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Indie Game Development Discussion Thread | Of Being Professionally Poor

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Looking at Jobb's process makes me look forward to working on a non-pixel art game in the future! As much as I love working with pixels, it can get rather frustrating and rotation/scaling is so limited in comparison to high-res artwork.

Anyways, looks great!

Speaking of pixel art, was working on this character today!

bjcPOiC.gif
 

Flai

Member
I always get so depressed when I read this thread.. All of you guys are making so amazing games and I can't even be productive enough to finish even the most simple game.. Ugh..
 

Feep

Banned
I always get so depressed when I read this thread.. All of you guys are making so amazing games and I can't even be productive enough to finish even the most simple game.. Ugh..
Making games is incredibly, unbelievably difficult, and even making "the most simple game" can be a backbreaking task. Many of us in here are lucky enough to have the free time/financial resources to work on games, but many don't. If you ever do complete even that simple game, feel very proud of yourself. You can do it!
 

Five

Banned
I always get so depressed when I read this thread.. All of you guys are making so amazing games and I can't even be productive enough to finish even the most simple game.. Ugh..

I like participating in game jams like ludum dare. Even if none of your "main" games ever get finished, you'll still be able to look back over the year and point out the occasional micro title you were able to produce.

Plus it's good to have room for experimentation, and game jams are great outlets for that.
 

usea

Member
I always get so depressed when I read this thread.. All of you guys are making so amazing games and I can't even be productive enough to finish even the most simple game.. Ugh..
I've finished one game, and that was a 2-day twin-stick shooter I made in C++ and SDL. Also it was 4 years ago.
 

Flai

Member
Making games is incredibly, unbelievably difficult, and even making "the most simple game" can be a backbreaking task. Many of us in here are lucky enough to have the free time/financial resources to work on games, but many don't. If you ever do complete even that simple game, feel very proud of yourself. You can do it!

Thanks :) My problem is that I feel like I have the skills to make pretty great games and I have tons of free time, but I'm just too lazy and unproductive to get any work done.. But I guess I just have to force myself more!

I like participating in game jams like ludum dare. Even if none of your "main" games ever get finished, you'll still be able to look back over the year and point out the occasional micro title you were able to produce.

Plus it's good to have room for experimentation, and game jams are great outlets for that.

Yeah Ludum Dares are awesome, basically only games that I've actually gotten into remotely finished state are LD games (not counting couple of my very small windows phone games). I really should start http://www.onegameamonth.com I think it could really help my motivation.. Maybe next january :) ?
 

charsace

Member
I always get so depressed when I read this thread.. All of you guys are making so amazing games and I can't even be productive enough to finish even the most simple game.. Ugh..
Do what I do; make a bunch of crap in a genre you want to make a good game in until you make something good. Like if you want to make a platformer start off with a one screen game with a simple tile system.
 

missile

Member
... I feel like I have the skills to make pretty great games ... but I'm just too lazy and unproductive to get any work done. ...
Then we may likewise suppose you don't have these skills.

Edit:
This is to be understood as a motivation.
 
I'd been sitting on this placeholder frame for one of my enemies for a while, so today I'm animating it.

stage3a.png


To make this puppy move, what I'll be doing is slicing it up into a bunch of pieces, retouching the pieces to fill in any blanks, get them all moving in the desired way, then retouch.

Here's my initial butcher job. I expanded them out so you can see them better.

ms2puppet.png


I knew what I wanted to do was start iwth a basic idle motion. Kind of a bobbing up and down, with some parts pulsing grossly. What I decided to do was focus on just the downward motion, and after that's in place, I'll reuse some of those frames to bring it back up.

I use photoshop to do my animations. To start, I just did some basic sliding of the body parts to orient everything to the bottom point of its travel. This is 6 frames.

ms3idlepass01.gif


There's no retouching yet. In some cases I rotating a body part a bit by frame to keep it lined up.

Now with that more or less in place, I duplicated some of the frames for traveling downward and put them at the end, but this time in reverse order, so it travels back up. I also retouched it a bit with the brush over top of everything, to add some lighting and other oddities to make it look more natural. I also tweaked his arm and fingers some on the way back up to make it swing a bit more naturally.

stage2_idle01.gif


This looks about right now, and it didn't take me much time at all. It's kind of a hybrid system -- It's sort of a 2D doll, but it's also sort of traditional. I did more or less the same thing to animate the player character, just with more work put in to get all the poses right.

