I took a trip to North Korea. (Pic heavy)
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SuperBanana
Banned
Thank you for being an expert in North Korea and propaganda. I guess that dead guy we saw was also part of the trickery. Haha, he's dead! Kidding, an actor! There's obviously propaganda and it's everywhere but they can be so far up their own arse that you can see it easily. If you go there you'd know what I mean.
Yes, yes, if the regime isn't about to collapse, then there is nothing morally wrong with funneling cash into it. Whatever you tell yourself at night to help you sleep.
That's uncalled for, tone it down.
And generally to the rest of the posters in this thread, while I think it's fine to discuss the moral issues around visiting North Korea, be fucking respectful, please.
Fenderputty
Banned
Yes, that's clearly the disgusting part of this whole thing.
flintstryker
Banned
Interesting post op, thanks for sharing
djplaeskool
Member
Now I want to get my hands on some of that DPRK brew.
smhhhhhhh
Xamtheking
Member
OP, I think it's a balance. I don't think it was "100% propaganda you are already dead", but at least part of what you saw was definitely influenced by the government
tearsintherain
Member
Fascinating story and pics, thanks for posting OP.
I truly wonder though how much of what tourists see is "really" NK. If a country is so controlled like NK, it feels like its not out of the question to completely stage big areas of the country so outsiders never see what its truly like. On the other hand, is it really possible to do such a thing?
I visited Cuba in the 90s and while they tried to control some parts, mainly touristy-Havana, it was pretty easy to get around, talk to locals, and get far away from Havana and see what life was really like. And it was ok, maybe not all the toys and comforts we in the West had but it wasn't the absolute worst. People got to be pretty honest about how they wished for a better life for their kids. I just wonder how much of a reality distortion field tourists see in NK.
There's a great set of photos/article on the UK dailymail (site banned on gaf I think) that shows a different set of pictures, not quite "everyone is dying!" but not the rosy scenes from the tourist areas either
I truly wonder though how much of what tourists see is "really" NK. If a country is so controlled like NK, it feels like its not out of the question to completely stage big areas of the country so outsiders never see what its truly like. On the other hand, is it really possible to do such a thing?
I visited Cuba in the 90s and while they tried to control some parts, mainly touristy-Havana, it was pretty easy to get around, talk to locals, and get far away from Havana and see what life was really like. And it was ok, maybe not all the toys and comforts we in the West had but it wasn't the absolute worst. People got to be pretty honest about how they wished for a better life for their kids. I just wonder how much of a reality distortion field tourists see in NK.
There's a great set of photos/article on the UK dailymail (site banned on gaf I think) that shows a different set of pictures, not quite "everyone is dying!" but not the rosy scenes from the tourist areas either
You are free to have your opinion ¯_(ツ
_/¯I am always very interested in reports how the life in north korea is because its a isolated country and to see how the landcape and the city looks is worth it enough for me.
OK, if this is really the case then its really problematic.
Still. If people cant read a post and put words into the mouth of someone, thats shit.
Also. When he likes the beer that doesnt make him a shill.
People read what he was posting, even directly quoted him. He ended up being a "shill" for other broad conclusions he reached in his guided, heavily scripted, tour. Talking about how surprised he is about the nice farmland, about the average daily life of a North Korean, and so on... it's all propaganda bullshit. He said he could spot what was fake and what wasn't, but really he was just full of shit. He was half fooled instead of completely fooled.
Funnily enough, Dennis Rodman was probably the best treated American that's ever visited there haha
But what insight do you really get? It's like saying that the best way to learn about a company is to simply watch their commercials. I don't think there is much info to get except misinformation which would be spread by people bragging about their "not as bad as you think" trip to NK.
To each their own but paying the money it costs to have NK prepare a sugary sweet pill for me to swallow doesn't seem very educational. Unless I want to brag about my taboo trip to NK because there are SOOOO many other countries I would love to experience before NK.
Yup. These girls OP took a photo of are almost certainly paid to sit in that exact spot and look cute.
OP, Take a look at this program and let us know if your vision of North Korea is correct. At 4:27 there is a video of the actual street life.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/secret-state-of-north-korea/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/secret-state-of-north-korea/
LyleLanley
Banned
It's standard fare because it's true.
He went to Pyongyang, the capitol of North Korea. You don't get to live there unless you are culturally elite. The entire city is a government charade. Dude wasn't going to Chongjin.
VendettaRed07
Member
oh ffs...
That's why I said:
Everyone who visits gets the impression something is very off and stuff does seep through the cracks but for the most part it's all tightly controlled. I'm not an expert, no one here is. But it's very obvious you were deliberately shown nothing meant to paint the country in a negative lights.
Btw, I'm not shitting on you for taking the trip. I just didn't like your assessment that it's sort of not that bad or something when you were in no position to make that judgment. By North Korea experts' accounts, it is very much horrible.
We learn how NK is even worse a regime for the lies they try to sell us, we learn about their twisted take on history. That counts as insight to me, all of which I find very interesting.
I wouldn't even be surprised if the "normal" people the op met on the subway were actors. it's basically the truman show for visitors.
still, really fascinating op.
Then he is still no shill. Saying this now sounds ruder as I intend it, but then he is just not smart enough to look through the propaganda. No reason to give him so much shit, this can be explained in a not so rude way. That said, like before pointed out, if its really the same post from two years ago, then its a different case.
It is actually! Unless the OP committed some human rights violations on this trip.
You can have all the opinions about North Korea but don't be disrespectful about it. His visit is not worth this level of disgusting attempts to shame him while doing all this moral posturing.
