Indiana to allow schools to replace teaching cursive with typing
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AbsoluteZero said:
It's also so much easier for it to come out looking horribly too. I almost never use it (now that I'm out of school) because of that. I can print faster and it looks so much better. For me to do a decent job in cursive, for it to be legible, just takes to much time. In college I had to stop trying because I simply couldn't take notes fast enough and even when I could they were hard to read later on. I'll sign my name in cursive but only because I can take my time doing it.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Cursive writing is incredibly outdated.
There's absolutely no point in teaching it, it's a relic of the past not worth the effort.
There's absolutely no point in teaching it, it's a relic of the past not worth the effort.
scar tissue
Banned
America weirds me out...you actually have writing classes for people above the age of 10?
Everyone here (Austria) can write cursive at the age of 9-10. It's also incredibly easy.
Never had a writing class in middle school.
Also, many people use cursive when they take notes at university.
How else would you write down stuff, assuming you don't have a laptop?
Everyone here (Austria) can write cursive at the age of 9-10. It's also incredibly easy.
Never had a writing class in middle school.
Also, many people use cursive when they take notes at university.
How else would you write down stuff, assuming you don't have a laptop?
benjipwns
Banned
I think there may be a disconnect in language here. If you say "writing class" to an American, and maybe I'm wrong, but they think of an English class where you do lots of writing (I.E. putting words on paper) but you don't have to "write" (I.E. in cursive) especially today where you're expect to type papers and even before most exams were done with print.scar tissue said:
Most Americans have cursive or "writing" lessons in grades 2-4 (ages 7-9 maybe) and then never use it again, and are often instead encouraged to print while writing in hand in higher grades and even more encouraged to type things when possible. (So the teachers/professors can read it.)
As for notes, shorthand predominates. And laptops are pretty much standard at the college level now.
balladofwindfishes
Member
nobody can read cursivemagichans said:
It might make you look fancy, but it certainly isn't practical. Cursive breaks like every typographical standard ever.
malingenie
Member
Such a divisive topic, eh?
I think some people reason that losing these classic subjects will mean a deterioration of our society.
I definitely believe in pragmatism, teach people to do what they need to. Even with that worldview, I seek some classical subject matters for curiosity and self education. Let people decide what to learn besides the basic skills (typing included). That way we don't have classrooms of people who hate being there and we don't have people leaving school because they feel it is worthless.
I know that this will do poorly to create what is perceived as an 'intelligent, well rounded man' but I think that knowing Chaucer does not a great person make.
I am speaking as someone who had a very classical education. Right now we need to create skilled people. We have enough leisure time to delve in other pursuits on our own.
My thoughts on the matter solidified when the president of Venezuela wanted to increase history teaching and decrease computer teaching. Stagnation on a starving country.
I think some people reason that losing these classic subjects will mean a deterioration of our society.
I definitely believe in pragmatism, teach people to do what they need to. Even with that worldview, I seek some classical subject matters for curiosity and self education. Let people decide what to learn besides the basic skills (typing included). That way we don't have classrooms of people who hate being there and we don't have people leaving school because they feel it is worthless.
I know that this will do poorly to create what is perceived as an 'intelligent, well rounded man' but I think that knowing Chaucer does not a great person make.
I am speaking as someone who had a very classical education. Right now we need to create skilled people. We have enough leisure time to delve in other pursuits on our own.
My thoughts on the matter solidified when the president of Venezuela wanted to increase history teaching and decrease computer teaching. Stagnation on a starving country.
dinazimmerman
Incurious Bastard
scar tissue said:
I'm from the US. Cursive was taught in third grade at my school and never taught again in any subsequent grade. Third graders are usually 8-9 yrs. old. Maybe older/younger people (I'm 20) had different experiences.
magichans said:
How the hell does something every kid has to learn by the age of 8 make you seem more educated? It's not like you can drop out of school at the age of 5. I'm sure there was a time when only the wealthy wrote in cursive but that is no longer the case.
Cursive can look nice but it requires taking the time to do it. Most people are scribbling though. Noone's going to hand write out the Declaration of Independence in the future, nor is any Executive Assistant (secretary) going to be hired for her incredible cursive scrawl. It's not a necessary skill for most of the population.
If they're going to stop teaching cursive, they could at the very least teach short hand :/mclem said:
I'm of the position that they should still be teaching cursive, though. There's going to be an entire generation of kids who can't read shitty doctor handwriting if they do this.
Alx
Member
MC Safety said:
From what I understand, the problem is that Americans do it backwards : they teach kids print by default, and try to teach them cursive later.
Kids here learn to write in cursive first, it's the "normal" writing method. But since they are always exposed to print writing through books and other media, they naturally learn print by themselves. So there's no mini-trauma of trying to teach them a new way of writing years after they got used to the first one.
I also think that there are benefits to cursive, others than sheer writing functionality. There is an old saying here that states "if you can write, then you can draw". The smooth shapes you're used to draw in cursive are actually a good exercise for hand control, more so than sticks and circles. That's another thing that you should learn as young as possible.
I don't know what it's like in Europe, but in America cursive only refers to the script on the right. The left is called print (or normal, whatever) script, and Indiana isn't touching that. It's only cutting the shit on the right, which most people don't use after they reach middle school.
DeathIsTheEnd
Member
In the UK I've always heard it referred to as joined-up writing. Virtually everyone that I've seen does it.tiff said:
I don't know what it's like in Europe, but in America cursive only refers to the script on the right. The left is called print (or normal, whatever) script, and Indiana isn't touching that. It's only cutting the shit on the right, which most people don't use after they reach middle school.
