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I'm only looking forward to Nintendo games
- Thread starter snaildog
- Start date
AirBrian said:
Don't have links under hand, but I saw comments on this board about the old RE4 shots looking better than current ones. Which I kinda agree with.... "kinda" because I never payed so much attention to RE pics to claim for sure
Early Fable shots used more polys that the finished game did, as by Molineux admission - which again I dont remember where I read, sorry.
Point is that I wouldn't believe to early pics that look too good to be true. It already happened plenty of times, that the first shots are fake simulations of what the game will look, and may be too optimistic.
HOWEVER, in the case of this Zelda, the trick is probably in mixing up real time and pre rendered scenes in the released pictures.
Do you think that the engire rendering these shots here:
is the same behind these?
I don't.
Let's just see two similiarly themed pics one after the other:
Most noticeable difference, the first pic had a blur effect on the farther, out of focus objects.
The last doesn't. Neither it shows any close up of the characters, which may have lost detail as well. What it shows, is an unfiltered, low poly and overall unimpressive scene. Imo.
Some pictures are too good to be real time imo, while the others - definitely from the gameplay - tend to not look so good even by today standards.
I'm counting they will see improvements, but what I read in the current SS is FMV shots + mediocre real time shots, not material for the Best Graphics Of 2005 award.
Edit: So yes, in my first post I gave partially inaccurate examples of the reasons I don't think the game looks so good at the moment, but the popint remains: some fans are eating bait and line all togheter, mentally blocking out the crappy pictures and awing over some concept art or FMV renders, that were mixed in there for that exact purpose.
But not with Nintendo games... the only thing that comes close is Super Mario Sunshine (which for whatever reason went from 60 fps to 30 fps?)... but with pretty much every other Nintendo game (Metroid Prime, Ocarina of Time, The Wind Waker, Mario 64, F-Zero X, Mario Kart 64, etc) the final game ends up looking better than earlier media releases.Ar_ said:
I'm counting that is what will happen here, and the final game will look better than the pictures I'm positive are rendered in real time. But for now, those look average at best, don't they?
I'm just nitpicking, since the game has time to be polished, but wanted to rain a little on the hype "Best Graphs Ever" parade
I'm just nitpicking, since the game has time to be polished, but wanted to rain a little on the hype "Best Graphs Ever" parade
I'm not seeing the differences you're talking about. Especially in the first 4 screens. While the forest screen most likely came from a cut-scene, the other 3 look "in game" or at least consistant with the video. All of the screens display examples of flaws created by a real time image.Ar_ said:Don't have links under hand, but I saw comments on this board about the old RE4 shots looking better than current ones. Which I kinda agree with.... "kinda" because I never payed so much attention to RE pics to claim for sure
Early Fable shots used more polys that the finished game did, as by Molineux admission - which again I dont remember where I read, sorry.
Point is that I wouldn't believe to early pics that look too good to be true. It already happened plenty of times, that the first shots are fake simulations of what the game will look, and may be too optimistic.
HOWEVER, in the case of this Zelda, the trick is probably in mixing up real time and pre rendered scenes in the released pictures.
Do you think that the engire rendering these shots here:
is the same behind these?
I don't.
Let's just see two similiarly themed pics one after the other:
Most noticeable difference, the first pic had a blur effect on the farther, out of focus objects.
The last doesn't. Neither it shows any close up of the characters, which may have lost detail as well. What it shows, is an unfiltered, low poly and overall unimpressive scene. Imo.
Some pictures are too good to be real time imo, while the others - definitely from the gameplay - tend to not look so good even by today standards.
I'm counting they will see improvements, but what I read in the current SS is FMV shots + mediocre real time shots, not material for the Best Graphics Of 2005 award.
The last comparison look the same. The difference being the distance the characters are from the screen; the characters just cover the bland environment in the first pic. Ground, sky and character models look the same, but naturally lose detail because they are further from the screen. That blur effect is most likely in game as well; its an effect used most liberally in Nintendo's games and is a technique that is "built into" the Gamecube hardware. In SFA, when Fox was locked onto something, the background blurred just like that; SMS, WW, MKDD have all used that effect too.
We aren't at a point where we can rightfully distingish between realtime and rendered screes... because all we have to look at are the first batch of screens. There is nothing right now to suggest that this is NOT what the game will look like. Not by comparing pics, not by looking at Nintendo's history, nothing. The only thing that suggests that they are is your imagination.
Two factors suggest that half the screens are prerended:
- Some screens seem too good to be real time on the GC.
