IGN: Nathan Drake will use identical model in cutscene and gameplay.

Completely unrelated to the topic but I think you'll find, "irregardless", is very much so a word. It's quite funny that you thought it wasn't a word :D
How's my spelling?
When a dictionary lists a word as nonstandard that just means the dictionary acknowledges that a word is used while simultaneously describing that it is not a proper word.

(MW: nonstandard means "not accepted or used by most of the educated speakers and writers of a language")

But yeah, way off-topic. I just thought it was amusing to read that word over and over again.
 
It's not a joke though.

Here is what people expected during gameplay:

hUXb3Q.png


hhW6EJ.png

Some people want perfect lighting, top level shaders, DoF and amazing custom animation in every second of a game; that I can believe. Doesn't mean it's not unrealistic and dumb.


The images below are taken from 10 continuous seconds of footage where Drake walks through the dense part of the foliage. Lighting is different in all of them and some look better than others. Video games!
 
Are you saying the ONLY differences between those 2 images is day/night and wet/dry? As other posters have said, "you've got to be joking?"

Look at the right shoulder and how well it's formed compared to the gameplay footage. Look at his pants/butt too. Or his shirt and the siluoette edges. Or the trees and how they look more polygonal than the tree in the E3 footage. The back of his head in the E3 seems more full of hair. His neck looks thicker than the gameplay footage as well. Those are just eyeballing physical differences. We haven't even gotten to the indirect lighting, shaders, or FX yet.

Both images are so low quality that I can't really tell. That was my point.
 
I moved the camera around to see Marius' face. It looks almost like the cutscene face in actual gameplay. Nothing is blurred or out-of-focus. I don't see this kind of detail in gameplay w[/B].

Do you have the game and are able to spin the camera around and take a clean uncompressed screenshot and look at what kind of detail there is in the gameplay model of Nathan Drake in Uncharted 4? Or are you basing this purely on the compressed YouTube video, or the compressed Twitch stream, or the compressed Gamersyde video?

Your argument is writing checks that the provided media can't cash.
 
People in here are getting too hung up on the entire image to look at the individual details.

Here's the shots cropped to Drake himself. Aside from the fact that the video and image quality are FAR too bad to get any accurate comparisons, there's nothing I see here that looks worse. Drake's hair is wet in the night image so it's shiny.

id6BbOyLd2B9E.png


And a foliage comparison:

ibfdjGUvim6cTO.png
 
Just watched the demo in the best quality it's available and man, it looks good as hell! Now that I could see the textures better they looked a lot more impressive than in the initial stream. Also, the lighting looked even better.

Best of all I didn't know the game had any kind of official release estimate (or was there that 2015 stamp at the end at the conference cos for some reason I don't remember seeing it?) and it turns out they're aiming for 2015. Obviously delays could happen and you gotta be prepared for that but this has got to be a pretty big deal for Sony to get out for the holiday season so I'd think they might be able to make it.

Definitely my most anticipated game at the moment.
 
For people saying Time of Day does not make a huge difference. I suggest you look up

"Time of Day Art Crysis"

on google.

There were tons of threads dedicated to simply adjusting the ToD in game to get results that looked nearly photoreal.

40913168.gif





Only difference between those and vanilla is the Time of Day settings.

Time of day and lighting conditions is HUGE. Add in wetness shaders and detail from cuts, dirt, etc, and the gap widens.


Until we see the E3 trailer rendered in game, it will be an unfair comparison.


And since ND has said

1. They are using the cutscene model in game.

and

2. They are only doing realtime cutscenes in the game.

then this should be easy to dissect. Especially if the E3 trailer makes it into the game, which, if U2-3 are anything to go by, it will.
 
I think now is about the right time to take Druckmann's advice and stop looking at neogaf. This thread is ridiculous. lol.

What...?

Couple of things.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you a part of Naughty Dog/Sony? If not, why are you going to bat for them like it's personal? They don't care about you.

Also, you are a part of NeoGAF. That's right. You don't just get to conveniently distance yourself when the topic of discussion is disagreeable.

