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[AyaisMUsikWhore]

Lol yeah some try to make it seem like this defense force is actually bigger than it really is

And this is completely wrong because many opinions shared in this thread has been about this decision and why most don't agree, while disagreeing with those who do agree with the decision visa versa.

Which always seems suspect as majority of the people who are ok with it, are always hand in hand with Nintendo's other backwards decisions that make it hard to support them; because of it.

Now you have people saying, immaturity is wanting options. I mean, it really gets no better than that.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

Lol yeah some try to make it seem like this defense force is actually bigger than it really is

It's usually the same handful of posters who jump through hoops to defend their favorite company's backwards decisions or deflect from the topic at hand by whining about Nintendo fan persecution.

 

[Amir0x]

Actually, now that I think about it: Why did Oddduck create this thread (and then ran away never to reply to it)?


Why are we even arguing over something that we argued about 2 months ago about?


We shouldn't have threads about people's opinions if we already have a thread about these exact thoughts.

because it's about a new article written on IGN--oh my god I can't believe I'm justifying this nonsense with a response what's wrong with me

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Here are a couple of scenarios I can think of that have already been posted:

-Harrassment
-Whatever effect (negligeable or not) voice chat has on how smooth the experience is.
-As a design feature, they felt it unnecessary due to the amount of information on the screen and philosophy of game design they used.

etc.

The point is in creative work, you usually have a goal to bring entertainment to people. They probably thought the addition of voice chat, with whatever their design philosophy and experience was, wasn't sufficient enough to include it. The question was when it is acceptable to not include it, but I don't believe we can deem it acceptable due to our relationship with nintendo as consumers. Now you can complain about it and not buy it, but at the end of the day Nintendo is making the game so they get to decide what works or doesn't and whatever repercussions or fallout there is rests on them.

1) That's why every other video game system has the option to mute people. This is not an excuse to not put an option into a game in 2015.

2) If Nintendo can't make an online shooter in 2015 that won't have connection problems because of voice chat, then they are pathetic. There are video game systems seven years older that have this feature without hindering online connection.

3) Again, if this is the case, it only furthers my point that Nintendo is behind the times.

As for your last paragraph, of course we can deem it acceptable, they're making the game FOR us. The consumer's opinion should be a factor in designing your video game, because ultimately, they're the ones who decide if the game is worth playing or not, not the developers. Yes, the fallout will rest on them, just like the fallout has rested on them with every misstep Nintendo has made with the Wii U, people are complaining because they WANT to like the Wii U and these games, but are annoyed with the constant omissions and dumb decisions Nintendo makes when it comes to online video games.

 

[BGBW]

Are we now blaming immigrants for lack of voice chat in Splatoon?

 

[NotLiquid]

Yes but the squad using third party communication will always exceed competitive groups not using voice chat (as the game was originally meant to be played).

This is why the whole "no chat" feature is a big issue in the first place.

And is also why I've said a bunch of times that I'd expect it to be included in the lobbies that will be added in the matchmaking update because there wouldn't be much of a legitimate reason to exclude it there.

But beyond that, chances are if you play with friends against other friends, you're going to assume that they have far more co-ordination to begin with. If you just jump into a regular match with a friend, voice chat won't actually "help" much between friends because the teams get shuffled after every round. That doesn't happen in the lobbies that are in the matchmaking update, you stay in the same friend team.

 

[MouldyK]

because it's about a new article written on IGN--oh my god I can't believe I'm justifying this nonsense with a response what's wrong with me

IGN did a video called: "Why Titanfall 2 Has a Harder Road than the Original".

Want me to watch it and report what they say?

 

[Camwi]

Some people on this site have defended:

- The lack of online in Mario Party 10 because "Mario Party is meant to be played locally"
- The artificial supply constraints of sought after Amiibo because "they underestimated demand"
- The fact that Amiibo functionality has basically turned into on-disc DLC because "it's minor content"
- Nintendo's Youtube creator's program because they're "protecting their IP"
- Nintendo butchering the picture of quality their legacy titles to "prevent epilepsy"
- Nintendo refusing to add GBA games to the 3DS eShop because they only offer "perfect emulation"
- Nintendo's decision not to bring the New 3DS to North America because "too many options"
- Nintendo's decision not to include a charger with the New 3DS XL because "it helps reduce environmental waste"

And many more. You're surprised by the fact that they're doing the same for Splatoon, an unfinished game that doesn't have voice chat in 2015? I consider myself to be a big Nintendo fan, but the constant excuses are embarrassing.



And now we have pedophilia accusations. Wonderful.

