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Indie Game Development Discussion Thread | Of Being Professionally Poor

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JulianImp

Member
So how does everyone go about animated texture faces? Where the facial details aren't modeled in but instead the geometry is just a billboard and the textures are used for expressions. First example I can think of would be Animal Crossing, and a lot of anime-styled games also do this.

I can't imagine that it would be done using animated UVs; perhaps the face is on its own UV set with a different material and the texture is swapped out accordingly? I try to solve this stuff on my own but I don't even know the terms to search in this case.

EDIT: Wind Waker is a really great example as well; I love how it was done there.

You could have several expression textures you can swap on the fly by messing around with the UV values for the face plane/s, I think.
 

Popstar

Member
So how does everyone go about animated texture faces? Where the facial details aren't modeled in but instead the geometry is just a billboard and the textures are used for expressions. First example I can think of would be Animal Crossing, and a lot of anime-styled games also do this.

I can't imagine that it would be done using animated UVs; perhaps the face is on its own UV set with a different material and the texture is swapped out accordingly? I try to solve this stuff on my own but I don't even know the terms to search in this case.

EDIT: Wind Waker is a really great example as well; I love how it was done there.
There are two ways to usually do it.

The first is just to have different geometry (with different UVs) for each face and just hide/show what sub-meshes you need.

The second is to have all of your faces equal-sized in a strip. You set up the UVs for the base face and then just pass in an additional offset for others which is added in your vertex shader.
 

Lautaro

Member
So how does everyone go about animated texture faces? Where the facial details aren't modeled in but instead the geometry is just a billboard and the textures are used for expressions. First example I can think of would be Animal Crossing, and a lot of anime-styled games also do this.

I can't imagine that it would be done using animated UVs; perhaps the face is on its own UV set with a different material and the texture is swapped out accordingly? I try to solve this stuff on my own but I don't even know the terms to search in this case.

EDIT: Wind Waker is a really great example as well; I love how it was done there.

That depens of what you are using, I'm using Unity so my example only works for that:

I have a cartoon boulder in my current project. I just change the material that is using with a script but maybe a more efficient way to do it would be having all the faces "tiled" in the same texture and change the offset or something. This script animates a texture in Unity so it behaves like a GIF: http://wiki.unity3d.com/index.php?title=Animating_Tiled_texture

Maybe you could try changing it so it shows specific frames. If not, changing materials is very easy to do in Unity but maybe less eficient in memory:

renderer.material = faceMaterial;
 

RawNuts

Member
but maybe a more efficient way to do it would be having all the faces "tiled" in the same texture and change the offset or something. This script animates a texture in Unity so it behaves like a GIF: http://wiki.unity3d.com/index.php?title=Animating_Tiled_texture

Maybe you could try changing it so it shows specific frames. If not, changing materials is very easy to do in Unity but maybe less eficient in memory:

renderer.material = faceMaterial;
I'm working with Unity as well so this is perfect. This looks like a great way to handle it, thank you! I always thought animating the actual UVs was looked down upon as being inefficient but apparently it's fine.

I'll look into this method and if it doesn't work out the next best thing would probably be showing and hiding different sub-meshes that all source the same sheet of expressions like Popstar suggests. Thanks for the responses.
 

Fox1304

Member
This is the best, it's nice to change how you work every now and then. Though I wish i had a standing desk sometimes.

Yes, it was indeed quite refreshing !
I don't have a standing desk, neither do I have a sitting desk lol.
I was watching "Indie Game The Movie" and saw Jonathan Blow code standing, and my bar seemed at the same height, so I thought "why not" :D
 

Fox1304

Member
Adding a few animations, sounds and effects after having coded some game algorythms is a good way to keep motivation to work and get that " a bit more ".
It's good to see things take shape on a more visual point too.
 

GulAtiCa

Member
Sweet! Looks like I'll be able to submit my game to Nintendo lotcheck very very soon. Hopefully if I get everyone done, that means by this weekend.

I took some new screenshots of the game. Really coming together, looks nice in action/live.

tv_2014-01-05_19-16-31.png

AaYrX.jpeg

tv_2014-01-05_19-26-21.png

TV view

gamepad0_2014-01-05_19-16-31.png

Wii U Gamepad view
http://nintendoenthusiast.com/article/developers-log-zacisas-last-stand-new-year-updates/
 

GulAtiCa

Member
Wow, love the art.
Are those real crayons scanned to make the textures?

Yep! I then edit them with paint.net program to make any modifications I need. Like darkening the image, or changing the color. For example, those circles (bot ranges), are all from the same blueish drawing. I took the original and altered the colors with paint.net program, really convenient. I compressed their sizes a good bit (so they are actually 300x300 right now), I think I'll go back and redo it so they are much bigger size.

