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[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

So simple, what's the issue? Nothing. There's nothing. Every single excuse in this thread outside of the nonsensical arguments that don't even count (Monkey bars?) is literally pointless.

All Defenders in this thread outside the ones who backed out are all insane. No other explanation and fits the actual definition, not even an insult.

Or you could just accept that some people have opinions that differ from yours.

I personally am glad that there's no voice chat because that means I don't have to choose between playing better (turning voice chat on and trying to coordinate with teammates) and having a more enjoyable time (turning voice chat off and not having to risk meeting offensive players). Everybody's on a level playing field and that's great.

Like the Souls games (another game with an online component with no voice chat), Splatoon is going for an atmosphere that is very different than the typical voice chat that goes on in competitive shooters.

One of the goals with Splatoon is to attract new players who aren't already into these kinds of games. All it takes is one particularly bad online experience to sour some people on the whole game. Some person who is unfamiliar with typical online shooter communities, naively turns on voice chat and is assaulted by racial slurs, sexual harassment, or just insults for not playing like somebody else wanted them to and boom. Maybe they don't want to play this game anymore. And if they're a minor and a parent overhears the conversation, maybe they're not even allowed to play the game anymore.

So yes, there are reasons for people to want no voice chat option. You obviously disagree with them and feel those reasons are unimportant but they exist. And hey, if no voice chat means the whole thing runs a little smoother, that's a nice bonus.

Personally, I think the best thing to do would be to leave Splatoon alone but add party chat to the system as a whole. That way, groups of friends could still chat while playing games.

 

[phanphare]

Which is pointless if it's off by default and you have an option to turn it off so still doesn't excuse not having it.

Sorry, there's no excuse regardless of what your views are on your companies product. If you put a game out that's played competitively, or loved by more than die hards, then voice chat regardless of the negatives, will help your game have legs..

I'm not excusing anything from Splatoon haha

I was explaining why Smash has voice chat yet it's still off during a match. I thought that would be clear due to the post I was responding to, my bad.

 

[Vena]

I hate saying this but you're not very intelligent and you talking about my reading comprehension shows you're out of loop with reality.

Why? Simple, VC is off by default, what performance hit will there be? If people who want to use it turn it on and get a hit ok, sure, fine, it's there, and it will give Nintendo higher rep and will possibly gain more players.

The performance hit is, as was stated in my post... which you seem to fail to read, is that if any one has the option on, it will impact everyone. Why? Because if they start to lag from it, everyone will lag. Sakurai stated that they cut it from everywhere but lobbies for signal strength on ALL users because any user who gets impacted by loss of internet strength, will impact everyone. Doesn't matter if its on or off by default in this scenario because the moment any one person turns it on, it can hit everyone.

Honestly, rather than wasting time trying to insult me, try to read first.

I'm not even interested in Splatoon at this point, I said my peace about the system as a whole needing Party Chat.

 

[Gravy Boat]

Or you could just accept that some people have opinions that differ from yours.

I personally am glad that there's no voice chat because that means I don't have to choose between playing better (turning voice chat on and trying to coordinate with teammates) and having a more enjoyable time (turning voice chat off and not having to risk meeting offensive players). Everybody's on a level playing field and that's great.

Like the Souls games (another game with an online component with no voice chat), Splatoon is going for an atmosphere that is very different than the typical voice chat that goes on in competitive shooters.

One of the goals with Splatoon is to attract new players who aren't already into these kinds of games. All it takes is one particularly bad online experience to sour some people on the whole game. Some person who is unfamiliar with typical online shooter communities, naively turns on voice chat and is assaulted by racial slurs, sexual harassment, or just insults for not playing like somebody else wanted them to and boom. Maybe they don't want to play this game anymore. And if they're a minor and a parent overhears the conversation, maybe they're not even allowed to play the game anymore.

So yes, there are reasons for people to want no voice chat option. You obviously disagree with them and feel those reasons are unimportant but they exist. And hey, if no voice chat means the whole thing runs a little smoother, that's a nice bonus.

Personally, I think the best thing to do would be to leave Splatoon alone but add party chat to the system as a whole. That way, groups of friends could still chat while playing games.