You can add to that list "Nintendo doesn't give Mario platformers online multiplayer because those games require too much precision and online is impossible", even though that completely ignores what Nintendo has said themselves (that it is very possible, they just chose not to do it because whatever).

 

[Overside]

You said it: "infantry". Soldiers sure talk in open war fields since enemy can't hear them. But think about a warzone similiar to an arena. If someone hears the soldier, he's dead for sure.
Also, military isn't the only setting a shooter can have. Think about cowboys or uniques like Splatoon.
That's why voice chat is good for war simulators and bad for arena shooters

Eh...

Radios are used to communicate the position and number of enemy units from distances far too far to be heard.

This is usually done with mechanized infantry, utilizing long range equipment like an lras, this info is then used to update the blue force tracker, a sort of real time map we had to take our eyes out of the scopes to look at.

and then calling for indirect if its available, or maybe armor.

For clearing buildings, once it starts, they know you are there, there is no point in being quiet after that, speed and aggression is what you need. Communication needs to be loud so everyone can hear, and as short as possible.

 

[pizzacat]

Thanks for being my poop reading material guys. What a hell of a ride its been since page 1 lol

 

[Amir0x]

IGN did a video called: "Why Titanfall 2 Has a Harder Road than the Original".

Want me to watch it and report what they say?

Um, whether I'm individually interested in the topic or not is besides the point. If it is a new video that conveys information that can lead to a discussion on GAF, it's fair game. You literally questioned the dudes motive for making this topic, despite it clearly being a brand new IGN article that is discussing the problems involved and has spawned a huge topic of people interested in discussing it.

Stop thread shitting.

 

[Oddduck]

Actually, now that I think about it: Why did Oddduck create this thread (and then ran away never to reply to it)?

I'm not a fan of Splatoon missing out on a feature like voice chat. I've made that clear in another Splatoon thread.

My two cents:

It's strange that Nintendo can create "Wii Speak" for Animal Crossing where four people can chat in-game, but they won't allow voice chat for Splatoon.

I want to believe that Animal Crossing is targeted at children like Splatoon.

 

[Jarmel]

Yes, but it is still common to refer to newspapers as one entity and see the opinion as a whole. I just need to mention the name Daily Mail and a certain image is conjured up. Usually because you have a company culture that's going to attract like minded individuals. We all see IGN and IGNorant™, Kotaku as slow and Polygon as... well I don't think anyone looks at them anymore. It's not unfair to lump all their staff under one umbrella. Heck people often treat all of GAF like a hivemind.

Yes certain newspapers are attached with certain editorial standards. The New York Post is obviously not held to the same standard as the NYT. That said, comparing different reviews or editorials by different people isn't exactly fair or good. You don't see people using Ebert's reviews to dismiss Roeper or disparage recent articles/reviews by the Chicago Sun Times. Individual people notice and highlight different things, everybody has something that grinds their gears that another might not care about.

There are good writers at Kotaku for example and I hold each of them in varying levels of esteem. I think it's more effective to track the individual writers rather than the company/paper itself.

 

[Amir0x]

I'm not a fan of Splatoon missing out on a feature like voice chat. I've made that clear in another Splatoon thread.

My two cents:

It's strange that Nintendo can create "Wii Speak" for Animal Crossing where four people can chat in-game, but they won't allow voice chat for Splatoon.

OH MY GOD YOU COMMENTED YOUR MOTIVES MUST BE PURE NOW

 

[cheesekao]

IGN did a video called: "Why Titanfall 2 Has a Harder Road than the Original".

Want me to watch it and report what they say?

You can as it's no different than people posting digital foundry threads.

 

[TheChocoboCadet]

When I was a kid (oh gawd I'm getting old), I would go up to my friend's house and we'd throw a football around. Not because throwing a football back and forth is particularly exciting, but rather it was an avenue for conversation. We'd talk about our day, any thoughts, usually a comment or two about how bad that last throw was. It was relaxing.

Ten years later, my friend and I live in two different locations. That happens a lot when you get old. But when we're both home from work, we often start up a game of CoD. Not because CoD is particularly exciting, but rather it was an avenue for conversation. We'd talk about our day, any thoughts, usually a comment or two about how much we suck at the game. It was relaxing.

To me, that's what's so important about voice chat. Multiplayer is a time to unwind with my friend. I could never play a multiplayer game with him without voice chat not because we wouldn't be able to strategize, but because there wouldn't be any bonding or socialization. I might be a small minority of the market though. But I think there's many people out there who use multiplayer for that same reason.

And yeah, we could Skype, but then the game audio and chat audio is separate, That's too much for my ears to handle. It breaks the immersion. But I might just be a bit whiny like that.

