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Indie Game Development Discussion Thread | Of Being Professionally Poor

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Moobabe

Member
This thread is amazing! Having talked with a couple of people I know at a studio (and then watching Indie Game: The Movie) I thought I'd give this whole 'make a game' thing a shot!

This has probably been asked a million and one times but; where should I start? I have 0 experience but a decent amount of time to commit to learning something - but I don't know which utility is best. I suppose something free that I can learn with and mess around on.

Also all the work in here is incredible - hope to be able to post something one day!
 

Jobbs

Banned
It's great, but that eye flashing is way too rapid for me. I guess if it's only meant to be an indicator of low health it's okay?

the eye glow layer got doubled accidently before this export. it's a bit more subtle.

that said, it's all designed with it in mind that I'll have some overlays running over it. It'll take more tweaking but my goal is to maintain the thick atmosphere and weathered look of the game from before, translated onto the big screen.

This has probably been asked a million and one times but; where should I start? I have 0 experience but a decent amount of time to commit to learning something - but I don't know which utility is best. I suppose something free that I can learn with and mess around on.

What's your particular aptitude? are you math minded or more of an artist or what? I got started in all of this a couple years ago, before which point I knew almost nothing about how to make games. Prior to that I drew comic books and did graphics and art in general. So I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to prepare game art and sprites and tilesets and stuff, and after a few failed collaborations I picked up Stencyl (a game development suite that includes a tile editor and its own design "language" which simplifies and visualizes programming) which allowed me to make certain kinds of games on my own as well as introduced me to programming concepts -- using variables to build logic and store data is simpler in stencyl than programming by hand, but it's all the same basic idea. So learning Stencyl was approachable and also taught me a lot about game development in general.
 

Moobabe

Member
What's your particular aptitude? are you math minded or more of an artist or what? I got started in all of this a couple years ago, before which point I knew almost nothing about how to make games. Prior to that I drew comic books and did graphics and art in general. So I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to prepare game art and sprites and tilesets and stuff, and after a few failed collaborations I picked up Stencyl (a game development suite that includes a tile editor and its own design "language" which simplifies and visualizes programming) which allowed me to make certain kinds of games on my own as well as introduced me to programming concepts -- using variables to build logic and store data is simpler in stencyl than programming by hand, but it's all the same basic idea. So learning Stencyl was approachable and also taught me a lot about game development in general.

I'd say I'm more math minded. It's astonishing to me to think you've only been working 2 years or so, GS looks amazing. I've had a couple of people suggest Game Maker Studio to me (which is helpful because it's free) and RPG Maker. I don't have much artistic skill to speak of though... Like any at all :p
 

Jobbs

Banned
I'd say I'm more math minded. It's astonishing to me to think you've only been working 2 years or so, GS looks amazing. I've had a couple of people suggest Game Maker Studio to me (which is helpful because it's free) and RPG Maker. I don't have much artistic skill to speak of though... Like any at all :p

If you have an aptitude for math and critical thinking and problem solving, then you would probably be well suited to learn how to program. I'm not an expert on programming languages and someone else would be better qualified to tell you where to start. I do know a lot of people who started with actionscript, though.

Game Maker is another good option. Stencyl, Game Maker, and Construct 2 are all rather good programs. Of those, Stencyl is likely the easiest and most approachable to actually learn to use in a meaningful way, but is also less powerful. C2 is probably the best balance -- C2 has some odd omissions (there's absolutely no practical way to build and place a tileset in C2 without using external programs) but this can be forgiven due to how well it works and how many features it does have. After using Stencyl for a long time, I tinkered with C2 and was impressed by its features -- I am definitely interested in using this to make a solo project at some point in the future, perhaps after Ghost Song is done. Collaborating with specialized people can yield powerful results, but there's also a lot to be said for the freedoms granted by solo development -- No need to communicate ideas, you are free to tinker and make every decision on the fly.

and thanks -- it's probably longer than 2 years. It was, I think, late 2010 when I started taking great interest in game development. *That said*, like many people, I've had dreams of developing games since I was a kid playing NES and SNES. I just never actually tried to do it until relatively recently.
 

Moobabe

Member
If you have an aptitude for math and critical thinking and problem solving, then you would probably be well suited to learn how to program. I'm not an expert on programming languages and someone else would be better qualified to tell you where to start. I do know a lot of people who started with actionscript, though.