None of what you've said would be affected by having voice chat if it were off by default.

The souls games also exist on platforms where party chat exists, so it's not a good comparison.

The lag argument is a terrible one too. This is a feature that's been in console games for over a decade. If you can't figure out how to include it without unplayable lag, then spend more time working on the game or ask for help.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Please tell me why this is hard to understand and maybe we can work from there.

Because I have some professional experience in designing and implementing chat systems for multiplayer games and nothing I have ever seen has zero overhead when in use, regardless of if someone has someone else muted or not, and everything I have ever seen took both dedicated implementation and testing time even using a well established open source protocol such as Jabber.

So honestly, the onus is on you to prove that it could be easily implemented for free, and have zero impact on performance at any level, not on me to prove it can't.

I'm not defending Nintendos position on this, even though I couldn't care less about it as a feature, because I know that some people do - but I AM telling you that NOTHING in game development is 'free', whether in time, cost, or performance overhead.

 

[The Horror the horror]

Only thing cheap and lazy about this game is the lack of local multiplayer options and the absence of Wii Mote functionality.

 

[Vena]

Only thing cheap and lazy about this game is the lack of local multiplayer options and the absence of Wii Mote functionality.

The former exists, its just not the exact same as the multiplayer mode.

 

[wildfire]

"Some devs" meaning one guy... who is wrong.

My post clearly states I picked my favorite out of all the responses.

LOL, hearthstone like other's have noted are not good examples.

I can get people being stubborn enough to say Journey and Hearthstone don't count but League of Legends? That is a game that can benefit from coordination even moreso than Dota/Hon because of eventual spammability from cool down reductions.

Arguing against League is dishonest.

 

[Crimson_Justice]

And you continue this road of insanity, if VC is OFF none of your post matter, only whenit's on would the issue happen. It's like a company putting in an optional Software Feature to make all colors only black and Blue in the game, which could cause your system to crash, but if it's off nothing happens.

NOTHING HAPPENS

Please tell me why this is hard to understand and maybe we can work from there.

I only want to address this part of your argument, because it is so clearly false.

If you have VC off but several of the other players in your current match have it on, THEY will have the assumed technical issues. This means you will be playing with/against laggy players. Sure, YOU won't personally be lagging, but others around you will be, and that won't be any fun. The match is still ruined, despite you having VC off.

Again, this is assuming there would be technical issues with VC implemented.

Please let this part of your argument go, and quite being so closed-minded. It's infuriating.

 

[Microsoft Chad]

Sorry, there's no excuse regardless of what your views are on your companies product. If you put a game out that's played competitively, or loved by more than die hards, then voice chat regardless of the negatives, will help your game have legs.

That PC analogy someone posted from a dev on twitter is the most rediculous things i'v ever read.

PC is open to Ventrillo, teamspeak, tinychat, skype, mumble, most of which can have open dialogue, if people are on the same server.

Even on steam if people are invited can have a whole group talking while the game is running.

And most games have open dialogue between teams.

LOL, hearthstone like other's have noted are not good examples.

Also all of this is pointless if the Voice Chat option is optional, off by default, or can be turned off before getting into an area where chatting takes place. Zero excuses.

 

[VinFTW]

My post clearly states I picked my favorite out of all the responses.




I can get people being stubborn enough to say Journey and Hearthstone don't count but League of Legends? That is a game that can benefit from coordination even moreso than Dota/Hon because of eventual spammability from cool down reductions.

Arguing against League is dishonest.

I gave you THE reason why it's not the same. LoL not only has a chat function, but it's also on a "system" that supports system-level voice chat.

 

[NotLiquid]

Some devs were quite annoyed with the IGN article.

This is certainly my favorite backlash.

The games and articles in question.

League of Legends

Journey

Hearthstone

Before anyone says these aren't all competitive games look at the dev's wording. He knows that but is getting across the point in games where people interact with each other to have fun, voice chat isn't a fundamental requirement.