No one bothers to learn cursive and remember, that's how fyi. Only my teachers could read my writing in high school.SyNapSe said:
and scribbling? you might be talking about those signatures people sign, otherwise i don't know. It isn't necessary but helps people who take the time to learn it and remember it. Think about it, if you don't know cursive, a good part of the world is going to be closed to you. You won't be able to read any cursive documents at all. And your handwriting will suck.
The Albatross
Member
Good. I think that there is still a value in learning it, just because you'd be so closed off to major chunks of Western civilization without it. To read something in the original way that it was written, especially if you really identify with the message, can be a powerful thing. I encourage anybody to go to the "Newseum" in Washington DC just for an example of this... To see original reproductions of hand-written Summa's was pretty powerful for me, just knowing that an actual monk spent most of his life transcribing that by candle-light, long into the night, some 700 years ago... And there it was.
I've honestly forgotten how to write in cursive. I sort of wonder whether in 50 to 100 years people will look at cursive handwriting the same that we may look at early American print, with their weird typographic standards ("Maffachusetts" -- double F-like character when S's appeared in the middle of words)
I've honestly forgotten how to write in cursive. I sort of wonder whether in 50 to 100 years people will look at cursive handwriting the same that we may look at early American print, with their weird typographic standards ("Maffachusetts" -- double F-like character when S's appeared in the middle of words)
And people actually had problems with this writing method? Damn, I would have been ashamed going home and telling mom and dad that I do not wanna or I could not learn this. They would sit with me until I figured it out.
Guess nowadays it is more important to integrate children to their respective, parent/teacher-denying Facebook circles so they can arrange meetings and parties more efficiently, at a younger age.
Boy, this is really is an interesting age to live in.
Guess nowadays it is more important to integrate children to their respective, parent/teacher-denying Facebook circles so they can arrange meetings and parties more efficiently, at a younger age.
Boy, this is really is an interesting age to live in.
That's actually not exclusive to American script at all. It's the long s or ∫, used in the middle of words and it's where we get the integral symbol. It's also not entirely like an "f" because the strike, when it's there, only goes to the line, not through it.The Albatross said:
Fun fact: ∫ + s = ß
I remember my teachers trying to scare everyone into learning cursive by saying in the higher grades cursive was mandatory for everything you did. I never used it beyond 5th grade, and at this point I forgot most of the letters. When I sign something it's just R~~~ F~~~ because that's really all you need. Sounds like a good change.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Sorry, but kids need to be learning practical skills.
Cursive isn't one of them. They should be able to be proficient in reading cursive, sure. But no one needs to write that stuff anymore.
The days where ones intellect was judged based off of the artistry contained within their cursive is long gone.
To sign my name I just carefully draw the first letter and then let my hand spaz about however I feel for the rest.
Hasn't failed me once...
Cursive isn't one of them. They should be able to be proficient in reading cursive, sure. But no one needs to write that stuff anymore.
The days where ones intellect was judged based off of the artistry contained within their cursive is long gone.
To sign my name I just carefully draw the first letter and then let my hand spaz about however I feel for the rest.
Hasn't failed me once...
I'm all for getting rid of cursive. After spending so much time on it in early elementary school, I never used it for anything other than signing my name and valedictions on cards. Otherwise it was a complete waste of time. Teachers never wanted us to use it, and I was typing everything up since 5th grade (circa '95). Typing is way more important.
I swear, the main reason it's still taught is that the previous generation always wants to make the next one do it just because they did. 'I had to do that shit, so should they!'
I swear, the main reason it's still taught is that the previous generation always wants to make the next one do it just because they did. 'I had to do that shit, so should they!'
GoldenEye 007
Member
Someone already tried a math analogy and failed miserably in this thread. And they are being taught to write, just not in cursive.SneakyStephan said:
Cursive is archaic and relies on teacher lies for it to be propagated.
Heh, I haven't used Print since I learned to write in cursive. I can also read people's cursive a hell of a lot better than their print. I also prefer to write instead of typing.
Silly ass Indiana. Why do I live here? :/
Cursive is an easy way to check someone's personality:
I'm apparently pretty fucking crazy.
Silly ass Indiana. Why do I live here? :/
Cursive is an easy way to check someone's personality:
I'm apparently pretty fucking crazy.
Deified Data
Banned
At my school, they forced us to learn cursive in middle school and forced us to stop in high school. Literally, they discouraged you from writing in cursive in the 9th grade, for the sake of clarity. I'm sure there are probably better things to be teaching children than something they'll be forced to unlearn later in life.
Alx
Member
benjipwns said:
The only issue with handwriting when you're left-handed is that your hand will wipe the ink on the words you just wrote. Most people deal with it by putting their hand on the top or the bottom of the page, instead of the side. But it's less of a problem if you use a ballpoint pen. The shape of the letters makes no difference, anyway.
@Irish : wow, that's a terrible handwriting indeed.
Here's what a text written by a regular kid is supposed to look like :
Alx said:@Irish : wow, that's a terrible handwriting indeed.
My print is actually a million times harder to read because of the weird ass spacing and different sized letters. It always ends up looking like I was in the process of making a ransom note with letters cut from different magazine headings.
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
Thank god.
Aside from signatures that shit is as worthless as can be. Good fucking riddance.
Aside from signatures that shit is as worthless as can be. Good fucking riddance.
SystemShock2
Member
In my middle school we had typing practice in a computer ed class, which was actually really useful, but we also learned cursive, which I think has a certain charm to it, and it's is all I use. I feel like writing a letter to someone in manuscript does not have the same feel to it.
Alx said:@Irish : wow, that's a terrible handwriting indeed.
Here's what a text written by a regular kid is supposed to look like :
God, this reminds me of all the teachers that wanted us to write in pen and not pencil. And all the stupid rules required to correct mistakes.
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