Radical_3d
Member
Galaxy brain.
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I'm a little sick of technological advancements that are barely noticeable.
- Thread starter PurePlatinum
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Come On Tars
Member
Smile that you most likely lived through the revolutionary gains of old gen console upgrades. What an exciting time!
The cheapskate in me doesn't mind tho, I had a 1080ti for like 7 years.
The cheapskate in me doesn't mind tho, I had a 1080ti for like 7 years.
hinch7
Member
Not really. Ray tracing is the way forward. It can produce far more accurate lighting, shadows and reflections. With an added benefit of helping devs with baked in software soutions like Lumen in UE5; which enables developers to create their vision in games - big or small.
The issue is AMD and their haphazard approach to this and not taking RT seriously, for years. RTGI should've be standardised this gen. Instead we get reflective puddles from the Turing days and crappy RTAO because consoles can't do much better. Maybe some software RT at best.
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nemiroff
Gold Member
I've been discussing gaming tech on the net since the 90's, and:
Much of what's considered trivial standard tech today was at some time generating similar concern.
Just think about that for a moment..
Pathtracing will for sure be the standard in the future - unless realtime generative AI somehow beats it..
And keep in mind, stake holders over-promising features to promote themselves instead of contextualizing it properly, is a separate issue.
Much of what's considered trivial standard tech today was at some time generating similar concern.
Just think about that for a moment..
Pathtracing will for sure be the standard in the future - unless realtime generative AI somehow beats it..
And keep in mind, stake holders over-promising features to promote themselves instead of contextualizing it properly, is a separate issue.
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Pandawan
Member
Yes.
From 1999 to 2007, we went from the pixelated PS1 games to Uncharted. From brick Nokia phones that could do nothing but make calls to the first iPhone that could browse the internet, take photos, and play 3D games.
And from 2016 to 2024, we went from Uncharted 4 to an Indiana Jones game that looks worse than Uncharted 4. And from an iPhone with a notch to an iPhone with an island.
From 1999 to 2007, we went from the pixelated PS1 games to Uncharted. From brick Nokia phones that could do nothing but make calls to the first iPhone that could browse the internet, take photos, and play 3D games.
And from 2016 to 2024, we went from Uncharted 4 to an Indiana Jones game that looks worse than Uncharted 4. And from an iPhone with a notch to an iPhone with an island.
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HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
It doesn't have to be brand new technology to be a technological advancement.
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xVodevil
Member
Yep, that! Just take Elden Ring for example, none denied the lackluster tech for the time behind it, but the masterful art direction will not fade anytime soon.
The marketed superior this or that won't ever really hold the candle for these kinds of games that will hold up just as fine 10+ years from now. Now some of the older games would just do that, if not for the limitations for the time.. Worst when you fire up a PC game from a decade or more ago only to realize it will neither support the modern resolutions and inputs..
Bernardougf
Member
Ray tracing is the most overrated graphics gimmick of all time. Period. It may be something good for devs in like 2 gens but by then some new shit will have come already.
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kiphalfton
Member
Stupid take.
Technological advances are generally minor, and not huge leaps and bounds.
Technological advances are generally minor, and not huge leaps and bounds.
XXL
Member
Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
You pretty much just described Japanese games in this current universe.
Well I'm alreayd contented with good IQ and frame rate but I still I hope they can find the way to make RT cheaper and not take too much resources. I think with the advent of ML AI it can be possible. I'm not a tech, but i hope they find a way.
But way to expensive and eats allot of resources. It is still not mainstream. Sometimes it is not even noticeable or when you played a game for a long time you will not notice it or care about it anymore. I still hope they can make it cheaper and easier especially with ML AI tech advancement.
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PianistaMacabro
Member
Sorry but people saying that RT is a waste......have no ideia what they are talking about
Last Hearth
Member
RT is better for when you're taking screenshots and photo modes, when playing the game things are moving too fast for one of to notice things like that.
CompleteGlobalSaturation
Member
Completely agree.
cash_longfellow
Member
Zathalus
Member
Never have I disagreed with anything more strongly. Most of those items you mentioned make a huge difference in how a game looks when implemented well.
Even an old game like Witcher 3 gets an overhaul in visuals when they added RT. Cyberpunk 2077 can look a gen ahead with PT enabled. Other games it can make near zero difference like Far Cry 6.
HDR is heavily panel dependant, edge lighting LED is going to look bad, but OLED or mini-LED is a different story.
The visual benefits of 1080p to 4K are immediately obvious as well, and pretty easy for me to spot.
Even an old game like Witcher 3 gets an overhaul in visuals when they added RT. Cyberpunk 2077 can look a gen ahead with PT enabled. Other games it can make near zero difference like Far Cry 6.
