-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
I took a trip to North Korea. (Pic heavy)
- Thread starter SuperBanana
- Start date
- Status
I think that's fine. I think even his impromptu trip was, maybe not scripted, bit certainly still was a huge fabrication. Why would they not think to have areas nearby that can be randomly stopped at that they have already prepped for a visit?
But insulting him and saying things like "Oh you support death camps! Way to go OP" is just disrespectful and shameful
Dude, I knew this was coming, but not this quick.
SuperBanana
Banned
Young Pioneer Tours. I'm surprised she's going back though. You really see 95% on a single trip unless he's going for an event.
Jmanunknown
Member
People do dumb stuff look at Ryan Lochte in Brazil at the Olympics as an example. I say its interesting that you took the the trip and gained some personal knowledge for yourself but really everything you told us everyone already knew. You sort of sound like Dennis Rodman after his first trip but at least you do not sound like him after his 6th or 7th trip their.
SuperBanana
Banned
You have to have full faith in the tour group. It's scary but I also visited Detroit on my USA trip right before Asia and that's far scarier!
I'm starting to see a pattern here. Anyone else?
It's very expected though right? It's not very ethical to do so just for pictures, especially when such pictures have already been taken. If anything, it's mostly because OP said "Why not?", we're merely expanding on the why not.
Defectors essentially sentence their families to concentration camps.
It's supposedly relatively easy to sneak out of North Korea into China, although the Chinese will send you back if caught.
North Korea is a country where travel by train is restricted. Basically all travel is restricted. If you are going somewhere, even from one city to the next, you better have papers giving you permission.
Now, North Korea is a country that honestly doesn't have a functional electrical grid, which begs the question of how such tight surveillance can be kept without modern technology. The answer comes from their culture and society that has been groomed for tight surveillance. Loyalty to family is considered taboo, loyalty to the state above all. This is reflected in the common living arrangements of people in North Korea - they live in elongated buildings that sort of resemble shotgun homes in the US. These buildings are separated into smaller units where people live. Each building in North Korea has a single designated person who is responsible for reporting "up the chain" dissent that goes on in the house. Family members are encouraged to turn in other family members for rewards. These designated people who report "up the chain" about dissent are expected to report dissent regularly, and will even go as far as making up dissent to avoid punishment. It's a culture of fear and suspicion.
You just have to ask for the fake Detroit tour, beer #12 is so damn good!
Maybe just you. I'd have to check my red string covered cork board though.
Fenderputty
Banned
He's directly giving money to people who commit the human rights violations. It is not being disrespectful to point out how disgusting that is.
It's sarcasm haha
SuperBanana
Banned
There's a lot more than what my post is. I showed some of it but you get a feel and understanding for the place. Just seeing and talking to the people. Getting the opinions of NK and the West from ACTUAL North Koreans.
Oh, I forgot. There were 3 strange things I did find out.
1: Al Jazeera is on the TV. Not a NK version either.
2. Coke is sold there and the most common soda.
3. Quite a bit of "Made in China" products are given to NK and sent back to make costs even lower so the chance of everyone having bought a north korean made item is actually pretty high.
How'd i miss this? Gaf never ceases to meet expectations.
To be devils advocate here, its not like Guantanamo is closed.
exmachina64
Banned
There are some things you're supposed to keep to yourself.
Today, you decided to be the devil's advocate for North Korea.
You might want to rethink your position.
MrChocolate
Member
You mean, like people who buy an iPhone?
The Albatross
Member
Curious about mentioning coca cola. I wonder if it's actual coke, smuggled in from China or elsewhere, or if it's a government made soda that is rebranded as coke. Coca Cola officially does not distribute to North Korea and Cuba.
cartographer
Member
It's almost as if that's intentional. That some things seem obvious, making you not care about the less obvious and making you believe in an illusion of freedom.
Agreed. Amazing post
Admiral Woofington
Member
So they took you to the sites tailor made for tourism and don't let you break off right?
I remember another photographer took pictures of the train station and how they faked it to look busy when in reality there was only one train that day. But they had folks walking around the whole day for foreigners.
I remember another photographer took pictures of the train station and how they faked it to look busy when in reality there was only one train that day. But they had folks walking around the whole day for foreigners.
Nexus Zero
Member
Actually people did have to smuggle photos out - they're not full of shit. My DSLR was search and I was told to remove specific photos. I had another SD hidden away with a bunch more that they definitely would have deleted.
Oh, I dont think that the US and North Korea are even close when its come to this, dont worry.
Its just the the argument that the OP is a bad human because he spend money on a government who commits violation of human rights while tax payers in the US finance waterbording, too.