(MW: nonstandard means "not accepted or used by most of the educated speakers and writers of a language")

Not accepted by whom? I didn't realize there was some place that could gather a majority consensus of "educated speakers and writers of a language." I guarantee you that plenty of educated speakers and writers use it. I don't, but I also don't use a lot of words and phrases. Being pedantic gets you nowhere... unless you're correcting someone who used "could care less."
 
That's because they don't make every bullet a light source. That's another way of getting more performance out of the game. I looked at that demo and it's not happening for every bullet like Crysis 3. It's almost like they have a random number generator and picking a random bullet to be a light source out of several shots (at least for the enemies).

Might be just tracers.....
 
Not surprising. But, fanboys or not, I remember in the initial announcement thread, there were a shit load of people thinking the trailer was in-game footage running in realtime on a PS4, arguing their heads off.

People have incredibly unrealistic expectations for this game. Naughty Dog is just constantly fuelling their fire even after showing actual gameplay with lower quality graphics.

Once again people stop believing everything you see on the net. This is a joke pic!
 
Do you have the game and are able to spin the camera around and take a clean uncompressed screenshot and look at what kind of detail there is in the gameplay model of Nathan Drake in Uncharted 4? Or are you basing this purely on the compressed YouTube video, or the compressed Twitch stream, or the compressed Gamersyde video?

Your argument is writing checks that the provided media can't cash.

If you guys want to declare that the E3 footage is the same as the gameplay footage.. well, there's really nothing more to say..
 
If you guys want to declare that the E3 footage is the same as the gameplay footage.. well, there's really nothing more to say..

you cant prove its not.... so why are you trying to? do you really not grasp how lighting can drastically effect visuals? i mean youre not dumb... so why are you arguing at all?
 
If you guys want to declare that the E3 footage is the same as the gameplay footage.. well, there's really nothing more to say..

That's not what I'm saying at all. I've already stated that the E3 footage looks different (and it's difficult to ascertain whether that's because the graphics have been "downgraded" or just the difference between cutscene lighting vs. gameplay lighting). What I'm saying is you can't prove the gameplay model isn't as high fidelity as the cutscene model based on the media we have. You can't confidently make the claim in the post I quoted you from.
 
I guess we have a few camps here.

In group A, we have a bunch of crazies who are saying the quality in the gameplay footage is close, or even the same, as the E3 cut scene reveal. These are the true believers. The Uncharted militants who will put you on a list for saying anything negative about the series.

In group B, we have a bunch of more reasonable folks who are arguing that the cut scene parts of the PSX footage weren't downgraded from the previous showing, that the E3 cut scene reveal quality was actually running in real-time on a PS4 at 60 fps, and that we should expect the same quality and performance from the retail version *specifically* for the cut scenes.

In group C, we have a bunch of pessimists who say that everything absolutely looks worse on top of running at half of the frame rate as the E3 footage and that we should probably expect further downgradeton.

What I'm saying is you can't prove the gameplay model isn't as high fidelity as the cutscene model based on the media we have. You can't confidently make the claim in the post I quoted you from.

You absolutely can unless you're just talking about polygon count.
 
Wait, so no LOD tricks?

Like if there wasn't a cutscene, this would be the same as gameplay detail? If the spun the camera around, I'd see this?
ibmdQNOVPqjLSP.jpg


Damn. Hope to see more camera panning videos when the game comes out.
 
You absolutely can unless you're just talking about polygon count.

Then explain to me qualitatively and definitively how the cutscene character model from the E3 reveal is lower fidelity than the PSX gameplay/cutscene character model (or PSX character presentation), that couldn't just be difference due to better positioned and different light and in the realm of murkiness from video compression. And don't just say "It looks worse."
 
Isn't it just a case of the camera zooming in and detail increasing and then the camera zooming out and detail decreasing? I'm very confused by those who keep saying it's not the same as the E3 build when what I've seen looks exactly the same as the E3 build but with crisper clearer foliage. Surely, unless they increase the resolution as they pan out, the detail HAS to be lowered until zoomed in again. That tends to be how my eyes work too! I see a friend across the street but it's not until he gets close to me that I see he has a new spot on his nose ...

I guess my friend is only legitimate when he's standing next to me and a lie when across the road.
 
Wait, so no LOD tricks?

