Support NeoGAF

[REMAINSILLY]

You forgot being a Christian or believing God exists

Or in my case, being an Atheist that respects Christians and their right to believe.

 

[FoxMcChief]

You forgot being a Christian or believing God exists

I feel no different about religious folk throwing religion in my face than woke folk throwing pronouns at me.

I think everyone just needs to shut up more, have fun (even at your own expense sometimes) and just not feel like they need to push their own agendas on others, whether it’s politics, religion, race or sex.

I just know we need more big boobed and round ass older lady characters in games. If they are younger than 40 and don’t have that nice cellulite, then get them in there pronto!

 

[laynelane]

Nah.....America is just where the term "woke" originated, but it morphed into something much bigger than what it was. DEI is not unique to America at all.

Yep, I'm not from the US, but am asked to give my pronoun(s) in governmental, business, job, school, etc. communications and documents. And it's been that way for a while now. Also, what I identify as which includes the option not to answer and "other". There's a lot more too.

 

[The Saint]

I don't think OP is wrong. I have seen too much stuff that feels like culture war bullshit this week. So much so that I started clicking ignore on the topics as they come up.

 

[Hypereides]

No needy worry, many of us "anti-woke" are actually not subscribing to a particular exteme but rather roaming the majority middle (thus equally "anti" the other extreme side of the spectrum).

So if "the intolerants" around here are thinking we're all allies, they should think again.

I've seen enough in this forum to conclude most people are culturally open minded and common sense people.

TLDR; I think gaf is fine.

This.

If this kind of extreme behaviour would be seeping into gaming from the opposite side of the "aisle" you'd bet I'd be calling it out as well. Currently, GAF is balanced with opinions and discussions coming from both sides. Disagreements will be had. The other forum has an aggressive and intolerant stance towards anything that may challenge their view as opposed to GAF. Its full scorched earth and witch hunting.

Honestly, I'm tired of this politicization of gaming as whole. Its causing a lot of strife. I can't recall a period in the history of gaming where the community was this polarized. Folks used to get along well regardless of political leanings. Whoever brought in this "us vs. them" divide into it, should be blacklisted from getting anywhere near the industry. The current situation speaks for itself.

 

[laynelane]

I think many if not most of the anti-woke diatribes expose a weakness in white males that I am disappointed to see. It counters the narrative of strength and confidence that they like to portray. This post will probably be moderated - again due to over sensitivity.

I've noticed this weird bias that any dissidence over DEI is a "white males" issue. You write about narratives and yet actively engage in one yourself. It's one thing for bloggers on game sites and certain developers/publishers to attempt this sort of generalization - after all, it allows them to dismiss and minimize criticism of their views and decisions - but it's strange to see in people who don't have such motives.

 

[Tg89]

It's usually just a good indication to ignore someone.

Not saying there isn't some weird woke shit in games here and there but the people that complain incessantly about it and act like it's the cause of gaming's downfall are usually pretty fucking stupid in general. It's like reason 27 on the list of why some games underdeliver in this day and age.

 

[dDoc]

But that's my point, everyone is so quick to label something as woke when it isn't. If a game truly does fit the 'woke' label then it deserves criticism (Concord is fully deserving of it).

A good example of this is (sorry to keep going on about this)... Ghost of Yotei, a game I was really excited for, the previous game being my game of the gen, watched the trailer, looks fucking awesome, came on here to discuss it and it was already being labelled Ghost of Wokey or whatever, sucked all the discussion out of what looks like an interesting change in time period, additional weapons and stances etc.

I understand where you are coming from. Again, unfortunately this is caused by the DEI infestation of the industry. Most regular folk have had enough of the insanity and are starting to be vocal on their opposition. Which is good.

DA V is definitely a woke product. Besides, it also is not in the same vein is it's predecessors and a lot of lame decisions in it's production.

And tbf, certain decisions taken (that we can see for now) for Yotei , like the choice for the VA being a mega woke activist. I dont think that choice was innocent and without any deliberation behind it.