Game Maker is another good option. Stencyl, Game Maker, and C2 are all rather good programs. Of those, Stencyl is likely the easiest and most approachable to actually learn to use in a meaningful way, but is also less powerful. C2 is probably the best balance -- C2 has some odd omissions (there's absolutely no practical way to build and place a tileset in C2 without using external programs) but this can be forgiven due to how well it works and how many features it does have. After using Stencyl for a long time, I tinkered with C2 and was impressed with its features -- I am definitely interested in using this to make a solo project at some point in the future, perhaps after Ghost Song is done.

and thanks -- it's probably longer than 2 years. It was, I think, late 2010 when I started taking great interest in game development. *That said*, like many people, I've had dreams of developing games since I was a kid playing NES and SNES. I just never actually tried to do it until relatively recently.

How long would you say it took you from knowing nothing to having a little playable prototype?

I've downloaded Game Maker and I'm already staggered at the number of options in the menus! I'll check out Stencyl too and check out some Youtube tutorials of both and see where I'm at. This is going to be one hell of a learning process.
 

Jobbs

Banned
How long would you say it took you from knowing nothing to having a little playable prototype?

I've downloaded Game Maker and I'm already staggered at the number of options in the menus! I'll check out Stencyl too and check out some Youtube tutorials of both and see where I'm at. This is going to be one hell of a learning process.

I'm very bad at math and learning, I'm ADD and scatterbrained -- I'm a giant idiot, and after some persistence with Stencyl, at some point it just clicked and I really started to understand how logic is built in games. If I can do that then probably anyone can.

I learned by following these particular tutorials. At this point the version of Stencyl used for these tutorials is not up to date, but most the information and concepts apply. I started making prototypes the same day after I finished these tutorials.

During the course of learning I made many different kinds of prototypes before coming up with Ghost Song.

- I made a shmup prototype (there's a lot of enemies and a boss at the end, just wait for them to come): http://www.stencyl.com/game/play/21643 (mouse controls)
- I made a blaster master style prototype where you can get in and out of a mech (arrows, z, x, space to mount/dismount): http://www.stencyl.com/game/play/19075
- I made this prototype for some kind of game where I felt there was something there but I never sorted it out. http://www.stencyl.com/game/play/14997 ASWD move the camera, use the mouse and click to blow the characters around. You can also sorta swipe them to get them moving. The idea for what the "game" is here is still pretty vague, I just liked the idea of blowing a ton of little dudes around.

And many others.

Now, as I said, I still think Stencyl is the least powerful of the programs I mentioned -- But the way you implement logic, the visual editor, is absolutely brilliant and, in my opinion, superior from a user standpoint to any other such program. The problem is the thing is a bit underpowered in its export options and general performance if you make visually intense games, and it lacks some flashy features like built in particle effects. I also have grown to dislike SWF, which Stencyl seems to be primarily built for exporting to. Nothing Stencyl outputs properly utilizes GPU so your performance and features are just less across the board. By comparison, C2 features all kinds of shaders and GPU enhancements and particle effects and other toys.

All the stuff I learned in Stencyl made it easier to get into C2. The same concepts apply, it's just a matter of figuring out how C2 wants you to interact with it. So -- Even if you don't plan to stay with Stencyl forever, I think there's value in learning it because it's so approachable, and those concepts you learn are universal.
 

Moobabe

Member
I'm well on the way! I made the clown game from the tutorial in Game Maker - it bugs out occasionally and the little clown dude disappears, and I missed the "click" sound the first time around. But I managed to work out how to go back and retrospectively add it to the object.

Huzzah!
 

JulianImp

Member
So, I got a reply from Nintendo, and it seems like I won't be getting approved as an authorized developer anytime soon, mostly because I'm at a country they currently aren't supporting with their initiative.

I did ask them about Sabarasa, a small local company that was accepted as a developer (but as an established company, not some random guy trying to apply like me), so I'll see if they can answer if I'd be let in if I were to fit some different criteria. At least their reply came a lot faster than what I had expected (took them under a month, even), but it could've been simply because they didn't have to fill any paperwork with me like they probably would for people who were nearly ready to be accepted.