It's interesting at least to me that Rami generally likes to think of the removal of the standard feature from a design perspective. As much as Cliffy B was already dismissed for supporting the omission it's more interesting to talk about how the design justifies itself. As much as you can level a bunch of comments of "the games/genre is obviously different", well, Splatoon is also obviously different from the team-based games that people are also comparing it to. If a standard feature you'd expect from the genre isn't around you would assume that there was some good reason for it, and aside from the obvious "Nintendo parenting us" comment, the devs took a deliberate stride in designing gameplay that is as inviting as possible while making the co-operation aspect a lot more natural, even while you're unconsciously providing to the game play.

I'm still hoping to see voice chat put into friend lobbies because it's inherently more fun to just be able to talk with your friends of course but a case can be made that depending on the game you're trying to make, standard genre conventions aren't necessarily a given. Splatoon in particular being a game that challenges most of the general conventions in it's genre to begin with feels like it has a bit more of a precedent in it's decision but the question is if that choice will have ended up being effective. The IGN article and several people in this topic for one feel like it's sorely lacking without it but the Metro article and several other people in this topic felt like the co-operation managed to offer a different and pleasant perspective without it, maybe because it was more conscious about it's intentions.

I guess we'll just have to see how it pans out.

 

[wildfire]

Or you could just accept that some people have opinions that differ from yours.

I personally am glad that there's no voice chat because that means I don't have to choose between playing better (turning voice chat on and trying to coordinate with teammates) and having a more enjoyable time (turning voice chat off and not having to risk meeting offensive players). Everybody's on a level playing field and that's great.

That's never true and you should accept the reality that someone will find a 3rd party way to gain an edge. I remember people were getting better draw distances on Asheron's Call by simply having a certain type of monitor. It's rare for people to do something that obscure to gain an edge but it's an example to show how extreme it can get.

Once people can form their 4 stacks without being randomized in 3 months some of them will have an inherent advantage through Team Speak.

You're better off sticking to your other points but you can forget about a level playing field being enforceable on any platform.

 

[Formless]

Competitive teams/tournaments/friends will use a voice chat alternative, playing randoms will be more or less random, Nintendo stays conservative, and I'll still buy Splatoon. Yes it'd be better with voice chat and muting.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

It's rare for people to do something that obscure to gain an edge but it's an example to show how extreme it can get.

It's honestly not - people will take any perceived edge they can when gaming is srs bsnss.
"Ghosting" LoL streamers is a fairly common thing, even at Bronze ELO.

 

[Sai-kun]

My post clearly states I picked my favorite out of all the responses.




I can get people being stubborn enough to say Journey and Hearthstone don't count but League of Legends? That is a game that can benefit from coordination even moreso than Dota/Hon because of eventual spammability from cool down reductions.

Arguing against League is dishonest.

and platoon doesn't even do text chat, which league does lmao

 

[Natureboy99]

They'll get my money when there's voice chat, I can swap weapons between deaths, I can use a Pro controller, and there's a healthy selection and rotation of maps. If that ends up being never, then so be it.

Yeah but there could be a cart-before-horse thing going on. If this bombs, Nintendo will give up on the franchise and go back to Mario-Mario-Mobile-Mario. Splatoon 2 should have all the features we expect. I'm willing to give them a pass on their first attempt only. The game looks really fun even without team strategy.

The "August Update" is going to add in friend teams, way more maps, weapons, and more. That might be the best time to jump in for you. Even if built in voice chat is missing, at least you could skype or google hangouts to bring back the voice chat. But until they have friend matchmaking, there will be no way to do this.

 

[Microsoft Chad]

This means you will be playing with/against la-

I like how you are stating speculation as objective based on nothing and are making up scenarios that we have no idea about and have not happened in some other games that you are also ignoring. Which despite it being pointless can be solved by not matching up players with mic together with those who don't but again nothing in your post is relevant.

As of now a option with voice chat with default set to off is a scenario that yields no issues.

 

[Microsoft Chad]

Or you could just accept that some people have opinions that differ from yo-

These aren't opinions, in the possible scenario if Voice Chat is included optionally. and off by default, there's literally no excuse to say there shouldn't be voice chat.

You whole post about why you are glad about their not being voice chat does not exist if Voice Chat is off by default so there's literally ZERO point to you post.

Everything you said is instantly vaporized by the fact it's off by default,.

The performance hit is, as was sta-.