RIGHT_run_lc.gif


I'm on schedule to do hopefully finish all of this enemy's remaining animations by the end of today.

Thats a good way to animate Jobbs!
May I ask you a question?
Which program are you using to draw and butcher your characters? And the animation process?
When I saw the first screens of your game I thought it was advance pixelart, but the bigger versions looks totally handdrawn.
 
So I just needed to comment on this. When I started making games 15 years ago, my final products looked like this. I just had this crazy nostalgia bomb, haha.

lol everyone has to start somewhere. In my case it's just that early in development >_>.

Luckily I'm more of an artist so the art direction will definitely improve later. I just need something working to well...work with.
 
Flexible funding, I believe. You can still get raised money even if you don't meet your goal.

Once you meet your goal, you don't have to wait until the end of the campaign to have access to your funds. There's a lower processing fee as well. But they use Paypal, which has a history of sometimes dicking over people by holding their funds because "reasons."
 

Dynamite Shikoku

Congratulations, you really deserve it!
Anyone good with shader stuff (in unity)?

Basically, I just want to ask the same as this guy did here.

I want to use some coloured particle effects with additive blending on a light background. But on a light background all the particles just turn white. Is there any way around this? In that link the guy gets around it by rendering the particles to a separate texture, but I guess I'd need unity pro for that?
 

Jobbs

Banned
Thats a good way to animate Jobbs!
May I ask you a question?
Which program are you using to draw and butcher your characters? And the animation process?
When I saw the first screens of your game I thought it was advance pixelart, but the bigger versions looks totally handdrawn.

thanks. I do everything in photoshop (so far). there's an animation window you can use which basically assigns different layer configurations to each frame (which layer is shown, etc) so you can animate.

off in the future I may want to look at spriter or spine or something for a game, but I haven't even experimented with those yet.
 

ctothej

Member
Flexible funding, I believe. You can still get raised money even if you don't meet your goal.

Once you meet your goal, you don't have to wait until the end of the campaign to have access to your funds. There's a lower processing fee as well. But they use Paypal, which has a history of sometimes dicking over people by holding their funds because "reasons."

Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I see why some people prefer Indiegogo now.
 

missile

Member
I think I finally made some progress understanding/refreshing my memory about shaders, so now it's time to learn/relearn matrix stuff and model/view/projection transformations.

I always disliked linear algebra, worst of all the math classes. =P Calc 1, Calc 3, DiffEQ, combinatorics, prob/stat were fine, but linear algebra was obnoxious.

I'm already going to almost certainly be behind my own rough schedule I started making, but at least I'm making progress again! I found a couple of links for reading tomorrow:
http://solarianprogrammer.com/2013/05/22/opengl-101-matrices-projection-view-model/
http://www.opengl-tutorial.org/beginners-tutorials/tutorial-3-matrices/

Not really either, just enough to understand the basics of both in a pure 2D environment so that I can implement translation, rotation, and scaling. =P

Now if I ever get to AI, I might delve into that a bit deeper.

I just want to make a further comment on this. Basically, while learning, it is
best to work out translation, rotation, scaling, projection etc. in component
form and later rephrase everything using matrices. Matrices are usually
thought of making things easier, which is only true once the underlying thing
is understood. Another advantage of using the component form first is in
gaining a much better understanding / insight of the expression describing the
action along a given coordinate axis (component). This is esp. important
regarding projections. And projections are best studied from using one of the
intercept theorems for lines and/or by making use of intersecting a line with
a plane component-by-component.

So a very good project for learning all the transformations fully is, for
example, by trying to replace all of OpenGL's matrices with our own version
mimicking the libraries default behavior. This means that you won't use
glRotate, glTranslate, glOrtho, glPerspective etc. any longer to setup a
transformation. It will be done by glMultMatrix your own matrix on the
respective matrix stack.

Having all these matrices under control allows for cool things to happen esp.
considering the projection matrix.

While we are at it, a further learning experience would be to try to replace
all rotations with quaternions and cast them into OpenGL's matrix format only
when needed.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Bear in mind that in this particular case, I'm not as interested in the learning experience as I am in understanding the basics of how a particular case works (matrix modifying stuff in a 2D game engine), since I don't want to simply copy examples. After I understand the basics and get 2D graphics working, I probably won't mess with it again until a year or more from now when I might get involved in 3D graphics again.