I'm still hoping they'll get to change their policy soon, since I'd be all over developing for WiiU if they'd just give me a chance.
 

razu

Member
I was about to proudly announce that today Snails surpassed 100K downloads on Windows Phone, and then I saw your post.
92K downloads in a day?
Wow...

Yeah, but only because it was featured! And totally free, no IAPs, no ads.. totally free game!

Looking at the numbers, 100K puts you in an elite group of people who've had more than zero downloads! That's good going man.
 

razu

Member
This thread is amazing! Having talked with a couple of people I know at a studio (and then watching Indie Game: The Movie) I thought I'd give this whole 'make a game' thing a shot!

This has probably been asked a million and one times but; where should I start? I have 0 experience but a decent amount of time to commit to learning something - but I don't know which utility is best. I suppose something free that I can learn with and mess around on.

Also all the work in here is incredible - hope to be able to post something one day!


Go for it!

I would suggest copying a *simple* game first. Something like Arkanoid. Put in the main menu, little transitions, high scores... Once you've done that, replace the bricks and bat section with your masterpiece :D

I'd suggest using Unity as it's super awesome, and the community is super-awesomer!!

Good luck. Just Do Stuff™!
 

Feep

Banned
I'd suggest using Unity as it's super awesome, and the community is super-awesomer!!
I'm not saying don't use Unity, but on average, I get a way better response rate of people willing to help on NeoGAF as opposed to the Unity forums. GAF > all
 

Turfster

Member
I'm not saying don't use Unity, but on average, I get a way better response rate of people willing to help on NeoGAF as opposed to the Unity forums. GAF > all

Yeah, I usually don't even bother posting on the Unity forums.
Of course, I might be missing out on a helping hand, but I've seen way too many single post requests for help that never got an answer.
 

missile

Member
... I'm going to update Captain Jatobe now... as it's still my favourite prototype I've made so far :D ...

Floating around has always something special to it. The interactive forces
esp. the non-linear one are pretty hard to mimic using simple translation
and rotations. I can imagine a game of yours similar to CM but now everything
based on a surface if water. Could be pretty interesting to play with waves
for accomplishing missions etc., waves that also reflect upon the ship etc.
making things way interesting and dynamic.
I have a distant idea of mine building maps, levels, etc. solely out of water
hold in check via some force fields. But this requires an entire different
method resp. more complicated equations so to speak than the shallow water
equation used for many of the 2.5D water effects.


Some experiments with aerodynamical forces for Superstall:

I played for a while with the aerodynamic forces like lift, drag, and the
pitching moment and it seems that using NASA/NACA's airfoil data won't allow
me to model the stalling regime for any of their airfoils to a sufficient
degree, since the data is always only given for the operational range a wing
is/was designed for, gained from wind tunnel experiments. Wind tunnel tests
are hard to set up and also pretty expensive. Hence, there is virtually no
data beyond 20 degrees of angle of attack. If I would build a standard flight
simulator, I would be done and everything would be fine since stalling an
aircraft is a no-go in any flight simulator to begin with, not to mention any
good simulation of it. However, the forces acting during a stall (there are
still aerodynamic forces acting even if the aircraft is stalling) are very
important since they can have a huge effect on the behavior of the aircraft.
Well, I thought about to inter- and extrapolate the data, but it's useless and
it becomes cumbersome since one needs also to align for some quantities
depending on lift and drag, or the pitching moment. For example, solely
extrapolating the pitching moment post-stall will lead to some odd rotations
(torques) of the airfoil because the pitching moment varies a lot during a
stall due to the strong change in pressure over the airfoil. Hence, the drag
and lift will have to vary in some related proportion.

Unfortunately, in general, the stalling regime is pretty hard to come by.
Even today using all the wind tunnels and flow simulators, it is very
difficult to say exactly what the air does behind a wing while stalling, i.e.
the process of stalling, i.e. how the flow separates from the surface and how
the (impulse or resisting) forces of the air will distribute over the surface
determining the aerodynamic forces.

