called Actually Hardcore Overclocking.
If you arent planning on overclocking heavily there wont be any real issues with the 3x8pin cards even those with relatively weak VRMs

I don't plan on overclocking at all.

I'm only worried about build quality, i don't know how much they cheapen out compared to the gamerock that is probably already 1-2 step behind the best msi and asus cards (that are probably one step behind evga and sapphire maybe, i don't know)

 

[rofif]

I just checked some benchmarks and I am surprised my 3700x is now old and slow ?!
It probably still shouldn't matter for 4k

 

[Black_Stride]

I don't plan on overclocking at all.

I'm only worried about build quality, i don't know how much they cheapen out compared to the gamerock that is probably already 1-2 step behind the best msi and asus cards (that are probably one step behind evga and sapphire maybe, i don't know)

If you follow buildzoid you will basically be living in a constant state of panic cuz his channel isnt really for the laymen PC gamer.
Its for people who are extracting the absolute most from all their components.
3D Mark leaderboard chasers.

His reviews on Memory Kits, CPUs, Motherboard and GPUs will make you honestly believe 90% of components are shit....but in reality 90% of buyers wont be doing even half of what buildzoid does.
So most components get the job done more than adequately.

P.S
EVGA doesnt make RTX40s.
Lastgen other than the thermal sensors the FTW3 and Gamerock were really comparable. (FTW3 didnt even have rear thermal pads, the Gamerock did)
And the XC3 vs GamingPro I would give the Palit GamingPro the edge.
Getting the most from the Suprim X and Strix would require a waterblock.

But in terms of cooler build quality there actually isnt all that much of a difference between the very top and the current Palit/Gainward cards.
You would be hardpressed to ever even tell which brand youve got installed.
This gen im not planning on OC'ing at all and basically dual bios and relatively quiet fans is all I need.
Which is why im still looking at PNY, Palit and Inno3D for RTX40s.
Otherwise id probably only be hunting down TUFs

 

[MikeM]

I just checked some benchmarks and I am surprised my 3700x is now old and slow ?!
It probably still shouldn't matter for 4k

Not much. Maybe slightly lower 1% lows but otherwise meh. What gpu?

 

[rofif]

Not much. Maybe slightly lower 1% lows but otherwise meh. What gpu?

3080. I usually game at 4k + DLSS if its good.
I checked and some benchmarks are at 200% for 7700x... but nobody does 4k benchmarks

 

[PhoenixTank]

Also, wtf is a transient spike? Is it like something pointy that one day decide to identify as dull?

Whole video is worth a watch but timestamped for 7:52.
Less of a relative issue on Nvidia's 4000 series reference hardware compared to the 3000 series.

On your video @35:04 Buildzoid does mention transient spikes potentially being worse than the reference cards. Or rather he said if someone measured both a 4090FE & this card any difference would be down to the capacitor choice.
Unless the spikes are tragic you should probably care more about making sure whatever you get has a decent cooler.

 

[Hawk269]

As i predicted, the cunts where i bought the gpu have no idea of when they are gonna have the gpu available so i asked a complete refound.

The hunt for a good priced 4080 start again.

This shit only happen with stores that sell pc parts, someone should start to sue their asses so maybe they are gonna think twice about letting people buy products that are not actually available, fuck this shit.

As of 10 minutes ago, Best Buy was showing the 4080 Founders Edition as available to order.

 

[GHG]

Just a personal opinion based on my experience with the 4070ti, but I really did not like the way it performed. My 6800xt is much better overall, but I also don't care about raytracing so maybe that had something to with it. It was an EVGA card.

There is no EVGA 4070 ti.

 

[cartman414]

Will Intel's thermals necessarily improve when they go chiplet in a gen or two?