Last night I went through http://solarianprogrammer.com/2013/05/22/opengl-101-matrices-projection-view-model/ up through the first part of the model matrix section. The matrix stuff came back to me a bit, and the math makes sense -- I'm willing to trust the full 3D rotation matrix since I don't care to go through the full derivation. I probably spent enough time deriving/proving stuff in years of math in high school and university so I feel like I paid my dues there. :p

So, the rotation matrix seems reasonable, the translation and scaling matrices are easy, and the W coordinate makes sense when it's 1. I think that's about it for the model matrix as far as I can tell! I may not need view/projection modifications in a 2D game but I still plan to read through the rest in the coming days and potentially experiment slightly before moving on.
 

missile

Member
Bear in mind that ...
I did. :) What I wrote is more or less an advice for those interested, because
at times I see people stumbling with graphics while getting hit by all the
matrices thrown on them, whereby matrices add nothing substantial regarding
basic translation, rotation, scaling, and projection.

So you want to make a 2d game now? What is it about?
 

snarge

Member
Looks like Unity released 4.3 today. That's the one with their 2D implementation. I won't be able to get to it till the weekend, anyone have any first impressions on it? Also, super excited for the mecanim events being added.

Release Notes
 

friken

Member
We have been working on the sun surface and plasma trail. It has been difficult to get the sun/trails looking great independent of the background (stars/nebulas/different colors). This is one of those cases where a lot of work goes in but I'm not sure if many people will notice the differences.

StarDiver-BlueNeb1.jpg


Video:
 

Bollocks

Member
Looks like Unity released 4.3 today. That's the one with their 2D implementation. I won't be able to get to it till the weekend, anyone have any first impressions on it? Also, super excited for the mecanim events being added.

Release Notes

Nice, will check out later today
Can the 2D stuff also be used for HUD's?
 

Jobbs

Banned
We have been working on the sun surface and plasma trail. It has been difficult to get the sun/trails looking great independent of the background (stars/nebulas/different colors). This is one of those cases where a lot of work goes in but I'm not sure if many people will notice the differences.

This is pretty, and it reminds me of star control 2. I remember many an all nighter playing star control 2 with my cousins.. melee mode after melee mode.

I screen, you screen, we all screen for #screengifsaturday.

cn_a6e0f11d.gif

New slash effects. Improved curve tangent generation for slash arcs. Fixed the hitstop implementation finally. Added radial zoom to solid hits.

cn_b3bea806.gif

New splash effects. This pond has been in the test level forever but I never show it cause it didn't have splashes.

What's the overall game like? We see really pretty gifs of a character battling beasties, but what's the bigger picture? Is it kind of a monster hunter type situation or what?
 

Burt

Member
Does anyone know of any good playtesters they'd be willing to share? We're looking for a few for Heart Forth, Alicia. Just need a few people with a solid understanding of game logic and development, who can record, document, and provide some articulate feedback and be trusted not to leak anything.

If any of you guys are interested too, feel free to send me a PM. Nothing like another developer's opinion.
 

Mikado

Member
What's the overall game like? (...) Is it kind of a monster hunter type situation or what?

Insomuch as it is a co-op melee combat game with short missions. Compared to something like MH, the combat pace is intended to be more accessible.

We are focusing intently on all aspects of the combat right now which is why I have so many gifs of beast-chopping hah. We are aiming to get a public combat demo out sometime early in the new year.

As there are still only two of us on the project right now, I'm doing all of the engine programming, environment/character modeling (aside from the existing beasties), animation and effects. My partner is rocking the audio side (which unfortunately doesn't carry through screengifs).
 

Five

Banned
We have been working on the sun surface and plasma trail. It has been difficult to get the sun/trails looking great independent of the background (stars/nebulas/different colors). This is one of those cases where a lot of work goes in but I'm not sure if many people will notice the differences.

Maybe it's just me, but it looks a little strange how the plasma particles spawn at full size. I think it'd help make them more fluid if it took them two or three frames to grow to full size.
 

Blizzard

Banned
I did. :) What I wrote is more or less an advice for those interested, because
at times I see people stumbling with graphics while getting hit by all the
matrices thrown on them, whereby matrices add nothing substantial regarding
basic translation, rotation, scaling, and projection.

So you want to make a 2d game now? What is it about?
2D game now? When did I suggest otherwise? :p

I wish to make a turn-based strategem game.
 

Feep

Banned
I made an important feature request for Unity: http://feedback.unity3d.com/suggest...ps-to-be-explicitely-played-by-script-command
Anyone with an account could really help changing that, please give it all your votes and make it happen.