Well, considering this problem, and because the stalling characteristic plays
a significant part of Superstall, I will take a step back and will consider
this problem on a more fundamental level. Instead of relying on the data and
associated formulas for lift, drag, and the pitching moment, am intending to
build sort of a model, based on elementary hydro- as well as fluid-dynamic
principles, from which I hope to compute these quantities to a degree
sufficient for the game. Basically, am trying to derive sort of a simple
model to compute (in realtime) the lift and drag coefficients (combined) for
any angle of attack given some airfoil characteristics. An idea of mine
already tells me that this will also allow for quite some interesting effects
not incorporated into the standard lift and drag equations, for example the
dependence on acceleration. Hence, such a model may lead to some interesting
dynamics during a stall since not all parts of an aircraft (esp. not during a
stall) accelerate equally, which will offset the balance much more and will
as such influence and amplify the torques an aircraft undergoes while
stalling.

I hope it turns out way cool...
 

Raonak

Banned
Every day, I've been moving back and forth between Super Pokemon Eevee Edition and my DMC-RPG game (which i've finally named "Nax of the Universe"). So nax one day, SPEE the next. It's been nice, as I don't feel burnt out or anything. And making a LOT more progress than I usually would, oddly enough.

SPEE I'm working on the next hypervisor (the digital gods of the world, that you have to kill- yes this is a pokemon game), and I've been playing too much GTAV to the point I want to implement a stock market in the game :O
My next SPEE release will be coming very soon, It's going to be the first proper "Demo" in a over a year. I'm gonna try hard to build up a lot of hype for it, going beyond the pokecommunity forms that I usually post on.

As for Nax, progress has been nice, i've been polishing up some stuff, I made a concept demo that anyone can download to have a taste of the game. It's very short, but has the main meat of the combat engine in it. 2 weapons, all basic movement. 1 screen, 1 enemy type. Here's a link to the demo: http://www.mediafire.com/download/wwye0r7b8bj6yd6/Nax-Default-1.0.0.2.exe

So Im making Nax game in Game Maker studio currently, but unity has me very interested. anyone with experience with both, what are the differences when making a 2D game, more specifically, what's the learning curve like? is it worth switching to unity?

I initially chose game maker, because I'm far more comfortable with it and additional modules are a lot cheaper. but more flexibility would be nice.
 

Feep

Banned
Still touching up the positioning on this jump, but it was too cool not to share

BADASSGRACE.gif
 
For the last month of been jumping back into Unity since a longggg hiatus.

Ive been messing with cocos2d for the last few years but i really wanted more easier cross platform ability.

Gotta say unity 4+ is a huge step up from 3 and ive managed to get my project up and running pretty quick thanks to some amazing asset store kits and art.

I have been messing with themes and colours lately trying to find something i like.

The game itself is a turn based combat game with some minor resource collection and unit building.

I think this is the final style i will go for, a kinda of holographic effect you see in movies like starwars, it will be animated to give it a real holographic effect (thanks to amazing asset store again)

turnbased1.png


Here is an earlier build with animation. I may eventually replace the models but unsure at this stage.

test.gif


So for those unsure about unity, im primarily a coder , but the amazing asset store is one huge bonus of using unity and for someone like me who struggles with models, having premade assets helps tremendously
 

Tash

Member
Soooo exhausted after coming back from Eurogamer Expo in London. Had a great time at the indie games arcade.

Proof <3 Paz
BIR8hfy.png


Next time I need to take the pics myself...

Assault Android Cactus is awesome btw. REALLY loved playing it. Just wished I had more time :)

Our own indie game is on greenlight now. Not sure if it's ok to post the link or not, though.

edit: someone else thinks Paz doesn't look particularly happy being hugged? :p
 

Paz

Member
Soooo exhausted after coming back from Eurogamer Expo in London. Had a great time at the indie games arcade.

Proof <3 Paz

Next time I need to take the pics myself...

Assault Android Cactus is awesome btw. REALLY loved playing it. Just wished I had more time :)

Our own indie game is on greenlight now. Not sure if it's ok to post the link or not, though.

edit: someone else thinks Paz doesn't look particularly happy being hugged? :p

To be fair I was borderline dead at this point in the show :p Was this on day 3 or day 4? All I remember is wanting to sleep. Btw just got back from the ~33 hour trip home, time for sleep!
 

Tash

Member
Any pointers on how you make that kind of energy field effect, Tash?

IPIcrlM.jpg

It's a custom shader :)
We originally made it for Oliver&Spike and one of the boss fights.

