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[entremet]

Not the first time they've done it and it won't be the last either.

I wonder how many people forget Dorner.

The LAPD turned LA in a war zone tracking him down.

 

[Quixzlizx]

wait him out until fatigue forces him to make mistakes. No timer to beat. He wasn't going anywhere. I wouldn't send people charging in to collect him like some Rainbow six game if that's what you're asking.

all those hectic details in the air making everything seem much worse to the point where they say "we don't know what else to do but blow him up"...



maybe a relief team

This is a new twist on "WHY DIDN'T THE OFFICERS JUST SHOOT THE GUN OUT OF HIS HANDS?"

Maybe we can create a robot to do that.

 

[thebeeks]

The future of law enforcement.

Can I opt for Chappie instead?

Not a great movie, but he's so damn cute.

 

[SeanR1221]

wait him out until fatigue forces him to make mistakes. No timer to beat. He wasn't going anywhere. I wouldn't send people charging in to collect him like some Rainbow six game if that's what you're asking.

all those hectic details in the air making everything seem much worse to the point where they say "we don't know what else to do but blow him up"...



maybe a relief team

Lol like some kind of anime.

We shall wait him out for he shall make a grave mistake. THEN we will approach him.

Nah. Fuck this guy.

 

[BronsonLee]

I wonder how many people forget Dorner.

The LAPD turned LA in a war zone tracking him down.

That was such a goddamn clown car full of errors. They got off light for that shit

 

[Apoc29]

Aren't these robots equipped with shotguns for the purposes of manually detonating explosives? Not saying it'd be more effective than C4, but it would at least give the robot the opportunity to deliver a cool one-liner after it shot him.

 

[Breads]

I dub thee J.0.B.R.

And I don't see a problem with it.

 

[kame-sennin]

Escalating the militarization of police. What could go wrong?

It's a creepy precedent for sure but after killing multiple cops, he was pretty much guaranteed to come in feet first.

I'll worry about law enforcement drones once they're used in lesser situations that aren't the same severity as a SWAT situation.

Which is now totally going to happen.

 

[water_wendi]

I think it boils down to they decided it was an acceptable avenue to take and that they didn't really need him alive.

Ideally the police could have waited a day or more to take him alive however i think a key element you are missing is the explosives. This man that was cornered said he had explosives on him and around the city. Did the police know his identity before they got to him? If they didnt do they wait a day or more for him to pass out/suicide or do they do what is needed to get to him safely to id him to find/stop the bombs he said he had hidden around the city?

im not going to fault the police on this one.

 

[JasonUresti]

I think it boils down to they decided it was an acceptable avenue to take and that they didn't really need him alive.

Who knows what he would have said. It would have been powerful for him to be seen to face justice for all that he did, but not without its own risks. As a corpse its a lot easier to handle.

You should take your own advice and focus, and stop trying to needlessly complicate the situation.

 

[akira28]

So what's the problem?

the problem is the murkiness around the circumstances of how force was ultimately used to a fatal conclusion. It wasn't an officer defending their lives that killed him, it was a robot with a bomb attached to it.

You should take your own advice and focus, and stop trying to needlessly complicate the situation.

what did I say that needlessly complicated anything? There are plenty of reasons to want him dead. One of which is to make sure he didn't become a living figure of focus. would you like to help me focus?

 

[30yearsofhurt]

Did they think they were playing GTA III?

 

[Tagyhag]

If it meant just one more life was at risk, I'm totally fine with them using the robot.

Yes I'm not a fan of drone strikes, but I'm sure detonating robot was more precise and they made sure no one was around.

It's not the same as firing a missile into a village from a drone that's being piloted by someone hundreds of miles away.

 

[j0hnnix]

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

the problem is the murkiness around the circumstances of how force was ultimately used to a fatal conclusion. It wasn't an officer defending their lives that killed him, it was a robot with a bomb attached to it.

It was a remote control vehicle. Robot implies disconnected and autonomous. This was about as robotic as a grenade.