Like if there wasn't a cutscene, this would be the same as gameplay detail? If the spun the camera around, I'd see this?
ibmdQNOVPqjLSP.jpg


Damn. Hope to see more camera panning videos when the game comes out.

I'm sure they'll give us photo mode so we can look at dat glorious chest hair.
 
Then explain to me qualitatively and definitively how the cutscene character model from the E3 reveal is lower fidelity than the PSX gameplay/cutscene character model (or PSX character presentation), that couldn't just be difference due to better positioned and different light and in the realm of murkiness from video compression. And don't just say "It looks worse."

You've watched this video in 1080p, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1Rx-Bbht5E

Like, watched with your eyes, right? The whole thing, with the close-up and him climbing out of the pool of water?

Everything in there is of a higher quality and I really don't know how you or anyone can't see it, but I guess we can start with one thing: the hair. No one can deny that it looks far less complex and 'real' in the PSX footage.

This is getting to be kind of dumb, really. I feel like we're just going in circles.
 
Lighting is an important part of rendering.. but it doesn't dictate the look of the film. The Shaders and Textures do.

Our texture artists will make a texture that's 4k or more and create 1 shader for the skin.. it will stay that way whether the camera is close up or far away. We dont' make special cases for the set because we don't know at what context the character will be placed. If we have instances of characters and they are all far away.. yes, we will modify the shader for that particular shot and turn off the SSS to save rendering time.

This isn't the case for this demo. The hero character is always in view and controlled by the gamer. He should absolutely have his best shaders and max presentation on.

are you serious? the lighting conditions determine how the shading works (ratio ambient to direct light, relative lighting angle)

see TLoU ingame models in different lighting conditions below:

overcast

jzcpdL.jpg


direct moon light

joelnightkbxbv.jpg


near direct flash light

14819993633_b1ccab3db2_h.jpg


vs.

direct moon light

tesshidi8.png


the moon shots are mine. i tried to immitate crytecs hero lighting there. the others are grabbed from the screenshot thread, so please excuse the non ideal comparable viewing angles. but i think one can get the point.

hence we proceeded to full PBS now, this is aplicable to every surface in games to come


*note: dont read, u4 does look as good as the reveal.
 
so ToD and if there is water/rain or not involvet always has the same requirements?

a scene during the day and during dry conditions will take es much processing power as the same scene set in a rainy night?

and it doesn't matter either, if it is a cloudy day, or a star-bright night during a full moon?
 
Wait, so no LOD tricks?

Like if there wasn't a cutscene, this would be the same as gameplay detail? If the spun the camera around, I'd see this?
ibmdQNOVPqjLSP.jpg


Damn. Hope to see more camera panning videos when the game comes out.
Wow, this looks pretty neat. Now imagine that in crystal clear Full HD on your console without compression artefacts,
 
I noticed that the video file looks quite a lot better on my tv than on my pc monitor. My tv seems to auto adjust the color of the video so that it looks MUCH better.

Here is another pic of Drake from the PSX demo.
(for anyone intereted in the difference between the direct video file and hosting sites you can check this album: http://minus.com/mPStJbBuzopBe)

Nathan taken from the direct feed video file from my tv:
iwQczogxinnEz.png


If you compare this image with any image from a video hosting site you will see quite the difference in quality and detail.

Also note that this is the model used right before the demo transitioned into gameplay.
 
I noticed that the video file looks quite a lot better on my tv than on my pc monitor. My tv seems to auto adjust the color of the video so that it looks MUCH better.

Here is another pic of Drake from the PSX demo.
(for anyone intereted in the difference between the direct video file and hosting sites you can check this album: http://minus.com/mPStJbBuzopBe)

Nathan taken from the direct feed video file from my tv:
ijxoG48L6OIRE.png


If you compare this image with any image from a video hosting site you will see quite the difference in quality and detail.

Also note that this is the model used right before the demo transitioned into gameplay.

I know it's probably just the lighting. But it seems like they scaled down the depth levels on whatever shader is on his face.
 
I noticed that the video file looks quite a lot better on my tv than on my pc monitor. My tv seems to auto adjust the color of the video so that it looks MUCH better.

