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In An Apparent First, Police Used A Robot To Kill
- Thread starter Septimus Prime
- Start date
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Livingskeletons
If I pulled that off, would you die?
A heart attack in 40 seconds.
God Dayumm
Banned
Nice. One day robots will replace cops and unfair shootings will diminish because robots have no racial prejudices.
How is it hypocritical? Explain?
Taking risks and "going in" is a part of the job description, the fact that they want to handle the situation like they were marines in Afghanistan is extremely disturbing.
Thank god I'm not American.
Oppo
Member
your tapdancing here is... really... odd
You don't know anything about me to make such assumptions. All I know about you is that you aren't worth arguing with because your views are skewed by emotion, tainted with prejudice, and lack basic common sense for public welfare.
Lol, nice. If only.
crash into me then. I'm defending the shooter? take on me.
do you know enough about me to make those assumptions?
7DollarHagane
Banned
Bomb squads across the country are issued explosives to detonate other explosive devices safely.
People forget that the suspect here threatened to have other ied devices set up in the garage. They also would likely have detonated something on his body just in case there was a explosive vest under the body armor, even if they had been able to take him down with a weapon.
JHoNNy1OoO
Member
Snipers are trained, there are protocols and the practice has been used for decades. If the public didn't want law enforcement to use that tactic there has been plenty of time to debate it in public. There is no training for what just occurred, there are no protocols on when to send in a robot to blow up a suspect/criminal/mass murderer/terrorist/serial killer whatever term you want to use.
This is unprecedented and people need to ask themselves seriously, if you are ok with police now having the green light to roll up to people with explosives on a robot to kill them. It is a debate that needs to be made in the public sphere because it is not the same as just sniping someone. The aftermath might be the same but the procedure is far from.
TacticalHotdog
Member
Bomb disposal robots normally use a small explosive charge for controlled detonations of explosives. Since it's a plastic explosive, all you have to do is stick more on it to make it a bigger, lethal explosion. Shit's like clay.
I imagine that this was a last minute improvisation since they didn't want to risk any more lives to flush out a cornerned criminal after he had already shot up at least a dozen other officers. They made a gamble, and in this case it worked out well and no one else was hurt.
Why do you think law enforcement has expanded their firepower? Maybe it has to do with the fact that civilians have? The man was using a high powered semi automatic rifle and body armor. The Orlando shooter used an assault rifle. Of course the police are going to up their guns. You saying the police shouldn't is hypocritical to being a proponent to the second amendment. Or, at the very least, ironic to what you've argued before.
I understand the worries about precedent. But this was a very, very unique situation. They had a bomb disposal robot on hand because of the bomb threats. It wasn't as if they went down to the station and rigged up a bomb willy nilly. The bomb disposal robots have explosives for the purpose of controlled detonation. They used it in a manner that hadn't been used before, but considering he said he was strapped with explosives, I can understand the decision.
As I said, I honestly doubt this is going to lead to police chucking bombs at car thieves and drug dealers. No one has given police the green light for it. They used tools they had on hand during a difficult, scary, and very unique situation.
I am not sure I comfortable with the thought that police officers should commit suicide in instances like this when other options are available. They aren't paid enough for that.
MrMephistoX
Gold Member
You have 30 seconds to comply! Seriously though I think eventually a robotic police force could be a good thing: a bullet proof robot could disable a criminal while taking fire and not let emotion take over.The future of law enforcement.
Indeed, it would be safe to assume that if he had made a bomb threat there was a possibility of him being strapped with one as well.
Based on your performance in this thread, absolutely.
I agree 100% that blowing up any random bank robber or jaywalker, and yes, of course even murderers that comply and are not an active, blatant threat would be a complete abortion of justice. I don't think there is a single person with common sense who would not agree with this.
That's not what this was. If you can't see that you are reaching hardcore to make this about something more than ending an ongoing killing spree then you are either completely naive or blatantly skewed by some intense dislike of authority.
Sounds like it deserves a Padme/R2D2 style pat on the head from someone.
I'd be morbidly curious to see what video the robot captured. I wonder if the guy was shooting at it or did anything to try to get rid of the bomb.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
The first time it happens is precisely the time when it needs to be examined and discussed. Police's bomb squads aren't issued explosives and EOD robots with the intent to kill people. Personally I don't trust police departments to say this is a one-off occasion and not think of it again. This is why it's important to have oversight on this to protect both citizens and police from abuse.
Chopper Dave
Member
I can certainly respect people's uneasiness about police using high explosives as a weapon. It brings an intense look of warfare to an institution that all too often misuses the more traditional tools they're equipped with. This is an extreme case though and we justifiably would have used force that guaranteed a lethal outcome regardless.
Can you imagine how alien the situation looked to the shooter? Is that something anyone would expect? The robot being used purely as a weapon is strange enough. DId he know he was going to be blown up by the police just before it happened? Even if his expectations were based on action movies the scene would seem so surreal
Can you imagine how alien the situation looked to the shooter? Is that something anyone would expect? The robot being used purely as a weapon is strange enough. DId he know he was going to be blown up by the police just before it happened? Even if his expectations were based on action movies the scene would seem so surreal
well thanks for your opinion. i'll pin in to the fridge next to all your others, they're so adorable.
this wasn't an argument. I wanted to post some thoughts and read some thoughts and even though your thoughts were not worth very much to me, I still enjoyed the exchange, mostly with others.
I tend to be more naively hopeful than some I guess.
If it becomes a precedent that is horrible, you can quote and shame me on that later date, I'll take my lumps.JHoNNy1OoO
Member
You keep saying unique and all the Police Chief cared about was ending the standoff without putting his officers in any more danger. Every single standoff situation(no matter how big or small) has officers in danger. So again what is the protocol going to be? Nobody knows and it is important that people aren't okay with this until there are strict guidelines.