HDR is heavily panel dependant, edge lighting LED is going to look bad, but OLED or mini-LED is a different story.
The visual benefits of 1080p to 4K are immediately obvious as well, and pretty easy for me to spot.
Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
bitbydeath
Member
I've argued many times how RT is a complete waste of resources.
Here's a comparison of CyberPunk which is "the best" Ray-Tracing has to offer on PC.
No RT
RT
Path Tracing
More can be found here:
Here's a comparison of CyberPunk which is "the best" Ray-Tracing has to offer on PC.
No RT
RT
Path Tracing
More can be found here:
That's what happens when most gaming advacements these days are aimed at graphics whores, there's a limit and diminishing returns so it doesn't even make a difference. I don't remember my SNES games having any of this nonsense and they were way more fun to play than most of the modern games with these "advancements"
Trilobit
Member
I found myself nodding with most of what you said. HDR can be nice or a huge disappointment and I never know if I've done something wrong in the settings. 3D audio is also very lackluster. I've never heard anything above me that's given me a 3D-sensation akin to that Barber Shop 3D Audio youtube vid.
I also get very bored when I see comparisons on this site of a zoomed in line in the background of a game that is a bit clearer and sharper on PS5 Pro. I'm not especially wowed by any of those stuff that you need to zoom in 500% to see. The things that impress me once I have at least 60fps are the animations in games and the usage of color. I think I'll be perfectly happy with Switch 2.
avin
Member
Do what I do, OP. Step away from gaming for upto 10 years at a time before dipping back in. I may game less than any of you when it's added up, but I'll wager much more of my time is spent being blown away by what I see.
avin
Crayon
Member
Better post more cyberpunk screenshots. There must be some people who haven't seen them a thousand times.
Knightime_X
Member
I'm surprised we even have ray tracing this early in gaming.
The RT we see today is only like ~20% of its true potential.
Most games just use bits and pieces of ray tracing.
The RT we see today is only like ~20% of its true potential.
Most games just use bits and pieces of ray tracing.
gooner4life_uk
Member
Raytracing benefits game developers more than the people who are playing the game, it's not doing anything that good baked lighting couldn't do years ago, even reflections, Duke Nukem 3D had perfect mirrors in bathrooms and stuff years ago, was it ray traced? no they just used another camera, devs have got lazy, they want everything in an API, click this box and it will handle reflections, looks like shit? oh sorry, now digital foundry pointed it out we will go take a look at it, it was a bug.
semiconscious
Member
I've argued many times how RT is a complete waste of resources.
Here's a comparison of CyberPunk which is "the best" Ray-Tracing has to offer on PC.
No RT
RT
Path Tracing
More can be found here:
thanks for this...
Donald mac Ronald
Member
I agree op.whwn I turn on RT in cyberpunk I can't tell the difference with it on or off. I'll switch back and forth to see but can't tell.
What I can tell is the frame rate tank. Baked lightening and light sources etc without ray tracing is perfectly fine.
What I can tell is the frame rate tank. Baked lightening and light sources etc without ray tracing is perfectly fine.
Stooky
Banned
iPhone 2016:
4K video recording at 30 fps.
1080p HD video recording at 30 fps or 60 fps.
Iphone 2024:
4K120 fps video recording: This is the highest resolution and frame rate combination ever available on an iPhone. It's possible to record in 4K Dolby Vision at 120 fps with an external storage device that supports speeds of at least 440 MB per second.
ProRes video recording: This feature allows users to record up to 4K video at 120 fps with external recording
Plays RS4 Performance, 60 FPS (1560x720)
This gaslighting is hilarious. Y'all complain about e v e r t h y t h i n g
Those of us from atari, nes, master system era are in gaming Valhalla right now.
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SportsFan581
Member
Not all games feature a spatial/binaural audio setup, are you sure you've been playing games that feature the tech? I've always found it rather noticeable, it might not trick me into thinking I'm in the room with the sound, but it does standout.
bitbydeath
Member
Nanite or other unlimited detail systems should be the next push. That’s how we get graphics like the Land of Nanite demo, and The Matrix demo.
Lighting/shadow enhancements does very little to the final image.
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Zuzu
Member
I'm sick of the regression in image quality that's taken place over the last few years. Recently I played through Final Fantasy 12 Zodiac Edition on my Series X and even though it's only 1080p it looked really clean and sharp with just a bit of aliasing. Even though it's a remastered PS2 game it's refreshing being able to look at such a clean image compared to the low resolution, muddy, ghosting and artifact-ridden graphics present in a lot of games today.