 

[xpresstuning]

You can't blame a pendulum that's simply swinging back.

Neither can you stop it.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

 

[Vick]

If this place truly were an echo chamber, as OP claims, then his opening post would be nothing but LOL emojis. Instead, he's got a lot of thumbs up, hearts, thoughtfulness, and strength emojis. Someone gifted OP gold. In an open forum like this one, the way to combat becoming an echo chamber is to actually post dissenting opinions, and back them up.

Absolutely true.

Want to believe however many of those positive reactions resulted from the most important portion of OP "need moderation to intervene" getting completely lost among all the "why can't we all just get along?" / "why can't we all be decent human beings" diabetes-inducing stuff from rest of the post.

Because otherwise that many people genuinely wanting this place to be moderated more is frightening stuff.

 

[Deerock71]

Here I thought this was going to be about the industry.

 

[paolo11]

I feel no different about religious folk throwing religion in my face than woke folk throwing pronouns at me.

I think everyone just needs to shut up more, have fun (even at your own expense sometimes) and just not feel like they need to push their own agendas on others, whether it’s politics, religion, race or sex.

I just know we need more big boobed and round ass older lady characters in games. If they are younger than 40 and don’t have that nice cellulite, then get them in there pronto!

I get you but if the topic is “if God exists” and you tell them I believe and explain it in a nicely manner, you still get banned .

 

[nial]

I don't agree with the moderation part as it's the one thing NeoGAF is objectively above ResetERA.
I wouldn't necessarily call NeoGAF an echo chamber, but what's concerning is how annoyingly loud one side of the community can be (which isn't really small, either).
Case in point, go make a Ghost of Yotei thread and see what happens in page 1.

 

[ToneyJ]

I consider myself leftist and think western studios and the west in general need to be called out on their virtue signaling bullshit and "forced representation" in gaming. It's starting to affect character designs, story, content (censorship) and even the types of games Japan makes. The double standards and favoritism on the gaming press side are awful as well. Like how they ran hit pieces on wukong/stellar blade but pushed and promoted Dragon Age and Star Wars Outlaws heavily.

 

[REMAINSILLY]

I consider myself leftist and think western studios and the west in general need to be called out on their virtue signaling bullshit and "forced representation" gaming. It's starting to affect character designs, story, content (censorship) and even the types of games Japan makes.

 

[Sweden85]

 

[bender]

Someone gifted OP gold.

That someone was Canadian though.

 

[Shake Your Rump]

Jesus Christ. Most of the replies on the first page only prove OP's point. Fucking yikes, dudes. Get off social media and YouTube. Reflect on what you are contributing.

It's been really bad here lately. I've intentionally been avoiding the site more and more due to this. I place people who do drive-by shitposts on ignore, but it doesn't help when people quote them.

Posting about Veilguard having an obvious agenda with the top scars and transgender dialogue options is one thing. But posting about "woke" in virtually every fucking discussion is a serious issue.

If this place truly were an echo chamber, as OP claims, then his opening post would be nothing but LOL emojis. Instead, he's got a lot of thumbs up, hearts, thoughtfulness, and strength emojis. Someone gifted OP gold. In an open forum like this one, the way to combat becoming an echo chamber is to actually post dissenting opinions, and back them up.

I think this only strengthens the argument. Emojis aren't a replacement for actual discussion. The first page of replies shows what type of person is vocal and what type has to settle for clicking an emoji button because any attempt at a serious discussion is immediately ridiculed.

 

[Moochi]

You don't need to save the woke. The only ones that really exist are too stupid and easily influenced to be saved. The forum should continue to uphold its current standards. Woke backlash is what you get when you try to change the standards for communication by buying your way into seats of media power and brutal forcing the ideology into every medium without caring or knowing what made the media great.