- There is a marked difference of quality between screens.
You dont see it... I do.
I don't see how you can consider the 3rd screen - the fight on stairs, with 4 detailed characters and some background - to be of consistent quality with the first two, both of which would look substandard on a PS2: a bare background dungeon room with a single small character in it, and a no background fight with a whole two models on screen, which btw are too dark to show any detail.
That blur effect, "most likely in the game as well", does not show in one of the pics - which was exactly my point about their differing quality, and you didn't explain it's lack.
- Some screens seem too good to be real time on the GC.
- There is a marked difference of quality between screens.
You dont see it... I do.
I don't see how you can consider the 3rd screen - the fight on stairs, with 4 detailed characters and some background - to be of consistent quality with the first two, both of which would look substandard on a PS2: a bare background dungeon room with a single small character in it, and a no background fight with a whole two models on screen, which btw are too dark to show any detail.
That blur effect, "most likely in the game as well", does not show in one of the pics - which was exactly my point about their differing quality, and you didn't explain it's lack.
I'm not going to proclaim "2005 GOTY" off of screenshots. (Plus RE4 will be in contention.Ar_ said:I'm counting that is what will happen here, and the final game will look better than the pictures I'm positive are rendered in real time. But for now, those look average at best, don't they?
I'm just nitpicking, since the game has time to be polished, but wanted to rain a little on the hype "Best Graphs Ever" parade
) Zelda is still probably at least year away before it gets released. However, I think the game will look better than these screenshots. And if the screenshots are any indication, it will be a fantastic looking game.1st shig went out of his way to say this is running on GCN hardware.
2nd none of those screens look at all outside of the capabilities of this gen's hardware. even the forest scene is most definitely possible through clever use of pre-rendered portions of the background and filtering (aka possibly not everything you are seeing in that scene is really being rendered right there). look at the horse for example.. clearly not a curved surface on his hindquarter. Why go through the effort to present a CG movie with less than perfect models? I'm thinking along the lines of FFVII where they overlayed polys on top of movies.
3rd as has been said by many in this thread, Nintendo has a pretty solid history of showing games that look markedly better than initial screenshots.
No matter what, I'm confident that the game we get next year will look AS GOOD AS, if not better than the screenshots you've posted in this thread. We don't even have to wait until release. I'm sure the game will be playable at E3.
2nd none of those screens look at all outside of the capabilities of this gen's hardware. even the forest scene is most definitely possible through clever use of pre-rendered portions of the background and filtering (aka possibly not everything you are seeing in that scene is really being rendered right there). look at the horse for example.. clearly not a curved surface on his hindquarter. Why go through the effort to present a CG movie with less than perfect models? I'm thinking along the lines of FFVII where they overlayed polys on top of movies.
3rd as has been said by many in this thread, Nintendo has a pretty solid history of showing games that look markedly better than initial screenshots.
No matter what, I'm confident that the game we get next year will look AS GOOD AS, if not better than the screenshots you've posted in this thread. We don't even have to wait until release. I'm sure the game will be playable at E3.
Unfortunately for you, all those shots are obviously realtime.Ar_ said:I'm counting that is what will happen here, and the final game will look better than the pictures I'm positive are rendered in real time. But for now, those look average at best, don't they?
I'm just nitpicking, since the game has time to be polished, but wanted to rain a little on the hype "Best Graphs Ever" parade
Wyzdom said:Of course i'm not trolling. I want to get you guys realistic. The only thing that is better in those screenshots may be the resolution of the graphics and that's all. It's all simple textured and pretty blurry without much geometry. Open your eyes.
Wow, it's how the PS2 does "rocks" when there are other things on screen. Fascinating.
This is a lost crusade...
AirBrian, you think it will look better than THIS?
Well, I HOPE SO, cause that pic is quite shallow.
You think the above SS is indication of a future "fantastic looking game"? Well, I would disagree there.
Maybe you think it will look better than this?
Wishful thinking.
I expect this one to be at best a FMV frame, at worst a promotional movie that will not even appear in game.
MAYBE, if the background is pre painted or at most using a preset camera like Onimusha 3, it might be real time.... but if I had to make a bet I'd put my money on it not being playable. We will see.
I could do it for him, but am lazy. Maybe others will. Is not hard at all to find PS2 screens that look better than the first one in this post.
Of course, finding one that compares with the 2nd is another story - and this discrepancy is exactly what suggests me that the latter is prerendered, so doesn't count.