We're using one vertex channel as a transparency channel, and then a couple of other channels for distortion. Then we've made sure the UV's are nicely tiled, and manually edited to look nice and organic while moved in one of the axis. Then on top we have a distortion texture, more axis movement, in addition to the transparent self illuminated 8-bit diffuse texture.

To be fair I was borderline dead at this point in the show :p Was this on day 3 or day 4? All I remember is wanting to sleep. Btw just got back from the ~33 hour trip home, time for sleep!

Was on Sunday, so you are forgiven..for now ;)
Came back with one hour delay..at like 1am then went to work on Monday..tough times as game dev but totally worth it!
 

Dynamite Shikoku

Congratulations, you really deserve it!
It's a custom shader :)
We originally made it for Oliver&Spike and one of the boss fights.

We're using one vertex channel as a transparency channel, and then a couple of other channels for distortion. Then we've made sure the UV's are nicely tiled, and manually edited to look nice and organic while moved in one of the axis. Then on top we have a distortion texture, more axis movement, in addition to the transparent self illuminated 8-bit diffuse texture.

I see. Thanks for the info. And good luck with it.
 

bumpkin

Member
I've thought about looking into shaders a bit, even found a decent set of tutorials. What I'm wondering though are two things; a) can they be applied to anything/everything on screen (like if I'm only rendering textured quads) and b) does anyone know of a good shader or shader tutorial for doing heat distortion?
 

Turfster

Member
I've thought about looking into shaders a bit, even found a decent set of tutorials. What I'm wondering though are two things; a) can they be applied to anything/everything on screen (like if I'm only rendering textured quads) and b) does anyone know of a good shader or shader tutorial for doing heat distortion?

There's different kinds of shaders for different kinds of things.
Heat distortion sounds like something that'd work in screen space, so if you're using Unity, you'd need Pro.
 

bumpkin

Member
I swear I'ma get on that today for you :3 Been busy last couple days for a project at uni.
hahaha. No problem, man! I'm probably like 90% certain it's just not going to work, but that teeny part of me is clinging to hope that I'm wrong.
 

razu

Member
I'm not saying don't use Unity, but on average, I get a way better response rate of people willing to help on NeoGAF as opposed to the Unity forums. GAF > all

Yeah, I usually don't even bother posting on the Unity forums.
Of course, I might be missing out on a helping hand, but I've seen way too many single post requests for help that never got an answer.

Dunno dudes, when I search for things they're almost always already answered. But most of all, when I had a GPU-specific bug, I got an answer from a Unity employee in hours. Which was rad because Google were waiting for a build to feature Chopper Mike :D



Floating around has always something special to it. The interactive forces
esp. the non-linear one are pretty hard to mimic using simple translation
and rotations. I can imagine a game of yours similar to CM but now everything
based on a surface if water. Could be pretty interesting to play with waves
for accomplishing missions etc., waves that also reflect upon the ship etc.
making things way interesting and dynamic.
I have a distant idea of mine building maps, levels, etc. solely out of water
hold in check via some force fields. But this requires an entire different
method resp. more complicated equations so to speak than the shallow water
equation used for many of the 2.5D water effects.

<snip>

It is a nice, relaxing effect. I'm aiming for a more varied game, with mission types. Navigating courses, doing deliveries, etc... Upgrading your boat, buying new types of boat... Raft to Oil Tanker :D

Should be LOLs. And I really want to push the presentation this time. That's going to be the real purpose and challenge of this project.

As for <snip>, can we please have a game to play, or a book to read, please? :D



Here is an earlier build with animation. I may eventually replace the models but unsure at this stage.

test.gif


<3

:D



Hey NeoGAF,

I'd like to share a new gif from my upcoming game, still codenamed "project pixelAI"

psy_cap.gif


hope you like it...

Like it, a lot. Don't know what's going on, but it looks wicked :D
 

usea

Member
For the last month of been jumping back into Unity since a longggg hiatus.

Ive been messing with cocos2d for the last few years but i really wanted more easier cross platform ability.

Gotta say unity 4+ is a huge step up from 3 and ive managed to get my project up and running pretty quick thanks to some amazing asset store kits and art.

I have been messing with themes and colours lately trying to find something i like.

The game itself is a turn based combat game with some minor resource collection and unit building.