 

[SlimySnake]

Indeed, those leftist leaning(to not say full on clownworld participants) have some weird belief that a man has to be either virigin or have small(not avg, but small ) penis if they dont give into woke ideology, it doesnt work that way, bros

Only country we can consider progressive out of top10 is netherlands (but im pretty sure right wing won most recent elections there ;p) , rest are definitely ones who have very strong traditional values views which would be considered "misogonist rightwing extremist" by era and alike

 

[Shake Your Rump]

mean...come on now. You yourself is asking for this to become that forum lol.

There is a difference between being resetera and asking for a bit more civility here. Look at the first three replies. First is a condescending gif. Second is condescending text. Third is literally a gif telling op to go away.

Why is this acceptable?

 

[FinalBossWithTheMostPower]

There is a difference between being resetera and asking for a bit more civility here. Look at the first three replies. First is a condescending gif. Second is condescending text. Third is literally a gif telling op to go away.

Why is this acceptable?

I mean...they literally disagreed with OP.

And no one got banned.

Why ISN'T this acceptable to you?

 

[bender]

There is a difference between being resetera and asking for a bit more civility here. Look at the first three replies. First is a condescending gif. Second is condescending text. Third is literally a gif telling op to go away.

Why is this acceptable?

Strict moderation that had a strong ideological bent lead GAF down a path that boss man probably doesn't want to repeat. The folks that stuck around after the split probably had differing views to varying degrees and had to walk on eggshells around the old regime. And is the case with most things in life, the vocal minority of any given viewpoint tend to be the loudest. Blatant stuff (racism, homophobia, etc.) get kicked out quickly, but moderation tends to let people voice their opinions even if they differ from the viewpoint of the moderation team.

While I agree with the sentiment of the OP at times, I do appreciate that the goal of these boards seems to be to have fun. I can largely ignore the vocal minority here that often feels like the equal but opposite end of Era, but I also have the ability to confront ideas I oppose and/or dunk on foolishness without worrying about being banned. I do wish we'd talk about games more often, but it isn't like that opportunity isn't there, it just isn't what most people want to discuss and that's fine.

 

[poppabk]

There is a difference between being resetera and asking for a bit more civility here. Look at the first three replies. First is a condescending gif. Second is condescending text. Third is literally a gif telling op to go away.

Why is this acceptable?

Its acceptable in that it shouldn't be moderated - but it does make Neogaf shittier to read and interact with.

 

[near]

I mean...they literally disagreed with OP.

And no one got banned.

Why ISN'T this acceptable to you?

Drive-by posting discourages actual discussion and was generally frowned upon in the community. Over the last few years it has gone unchecked because it’s definitely become more prevalent. Some threads warrant it, I don’t quite think this one does to be fair.

Strict moderation that had a strong ideological bent lead GAF down a path that boss man probably doesn't want to repeat. The folks that stuck around after the split probably had differing views to varying degrees and had to walk on eggshells around the old regime. And is the case with most things in life, the vocal minority of any given viewpoint tend to be the loudest. Blatant stuff (racism, homophobia, etc.) get kicked out quickly, but moderation tends to let people voice their opinions even if they differ from the viewpoint of the moderation team.

While I agree with the sentiment of the OP at times, I do appreciate that the goal of these boards seems to be to have fun. I can largely ignore the vocal minority here that often feels like the equal but opposite end of Era, but I also have the ability to confront ideas I oppose and/or dunk on foolishness without worrying about being banned. I do wish we'd talk about games more often, but it isn't like that opportunity isn't there, it just isn't what most people want to discuss and that's fine.

If OP wants moderation to dictate talking points and discourse on specific topics then I strongly disagree with that idea, for the very reasons you mentioned. But if OP wants moderation to enforce healthy discussion then I’m with them on that.