Nope, you are using baseless assumptions from another game that is not this game, which has issues for unrelated reasons, ignoring all the games where there weren't any issues, to push a belief that voice chat would not work WITH IT DEFAULTED TO OFF in THIS game.

It literally doesn't make sense.

None of what you've said would be affected by having voice chat if it were off by default.

The souls games also exist on platforms where party chat exists, so it's not a good comparison.

The lag argument is a terrible one too. This is a feature that's been in console games for over a decade. If you can't figure out how to include it without unplayable lag, then spend more time working on the game or ask for help.

This guy knows what he is talking about.

regardless of if someone has someone else mut-

Mute=/=Off.

Again tell me what's hard to understand about this and we will work from there.

In a mute situation chat is still running, it's possible to have chat on, and mute someone but still talk to a person you have not muted.

How can you get that mixed up with Voice Chat being off by default?

All your excuses are literally nonsense.

 

[Stanng243]

I like how you are stating speculation as objective based on nothing and are making up scenarios that we have no idea about and have not happened in some other games that you are also ignoring. Which despite it being pointless can be solved by not matching up players with mic together with those who don't but again nothing in your post is relevant.

As of now a option with voice chat with default set to off is a scenario that yields no issues.

Except that the developers felt it wasn't worth the time/money to develop it. That seems to indicate at least one issue with voice chat.

 

[Microsoft Chad]

Except that the developers felt it wasn't worth the time/money to develop it. That seems to indicate at least one issue with voice chat.

No that's not an issue (you do know what that word means right?) with VC, especially if we don't know the reason why they didn't put it in. (Considering a lot of support is built in the OS I wouldn't expect it to really be a money issue)

For all we know, It's possible that they ran out of time and are making excuses because they had to get ready by the launch date. (Which isn't a VC issue) Then they decided to give out a stingy explanation for why it's not in there.

Completely subject different from the majority of the same 5 conversations being thrown around in this thread however.

 

[stan423321]

Imagine a following scenario. There is a WW2 team based multiplayer shooter with integrated team voice chat. The basic goal is capturing the enemy flag, however fragging enemies gives you money and you can buy power-ups with it. There is one particular power-up, Radio Buster, which disables enemy voice chat for 30 seconds when used. The typical behavior of veteran players is that they spam this power-up whenever they can and it's not already in effect. What do you think about all of this?

 

[Microsoft Chad]

Imagine a following scenario. There is a WW2 team based multiplayer shooter with integrated team voice chat. The basic goal is capturing the enemy flag, however fragging enemies gives you money and you can buy power-ups with it. There is one particular power-up, Radio Buster, which disables enemy voice chat for 30 seconds when used. The typical behavior of veteran players is that they spam this power-up whenever they can and it's not already in effect. What do you think about all of this?

Or how about realizing that having an option off by default does nothing at all to cause any issues?

 

[Gravy Boat]

Imagine a following scenario. There is a WW2 team based multiplayer shooter with integrated team voice chat. The basic goal is capturing the enemy flag, however fragging enemies gives you money and you can buy power-ups with it. There is one particular power-up, Radio Buster, which disables enemy voice chat for 30 seconds when used. The typical behavior of veteran players is that they spam this power-up whenever they can and it's not already in effect. What do you think about all of this?

I'd say they're wasting their time not buying better power ups.

 

[Stanng243]

No that's not an issue if we don't know the reason why they didn't put it in. (Considering a lot of support is built in the OS I wouldn't expect it to really be a money issue)

It's possible that they ran out of time and are making excuses because they had to get ready by the launch date. (Which isn't a VC issue)

Completely subject different from the majority of the same 5 conversations being thrown around in this thread however.

Until we know the exact reasons, it's as valid a reason as any other. If the developers didn't think it was worth the time and money, that's their decision.

Also, the developers wanted this game to be friendly to new users. I can see a coordinated team wrecking a group of random users, thus destroying their fun.

 

[stan423321]

Or how about realizing that having an option off by default does nothing at all to cause any issues?

This "option" doesn't affect your voice chat. It affects enemy voice chat.

 

[z0m3le]

Voice chat does Infact require extra bandwidth from the server to all clients whether it is "off" for some or not. These amount to just a few ms of ping, but considering wifi also adds to ping depending on your setup. It probably is noticeable to some. System level chat is what wii u needed.