AirBrian, you think it will look better than THIS?
Well, I HOPE SO, cause that pic is quite shallow.
You think the above SS is indication of a future "fantastic looking game"? Well, I would disagree there.
Maybe you think it will look better than this?
Wishful thinking.
I expect this one to be at best a FMV frame, at worst a promotional movie that will not even appear in game.
MAYBE, if the background is pre painted or at most using a preset camera like Onimusha 3, it might be real time.... but if I had to make a bet I'd put my money on it not being playable. We will see.
I could do it for him, but am lazy. Maybe others will. Is not hard at all to find PS2 screens that look better than the first one in this post.
Of course, finding one that compares with the 2nd is another story - and this discrepancy is exactly what suggests me that the latter is prerendered, so doesn't count.
Speevy said:
Well, Jak2 graphics are that good (except of course the res of this screenshot is higher, normally it's somewhere near the Zelda shots). Jak2 is 60 fps and at many instance there's alot of stuff going on.
When we'll play or get more stuff on Zelda we will see if the graphic quality will be beyond Jak2-3 and also if the games runs more stuff at the same time. So far, we just can't tell and those Zelda shots are on par with Ps2 graphics. Gamecube can push better graphics then those sorry.
(not that it would matter much for me that the new Zelda looks exactly like that)
Ar_ said:This is a lost crusade...
AirBrian, you think it will look better than THIS?
Well, I HOPE SO, cause that pic is quite shallow.
You think the above SS is indication of a future "fantastic looking game"? Well, I would disagree there.
Maybe you think it will look better than this?
Wishful thinking.
I expect this one to be at best a FMV frame, at worst a promotional movie that will not even appear in game.
MAYBE, if the background is pre painted or at most using a preset camera like Onimusha 3, it might be real time.... but if I had to make a bet I'd put my money on it not being playable. We will see.
I could do it for him, but am lazy. Maybe others will. Is not hard at all to find PS2 screens that look better than the first one in this post.
Of course, finding one that compares with the 2nd is another story - and this discrepancy is exactly what suggests me that the latter is prerendered, so doesn't count.
Dude, stop it... The game looks great. So does Pikmin 2. Who's comparing it to other things? This is Nintendo we're talking about, afterall.
Do you have any doubt about this being better than 99.9999999999% of the games released in 2005? Do you have any doubt about this being the best looking Gamecube game to date, taking full advantage of the system's hardware?
I would not bet too fast on CG graphics here. Must be Gamecube rendering. Look at the stairs: climb them with your eyes until you reach the background. It looks more like a focus effect is used.
Look also at the texture of the stairs. It's pretty blurred. I suppose there wouldn't simple textures like that in a CG scene of such a new and high budget game like this one.
Also look at the ennemies. It's pretty low polys. Look at their feet: you can see jaggies from the lack of resolution and also that the shadows are low res.
All of this and i highly doubt it's a CG scene. Those are in-game graphics baby.
Leviathan said:Take a look at this...
You're nothing but a troll. So do us all a favor and...
and...
First, I'll take what IGN fansites tell with a huge grain of salt. I still think half of those shots are FMV.
Second, you may be taking that quote too literally.
I read "real-time playable on the engine" there as meaning it is running on target hardware, instead than a simulation movie.
BUT, that doesn't exclude the movie may include sequences of FMV, just like is evident that not all of it is literally "playable" either - some pics show events in which is evident that the player is not controlling the action.
Third... well yes, what the hell am I doing here? I'm not the one who is setting himself up for possible disappointment, so why should I care? Think whatever pleases you. Is all real time and playing it will cure cancer. Sounds good now?
Hey, if is all real time is all the better. Still I'll keep my expectations safely low.
Ar_ said:
Yes, if Nintendo's track record tells you nothing else, it's that in-engine media will not be provided to cover up mediocre graphics. Open YOUR eyes.
Everything is playable. No screenshot is too impressive to be on the Cube. And you're wrong.
Look at the video of the indoor battle in that avatar-sized animation I showed you. All of that is in-game. It doesn't blow away everything on every system, not even close, but it's playable.
Alcibiades
Member
radioheadrule83 said:
yeah, honestly
Minish Cap > Maturelda
don't know if they're giving in to demands to make the game a certain way or if it's genuinely going to fit in the Zelda series, but right now I could care less, I wasn't excited when I first heard about it either...
I feel it's way too soon for a Zelda like that, they should have done a Wind Waker 2 then saved the realistic stuff for Revolution's year 2 or 3...