 

[MSduderino]

It's hard to argue OP doesn't have a point after looking at the first few responses. All OP is asking for is "civility" of some sort and some "acceptance" of opposing views. These are reasonable requests and he wasn't specific with moderation suggestions or any solution like that. People are allowed to be jerks without being banned/threatened. We still want them to improve to not be jerks. I also think the baiting with the political stuff (woke vs. anti-woke) is very obvious and intentional. People polarize themselves to one side of that debate and refuse to try to understand where the other side is coming from. I still think everyone (including OP) wants to be able to dunk on others' opinions without fear of banning.

 

[FoxMcChief]

I get you but if the topic is “if God exists” and you tell them I believe and explain it in a nicely manner, you still get banned .

I was just ranting and you took some friendly fire.

 

[PeteBull]

Tolerance is not a two-way street. Tolerance by itself means that person X is tolerant towards person B. But B has no obligation to be tolerant to X.
That's where people are wrong - just like kindness - tolerance is one way street. You "hope" that the other side will reciprocate your feelings. But that's all to it.

So far everything "woke" is essentially a denial of what made the gaming great. It is an intolerant way to shove things no one asked for in your face and you have to be tolerant to it simply because you have been invested into gaming longer.

Tolerance doesnt mean acceptance, it means i tolerate ppl i dont agree with, aka i got no mean intentions towards them, i dont wish them any harm.
It doesnt mean i agree or will adjust my wolrdview to not offend their skewed unrealistic pov, nor i wont call out stuff when ppl try to affect my life/things i enjoy(like entertainment) with their behaviour/worldview.

Example- When actual prostitute with 1k bodycount spews shit that bodycount doesnt matter and she is born again virgin after not having sex for a month and going to church few times she deserves her ideal man- gl to u, u will need it, just dont expect me to agree with ur unrealistic pov nor treat u like u are traditional woman, u didnt preserve ur value so are basically equivalent to jobless hobo in a dating market from value perspective, u arent even good enough for recreational use only coz with bodycount that dwarves john wick's who knows what u caught, im not gonna be one that finds that out

 

[Dynasty8]

There is a difference between being resetera and asking for a bit more civility here. Look at the first three replies. First is a condescending gif. Second is condescending text. Third is literally a gif telling op to go away.

Why is this acceptable?

There is civility. Most of the posts here have been reasonable conversation. Don't just look at the lazy posts or gifs.

Regardless, people should be able to speak their minds. Even though I disagree with them.

This is how things turned to shit a few years back, when everything was heavily moderated and the so called "mods" would ban anyone for having a different opinion or lock any conversation that had even a pinch of controversy. It was wrong and most of us would go elsewhere if we aren't able to speak our minds.

For example, I didn't say anything wrong in my last 3-4 posts, but I probably would have been banned had this been the NeoGAF of 5-6 years ago. That's the reality. I welcome anyone who disagrees with me, let's discuss shit like adults...but it's wrong to shut people up for different posts, opinions, and yes...even jokes.

 

[PeteBull]

I consider myself leftist and think western studios and the west in general need to be called out on their virtue signaling bullshit and "forced representation" in gaming. It's starting to affect character designs, story, content (censorship) and even the types of games Japan makes. The double standards and favoritism on the gaming press side are awful as well. Like how they ran hit pieces on wukong/stellar blade but pushed and promoted Dragon Age and Star Wars Outlaws heavily.

Yup u are spot on, overall game's quality from western studios is falling hard for this very reason, we on gaf are gamers first so ofc ppl cant be surprised nor annoyed many of us notice and call out obvious downgrade in game quality(especially big budget AAA western titles, almost all genres too), we even pinpoint main reason for it, then are called names for not pretending everything is fine like those "toxic positivity" ppl in many closed dev studios.

 

[paolo11]

I was just ranting and you took some friendly fire.

My apologies my friend. I also didn’t mean to argue .

 

[March Climber]

It's been really bad here lately. I've intentionally been avoiding the site more and more due to this. I place people who do drive-by shitposts on ignore, but it doesn't help when people quote them.

This doesn't help either, because you end up doing a forum version of a battle royale and the circle keeps closing more and more until you're only seeing a handful of posters interact with phantoms.