That's my 2 cents (hides in corner).

 

[Louis Cyphre]

1) That's why every other video game system has the option to mute people. This is not an excuse to not put an option into a game in 2015.

2) If Nintendo can't make an online shooter in 2015 that won't have connection problems because of voice chat, then they are pathetic. There are video game systems seven years older that have this feature without hindering online connection.

3) Again, if this is the case, it only furthers my point that Nintendo is behind the times.

As for your last paragraph, of course we can deem it acceptable, they're making the game FOR us. The consumer's opinion should be a factor in designing your video game, because ultimately, they're the ones who decide if the game is worth playing or not, not the developers. Yes, the fallout will rest on them, just like the fallout has rested on them with every misstep Nintendo has made with the Wii U, people are complaining because they WANT to like the Wii U and these games, but are annoyed with the constant omissions and dumb decisions Nintendo makes when it comes to online video games.

Great post. I am sure Splatoon will be a ton of fun even without voice chat, the question is why exclude it in the first place? There is no logical reason for it other than laziness and/or how out of touch Nintendo is.

 

[Diffense]

Even though it is not specifically for this type of game, trying to dredge up other companies mistakes that were defended would've instead, sounded like a desperate attempt to defend Nintendo, which would be the opposite of what Gonzo has done in this topic.

Not to mention it's other people who use Nintendo fans more often than Gonzo has. Unfortunately for you, "Nintendo fans" is a very direct. "Some People" is a vague term in comparison.

Gonzo made a sagacious statement that I endorse:
[Varied Group] is not a person.

Let's leave it at that.

 

[Zombie James]

IGN did a video called: "Why Titanfall 2 Has a Harder Road than the Original".

Want me to watch it and report what they say?

Go ahead?

 

[KratosEnergyDrink]

I would not do any harm to have voice chat in Splatoon. But after playing it yesterday it is obvious that Splatoon is not a game that would benefit from voice chat. Seems the developer thought the same.

 

[nubbe]

stupid pedophiles ruin to fun for everyone

 

[NeonBlack]

Like its been said in other parts of this thread, voice chat is a basic essential for shooter in this day and age. Any other game would get shitted on for not having this feature. I remember destiny constantly getting ridiculed because you couldn't automatically talk to people in the world but Nintendo takesaway the option and its "how the game is intended to be".

Maybe, maybe not. We'll see when party matchmaking gets patched.

The game doesn't have party matchmaking day one?

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

Great post. I am sure Splatoon will be a ton of fun even without voice chat, the question is why exclude it in the first place? There is no logical reason for it other than laziness and/or how out of touch Nintendo is.

It seems more like the Director or whatever got too in touch and got scared to include it to protect other people.

Which quite frankly, is yet another decision to kneecap Splatoon from succeeding.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Online voice chat is a mistake. It is nothing but trash.

 

[MouldyK]

Um, whether I'm individually interested in the topic or not is besides the point. If it is a new video that conveys information that can lead to a discussion on GAF, it's fair game. You literally questioned the dudes motive for making this topic, despite it clearly being a brand new IGN article that is discussing the problems involved and has spawned a huge topic of people interested in discussing it.

Stop thread shitting.

Trust me, the discussion has gone off the rails enough as it is.

It's strange that Nintendo can create "Wii Speak" for Animal Crossing where four people can chat in-game, but they won't allow voice chat for Splatoon.

I want to believe that Animal Crossing is targeted at children like Splatoon.

It's also strange that New Leaf had no voice chat.

But thank you for your two-cents on the matter.

 

[kamineko]

It's a remarkable (that is, worthy of remark) decision to exclude voice chat in 2015. Even if you're Nintendo. People are going to make remarks about remarkable things.

If Nintendo embraces corporate values that make voice chat (as we know it) a challenge, well, their decades of experience, one would hope, would prepare them for such a challenge. They are, above all else, innovators, after all. Entering a new space while forgoing universally expected features is not an innovation.

Other games in this space don't mention "voice chat support" as an option on the box because, hey man, who the hell doesn't support voice chat?

Who remembers those "cartridges vs discs" debates? I was cartridge defense force all the way, even while all my favorite 3rd-party devs were jumping ship. Seems hilarious looking back. The most impressive thing to come out of that was cramming Resident Evil 2 on a cart, and that credit goes to Capcom, not N. I mention this because Nintendo, and I love them dearly, is hardly a stranger to the wrong side of history. It's possible to love N and see them clearly at the same time--even if I didn't back then.

If the game is amazing (as it may well be), it will be in spite of such choices, not as a result of same.