Personally for 3 minute matches I don't know if voice chat would be quite as helpful as pinging the map for defending/attacking. Hopefully they add more communication options in August when this sort of feature even makes sense.

 

[Overside]

What's really impossible here is your statement that competent developers cannot make bad design choices. FROM software ported Dark Souls to PC locked at 30fps, 720p resolution ffs.

The world isn't black&white, existing of either crazy, lazy idiot or faultless genius developers. Nobody is perfect. And we have lot's of examples of good developers doing stupid things.

Splatoon not having voicechat ''because design' is a typical and undefendable example of a developer setting their 'design' priorities wrong, probably because of very limited experience with modern online gaming and therefor using standards from more than a decade ago.

The video interview pretty much negates this #1 attack point of 'lol nintendo dont know!'

Several of the main designers talked about there avid online gaming experiences, including the well knowns 'nintendo just dont know about.'

They talked about the pros and what they liked about voice chat, and the negatives. Its pretty much exactly what you would expect to hear.

They decided they didnt want the game played like that. At least not at launch.

However you may disagree with that, the 'nintendo dont know' narrative is bullshit hyperbole.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

My post clearly states I picked my favorite out of all the responses.




I can get people being stubborn enough to say Journey and Hearthstone don't count but League of Legends? That is a game that can benefit from coordination even moreso than Dota/Hon because of eventual spammability from cool down reductions.

Arguing against League is dishonest.

People have already made the point that PC games are terrible examples because there are multiple ways to chat with people on the same PC as you're playing the game on. If the Wii U at least had an OS level chat function people would have far less of a problem with the lack of in game voice chat.

As it is we have ZERO options, where as people on PC have MULTIPLE options on how to get voice chat on the same machine they're playing the game on. You don't need to have ridiculous suggestions like "Just call all of your buddies up with your cell phone and put it on speaker if you want to voice chat for your LOL game."

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Some devs were quite annoyed with the IGN article.

This is certainly my favorite backlash.

The games and articles in question.

League of Legends

Journey

Hearthstone

Before anyone says these aren't all competitive games look at the dev's wording. He knows that but is getting across the point in games where people interact with each other to have fun, voice chat isn't a fundamental requirement.

Aren't all of those PC games where you can use a separate voice client or program to chat with teammates? Ventrilo, TeamSpeak, etc... A console shooter is a completely different situation with no alternatives if the devs don't provide them.

 

[Crimson_Justice]

edit: ignore this, dude's gone

I like how you are stating speculation as objective based on nothing and are making up scenarios that we have no idea about and have not happened in some other games that you are also ignoring. Which despite it being pointless can be solved by not matching up players with mic together with those who don't but again nothing in your post is relevant.

As of now a option with voice chat with default set to off is a scenario that yields no issues.

I tried to make it clear that I was following your rebuttal to the possible lag excuse. I wasn't trying to offer a comprehensive counter-argument. Instead, I simply wanted to point out that this:

...if VC is OFF none of your post matter, only whenit's on would the issue happen. It's like a company putting in an optional Software Feature to make all colors only black and Blue in the game, which could cause your system to crash, but if it's off nothing happens.

NOTHING HAPPENS

Please tell me why this is hard to understand and maybe we can work from there.

is false.

Following your analogy: What if five of the other players in your match had this "optional Software Feature" set to on and their game crashed? Well, the match would be ruined. Sure, you're game didn't crash, but theirs did, and now your match is ruined.

Yes, I know that we don't have confirmation that VC is out of Splatoon for the same reasons as Smash Bros, and yes, I know that there are other games in the world where VC doesn't inflict lag. But, for a moment YOU were arguing under the assumption that it does, and I wanted to point out that that argument was invalid.

After reading your comments these last few pages, I don't expect a respectful response from you. So please, don't expect a response at all from me.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

You don't need to have ridiculous suggestions like "Just call all of your buddies up with your cell phone and put it on speaker if you want to voice chat for your LOL game."

And you can do this, but it's not the only solution. It's currently the only solution on the Wii U until there's a party system.