Here is another pic of Drake from the PSX demo.
(for anyone intereted in the difference between the direct video file and hosting sites you can check this album: http://minus.com/mPStJbBuzopBe)

Nathan taken from the direct feed video file from my tv:
ijxoG48L6OIRE.png


If you compare this image with any image from a video hosting site you will see quite the difference in quality and detail.

Also note that this is the model used right before the demo transitioned into gameplay.
He seems to have better hair in the E3 demo. More natural and softer. Maybe that's a small difference in dof though... But this looks amazing enough imo.
Lighting is extremely important.
 
I've given up all hope that the game will look at all like the E3 trailer at 60fps.

I hope I'm proved wrong though.
 
I've given up all hope that the game will look at all like the E3 trailer at 60fps.

I hope I'm proved wrong though.
Not sure what you expect. You'll never see a closeup from his face during gameplay. And the closeup in the demo surely didn't look so bad that you have to be all disappointed, right? There is some time to go.
Who knows how much time they had to throw this demo together anyway..
 
After seeing Joel's character model and Drake's in-game, it's amazing to see just how well Joel's model holds up, in terms of polygonal detail. The game changer is shader quality and it has definitely seen a notable jump. Incidentally, it's one thing that is jarringly notable going back rather than forward.
 
He seems to have better hair in the E3 demo. More natural and softer. Maybe that's a small difference in dof though... But this looks amazing enough imo.
Lighting is extremely important.

I think the thing with the hair compared to the E3 teaser is the wetness because it is drenched.

But yeah lighting is really important. And the teaser has some extremely ridiculous lighting.

I also think when looking at the TLOU:R photo mode that during gameplay when adjusted properly you can produce amazing looking photos very close to the E3 teaser.
 
are you serious? the lighting conditions determine how the shading works (ratio ambient to direct light, relative lighting angle)

see TLoU ingame models in different lighting conditions below:

overcast

direct moon light

near direct flash light

vs.

direct moon light

the moon shots are mine. i tried to immitate crytecs hero lighting there. the others are grabbed from the screenshot thread, so please excuse the non ideal comparable viewing angles. but i think one can get the point.

hence we proceeded to full PBS now, this is aplicable to every surface in games to come


*note: dont read, u4 does look as good as the reveal.

Honestly, this post is more supportive of what he said than anything.

One set of shaders applied universally. There isn't any loss of detail depending on the lighting situation. Each shot has different lighting conditions, but looks equally amazing.
 
People in here are getting too hung up on the entire image to look at the individual details.

Here's the shots cropped to Drake himself. Aside from the fact that the video and image quality are FAR too bad to get any accurate comparisons, there's nothing I see here that looks worse. Drake's hair is wet in the night image so it's shiny.

id6BbOyLd2B9E.png


And a foliage comparison:

ibfdjGUvim6cTO.png

Put a youtube blur filter on the right side for added effect.

This is also negating seeing it in motion, as anyone can pick out a bad frame here or there. Just as a tiny animated gif can make the worst looking game respectable.

I took the lest compressed version for the PSX demo and threw it on my HTPC that played it on a 70" calibrated display. It looked pretty damn good to me beside some flat lighting in the jungle.

In the end I've never been disappointed with ND from a technical perspective. I don't see a reason to start now and will wait till one arises in a finished game before doing so. If there's two things I learned last gen, it was never to underestimate Naughty Dog or Evolution Studios. So far this gen its BAU.
 
see TLoU ingame models in different lighting conditions below:
It's funny you bring up Last of Us because many people claimed the Last Of Us announcement trailer was running in real time. We now know it was a prerendered render using the engine. The scene never appeared in the game. Naughty Dog used the same language in the Uncharted 3 e3 teaser as the Last Of Us reveal trailer. Why would it suddenly mean something different?

tybZ8LX.png


The models in realtime and the cinematics in Last Of Us Remastered were exactly the same, the lighting was not. The cinemas had to be rendered to a file and played back because the lighting was too complex to compute in realtime even for the Ps4.