I've seen posters do this and they end up posting less and less until they simply become lurkers at a certain point.

 

[nikos]

What's nice about GAF is being able to post your opinion about something without the fear of being permabanned.

If I'm being completely honest, this place wasn't always like that and other forums most certainly aren't. I've typed thousands of replies on various sites without ever clicking "post" because I didn't want to either get banned or deal with a ton of people ganging up on me over an unpopular opinion.

GAF may seem one-sided because a lot of members are of the opinion that woke culture and DEI are completely destroying creativity and, as a result, the games we love and are passionate about. That sort of says a lot considering members here seem to be from all over the world.

If someone here were to post that they're all for DEI, agenda pushing, woke culture, etc. I don't think they'd get permabanned for it. They may get LOL reacts or something but I don't think there are any mods here that would immediately ban them for a differing opinion.

 

[Danjin44]

There is a difference between being resetera and asking for a bit more civility here. Look at the first three replies. First is a condescending gif. Second is condescending text. Third is literally a gif telling op to go away.

Why is this acceptable?

That’s just nature of internet, no social media it’s perfect place….when you go this type of place you have to accept there is going to be shit posting.

To me this gaming forum I don’t take it seriously enough to care, if I’m not happy here then I just leave this place like I did when I was in gamespot forums.

 

[midnightAI]

And tbf, certain decisions taken (that we can see for now) for Yotei , like the choice for the VA being a mega woke activist. I dont think that choice was innocent and without any deliberation behind it.

And I get that, but maybe she just happens to be a really good voice actress? so long as her politics don't affect the game (and why would they, she's a VA not a writer) then I don't honestly care. She has done voice work for countless games like Destiny and Call of Duty and no-one said shit about it then. It's just a shame that all the talk is about the VA rather than the game itself.

Also, I'll personally be playing with Japanese voice over anyway, so even less of a concern for me.

 

[yogaflame]

Tolerance and diversity is good but it is also a trap sometimes. They might even argue that it is just a video game or maybe a movie tv show or slap to your face that you can choose not to buy it, but still it has influence to human being and a way of conditioning and forcing and pushing an agenda. This is good we speak against twisted agenda even in gaming and entertainment industry before it becomes a norm because we are human and with soul and common sense. Moderating and banning speaking up against twisted agenda while allowing push and force agenda , making it is a norm is not fair and it is double standard which will kill the industry. Just want to quote "When good men do nothing, evil triumphs"

 

[Singular7]

Moderation always favors the pro-trans rainbow stuff, so no OP, I disagree, because then gaf would die and just become Reset-era, banning those who question the agenda.

Open discussion and free speech are the bedrock of the society that created video games in the first place.

Systems built on propaganda and mind control always fail, and produce absolute trash products.

 

[Zacfoldor]

Why can you simply not stand up in an argument with people?

What causes you to want to beg for help from an authority figure instead of trying to present your argument and show people why you are right?

We own the zeitgeist now. Ask Michael Pachter about Star Wars Outlaws. Not just here but across the industry. Deny that at your game's peril. You won't like what we do with it, but you can take it back at anytime.

There are tons of safe spaces you can go where we are not welcome but you will never get the zeitgeist back unless you confront us and defeat us using ridicule, in public, fairly and accurately.

That's not gonna happen until you accept that you need to fight for your beliefs and not hide from those who may question them. The people with these opinions will not stop existing just because you can't see them. Instead of arguing with you unsuccessfully they will fill up every reddit thread, every comment section, youtube channel, and user review box until they are impossible to avoid.

I'd go on that other forum and convince people my way of thinking is correct but I don't have that opportunity. You do. Why are you lobbying to throw it away? Stay with us and make us better. Do not silence and remove us. Stay with us and we can show you memes that will make you cry laughing. We will show you games that will make you fall in love all over again, and we will once again be friends. Don't abandon us over your own neurosis or your latest political revelation. Don't divide us like water and oil. We are far more similar than we are different. We've each just bought into separate political ideologies which themselves are simple constructs designed to give us some semblance of control in a world of chaos. Come together and we can be as one, as we always were, gamers. You don't know what you've got till it's gone.