 

[Gaiaknight]

I'm sorry but this guy was too much of a danger to be left alive to possibly do more harm in this situation.

 

[entremet]

Escalating the militarization of police. What could go wrong?



Which is now totally going to happen.

But the escalation is two sided, mostly because of the availability of lethal firearms and prevalence of mass shootings. Not to mention the suspect was trained, had body armor and threatened to blow up targets.

That's not a simple street criminal.

This escalation isn't isolated.

 

[Yarbskoo]

I guess the Metal Gear Mk. II wasn't ready for deployment yet.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Did they think they were playing GTA III?

no, BF3

 

[akira28]

It was a remote control vehicle. Robot implies disconnected and autonomous. This was about as robotic as a grenade.

dither over the word robot if that's what bothers you. What bothers me is remote controlled bomb.

 

[kame-sennin]

I would rather the police didn't use robots with bombs to kill suspects. It will be used disproportionately against non-white people.

They are pulled over more, arrested more, tasered and beaten more, shot more, and the SWAT team is called in on them more.

It is very disturbing to me that so many people want to rubber stamp this when it seems clear who is actually going to end up being blown up by robots.

.

I think him bluffing that he was going to detonate remote bombs was what probably did him in.

Thankfully it was a bluff, but the police took him seriously.

"I planted bombs around the city, kill me so they will never be found".

But the escalation is two sided, mostly because of the availability of lethal firearms and prevalence of mass shootings.

This escalation isn't isolated.

Bullshit.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

dither over the word robot if that's what bothers you. What bothers me is remote controlled bomb.

You haven't made a compelling argument as to why it's any different morally from a bullet.

 

[entremet]

.



"I planted bombs around the city, kill me so they will never be found".

Bullshit.

I'm talking about this specific instance, where near a dozen cops were shot. I do agree there has been an escalation overall. That's unfortunate. I agree.

 

[Kin5290]

I would rather the police didn't use robots with bombs to kill suspects. It will be used disproportionately against non-white people.

It is unlikely to be widely used, regardless. Not because of morals or handwringing, but because these EOD robots cost upwards of $100k a piece.

the problem is the murkiness around the circumstances of how force was ultimately used to a fatal conclusion. It wasn't an officer defending their lives that killed him, it was a robot with a bomb attached to it.

With this logic, police snipers would also be bad, as they shoot suspects from ranges where an armed suspect would not typically be able to engage them from.

 

[TheJLC]

.



"I planted bombs around the city, kill me so they will never be found".

.

They don't need him alive to find the possible bombs.

 

[akira28]

You haven't made a compelling argument as to why it's any different morally from a bullet.

morally? who cares about moral arguments. what about ethically? how about legally? I'm not here to compel anyone, if you missed my first post btw.

With this logic, police snipers would also be bad, as they shoot suspects from ranges where an armed suspect would not typically be able to engage them from.

And they usually don't tell snipers to take customers out as soon as they see them. Nothing wrong with snipers. They are usually used under tight control and in places that aren't America they even try to capture criminals without having the snipers take them down except as a last resort.

This isn't about snipers.

 

[Eidan]

would of been an awkward ending if he blew up

This hurts me.

 

[Chezzymann]

if people don't think there's something wrong with sending in basically a remote control toy with a bomb strapped to it, in to blow up a cornered criminal...*shrug*

"Cornered" criminal, are you trying to make him sympathetic? He needed to die in that situation as there was no other way to end the standoff without risking lives. He allegedly had explosives and was ready to arm them. He killed 5 cops already. Negotations weren't working. He had a gas mask on. He knew what he was doing. If they didn't stop the standoff immediately more people could die, which is exactly what he wanted.

 

[akira28]

"Cornered" criminal, are you trying to make him sympathetic?

are you trying to make him less than human?

His need to die is entirely subjective.

 

[Badgerst3]

Suspect wore body armor as FYI.

He killed 5 officers, wounded nearly a dozen.

He continued to shoot and never stood down despite 4 hours of engagement.

