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Indie Game Development Discussion Thread | Of Being Professionally Poor

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Ashodin

Member
I don't know all the particulars of your project, but my recommendation is to make sure that *just* meeting the goal would actually be enough to deliver on the promises in the campaign without worry or without things being uncomfortably tight.

I set $15k and I was being totally sincere in doing so, but now that I'm a bit further along and have some perspective, I do think it would have been tight as hell if we had just barely cleared the goal. Doable, but boy would it have been a lot less comfortable.

So when is it going up? Do you have a preview project up yet?

It's going up soon (next couple of hours), and yeah I do have a preview, and yeah 15k will be more than enough to deliver on promises I think. I'm just mastering the kickstarter video, and then finishing up the project page itself.

And actually, if you wanted to make the thread Jobbs, that would be super dope.
 

Mikado

Member
Coming soon...

the Kickstarter Video and the Kickstarter itself. Narrated by FEEP

pb_08bee54b.gif


Good luck, soldier.
 

missile

Member
Well, a few months ago a fellow Gaf indie developer, Duderino from JV5 Games,
did some post over her talking about their oncoming game Air Dash. You may
perhaps remember it while looking at the picture below;

a4a8d868ee460116e2cb86d6a7ea7459_large.png


They did a kickstarter for Air Dash Online (Oct 11, 2013 - Nov 10, 2013),
targeting $355,555. Three days ago they canceled the project.

I assume Duderino to be a serious person so I guess something went wrong
during or prior to the kickstarter project and I am interested in what went
wrong. Talking about being funded is nice, yet talking about some of
intricacies may serve the indie scene to a broader extent.
 

Jobbs

Banned
Well, a few months ago a fellow Gaf indie developer, Duderino from JV5 Games,
did some post over her talking about their oncoming game Air Dash. You may
perhaps remember it while looking at the picture below;

a4a8d868ee460116e2cb86d6a7ea7459_large.png


They did a kickstarter for Air Dash Online (Oct 11, 2013 - Nov 10, 2013),
targeting $355,555. Three days ago they canceled the project.

I assume Duderino to be a serious person so I guess something went wrong
during or prior to the kickstarter project and I am interested in what went
wrong. Talking about being funded is nice, yet talking about some of
intricacies may serve the indie scene to a broader extent.

I know of this game from this thread, I've seen it before, but I had no idea there was a Kickstarter. I think that in itself describes the problem.

Some of you know I ran a quite successful kickstarter. Unless you have some big pre-existing fanbase at your disposal or some high profile status to where everyone will come talk about you without you lifting a finger, there is some amount of hustling that ought to be done before and during the campaign to get awareness out. I did.. I think 11 interviews, and had numerous stories across various indie and gaming sites, including some coverage prior to the campaign. Most of those pieces didn't individually raise a lot of cash, but all together they feed into an increased awareness of the project that I think helps push it along. There are some people who see something and go check it out, there are other people who hear about it, don't check it out, then hear about it again later and decide "oh, this must be a thing, I keep hearing about it" *then* go check it out, so getting those stories on different sites helps.

You'll even have a section of really generous, enthusiastic individuals who love your project, PM you words of support constantly, and go around telling everyone they know to back the thing. These people really exist, I wouldn't have expected it, but I had a number of them and they still keep in touch, which is nice.

I could be absolutely wrong, but just based on the fact that I haven't heard about the Air Dash campaign I'm guessing that not enough hustling was going on. The idea is good, the game looks good, the video was well done and persuasive. $375k is a high bar, and I can't pretend to know how to raise that much cash, but the fact that they fell so short seems to be indicative of a problem with awareness.