This is how powers are expanded without passing a single law or having people vote. Precedents are set in "unique" situations and when people don't complain or question it, then that "unique" situation gets expanded to encompass a ton of situations.
Firepower for civilians have practically been the same for the past 90 some years now. Why does the police feel like using explosives was needed for the first time?
7DollarHagane
Banned
There certainly needs to be guidelines for the use of explosives in situations where an armed and dangerous suspect is holed up and officers are likely to be killed or harmed by taking direct action.
This is really no different than using one of those big armored swat vans to break down a wall in a house or building or a flash grenade and then shooting the suspect.
It's all just technology that enables the end goal, use of lethal force on a suspect using the same against civilians and law enforcement.
This is really no different than using one of those big armored swat vans to break down a wall in a house or building or a flash grenade and then shooting the suspect.
It's all just technology that enables the end goal, use of lethal force on a suspect using the same against civilians and law enforcement.
As I said above, I don't think anyone is going to be okay with police chucking bombs at bank robbers and stuff. In this situation, I can see and understand why they made that decision. If the situation were anything other than it was, I would be questioning it. That is why I was saying 'unique'.
If he had gotten away, went home, and the police bombed his house, yeah, that'd be fucked up.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
I'm with you on one level but the reality is robots are expensive. For that reason alonr, I doubt this will be common place anytime soon.
Orniletter
Banned
Crying about police-militarization when you are, at the same time, more than OK with the general public being armed to the teeth is extremely hypocritical.
MarioHead3
Banned
If that robot really is effectively a small tank, I don't see how the police could even reasonably use this whenever they wanted. Are they all just going to carry these around in their cars or something? I mean, a gun they can literally just carry around with them and it's pretty much just as deadly. This, not so much as far as I can tell. Plus it seems like it would prohibitively expensive.
Of course, someone can correct me if I'm totally off (which I often am).
Of course, someone can correct me if I'm totally off (which I often am).
7DollarHagane
Banned
Should swat teams not be allowed to access security cameras to establish entry routes to eliminate a suspect? Should high powered long rifles not be allowed? Should flash grenades or gas that blinds and disorients the suspect before death not be allowed?
I don't know what the issue is, its unfair to the suspect that's holed up in an extremely dangerous position for those officers?
If we could send in a humanoid drone that incapacitates the target with a high voltage shock I'd be all for it.
You retaliate with the maturity level of a petulant child and offer nothing in terms of a real conversation. That much was apparent in the first page, but it's so bad that it looks like you're just trying to be a troll. It's so sad that this is actually who you are as a person.
Well, there's nothing else to say here. To anyone else looking to continue with this fool, further engagement is clearly not worth your time.
Valkyr1983
Banned
Exactly
Creating controversy where none exists. 5 cops killed already, no sense risking more. This terrorist gave up his right to a fair trial by not surrendering
Explain to me how America managed to go past almost a 100 years without doing this stuff?
The American populace is not more heavily armed than before, and technology have moved a lot in regards to defense as well.
In the 1920's/1930's your average cop had no bulletproof vests at all, and civilians were at the time armed with fully automatic weapons, yet we didn't see them use explosives.
Moving towards police militarization is moving towards a police state.
Last time I saw police with explosives was by the Afghan police, let that sit for a while.
wesleyshark
Banned
Absolutely nothing wrong with the methods used to take this fucker out. I'm okay with it.
Can you contribute to the thread anymore?
Wrong. Over the years laws have been created to keep certain automatic and fully automatic weapons out of the hands of civilians. Here's a list. If the Federal Assault weapons ban had been renewed we may have not tragedies of the past few months. The police for sure wouldn't need to become militarized.
Maybe, but Kyo might have to get over it. And sign all those nice words to my left asscheek.
JHoNNy1OoO
Member
There are protocols and guidelines and training for all you have described. There is nothing about law enforcement using explosives on a remote device to kill a suspect.
I'm going to wait till the entire story is out about how this all went down. My gut tells me that the first use of that robot was to roll up in there and blow him up. And that bothers the absolute fuck out of me. I hope I'm wrong.
MarioHead3
Banned
I'm quite certain this was used as a last resort. It seems like taking him in alive wasn't an option.
You'd have to be ignorant of how firearms function on a base level to make this statement.
Knowing that I'm not going to bother further with you.
wesleyshark
Banned
Pretty sure taking him out fixed the problem right then and there.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
This is good. I'm honestly surprised out police haven't done it sooner.
MarioHead3
Banned
These were rather insane circumstances, to be fair.
Orniletter
Banned
How do you not understand that this is in direct response to the US public owning boatloads of dealy weaponry and zero sensible gunlaws.
Edit. Just sack this conversation. There is no getting through to gun-nutjobs.
essentially I agree but this is planet Earth you're standing on. Death has been viewed as the solution to a lot of our problems for a long time.
7DollarHagane
Banned
Which police officer would you rather have entered a wide open concrete parking structure with this armed killer? Or would you prefer to lead this honorable charge you propose? This after 4 hours of attempted negotiation and attempted de-escalation and the bullets are still flying.
Im happy that a means was found to end this situation without more death. The suspects demeanor was such that he wasn't leaving alive. He would have killed any cops he could until he was shot dead.
There are some people in this thread so disconnected from reality or any common sense. It's really upsetting.
"If we let the police blow up a murderous psychopath who has spent a day being actively lethal and violent, we'll eventually have Predator drones leveling buildings to take out drug dealers" is about as logical of a slippery slope as "If we let gay people marry, soon people will be marrying their dogs."
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