 

[simpatico]

One piece of etiquette I apply to myself here on GAF is not shit posting in OTs of games I have no interest in buying. Dragon Age is a great example. I've expressed my opinion in most of the news threads about the game, but I think the OT should be saved for people who are going to try to like it. Now, if it's a game I was hyped for, buy it and it sucks, then I have no problem expressing that in an OT, but at least it's good faith conversation and not drive by dunking. Even then, I'm probably not going to linger beyond my impression of being disappointed by it.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

I consider myself leftist and think ...

As a European right winger, I hardly find any other people on here who are made of the same ideological fabric as I am. From my point of view, because the Republican party is a child of the revolution, which through the eyes of a European is on the political left, practically everyone on this forum to me is a lefty

 

[BigDeadFreak]

Every side in every debate needs to guard against becoming prisoner to their extremes. Anyone who thinks this doesn't apply to them is a fool.

 

[balls of snow]

I agree with the OP, but this is not the place I want to debate it, and it’s infecting everything. I come here to read about games, and hopefully enjoy them. It’s getting harder and I come here less as a result - not asking anyone to care, it’s just a shame for me as I used to enjoy this place a lot more.

The culture war bs is why Im not participating in the Dragon Age ot. I would rather talk about the lore and how they did/did not do a good job but can already see how its gonna go.

I somewhat feel you OP.

RE: Dragon Age Veilguard: I'm not sure if there's gonna be a single topic that folks who are playing the game can discuss it in without every other post being a derail. I just want a topic to just talk about the game.

Abandon hope.



Gaf always had a mean streak when it comes to games that are targeted for whatever reason. Oh well. I make it a point to get on the devs twitter and thank them if I enjoyed a game. About all I can do really, a purchase and a small thanks for keeping my hobby alive.

 

[Bloobs]

 

[WhamBamThankYouMaam]

I'm not about to equate Judaism to what's going on with the gender cult.....you can if you like.

There are many groups that believe their version of god is correct and that they have to disfigure their children. Others believe that their children are of the opposite sex however they don’t cut pieces of their children yet some of their children once old enough go through surgery because of this.

I don’t have to agree with any of them.

 

[Guileless]

I have made my share of jokes about the Fat Jedi and whatnot once the hate train gets going. But everyone should post their actual opinion as long as they back it up with their reasoning. If you like Veilguard, tell us why. I will read it if you make a cogent argument.

Tribalism is a natural human impulse and sometimes you have to put up with the other tribe.

 

[xenosys]

If you want sanitized discourse, head on over to ResetEra.

 

[QuantumZebra]

 

[MSduderino]

"I wish that discussions here were moderated a bit more to promote balanced viewpoints and discourage personal attacks"

I feel like all the dissenters here are hung up on this one sentence from the OP. Most people can agree with the rest of the OP about the discourse getting worse.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

This also doesn’t work and as a matter of fact, the opposite happens more on a constant basis. Certain posters will jump into threads that have nothing to do with the topic and derail it with culture war posts.

Well like I said, it depends. You just gotta get into the convo with a slick angle and go from there. I've managed to do it a few times, I'm sure others have, too.

It's either that or just don't go in that thread and try another. TBF, only the most obvious news of events that clearly play into/invite culture war stuff, get those types of responses at a high rate (or at all). If it seems like it happens more than in the past, well the industry itself is in large part to blame.

Like the threads about Astro Bot were mainly devoid of it. Lots of other threads are, too, especially retro gaming threads. But any thread about something SBI have done/said/are involved in (i.e Dustborn) or SBI-adjacent (i.e Concord with the obvious "modern audiences" character designs) is just naturally going to invite lots of comments about the culture war.