So far I absolutely love Unity, but currently mecanim is a huge bloated POS. That whole thing with the graphical animation editor and giving only access to nondescript values is nothing but a lot of useless complications. We really need to have the option to bypass that and call animation clips explicitly from script.
Hahahaha. Ask and ye shall receive?

Unity 4.3 is a HUGE deal for me, as it has heavy changes in Mecanim and Navigation Meshes. And I'm not even going to use any of the 2-D stuff! I'll report back later today.

Edit: Okay well nothing is animating now so there's that
 

Jobbs

Banned
I just updated the design for Saymund, (one of the most important NPCs in my game) which is something I've been wanting to do for a while.

newsaymundskc2b.png


The old design seen in the Kickstarter listing was thicker and rounder and didn't suit the personality of the character as much.

Insomuch as it is a co-op melee combat game with short missions. Compared to something like MH, the combat pace is intended to be more accessible.

We are focusing intently on all aspects of the combat right now which is why I have so many gifs of beast-chopping hah. We are aiming to get a public combat demo out sometime early in the new year.

As there are still only two of us on the project right now, I'm doing all of the engine programming, environment/character modeling (aside from the existing beasties), animation and effects. My partner is rocking the audio side (which unfortunately doesn't carry through screengifs).

I really like the look of your game, this along with Ghost of a Tale have impressed me as stand out examples of excellent 3D art and animation done by one or two people. It makes me want to learn how to do 3D animation. I think I have the mindset for 3D modeling and animation, I just lack knowledge of the actual software and tools. What do you use to do this?
 

Mikado

Member
I really like the look of your game, this along with Ghost of a Tale have impressed me as stand out examples of excellent 3D art and animation done by one or two people.

Thank you!

What do you use to do this?

We use Blender, actually*. As it turns out, I designed and programmed the initial Blender character animation system when I worked at NaN in the Netherlands, back when Blender was still a commercial product (like 2000 or so?). Since Blender went open source, the community has totally blown the quality level out of the park, while still keeping true to the initial designs of the system. As a result, it's the perfect animation tool for me :)

Plus, you can't beat the price.

-------------------------------------------
*Well to be fair we use a custom branch that fixes some of Blender's more irritating file handling issues, and contains a few of my own animation herbs n' spices.
 

razu

Member
Insomuch as it is a co-op melee combat game with short missions. Compared to something like MH, the combat pace is intended to be more accessible.

We are focusing intently on all aspects of the combat right now which is why I have so many gifs of beast-chopping hah. We are aiming to get a public combat demo out sometime early in the new year.

As there are still only two of us on the project right now, I'm doing all of the engine programming, environment/character modeling (aside from the existing beasties), animation and effects. My partner is rocking the audio side (which unfortunately doesn't carry through screengifs).


As a melee combat game.. the melee combat looks great! It's not like Street Fighter has a great story or over-arching storyline, and that's reasonably popular! :D

Keep perfecting that core gameplay!!
 
I'm tired. Spent a lot of time this last few days updating my game, ZaciSa's Last Stand for the Wii U. Mainly fixing bugs. Had to redo my movement algorithm. But fixed now, though results in tougher gameplay. Will have to redo game balance. I also updated the field of view for the web beta version to show off more.

http://games.gregthegamer.com/zacisaslaststand/ Check it out, let me know what you think. (ignore the graphical issue with Hyperspace)

I also recently found someone who might be able to help me with music for the game. I like what they sent me so far. Finally looking forward to getting back to graphics.

Let me know what you think.
:)

So why is the attack range of the towers filled in? The towers themselves are a different enough color such that the ranges overlapping doesn't make them hard to see, but the space station/planet in the middle does become obscured. It makes it a little hard to tell when I should be taking chances with my towers and let money build up, or when I should start upgrading asap.

See below for an example:
 

Dali

Member
First time posting itt in a while. Coming in here used to be so inspirational but since my laptop crapped out on me months ago it's just been painful. Lots of great stuff. I wish I could continue work on what I had going. Looking to purchase a laptop this holiday season but I'm not sure what I get will be as good as my old laptop (from 2008). The cpu in all likelihood will be better but it seems for the price range I'm looking at only integrated gpu at best. My current broken laptop wasnnever a speed demon mind you but the performance was never lacking for my purposes with the low tier nvidia card in it.

Anyway hope to again contribute at some point.
 