Edit: I rewatched and I have a couple new thoughts.. I think this may have been a bit of a harder sell because the game was presented so briefly and blandly. There's not an overwhelming sense of style or variety in the early footage available -- It may be a bit hard to spark someone's imagination with just this. I've been saying again, privately and publically, that I think if you want a KS to catch fire, one of the key components is presenting it in a way that sparks' peoples imagination. If something seems to make people think of parts spread across the garage floor, it's not as romantic or exciting. You want to identify a desire of an audience and set up your video to spark their imagination. For example, I knew there was a lack of HD Metroid-likes and a significant desire for them. That's part of why I came up with the game, and in presenting the game we really emphasized those characteristics that made Metroid feel special that we also care about -- Isolation, atmosphere.

I think ADO would benefit greatly from a bit more development and a more polished and exciting looking vertical slice and really present it in an up close, exciting way. Don't just explain what the key points of the game are or what makes it special in words afterwards; Do it in the gameplay footage itself. And why was the gameplay footage mostly shrunk into tiny windows? There was little enough of it as it was, why make it harder to see?

Ultimately this is Monday morning quarterbacking, and I'm running my mouth, so take it for what it's worth. Sometimes something catches on or doesn't catch on for reasons I can't understand. There's a lot of X factor at work in these.

And actually, if you wanted to make the thread Jobbs, that would be super dope.

okay!
 

missile

Member
Well put.

... I could be absolutely wrong, but just based on the fact that I haven't heard about the Air Dash campaign I'm guessing that not enough hustling was going on. The idea is good, the game looks good, the video was well done and persuasive. $375k is a high bar, and I can't pretend to know how to raise that much cash, but the fact that they fell so short seems to be indicative of a problem with awareness. ...
I think they didn't even announced the Kickstarter campaign within this
thread. One of them did a thread on Gaf which only received less than 50
comments, if I remember correctly.

... Edit: I rewatched and I have a couple new thoughts.. I think this may have been a bit of a harder sell because the game was presented so briefly and blandly. ...
Indeed, the campaign isn't sound, obviously. What interests me, given all the
emphasis put into this game, as one can see from most of Duderino's posts, and
also given the target goal of $375k, suggesting serious business (sort of),
and also given the size if the team of JV5 Games, the question rises; what
sequences of causes has lead to the campaign being canceled? I think this
could be pretty interesting to know for many indie devs, since the main
causes, I suppose, may perhaps be found prior to the start of the campaign.
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Falcon Knee should bring in $250,000 alone

dd0e10cb88d38afeaf6303d24b11521f_large.gif


@Ashodin the trailer went a bit too quickly to read and soak in the classes and there wasn't that much gameplay. I'm not sure how much of the game is done though!
cn_a776f4e2.gif


Some new combo animamamations.
Wow that seems to be coming along pretty well.
 

Ashodin

Member
Falcon Knee should bring in $250,000 alone

dd0e10cb88d38afeaf6303d24b11521f_large.gif


@Ashodin the trailer went a bit too quickly to read and soak in the classes and there wasn't that much gameplay. I'm not sure how much of the game is done though!

Wow that seems to be coming along pretty well.

Hey thanks for the comment, I figured it's a little bit fast, so I can slow things down and upload another if necessary. And much is done on menus and stuff, but combat is a little slow on the dev side because I'm working on getting into the combat faster through story and such. Today I plan to work a whole lot on combat though for a demo for the Kickstarter!
 

Turfster

Member
So here's the trailer bit of the kickstarter video, while you guys are waiting for the Kickstarter to get through. I forgot they take a couple days to review it, so it shouldn't be much longer.

Cool trailer!
One minor thing you might want to think about (assuming you've got the graphics for it already): Also show off some of the female versions of the classes. As far as I can see, you've only got the male versions up now. First questions a friend asked "they all say male, so can I only play those classes as a male? are there special female only classes?"
 

TrickRoom

Member
Pitched a concept to Nintendo and they loved it, got accepted, but I think I'm going to have to pass.. I'm already unemployed and going to school full time and about to lose my house... there's no way I can pay for the devkit and no time to work 24/7 those 3 months that it's free.