 

[Reebot]

Aren't all of those PC games where you can use a separate voice client or program to chat with teammates? Ventrilo, TeamSpeak, etc... A console shooter is a completely different situation with no alternatives if the devs don't provide them.

Yeah but admitting the comparison is blatantly pointless would have really undermined that guy's snappy twitter feed.

 

[Papacheeks]

My post clearly states I picked my favorite out of all the responses.




I can get people being stubborn enough to say Journey and Hearthstone don't count but League of Legends? That is a game that can benefit from coordination even moreso than Dota/Hon because of eventual spammability from cool down reductions.

Arguing against League is dishonest.

I never said they don't count? Where did I say that? I said they are bad examples, to what those tweets are trying to convey.

They are on a platform where their a plethora of chatting vices. And ones that can have open dialogue across both teams.

That's what i was trying to say.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Imagine a following scenario. There is a WW2 team based multiplayer shooter with integrated team voice chat. The basic goal is capturing the enemy flag, however fragging enemies gives you money and you can buy power-ups with it. There is one particular power-up, Radio Buster, which disables enemy voice chat for 30 seconds when used. The typical behavior of veteran players is that they spam this power-up whenever they can and it's not already in effect. What do you think about all of this?

I think all of the guys talking in their teamseak or on skype would have a laugh about it. The random matchmaking people would get mad because they couldn't finish their thorough analysis of why one of the teams snipers likes putting things in his ass.

And you can do this, but it's not the only solution. It's currently the only solution on the Wii U until there's a party system.

Yea, but that really isn't Splatoon's problem like a lot of people seem to make it out to be.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

that guy's snappy twitter feed.

"That guy" is a pretty well respected Indie dev, so its not at all shocking to me that he would have an issue with a well known games site saying not implementing a feature = cheap and lazy

 

[Solid Samus]

Some devs were quite annoyed with the IGN article.

This is certainly my favorite backlash.

The games and articles in question.

League of Legends

Journey

Hearthstone

Before anyone says these aren't all competitive games look at the dev's wording. He knows that but is getting across the point in games where people interact with each other to have fun, voice chat isn't a fundamental requirement.

very different contexts. dev in question is missing the point rather than making one, far as I can tell.

and if you're playing with a friend, in regards to any one of those games, overwhelming odds are that you're going to be talking to them, which is as simple as opening the chat program you probably already have on your PC (or whatever isn't Wii U), because PC (or whatever isn't Wii U) supports that kind of thing.

also, I don't have to point out the immense difference communication makes when playing LoL, do I? (or any of the other world-sweeping MOBAS.... which support voice chat functionality almost universally)

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Yea, but that really isn't Splatoon's problem like a lot of people seem to make it out to be.

Given that the Wii U's lack of a party system is a known factor, it is Splatoon's problem for not compensating. It could have been addressed by allowing voice-chat between friends when matchmaking with them.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

"That guy" is a pretty well respected Indie dev, so its not at all shocking to me that he would have an issue with a well known games site saying not implementing a feature = cheap and lazy

"That guy" should think his arguments through a little better before releasing them out to the world. It doesn't matter how respected of a developer he is when his point makes absolutely no sense and ignores a bunch of factors that go against what he's trying to convey just so it looks like his opinion on the situation is justified.

 

[jroc74]

And this is why I think Nintendo has a fundamental problem with the Wii U. It's not a console designed for 2014 and beyond. Peer pressure sells games. 'Bro, you got to get that new game to play with me online!' This one sentence sells a second console, second game, and second ps+/xbl sub. And its only a domino effect from there.

This literally made me start using my PS3 more and buy sports games for it more because after starting a new job co workers all had a PS3. And we all wanted to play Madden, 2K online. After a few games of us with speaker phones ...we all decided to get headsets. I mean we did message, called each other here n there after games but the headsets made things so much easier to do during the game. And it was competitive sports so it wasnt team based...so mainly having a good time with friends.. The OOHHs!, WHATs?? NO, NO, NOs!! OMGs!!..."Imma about to score"..hilarious. Talking here n there about others things, etc.

I can also tell you they all got PS4's and thats it. I'm the oddball that likes multiple consoles in the home.