Ecto311

Member
With the new release of unity are there any
Definitive books or podcasts/books to learn it from? I know nothing about programming but wanna make a side scroller and it seems like the best route for me to get something going on steam.
 

Dynamite Shikoku

Congratulations, you really deserve it!
Had my game 'Gleamer' for free on iOS for the past 24 hours and its now ranked 12 in the most downloaded puzzle games (US store). Ranked 64 in overall games, and 198 in overall apps. Pretty cool...even though I don't get any money.

Take that Tetris!
OROjbj0.png
 

Bamihap

Good at being the bigger man
Had my game 'Gleamer' for free on iOS for the past 24 hours and its now ranked 12 in the most downloaded puzzle games (US store). Ranked 64 in overall games, and 198 in overall apps. Pretty cool...even though I don't get any money.

Take that Tetris!
OROjbj0.png
Time to monetize!
 

Dynamite Shikoku

Congratulations, you really deserve it!
There actually is an IAP in there to unlock levels (which will otherwise be unlocked when you play through), but its sold almost nothing. And I'm putting the game back to paid soon, so if anyone wants to download it, nows the time.
 

Raonak

Banned
I released first public alpha at the end of last week, was nice to finally get proper feedback about nax of the universe. But limited, since the demo is so short, and Im guessing most people couldn't understand how to do the advanced moves, which are almost as essential as the normal attacks.
(can download the pre-alpha here: http://dreammodule.com?nax=about)

Anyway, since then, I've been working on implementing a new enemy, which required me rewriting much of the enemy AI. which I think has worked out double good, because it allows more complex behavioural patterns, and I updated the existing enemy AI to be more aggressive. I actually get hit from time to time which makes it more satisfying than before, since theres a bit of challenge.

The new enemy, i've got half working, should actually be a real challenge. I'm looking at demons/dark souls as insiration on how to get the enemies right. They should be difficult, but there should be a "pattern" to them.
theres going to be 3 classes of enemies in the game
Light cannon fodder, like the slimes
Medium enemies, which are quite a bit harder, and require you to dodge a lot of attacks.
Heavy enemies, which are basically minibosses, and will pose a good challenge.

anyway. GIF:
sIOtG5O.gif
 
Thanks :) My problem is that I feel like I have the skills to make pretty great games and I have tons of free time, but I'm just too lazy and unproductive to get any work done.. But I guess I just have to force myself more!

My advice would be to break up what you need to do into manageable tasks, so that completing a task makes you feel like you've finished a game level or something. That way "making a game" doesn't seem like this overwhelming endeavour, and you can have this continuous feeling like you're making progress.
 

Blizzard

Banned
I know it's trivial, but it's progress for me: I went through the model matrix material, and I think I'm cool with scaling/translation/rotation now.

Next up, view and projection matrices, since rotation looks silly. Rotating a rectangle 90 degrees produces the same rectangle! My screen is not scaling properly, horror! Etc. This is educational for me, I'm sure. :p

I was wondering about how inefficient my test code must be, constructing and multiplying matrices on the CPU, and then passing the resulting matrix to the vertex shader. Some cursory research indicates that apparently some people DO construct and multiply matrices inside the shaders themselves, so the CPU code can simply pass in variable and angle uniform values.

Does anyone have any experience or advice about this -- making rotation/translation/scaling parameters uniform shader inputs? My suspicion is that a GPU would be far faster than a CPU at setting up and executing the matrix stuff, but I was not sure if I was missing any particular problems with this approach.
 
I just updated the design for Saymund, (one of the most important NPCs in my game) which is something I've been wanting to do for a while.

newsaymundskc2b.png


The old design seen in the Kickstarter listing was thicker and rounder and didn't suit the personality of the character as much.



I really like the look of your game, this along with Ghost of a Tale have impressed me as stand out examples of excellent 3D art and animation done by one or two people. It makes me want to learn how to do 3D animation. I think I have the mindset for 3D modeling and animation, I just lack knowledge of the actual software and tools. What do you use to do this?

Love, love, love this character design!
 

Tash

Member
Small shout out again:

If you guys wanna try Gametracer go here (in your browser): https://www.gametracer.net/?mod=editor&promo=SPILLEXPO and enter SPILLEXPO. This will add 2 weeks of free Premium and unlock everything :)

Also super thankful for any feedback you guys might have :)

You can create and play levels on your iPad or Android tablet as well as in the browser
You can play but not create games on your iphone or android.
 
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