They're unsure of the status of apps currently and are in the middle of seeing if the concept might be better suited for an existing team or if I want to go ahead solo.

So frustrating.. wish I had a job, I'd do it :D

What was the concept, if you don't mind sharing?
 

Ashodin

Member
Cool trailer!
One minor thing you might want to think about (assuming you've got the graphics for it already): Also show off some of the female versions of the classes. As far as I can see, you've only got the male versions up now. First questions a friend asked "they all say male, so can I only play those classes as a male? are there special female only classes?"

Ah odd! There are male and female versions of every class.
 

Raonak

Banned
cn_a776f4e2.gif


Some new combo animamamations.
Goddamn. That looks so good!

"Ghost Song Colors" purple and green in full effect.

bigigle12b.gif
Impressive as always! Amazing job on your kickstarter btw

I love the look and speed of this so far. :D
Thanks! Speed is definitely a focus of the game. I just upped the walking speed because I noticed that it was a bit annoying walking around. the walking feels maybe a little too fast, but It makes finding dead ends, and just generally travelling around a lot more tolerable. And it's speed now matches the speed of combat.

Grats on getting people on r/indiegaming excited!

ITS A MAP

worldmappc.gifghpsj.gif
Hah, gaf indies represent :D. That thread turned out much better than I anticipated, first major exposure of the game.

good luck on your kickstarter man!
 

Blizzard

Banned
I was messing with some engine code this weekend, and I was reminded once again how C++ templates are a tool of the dark lord or something.

They can provide some nice design features, but if you get one piece of syntax wrong, they can waste so much time figuring out compiler errors and learning the exact C++ rules for your particular case. I am currently stuck on something where "typename" is apparently required in some cases (or only for certain compilers?) but PROHIBITED in others. :(
 
bleh... one of the nice things abotu being in grad school is you get paid to make art... but you don't get paid to make games ...>_<

It's hard to sell my idea to my comittee, but that's not a bad thing. I realize they have been reviewing alot of in progress work (as required by my school) but the feedback I've gotten hasnt been helpful especially when most of the work is placeholder.

/vent

on a side note new mechanics are working out nice and character designs seem to be something most I've shown have gotten attached to.
 

TrickRoom

Member
hop, hop, hop!
OQTRA8Y.gif


swing, swing, swing!
AqM8pDm.gif


My friend made these gifs while trying to find a proper art style for the game. The initial pixel art attempts were taxing on him for his first time. Not to mention, the hard black-outline sprites on a more faded background seemed to clash. We figured it would come more naturally to him if he were just to shrink his art without having to work on pixels. I guess this is one of those times where indies find themselves sticking to the things they do best, eh?
 
Nice rabbit! tell your friend awesome job :)

Yeah, I have to agree with you that sticking to what you enjoy the most and do best is sometimes a better choice than forcing yourself to fulfill something you can do, but don't enjoy. It's a case by case thing though so I'm not saying it's always good.



#screenshotsaturday


the dialogue sections have yet to be programmed but I'm laying them out for now. I already have a few separate gameplay sections functioning but there's still alot of work to do.
 
Treachery in Beatdown City Area 1 - 1 overworld map

ss1102topdown.png


The map is supposed to be very city like, yet guided at the same time. There are paths you can take and enemies to fight, but choke points make sure players advance the game and fight a certain amount of enemies on the way.

#screenshotsaturday

Nice rabbit! tell your friend awesome job :)

Yeah, I have to agree with you that sticking to what you enjoy the most and do best is sometimes a better choice than forcing yourself to fulfill something you can do, but don't enjoy. It's a case by case thing though so I'm not saying it's always good.



#screenshotsaturday



the dialogue sections have yet to be programmed but I'm laying them out for now. I already have a few separate gameplay sections functioning but there's still alot of work to do.

I dig your Buffalo style.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Can someone recommend me a reasonably price drawing tablet?
Is this for serious professional art, or are you wanting to try a starting drawing tablet for hobby/occasional use?