It sounds similar to the stories my mom told me when she was visiting the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Beautiful locations to show off for the tourists, but in reality was nothing but a distorted mirage. Going off the planned locations you saw nothing but half-empty markeds with hardly any selection, people in endless lines just to get a plain vanilla ice cream and youth flocking around admiring their western clothing and jeans. Also the constant feeling of being surveyed, bugged and watched was ever-present . A surreal experience she never wanted to redo.
Personally I would feel really uncomfortable and ashamed sitting in a luxury restaurant stuffing my face in a country where half of the people is starving and have no basic human rights. I don't think I could have done it if given the option. Not even to experience the surrealness and be able to say "I was in North Korea!".
Personally I would feel really uncomfortable and ashamed sitting in a luxury restaurant stuffing my face in a country where half of the people is starving and have no basic human rights. I don't think I could have done it if given the option. Not even to experience the surrealness and be able to say "I was in North Korea!".
SuperBanana
Banned
We insulted the regime constantly. Poking fun at even Kim Jong Un. We were fine. He did an incredibly dumb thing that he was specifically told DO NOT do then did it and tried to cover it up. I can't fathom why he'd even do it.
Yes. They have entire areas staged for tourists along with indoctrinated citizenry who play along and they're very careful about where visitors can go, even giving them the illusion of being able to walk around "freely" here and there (into other controlled areas). This is well known.
VendettaRed07
Member
Not interesting in shaming OP, but I think it would also be wrong to let him believe some of the conclusions he came away with from his trip.
I'm sure it was a rush going to a place like this but still.
ColdLasagna
Member
I want to give Beer #5 a taste. Maybe grab a growler or two.
Pulled it up, some pics are identical:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=821098&highlight=north+korea
edit: maybe not? I can't quite tell. Some are just so extremely close, but slightly different. Like... same angle but maybe cropped a little differently? I got to go to work so no time to look over more closely. Maybe a result of how heavily scripted the tour is?
Lee Chaolan
Member
Thanks for the post, OP. Very interesting stuff to see and read.
What is true?
That everyone takes the same fucking tour? I think everyone that goes on these tours knows that (they tell you that before hand). You get to see the shit they NK gov wants you to see. You interact only with the people they want you to interact with. Doesn't make it less interesting.
What people really need to get out of their heads is that every single person that OP saw was an actor.
There's also people going about their daily business and although they'll probably forbidden to interact with the tour group / any of the foreigners, it's still good to show them that foreigners aren't anything like the bad propaganda that they get spoonfed since they were kids.
OP isn't denying it's a terrible situation and OP visiting it isn't gonna make the deathcamps go away or anything. But the little money that tourist bring into the country is not funding their next nuclear missle tests or the opening of another death camp.
Just as my visit to the US isn't funding the next predator drone that blows up an innocent family's home somewhere in Syria or Afghanistan.
And sure everyone can think of it what they want and even think it's morally deplorable but there's no need to be so disrespectful and shame him for going.
You don't have to give a regime like this any industry or allow them to spread their misinformation further through misinformed tourists to come up with the lesson that NK lies, manipulates history and is bad. If you really want to know you can read books and watch documentaries on this very topic and come out with more insight then giving them money, coming home with souvenirs and a story to tell everyone about the pretty countryside, girls and nice tour guides.
In all honesty I am convinced that more people want to take this trip not to learn or sympathize with the plight of NK citizens but to have a "cool" story about a taboo place they went to visit.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Lmao OP got scammed
Eh, they're not identical, but they're definitely of the same stuff. I dunno... almost as if that's what they encourage you to take pics of?
It's like "It's a Small World" at Disneyland. It's a boat ride on rails where everyone sees the same mechanical song and dance.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
Really nice from you to post your pictures and impressions. This is needed. Everybody seems to forget that a country is not his government and that most people in the world are great indeed.
I also get some vibes from my iranian trip, even if Iran is far less removed from the world, the propaganda poster and the praise of the leader in every street corner is almost the same.
I also get some vibes from my iranian trip, even if Iran is far less removed from the world, the propaganda poster and the praise of the leader in every street corner is almost the same.
Why would she want to go twice?
The Albatross
Member
I think it's still an interesting OP. Definitely the most interesting NeoGaf thread of the day. Although, OP, I will guarantee you that North Korea does not brew good beer. I'm glad they had some beer for you, but just playing the numbers here.
Haloid1177
Banned
Bruh your sister is a spy.
must be that tasty beer number 5!
SuperBanana
Banned
Almost like...we were in the same city! My god, it's all a conspiracy.
Just after them we met a group of soldiers who were out of uniform, napping, and playing cards. I'm guessing they didn't realize we were coming and quickly put their stuff back on. I wanted to take a photo but it could get them and me in trouble.
What conclusions do you think I'm wrong about? That's it's not as bad as it seems? What I meant was the Western media comes out with articles now and then claiming these certain things happen there and half of them aren't true. The Nukes are true, the missile testing is true, the camps are true. The western guides have access deeper than visitors and they have seem some of the darker shit and while he was open about some stuff there are times where he saw written articles that were absolute nonsense like "Everyone has to have a Kim Jong Un haircut." or "Jeans are banned" or articles about "Illegally smuggling out photos of NK!" and I know for a fact that all those photos would be fine to take and leave with. However, I never denied that it isn't bad and there aren't awful things happening there. You pity and feel sad for the people there. They try to make it nice but a lot of what you see is still bleak or unnerving.
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