The realtime models in Last Of Us Remastered are amazing (especially when viewed at distance), but sport lower quality shadow maps and lower quality shaders than the cinemas. For instance, look at the low-res step shadow on Ellie's neck.

t9gYlpL.png


Here is Ellie in real time on the Ps4 and a "capture" directly from a Ps3. The shaders and lighting is so much higher quality on the PS3 capture. Just look at the way the light envelops the model on the right.

tXqXYXS.png


This is very apparent while looking at the hair and the way that light enters through the skin illuminating it. Light doesn't appear to be going through the hair on the the realtime pic. In the cinema, look at the way that light enters through the ears, revealing the fleshy part of the ear.

The 60 fps E3 Uncharted teaser never dropped a frame while supporting superior lighting, unbelievable anti-aliasing, ridiculously high resolution shadow maps, and image quality. The gameplay footage dropped to 29 fps during a realtime cutscene.

That said, none of this maters. The game is going to look great. Perhaps Naughty Dog has a way of scaling the lighting depending on the scene.
 
Everyone who thinks this game won't look just like the E3 teaser in the same conditions apart from that perfect subpixel antialiasing (which just ain't happening anywhere this gen) is going to be served some fine crow around this time next year.
 
Why is it that suddenly, the footage of Uncharted 4 that came out during E3 2014 is now most definitely just a cutscene, pre-rendered footage, etc ...

... when it was being hailed for months as actual in-game footage?

Help me understand.

It was real-time footage; as in, processed by a PS4, and not some pre-recorded in-engine sequence. I think the cinematics will match it once the game is done. The in-game stuff could not reach those heights, because there are a lot of variables (AI, collisions, bigger areas...) That will drain resources from the system.
 
Everyone who thinks this game won't look just like the E3 teaser in the same conditions apart from that perfect subpixel antialiasing (which just ain't happening anywhere this gen) is going to be served some fine crow around this time next year.

Well they said that the area in that E3 trailer is in game (an actual level), I assume we will actually see the same scene.
 
It's funny you bring up Last of Us because many people claimed the Last Of Us announcement trailer was running in real time. We now know it was a prerendered render using the engine.


.....,

That said, none of this maters. The game is going to look great. Perhaps Naughty Dog has a way of scaling the lighting depending on the scene.


Your post forgets or ignores several things.


1. ND themselves clarified themselves that the E3 trailer was 60 FPS running on a single PS4.

2. ND also said they are no longer doing the 7 PS3/4 rendering. All cutscenes in UC4 will be rendered in realtime, allowing for seamless cutscene>gameplay>cutscene transitions.

3. ND also have said the e3 trailer/scene is from level in the game, not just made for E3.

4. The shadow pic you showed was from the 60fps option. Setting it to 30fps increased shadow fidelity. (Would be interested in seeing this option in UC4)

We have no reason to believe aside from AA that the final game won't look identical to the E3 trailer.
 
Everyone who thinks this game won't look just like the E3 teaser in the same conditions apart from that perfect subpixel antialiasing (which just ain't happening anywhere this gen) is going to be served some fine crow around this time next year.
Yep, I agree. The final product will definitely blow minds as much as UC2 did back then. The real time cutscene at the end of the PSX demo already looks as good as the E3 teaser. Crows gonna be served for sure. I just hope crows don't go extinct because of NeoGaf. XD
 
When are we going to get some decent hair? CG movies had done it for years now, it can be done.

CG movies have 100s of workstation that calculate a frame.
Also hair isn't really worth it, are you playing a lot of hair-cutting sims or what?
It mostly fills like 2% of the screen.
 
When are we going to get some decent hair? CG movies had done it for years now, it can be done.

Like the posters above me said, movies don't have to do it realtime.

Besides, TressFX sucks. It cut my framerate in TR nearly in half, and still manages to look faker than the "solid mass plus some strands with physics" ND approach had with Ellie's hair.
 
It's not a joke though.

Here is what people expected during gameplay:
The main reason that the top picture looks better than the similarly color corrected version of the bottom one, is that there's selective DOF applied to the E3 one. If someone expected DOF applied over the scene during gameplay, then they don't know how games work when you need to play them. Truth of the matter is, the scene in E3 trailer was presented as cutscene, and there was no reason that anyone would expect (if their expectations were genuine) anything but cutscenes in the game to look like that - which they do, IMO.
 
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