Look, if you want to start a discussion over supporting human right's violations, that's fine. But pointing a finger at the OP and saying he is directly supporting it when you have absolutely no idea what he's supporting just so you can have moral high ground is pretty awful.
she's going for an event, but not using YPT this time. I think she might visit Razone, where the Chinese tourists go to shop.
"These are the real people", as in, "these are the relatively few people who live a fairly normal life while the rest of the country suffers, hidden from the views of tourists"
Diprosalic
Banned
Yeah weird, almost as weird that people who ride Space Mountain have similiar experiences.
Agent_ShortBus
Member
I'd love to go, was actually thinking of it recently. Unfortunately I'm scared I'd get detained if they did any kind of background checks because my older brother is a nuclear engineer in the military. I'd also hate to cause him problems because when he joined they did an extensive background check on our extended family before he joined. Cool pics, I'd love to see the mass games in person or take that biking through N.Korea tour they offer.
I know all of this, the point of my question is that the true nature of a country can usually be distilled down to a simple question: are its residents free to leave?
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
SuperBanana said:
A guy got sentenced to 15 years in prison and hard labor for stealing a poster and your very next sentence after that paragraph is, "overall, it's a weird country."
That is an interesting juxtaposition.
Ah, and just to make it clear and before someone says Kimi pays me, too: I would never ever go to NK, I think the government is one of the most evil on the planet, but I think we in the west should be a little bit careful what to say because there are placeswhere we do similar stuff. Even when its way smaller scale.
Yes, every cent OP spent is going straight to the "human right violations" jar. /s
It is disrespectful because the OP is sharing his experiences from his trip to NK. You can morally disagree with him taking a tour their but no need to shame him for it.
And on that topic:
Where do we draw the line?
Because ofcourse NK probably is on the number 1 spot for despicable regimes with horrible conditions for it's populace but there's a lot of other governments who do horrible shit to their populace (or part of their populace or people from another countries) If you need specific examples; China, a lot of other countries in Asia and countries in the Middle East (Heck the US isn't that picky when to uphold basic human rights either, I know I know, not on the same scale but still).
So please stop pointing the finger at OP and keep saying he supports human rights violations and he's directly funding it...
Like Exvicis is saying;
dark_chris
Member
I'm laughing too hard at this
Fenderputty
Banned
Besides the false equivalency, was there a point to this?
Another false equivilancy.
When you can explain how him taking a government guided tour isn't directly supporting the government of NK, you'll have a point.
Some probably went into the "Keep Kim Jong-Un fat an happy" jar as well as the "keep the fake guided tour going" jar.
SuperBanana
Banned
A man in America got a life sentence for stealing a slice of pizza. It's not the only country with overly harsh sentencing.
Smh at some of these answers here.
Good on you OP for going. You got some amazing impressions that are incredible unique and most people will never get to see.
I also believe that tourism is a great way to support also the local people (tour guides, small shops, etc.) and to make NKoreans see that foreigners are not these evil assholes just out to get them.
Does it also support the NK government financially? Yes. Is it a drop in a bucket. Yes. For me, the good this does outweighs the bad.
This is also a similar approach the US is taking with Iran. Instead of more and more sanctions, that in the end hurt the regular people the most, letting the country open up and helping the people is the best way to get them turning against their tyrannical government in the desire for more freedom.
Good on you OP for going. You got some amazing impressions that are incredible unique and most people will never get to see.
I also believe that tourism is a great way to support also the local people (tour guides, small shops, etc.) and to make NKoreans see that foreigners are not these evil assholes just out to get them.
Does it also support the NK government financially? Yes. Is it a drop in a bucket. Yes. For me, the good this does outweighs the bad.
This is also a similar approach the US is taking with Iran. Instead of more and more sanctions, that in the end hurt the regular people the most, letting the country open up and helping the people is the best way to get them turning against their tyrannical government in the desire for more freedom.
You can't be serious? That guy was a 4x convicted felon prior to that. It's not the same thing.
This American kid was a one time thing.
You gave money supporting people committing crimes against humanity.
Kill Your Masters
Member
Ah yes, Death camps that would impress the fuck out of Hitler are just overly harsh.
The Omega Man
Member
Hmm you might be onto something here, thank you for enlightening us, reading your posts make it very clear that when comparing NK to other countries, NK is not really that bad or different.
You poor thing
Can't find any faults with this logic. Wow. /s obviously
That's not how this works; When you can explain how you know that his money directly went to paying for a death camp, then you can act like you're acting right now.
- Status