Wyzdom said:
I would not bet too fast on CG graphics here. Must be Gamecube rendering. Look at the stairs: climb them with your eyes until you reach the background. It looks more like a focus effect is used.
Look also at the texture of the stairs. It's pretty blurred. I suppose there wouldn't simple textures like that in a CG scene of such a new and high budget game like this one.
Also look at the ennemies. It's pretty low polys. Look at their feet: you can see jaggies from the lack of resolution and also that the shadows are low res.
All of this and i highly doubt it's a CG scene. Those are in-game graphics baby.
Yea, I don't really get the CG talk. I mean while that pic looks nice art-wise, it's not that technically impressive and still jaggy with blurry textures. I mean really it looks a scene you'd see in OOT if they upped the polygon count and textures to GC level.
The game looks very solid, but I don't see how people can get excited or even care about a game so far down the line when there are so many games on the same or higher level coming out in the next 6 months.
Stuggernaut
Grandma's Chippy
I was remembering my reaction when I first saw the footage from this at the end of the Nintendo show where it was first shown....Just thought it was time to post the video for others to remember as well....Who cares how it's done, or if it will look "next generation"...it looks good enough right now, but feel free to carry on with your bickering though
IGN
Quicktime High Res
Quicktime Low Res
Windows Media Low Res
IGN
Quicktime High Res
Quicktime Low Res
Windows Media Low Res
Alcibiades
Member
I have no idea, don't even know much about Minnish Cap (and don't care to) cause I try to avoid knowing about games before I play them...
I know it's on GBA and 2-d Zelda games have always been great, with awesome gameplay and cool music, hope the same is true here.
I was playing through some of A Link to the past, but right now I think it's time for a new handheld Zelda to take around with me...
Maturelda is having no appeal to me, maybe it will right before release, but it better be damn special if they decided to do a "mature" thing to please the pissies...
I know it's on GBA and 2-d Zelda games have always been great, with awesome gameplay and cool music, hope the same is true here.
I was playing through some of A Link to the past, but right now I think it's time for a new handheld Zelda to take around with me...
Maturelda is having no appeal to me, maybe it will right before release, but it better be damn special if they decided to do a "mature" thing to please the pissies...
I don't know anything about Minnish Cap either... when's it coming out?
OT:
Thx for the suggestions Gattsu25... I'm reading Game of Thrones right now. Very intense. Wizards First Rule series by Terry Goodkind is still the best though.
Actually, I'm thinking about getting the Star Wars Trilogy.
OT:
Thx for the suggestions Gattsu25... I'm reading Game of Thrones right now. Very intense. Wizards First Rule series by Terry Goodkind is still the best though.
jarrod said:I trust you'll be picking up AW2 to go along with that SP?
Actually, I'm thinking about getting the Star Wars Trilogy.
Until Book 7 where the author starts getting just a tad over-zealous with his philosophical and political views (go and read some interviews; he's a maniac). Some people say Book 5, but although Book 6 was quite preachy I thought it had a really good message. Ice and Fire is better though.jedimike said:
Oy, I've already got a Beatles thread. The evil power in Zelda games has always been quite subtle and mysterious though. I know there was a war in Ocarina, but you're frozen during it. I just don't like the thought of fighting huge armies roaming across the land.AniHawk said:
Yes, the character models are low poly: That has been pretty well known since this was unveiled. What makes the game look so good are the textures, really. The models themselves aren't that high poly, but the texturing is magnificent.
Oh, and I'd like to remind everyone that the Spaceworld Zelda was an FMV. This is not.
Oh, and I'd like to remind everyone that the Spaceworld Zelda was an FMV. This is not.
TheGreenGiant
Banned
Wyzdom said:
except JakII Had like that gourad-shaded textured look and yes I own it. It looks high poly but without texturing there is a certain sterility to that entire game that is just god-damn awful. It sort of works in R+C but also not. Both these titles J+D and R+C really need to go next gen cause their visuals are just not so great.
The new Zelda is in-game; anyone who downloaded the video could have told you. Bloody fucking whinigers ...
"look at this screen.. ehh ehh"
download the fucking video and stfu. It looks nice and I can't wait for more Zelda adventures. I missed playing teen link in WW.
maximum360
Member
If only he would get part 4 done already.
I'm going to pick up Baten Kaitos, Metroid Prime, RE4, and definitely Zelda next year.
I'm going to pick up Baten Kaitos, Metroid Prime, RE4, and definitely Zelda next year.