I think this is the final style i will go for, a kinda of holographic effect you see in movies like starwars, it will be animated to give it a real holographic effect (thanks to amazing asset store again)
Your game looks like Conflict for NES (by Vic Tokai). Which is kind of like a hex version of Advance Wars. Looks great!
 
Tash, just found your game on Greenlight (well, through Reddit). Amazing. It looks so polished and the graphics style is so vibrant and colorful. I have a small indie blog (Indie Game Enthusiast) so I'm definitely going to do a write up about Shiftlings. Can't wait for this.

And I never realized that the Mirrormoon dev was a GAFfer as well.
 

razu

Member
Hee hee. I just posted this thread on Twitter. And in doing so looked at the first page... man, we've come a long way!! :D

High five, indie people!!
 

Tash

Member
Tash, just found your game on Greenlight (well, through Reddit). Amazing. It looks so polished and the graphics style is so vibrant and colorful. I have a small indie blog (Indie Game Enthusiast) so I'm definitely going to do a write up about Shiftlings. Can't wait for this.

And I never realized that the Mirrormoon dev was a GAFfer as well.

Oh awesome. Glad you like it :)
Green light is nerve wrecking. Never realized how close no/yes votes are. Stats show that even for games in the top 50 the balance is like 51/49 or some such. If you pm me your email I can send you some pr material :D

Yeah we have a super talented indie sub-community here :)
 
Oh awesome. Glad you like it :)
Green light is nerve wrecking. Never realized how close no/yes votes are. Stats show that even for games in the top 50 the balance is like 51/49 or some such. If you pm me your email I can send you some pr material :D

Yeah we have a super talented indie sub-community here :)
Cool, I'll do that. If you're ever in the r/IndieGames subreddit or Toma's Indie Games thread, you'll see me around. I'm pretty active in spreading the word and promoting indie devs with previews and impressions on my blog. You guys are the last bastion of innovation and originality in gaming and I applaud you for the hard work and enduring the struggles you go through to bring your dreams to fruition. And really it's just awesome to be chatting with bonafide game developers.
 

JNT

Member
I've thought about looking into shaders a bit, even found a decent set of tutorials. What I'm wondering though are two things; a) can they be applied to anything/everything on screen (like if I'm only rendering textured quads) and b) does anyone know of a good shader or shader tutorial for doing heat distortion?

Never implemented heat distortion myself, but it sounds like refraction combined with Perlin noise. Try using those as keywords during a search.
 

bkw

Member
Finally jumping into Unity after messing with cocos2d for a while, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how scripts and components should be laid out and connected.

I've dug through the AngryBots project and I can make sense of most of it. Is that a good example to follow to start? Looks like uses SendMessage quite a bit to message events.
 

JNT

Member
Finally jumping into Unity after messing with cocos2d for a while, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how scripts and components should be laid out and connected.

I've dug through the AngryBots project and I can make sense of most of it. Is that a good example to follow to start? Looks like uses SendMessage quite a bit to message events.

You can set up relations between components by initializing a reference to another component in the Start() function using GetComponent<ComponentToReference>().
 

missile

Member
... It is a nice, relaxing effect. I'm aiming for a more varied game, with mission types. Navigating courses, doing deliveries, etc... Upgrading your boat, buying new types of boat... Raft to Oil Tanker :D

Should be LOLs. And I really want to push the presentation this time. That's going to be the real purpose and challenge of this project. ...
So that's going to be your next game, nice. Sounds good at least, and I think
using boats is also way cool since there aren't many indie games using them,
likewise with airplanes. ;) Presentation in terms of advertisement, PR etc, or
do you mean how the game should represent your idea this time?

As for <snip>, can we please have a game to play, or a book to read, please? :D
xD A game, I guess. I wrote those few lines because someone might be in a
similar situation tinkering around with modelling forces. Am constantly
looking for someone who follow an interest doing so, working together with me
building some transformable yet physically-based vehicles, vehicles that can
transform themselves during flight/race while changing their shape / weight-
distribution / wing-area / lift / drag etc. to get a certain advantage for a
particular situation. Anyhow. That's something for another game. Once I have
the formulas ready, am going to build some wings. If the wings do pass a
specific tests, I call the leaf-test, I will compose a prototype aircraft
together.
 
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