Someone mentioned earlier.... get a handful of friends, play some co op game at home on the couch and make a rule nobody can speak, talk, communicate. See how well that goes over.

Many ppl are missing this point. Its not that its needed...you can play and win team based games without it....but it would be nice to have. Options. Someone mentioned a universal communication device can be used instead....whats more universal than everybody using the same voice chat system in the game?

The example with card games....I dont know what to say. By communicating with your partner or if none are partners about the cards you have...that effectively breaks the game. (depending on the card game). Voice chat isnt all about strategy. But socializing.

My counter to that is playing card games IRL...with a group of friends or not...and no one says a thing. At all. See how well that goes over. Even World Series of Poker....ppl say something here n there. Its even in the rules that you can speak, its just certain things are against the rules.

109. Table Talk / Disclosure: participants are obligated to protect the other participants in the Tournament at all times. Therefore, whether in a hand or not, participants may not:

1. Disclose contents of live or folded hands,
2. Advise or criticize play at any time,
3. Read a hand that hasn't been tabled,
4. Discuss strategy with an outside source.

The one-participant-to-a-hand rule will be enforced.

Special Exceptions

A participant is allowed to mention the strength or content of his/her hand if no other participant in the hand will have a decision to make.

In heads-up events or when down to the last two participants in a Tournament, participants may speak freely regarding the contents of their hands.

The Floor Person reserves the right use his/her judgment to determine if one participant intentionally helped another participant. Participants who violate this rule are subject to penalty in accordance with Rules 39, 107 and 108.

I have seen enough of it where I see ppl just communicating here n there...showing emotion, etc. You dont have to, but its nice to know you can. Options. Playing Spades IRL....if the table was dead silent the entire game it would make for a dull experience. Even online its makes for a more entertaining game. Even if I dont say a word but just read what others are posting. I rarely play a Spades game online, or any card game online and dont see the 'Good Luck Everyone' to start a match. It happens but its rare.

Options. I agree too options many can be bad but this? Its one option....

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Given that the Wii U's lack of a party system is a known factor, it is Splatoon's problem for not compensating. It could have been addressed by allowing voice-chat between friends when matchmaking with them.

I think the bigger problem is that Splatoon doesn't have matchmaking with friends, they should probably take care of that first.

 

[Bizazedo]

"That guy" is a pretty well respected Indie dev, so its not at all shocking to me that he would have an issue with a well known games site saying not implementing a feature = cheap and lazy

Still, if he's so with it, why would he choose Hearthstone of all games to compare to a multiplayer competitive shooter?

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Still, if he's so with it, why would he choose Hearthstone of all games to compare to a multiplayer competitive shooter?

The articles he linked are all along the lines of "this game is better at a fundamental design level without any chat features".

 

[Exile20]

Competitive teams/tournaments/friends will use a voice chat alternative, playing randoms will be more or less random, Nintendo stays conservative, and I'll still buy Splatoon. Yes it'd be better with voice chat and muting.

This is how I feel. VC would enhance the experience but not make an awful game better. Splatoon is fantastic so why wouldn't I buy a fantastic game ?

Is vc chat needed? no but it would be a nice to have. Nintendo has their own convictions about vc and we have no clue how much emails, call etc they get from parents about it but out of the big three Nintendo definitely takes it to heart.

I played Rainbow six seige for hours and hours and I can count on one hand where people actually used voice chat effectively and only because when you die you can see the enemy team better than the players still alive. The rest of the match were random noises in the background, people being annoying for no reason, etc. This game you would think is the best example of a game needing voice chat.

In PVZ I never encountered a team that used voice chat effectively at all.

Yes for competitive players it will be important but if it is that important then lack of vc chat ingame should never stop you from playing when there are many other alternatives.

Would I rather vc ingame? yes. is it a dealbreaker? hell no. did nintendo gave a lot of visual cues ingame to compensate for it? yes. Was Nintendo cheap and lazy? No.

Some people are already discussing ways to vc on http://squidboards.com/

 

[Bizazedo]

The articles he linked are all along the lines of "this game is better at a fundamental design level without any chat features".

So help me out a little more. What does Hearthstone, a 1 vs 1 online card game where I agree it is better off that it just has emotes, have to do with a 5 vs 5 team based competitive shooter?