I mean, hell, I don't use inverted X axis controls. I guess I could argue against their inclusion in games because "I don't use them." I could even go so far as to call disagreement about such a thing "complaining" or "whining" as opposed to discussion, but such positions would be foolish, wouldn't they?

Unless, of course, we were discussing a 1st-party Nintendo game. Then all bets are off.

I'm probably going to buy it myself. But come on.

 

[BGBW]

I'm not a fan of Splatoon missing out on a feature like voice chat. I've made that clear in another Splatoon thread.

My two cents:

It's strange that Nintendo can create "Wii Speak" for Animal Crossing where four people can chat in-game, but they won't allow voice chat for Splatoon.

I want to believe that Animal Crossing is targeted at children like Splatoon.

http://img.game.co.uk/ml/3/3/8/4/338424ps_500h.jpg

Pretty sure that required friendcodes to work ergo it wasn't chatting with strangers which seems to be the problem here.

On the other hand, New Leaf allowed completely free communication on the online island (via text not voice). You could even bypass Nintendo 'don't share friendcodes with strangers' policy.

 

[Entryhazard]

Whatever, I still have my Skype account

 

[The Boat]

You can add to that list "Nintendo doesn't give Mario platformers online multiplayer because those games require too much precision and online is impossible", even though that completely ignores what Nintendo has said themselves (that it is very possible, they just chose not to do it because whatever).

I'd like to see this quote.

 

[MrBadger]

Are we now blaming immigrants for lack of voice chat in Splatoon?

No voice chat fixation? blame immigration.

 

[Oddduck]

Pretty sure that required friendcodes to work ergo it wasn't chatting with strangers which seems to be the problem here.

During the Wii/DS days, it was still easy for kids to share friend codes over the internet on message boards and social networks.

We can't assume that kids don't use the internet to communicate with strangers. I've seen kids with their own Youtube channels, posting videos of themselves.

 

[Amir0x]

Trust me, the discussion has gone off the rails enough as it is.

So... you want to make the discussion you deem 'off the rails' much worse by thread shitting and questioning the thread starters motives?

Seems to make sense. :/

 

[Camwi]

I'd like to see this quote.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=704131

"While online play is certainly technically possible for us, it simply wasn’t the focus for us this time around," Miyamoto said.

 

[MouldyK]

So... you want to make the discussion you deem 'off the rails' much worse by thread shitting and questioning the thread starters motives?

Seems to make sense. :/

I never questioned their motives, or didn't mean to. :/

I did want their opinion on the matter though.

No voice chat fixation? blame immigration.

Now that's an Election-Winning Slogan!

 

[Reverend Funk]

The real reason that there is no voice chat is squids can't talk.

 

[Air]

1) That's why every other video game system has the option to mute people. This is not an excuse to not put an option into a game in 2015.

Yeah, that's fine, but I think the thing here is if your notion gels with nintendo's philosophy. You're used to something as a customer because you've gotten it a lot, Nintendo isn't meeting that expectation and you don't think it's justified, but they think it is because of their philosophy of design.

2) If Nintendo can't make an online shooter in 2015 that won't have connection problems because of voice chat, then they are pathetic. There are video game systems a decade older that have this feature without hindering online connection.

Well that's fine. I'm not defending their lack of voice chat or attacking it. I'm stating valid reasons why they wouldn't approach it. Maybe their netgame simply isn't up to par and they felt that if they included it, it would detract from the game. That would be a justified reason for leaving it out.

3) Again, if this is the case, it only furthers my point that Nintendo is behind the times.

Again, that's fine you think that way, but you're not designing the game. You're free to criticize or not buy it, but their games sell, so I don't know that it's true that they're behind the times. I think the admission or omission of a small feature like this wouldn't indicate whether they're trendy or not.

As for your last paragraph, of course we can deem it acceptable, they're making the game FOR us. The consumer's opinion should be a factor in designing your video game, because ultimately, they're the ones who decide if the game is worth playing or not, not the developers. Yes, the fallout will rest on them, just like the fallout has rested on them with every misstep Nintendo has made with the Wii U, people are complaining because they WANT to like the Wii U and these games, but are annoyed with the constant omissions and dumb decisions Nintendo makes when it comes to online video games.

This is assuming that you are the opinion that they are looking for. You can only deem it acceptable enough to buy it, not to make it. I'm not saying they don't do studies or tests of what people want in games like these, I'm saying its only up to them to weigh and consider it for development. Money talks, so if you don't like it, don't buy it until they add it in. As far as complaining and annoyance, I don't care that you do so (all of my posts have been very neutral). What bothers me in topics like these are when people think that there was no care or consideration when designing these things. As someone with a creative background, it's pretty offensive and I don't believe that spouting ones ignorance from an ivory tower (specifically about making design decisions, mind you) will make someone bend to your position.