He bluffed that he had the ability to detonate remote explosives. A bluff the Dallas PD didn't take lightly obviously.

I'm fine with it.

If you're gonna escalate to that degree, you better expect an opposing force to do the same.

100% agree. Heartbreaking killings of officers. Ends justify the means here.

 

[Sub_Level]

are you trying to make him less than human?

He did that all on his own.

 

[Chezzymann]

are you trying to make him less than human?

His need to die is entirely subjective.

No, it wasn't as there was no other option to stop the situation without risking more lives.

 

[Fat4all]

are you trying to make him less than human?

His need to die is entirely subjective.

Are you implying that the choice they made was made lightly?

 

[DarkKyo]

are you trying to make him less than human?

His need to die is entirely subjective.

lol wtf is this shit? mass shooter defense force?

 

[akira28]

He did that all on his own.

Well that's not for an officer of the law to decide. Or a robot.

Are you implying that the choice they made was made lightly?

They probably tossed a coin, what kind of question is this? And please pose more.

lol wtf is this shit? mass shooter defense force?

you got it baby. do not blow up with bombs = defend this man

 

[kaname-san]

Why didn't they put the bomb on a drone instead? Seems like it would be cheaper and faster.

 

[dangeraaron10]

are you trying to make him less than human?

His need to die is entirely subjective.

He became less than human when he struck out to kill innocent people.

Mass shooter defense force. I've seen it all.

 

[water_wendi]

Well that's not for an officer of the law to decide. Or a robot.

Ending the life of a madman who was still armed and threatened to have bombs on himself and all around the city sounds like the right call with the publics safety in mind.

edit: and its not like the police did not give him ample chance to surrender. This is nothing like say a Dorner situation where they burned an ex-cop alive. They could have waited Dorner out. He had no hostages. He was finished but they killed him anyway.

 

[akira28]

He became less than human when he struck out to kill innocent people.

Mass shooter defense force. I've seen it all.

are you paying attention? you ain't seen nothin yet.

 

[BlazinSkatinAxel]

Was it this Robot?

 

[DarkKyo]

you got it baby. do not blow up with bombs = defend this man

Your reasoning for not blowing him up is dumb. How else can they take him out without risking more lives? If you kill others and prove you're an active and extremely dangerous threat, you forfeit the right to not be killed as soon as possible in inventive and unusual ways.

 

[Oppo]

saw a lot of posts/tweets saying "no, the cops don't have robot sucide bombers" but... well... they do now.

 

[Breads]

you got it baby. do not blow up with bombs = defend this man

Sorry but...

are you trying to make him less than human?

His need to die is entirely subjective.

if people don't think there's something wrong with sending in basically a remote control toy with a bomb strapped to it, in to blow up a cornered criminal...*shrug*

I don't think it really is if you stay focused.

are you paying attention? you ain't seen nothin yet.

... surely you can understand how you left room for interpretation. You aren't being very clear with all of your points.

 

[BronsonLee]

The delivery mechanism is the only thing that should raise an eyebrow.

 

[akira28]

I guess it depends on interpretation.

defending the dead, lol.

 

[Vidal]

Rambo Roomba here to sweep the streets of dirty criminals.

 

[Breads]

I guess it depends on interpretation.

defending the dead, lol.

So you're defending the dead. Which in this case is a mass murderer who was killed in the middle of their rampage. Am I correct or did I misinterpret or mischaracterize this?

 

[DarkKyo]

I guess it depends on interpretation.

defending the dead, lol.

So you agree that he had to die ASAP without putting anyone else at risk, right?

What difference does it make how it's done if it saved lives? Please explain because I'm struggling to see the problem here.

 

[BadRamen]

The future: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB6fUeXqXgA

(Law Abiding Citizen spoilers)

 

[akira28]

So you're defending the dead. Which in this case is a mass murderer who was killed in the middle of their rampage. Am I correct or did I misinterpret or mischaracterize this?

you are incorrect. I am not defending anything, but I am unsurprised that this is what some look for or draw out.