With regards to 3D audio I am quite happy with the DTSX and Dolby Atmos apps on the Series X but yes the 3D/spatial effect they produce is moderate at best and if it exists it feels like it's just a soundscape that's hovering just around the outside of my head and so it very localised. However, I haven't used any personalised setting with them. But I have used the personalised setting with my Airpods Max to listen to Dolby Atmos music on Apple Music and the effect is still not anywhere like listening to external speakers. It's at best what Darko Audio on Youtube dubbed "Super Stereo" and I think that's a fitting description of these 3D/spatial audio technologies in consumer devices atm. They add more soundstage width and perhaps locational depth to music but they still fundamentally sound like stereo audio and if there is any 3D/surround sound effect it's pretty localised to just around your head for a lot of people.
A highly advanced 3D audio headphone processor is the Smyth Realiser A16 which costs $4,695 USD (and doesn't include headphones). By what I've read this does capably reproduce the effect of sitting in a room with 24 virtual loudspeakers in any direction. While I don't know much about 3D audio technology I think it is likely this is the level of technology you need to get the effect to work properly for all people. The consoles and things like the iphone obviously don't have this level of audio tech built into them and so I don't think true 3D audio is really available for most people despite the claims of these companies (Apple and Sony's 3D audio may work for a small group of people quite well but I don't think it works for most people). Rather, at best we usually get something like super stereo with perhaps a little bit of localised 3D/spatial effect.
Here's a picture of the Smyth Realiser A16 on the Smyth Research website for anyone interested:
With regards to 3D audio I am quite happy with the DTSX and Dolby Atmos apps on the Series X but yes the 3D/spatial effect they produce is moderate at best and if it exists it feels like it's just a soundscape that's hovering just around the outside of my head and so it very localised. However, I haven't used any personalised setting with them. But I have used the personalised setting with my Airpods Max to listen to Dolby Atmos music on Apple Music and the effect is still not anywhere like listening to external speakers. It's at best what Darko Audio on Youtube dubbed "Super Stereo" and I think that's a fitting description of these 3D/spatial audio technologies in consumer devices atm. They add more soundstage width and perhaps locational depth to music but they still fundamentally sound like stereo audio and if there is any 3D/surround sound effect it's pretty localised to just around your head for a lot of people.
A highly advanced 3D audio headphone processor is the Smyth Realiser A16 which costs $4,695 USD (and doesn't include headphones). By what I've read this does capably reproduce the effect of sitting in a room with 24 virtual loudspeakers in any direction. While I don't know much about 3D audio technology I think it is likely this is the level of technology you need to get the effect to work properly for all people. The consoles and things like the iphone obviously don't have this level of audio tech built into them and so I don't think true 3D audio is really available for most people despite the claims of these companies (Apple and Sony's 3D audio may work for a small group of people quite well but I don't think it works for most people). Rather, at best we usually get something like super stereo with perhaps a little bit of localised 3D/spatial effect.
Here's a picture of the Smyth Realiser A16 on the Smyth Research website for anyone interested:
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Stooky
Banned
That's not true at all. Baked lights aren't dynamic which doesn't help for games. Baked lights takes hours to render for a level. Ive been on projects were you have to render over night and hope that the bake came out good when you check it the next morning, Raytracing saves so much iteration time and it looks better. Baked lights is a hack because we didn't have the compute to do raytracing.
This argument will die when gpus get fast enough to handle and they will.
lazy devs lol
Raytracing is not just for lighting, its used for accurate audio positioning, pathing for ai, accurate player to enemy hit detection, the list goes on.
what you are seeing with uncharted vs indiana jones is a budget issue. XXL budget vs smedium budget. nothing to do with compute or gpu.
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ResilientBanana
Member
Ray tracing is fantastic and since nvidia was doing it, AMD wanted to join hence why it’s on consoles. I beg to wonder why those attracting cores are limited to visual and is not used for AI for Enemy NPC’s.
Sure it halves performance on PC to maybe 60fps with a few tweaks. But the payoff is quite good for developers that implement it well.
Sure it halves performance on PC to maybe 60fps with a few tweaks. But the payoff is quite good for developers that implement it well.
ZoukGalaxy
Member
Take a break from all these technologies obsession and just PLAY and ENJOY your games ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
and then the game will cost 500 million to make and have a 12 year dev cycle because implementing all those features at the same time while showing off the graphical prowess of the new tech has a massive detriment to budgeting and dev time
amigastar
Member
I've argued many times how RT is a complete waste of resources.
Here's a comparison of CyberPunk which is "the best" Ray-Tracing has to offer on PC.
No RT
RT
Path Tracing
More can be found here:
There are notable differences, so i wouldn't say Raytracing is overrated.
bitbydeath
Member
There’s differences but I wouldn’t say it’s worth the required resources.