If you are interested for hobby purposes, it may be hard to beat monoprice's cheap tablet line. I got this one: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=108&cp_id=10841&cs_id=1084101&p_id=5553&seq=1&format=2

It actually worked surprisingly well, and it will be half the price or less of even one of the Wacom Bamboo tablets. If nothing else, you could try one without breaking the bank and not be out too much if you hate it. =P
 
Treachery in Beatdown City Area 1 - 1 overworld map

ss1102topdown.png


The map is supposed to be very city like, yet guided at the same time. There are paths you can take and enemies to fight, but choke points make sure players advance the game and fight a certain amount of enemies on the way.

#screenshotsaturday



I dig your Buffalo style.



Lookin nice! Nice way to use the city design to enforce gameplay :)


thanks for the input... background is not final and in process but the buffalo is mostly done.



In terms of tablet I've got a Wacom that I am still unsure if I want to sell or not. Let me know.
 

clashfan

Member
Is this for serious professional art, or are you wanting to try a starting drawing tablet for hobby/occasional use?

If you are interested for hobby purposes, it may be hard to beat monoprice's cheap tablet line. I got this one: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=108&cp_id=10841&cs_id=1084101&p_id=5553&seq=1&format=2

It actually worked surprisingly well, and it will be half the price or less of even one of the Wacom Bamboo tablets. If nothing else, you could try one without breaking the bank and not be out too much if you hate it. =P

Thanks, I'm still at the hobby level so this looks like a great deal.
 
Lookin nice! Nice way to use the city design to enforce gameplay :)


thanks for the input... background is not final and in process but the buffalo is mostly done.



In terms of tablet I've got a Wacom that I am still unsure if I want to sell or not. Let me know.

Thanks!

I have an Intuos 5... I've just been sticking with Wacom since school.
 
Haven't been able to update much around here for quite long time...but just a quick screenshot of Junkcraft Armada crew profile window...

CharacterProfilesTest_zps3a71c48a.png


A rogue like modular space sim game with crew management with perma death
 

GulAtiCa

Member
I'm tired. Spent a lot of time this last few days updating my game, ZaciSa's Last Stand for the Wii U. Mainly fixing bugs. Had to redo my movement algorithm. But fixed now, though results in tougher gameplay. Will have to redo game balance. I also updated the field of view for the web beta version to show off more.

http://games.gregthegamer.com/zacisaslaststand/ Check it out, let me know what you think. (ignore the graphical issue with Hyperspace)

I also recently found someone who might be able to help me with music for the game. I like what they sent me so far. Finally looking forward to getting back to graphics.

Let me know what you think.
 

Raonak

Banned
Im so excited. finally nailed down a neat way to implement a few things I wanted in Nax of the Universe, all in one package.

1- equipable item drops, which increase stats, and can be crafted to make better versions.
2- A thing like the Pokedex in pokemon. turning the monsters of the game, into a collectable.
3- seperating equable items, from usable items (like potions, mushrooms, bombs, keys)

the answer: Cards.

The cards will have monsters on them, I like trading cards. Every enemy in the game will have a corrisponding card.


Enemies will drop these cards.
For each monster, they will have a common drop- which will be their own card, and a
rare drop, which will be a higher ranked enemy.
The chances of an enemy dropping a card depends on the rank of the enemy, and your current style rank when you defeat them. Rare drops can only be obtained with a style rank of S or more. (may edit the specifics)

Cards can be equiped on Nax. He'll initially only be able to equip 2 cards, with more slots opening up to him later(8-10 slots max). Each monster card has specific attributes that change nax's stats when equiped. Some for the better, some worse. eg: slime card will increase defence +2, but decrease magic defence by 1. And increase poison resistance by 5%.