Like, why even bring it up? If it's saying "Hey give it a chance it might work", sure, that's one thing. I'm fine with that and will nod.

If the comparison is to show that Splatoon flat out doesn't need it, though, and using Hearthstone to justify it? That's....a bit more nebulous.

 

[Solid Samus]

The articles he linked are all along the lines of "this game is better at a fundamental design level without any chat features".

You could make that argument for Journey but not for the other two, which still benefit from being on the PC platform, meaning they don't need in-built voice chat, and aren't completely devoid of people chatting during gameplay as some here would like to posit them as being. If I'm playing Hearthstone with a friend you'd better believe I'm not gonna consider a silent and totally non-social match 'better', from any possible perspective. I might even be chatting with a friend who's in another duel separate from mine thanks to third party (analogous to OS-level) chat solutions. If I'm playing with people I know and play with regularly on LoL or ANY Moba, you'd better believe we're going to communicate, because that makes us better at the game.

You could make the case for those games being better without any chat functionality with random people, but I've never, ever played a game with people I knew that wasn't better from actually being able to socialize with them.

I'm making that point in a Nintendo thread. Fucking bizarro world.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

So help me out a little more. What does Hearthstone, a 1 vs 1 online card game where I agree it is better off that it just has emotes, have to do with a 5 vs 5 team based competitive shooter?

Like, why even bring it up? If it's saying "Hey give it a chance it might work", sure, that's one thing. I'm fine with that and will nod.

If the comparison is to show that Splatoon flat out doesn't need it, though, and using Hearthstone to justify it? That's....a bit more nebulous.

You should probably ask him what he meant by it.

Second guessing him, one of the first rules of design is to question assumptions, and given all of the posts in this topic about it being 2015 and every competitive game must have built in voice chat I would imagine he is pointing out that that is an assumption that has evidence against it being true.

 

[Papacheeks]

You could make that argument for Journey but not for the other two, which still benefit from being on the PC platform, meaning they don't need in-built voice chat, and aren't completely devoid of people chatting during gameplay as some here would like to posit them as being. If I'm playing Hearthstone with a friend you'd better believe I'm not gonna consider a silent and totally non-social match 'better', from any possible perspective. If I'm playing with people I know and play with regularly on LoL or ANY Moba, you'd better believe we're going to communicate, because that makes us better at the game.

You could make the case for those games being better without any chat functionality with random people, but I've never, ever played a game with people I knew that wasn't better from actually being able to socialize with them.

I'm making that point in a Nintendo thread. Fucking bizarro world.

There's no way I can be as efficient as I am in LTS on titanfall if it wasn't for the in-game chat. And even though I play with regular's and we use teamspeak, I still use in game voice chat for other random players that might fill a spot on our team , so we can coordinate.

It's vital for team tactics.

To not have VC in Splatoon they alienate any chance at progressing strat's and getting better at team play.

 

[Exile20]

There's no way I can be as efficient as I am in LTS on titanfall if it wasn't for the in-game chat. And even though I play with regular's and we use teamspeak, I still use in game voice chat for other random players that might fill a spot on our team , so we can coordinate.

It's vital for team tactics.

To not have VC in Splatoon they alienate any chance at progressing strat's and getting better at team play.

Progressing strategies with randoms? That happens?

As you said with regulars you can easily use teamspeak or other forms of vc.

 

[pinkurocket]

You can coordinate in Splatoon by opening your eyes. Everything between the teams is designed to be contrasting, it takes but a glance to know how you can be a value to the team. Unless you haven't developed those situational awareness skills, it's completely possible to have a well-coordinated team with random strangers without voice chat. Even without looking at the map (which I agree is annoying to look away from the TV), you just have to look for enemy paint and splatter over it. If there's no enemy paint, you go pretty fast just swimming through it to find places to be.

I'm still hoping for voice chat once the friend lobbies get added, however voice chat isn't as necessary in Splatoon as compared to other team-based shooters just because of it's design. It's not like you have to look out for snipers hiding in the bushes, since a sniper(charger) shot leaves a trail of paint in front of it. I mean, it's in the design to be a very visually readable game.