When I don't like something, I don't buy it. I don't call the people who make it lazy and cheap. I can understand yours and others frustration in this thread, but I think there's such a high level of emotional attachment and pleading that conversations like this do more to put people off your side than to build an empathetic connection with them.

 

[jroc74]

There is no need to defend everything. Also is it now OK to call some Nintendo games kiddy or only in defense of their honor. Might as well remove the internet from your home if its such a boogyman.

Thank you.

I was gonna post something similar. Ppl defending this saying its to protect children.....and some wonder why, get upset when Nintendo gets the kiddie label slapped on them.

Cant it both ways.

Do we blame the creators of the internet for questionable stuff on it? Do we blame phone carriers for getting harassing calls, stalkers calling?

Like some have said....parental controls, turning off voice chat....options.

 

[EatinOlives]

Funny how the go-to defense is that "it's Nintendo! The game and system is for kids!!", when the same exact thing said before would be taken as an offense.

Even Nintendo itself wouldn't buy into this argument. Go watch Reggie's E3 presentation where he explains what the "U" in WiiU means. Go look at him promoting Arkham City on WiiU. Go look at the pre-release videos and commercials of 20-30 year old people playing their console. Go play Bayonetta 2, one of the LEAST child friendly games they could've made, funded and released by Nintendo themselves. Go to college dorms anywhere and see Mario Kart and Smash Bros played regularly. Go look at the statistics of eShop customers they themselves released.

It's not a "kids console". It wasn't created or marketed to be one. Hiding behind that reasoning is revisionist and completely disingenuous.

 

[Synless]

I am personally sick and tired of Nintendo's lack of any type of voice chat (group chat or otherwise) in any of their games.

 

[silver.tongue]

Some people on this site have defended:

- The lack of online in Mario Party 10 because "Mario Party is meant to be played locally"
- The artificial supply constraints of sought after Amiibo because "they underestimated demand"
- The fact that Amiibo functionality has basically turned into on-disc DLC because "it's minor content"
- Nintendo's Youtube creator's program because they're "protecting their IP"
- Nintendo butchering the picture of quality their legacy titles to "prevent epilepsy"
- Nintendo refusing to add GBA games to the 3DS eShop because they only offer "perfect emulation"
- Nintendo's decision not to bring the New 3DS to North America because "too many options"
- Nintendo's decision not to include a charger with the New 3DS XL because "it helps reduce environmental waste"

And many more. You're surprised by the fact that they're doing the same for Splatoon, an unfinished game that doesn't have voice chat in 2015? I consider myself to be a big Nintendo fan, but the constant excuses are embarrassing.



And now we have pedophilia accusations. Wonderful.

Well... When you say it like that... Lol

 

[Gucci Messiah]

Online voice chat is a mistake. It is nothing but trash.

Please, go on

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

I'm not sure why "protecting kids" is being parroted, given the best demographic view we have on Wii U owners is a very significent amount of people being 18 or older (granted it was eshop stuff but still).

 

[Nesther]

Online voice chat is a mistake. It is nothing but trash.

We've got a winner.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

The real reason that there is no voice chat is squids can't talk.

Truth.

 

[BGBW]

During the Wii/DS days, it was still easy for kids to share friend codes over the internet on message boards and social networks.

Yes, but Nintendo's official stance is not to do that. If someone shares a friendcode with a stranger Nintendo will not accept any responsibility for it. It's why they will ban you for doing it on Miiverse.

 

[TheXfactor]

Please, go on

its a joke

 

[Jarmel]

I'm not sure why "protecting kids" is being parroted, given the best demographic view we have on Wii U owners is a very significent amount of people being 18 or older (granted it was eshop stuff but still).

I think that has more to do with Nintendo's reputation in that Nintendo still wants to appear child friendly even when most of that market has left them in the dust.

 

[Higgins113]

But guys, what if someone uses a naughty word?

 

[Rebel Leader]

Yes, but Nintendo's official stance is not to do that. If someone shares a friendcode with a stranger Nintendo will not accept any responsibility for it. It's why they will ban you for doing it on Miiverse.

 

[Jarsonot]

Think what you want, but I don't really have people locally to play with. And I'm not going to play this with friends online if I can't talk to them. So I'm not going to play this game.

Y'all looking forward to silently playing with friends?? Seems insane to me, but good on ya if you can have fun that way.