Cards have 2 additonal attributes: Stat Required and Level Cost.
to equip a card, you need to meet it's stat requirement. It'll be one of 3 stats. Strength, Vitality, or Sprit. eg: slime card has a stat requirement of : Str 5. Which means you need a strength stat of 5 to equip it.
In additon to that, there's a level cost. The total level costs of all your equiped cards cannot excess your current level. Which is there, both for balance and to incentive levelling up.

In addition to that, these cards can be sold for money (which you use to buy attacks, consumable items, or magic).
And they can be fused to create more powerful monster's cards.
And to take it all back to the beginning, there'll be a FF8 style card encyclopedia, which will record every monster card you've collected. so there'll be a gotta catch 'em all aspect to the game, wanting to get every enemy's card.

Seems like a fun, and less generic way to implement equipment. (rather than just being random items, like bronze armour) Also, it explains away why nax's appearence never changes, even if he has stuff equiped. cause they're now just cards.

Part of me really wants to make a FF8 triple triad minigame, so cards have yet another use, and so there's something else to do outside playing the main game.
But it would probably take too much time to implement... maybe leave that for the sequel (lol)
any thoughts? ways to improve?
 

pixelpai

Neo Member
Im so excited. finally nailed down a neat way to implement a few things I wanted in Nax of the Universe, all in one package.

1- equipable item drops, which increase stats, and can be crafted to make better versions.
2- A thing like the Pokedex in pokemon. turning the monsters of the game, into a collectable.
3- seperating equable items, from usable items (like potions, mushrooms, bombs, keys)

the answer: Cards.

The cards will have monsters on them, I like trading cards. Every enemy in the game will have a corrisponding card.



any thoughts? ways to improve?

sounds like a good idea and I think "cards" are a good way to implement the "gotta catch 'em al" aspect. Extending it by not only being someting to collect but beeing bound to the gameplay itself, is even more appealing.

What' s the story of "Nax of the Universe" and what potential role could cards play in it?
 

Raonak

Banned
sounds like a good idea and I think "cards" are a good way to implement the "gotta catch 'em al" aspect. Extending it by not only being someting to collect but beeing bound to the gameplay itself, is even more appealing.

What' s the story of "Nax of the Universe" and what potential role could cards play in it?

Nax has a very undefined story right now. The moon collasped, now the timespace tree is seeing a future apocalypse event that will destroy the entire universe. now nax must go on a epic journey to stop it.

Not exactly sure how I'll integrate the cards to the story. or if I even need to. Might just leave it as a mechanic of the world. when things die, their life essence turns into cards.

Anyway. finally got leveling up fully working.
upon a level up, you get a skill point, that you can spend on one of three atrributes. strength (+3 attack), vitality (+2 defence, +1 magic defence), spirit(+2 magic, +1 magic defence)

Did find one problem though... If you have high attack, you kill enemies very quickly. But the downside, is that because you're killing them so fast, your stylish meter doesn't go too high. Think I can get around this issue by just implementing a big style bonus upon killing an enemy. that should make it better.
 
Just got the invoice in the mail for the kit and for some reason made my irrationally excited again :p

Getting a new tower made up in preparation for it and still not sure what is "enough" so might visit the PC part thread later to get some ideas.

I just saw the pokemon stuff a few pages back and I might as well chime in. Haha

I've been working over the last year my main project as well as a Gen 1 remake in Unreal but used it as practice for writing (i expanded a lot on the original and did a whole "what if" scenario with it) and gave it a cel-shaded look.

Nothing GRAPHICALLY impressive but it helped a lot in terms of writing dialogue, building off an already existing story so hopefully what I learned rubs off into the current project.
 

Jobbs

Banned
when working on FX I like to just sort of make a little playground in photoshop and start trying things. If I do something I like I'll extract the frames into their own sheet.

bullet01bb_enemyimpact.gif


This is kind of a "took more damage" type effect I was playing with, inspired by all the time I've been playing Muramasa lately. I think this'll have to be for bigger damage hits; I made a smaller one for regular damage. I'll see how these feel in game.
 
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