That big purple drawing took me like an half-hour to draw out. lol
 

Jobbs

Banned
On a whim, I posted a gif of this little enemy killing test in my KS update.

tes4.gif


This needs tweaking, obviously, and some people noted the comedy of the head flying off. I think it's a difficult balance -- I want some satisfying spontaneity to the deaths, I think that feedback adds a lot, but I also don't want something to come off as "silly" in such a way that it detracts from the tone of the game.

If you think back to the games of this legacy, like Super Metroid and Castlevania SOTN, enemies sort of explode. So I sort of follow in this tradition and try to bring it forward a bit by adding some detail and gibs and stuff. But I certainly would never want something to make the game seem "silly" at any point. I guess I have this weird ability to accept things for being "video gamey" without being taken out of the experience.

Any thoughts on that?
 

Jobbs

Banned
Just launched my Kickstarter. You guys can critique it if you like.

http://kck.st/1iLaA8T

I wish you'd asked around (such as asking me) before launching this. There are very, very serious flaws with this kickstarter, not th least of which is a total lack of any gameplay footage. $100k is an incredible bar to reach without any gameplay footage or anything to show.

Entities with established reputations (like Doublefine) can get away with raising vast sums of money without showing any gameplay, but that's because they have big fanbases, long time fans, and credibility. And even then there are some who will frown on them for doing it this way, so they don't come out totally unscathed.

As an upstart, with no game footage or any compelling material in the listing, it'd take an act of god for you to raise $100k or anywhere near it. If this sounds hostile, I assure you I have no hostile intent, I'm just trying to give it to you straight. I hope for the best for all indies.

I wish you the best of luck, I love creators, I love indies, but please be prepared for this to not even come close to reaching that goal.
 

Five

Banned
This needs tweaking, obviously, and some people noted the comedy of the head flying off. I think it's a difficult balance -- I want some satisfying spontaneity to the deaths, I think that feedback adds a lot, but I also don't want something to come off as "silly" in such a way that it detracts from the tone of the game.

If you think back to the games of this legacy, like Super Metroid and Castlevania SOTN, enemies sort of explode. So I sort of follow in this tradition and try to bring it forward a bit by adding some detail and gibs and stuff. But I certainly would never want something to make the game seem "silly" at any point. I guess I have this weird ability to accept things for being "video gamey" without being taken out of the experience.

Any thoughts on that?

I think your enemy design would make perfect sense if it actually looked like it was getting shot in the chest. Right now it looks like it's being grazed on the bicep, then exploding from the chest, and there's a cognitive dissonance when trying to put that together.

But if, say, the abdomen was being shot at, then theoretically there are flammable gases inside of the gastrointestinal systems and those are being lit up by the puncturing energy blasts, resulting in the catapulting decapitation and massive frontal rupturing.

The travel speed of the exploding parts is probably excessive, but this is harder for me to judge without seeing it in relation to similar effects in your game.
 
I wish you'd asked around (such as asking me) before launching this. There are very, very serious flaws with this kickstarter, not th least of which is a total lack of any gameplay footage. $100k is an incredible bar to reach without any gameplay footage or anything to show.

Entities with established reputations (like Doublefine) can get away with raising vast sums of money without showing any gameplay, but that's because they have big fanbases, long time fans, and credibility. And even then there are some who will frown on them for doing it this way, so they don't come out totally unscathed.

As an upstart, with no game footage or any compelling material in the listing, it'd take an act of god for you to raise $100k or anywhere near it. If this sounds hostile, I assure you I have no hostile intent, I'm just trying to give it to you straight. I hope for the best for all indies.

I wish you the best of luck, I love creators, I love indies, but please be prepared for this to not even come close to reaching that goal.

I appreciate your feedback. You make a good point - don't hold back :) I hope to get some gameplay footage up soon.
 

Jobbs

Banned
I think your enemy design would make perfect sense if it actually looked like it was getting shot in the chest. Right now it looks like it's being grazed on the bicep, then exploding from the chest, and there's a cognitive dissonance when trying to put that together.

But if, say, the abdomen was being shot at, then theoretically there are flammable gases inside of the gastrointestinal systems and those are being lit up by the puncturing energy blasts, resulting in the catapulting decapitation and massive frontal rupturing.

The travel speed of the exploding parts is probably excessive, but this is harder for me to judge without seeing it in relation to similar effects in your game.

It'd be cool if every region of his body could be hit and cause a different death, but I don't know if that standard is reasonable to maintain in a game with a lot of enemy types.

I'll definitely be changing some things up, I just don't know exactly what yet.

edit: it's not getting hit in the bicep, I think the collision just wasn't 100% tuned in.
 

Five

Banned
It'd be cool if every region of his body could be hit and cause a different death, but I don't know if that standard is reasonable to maintain in a game with a lot of enemy types.

I'll definitely be changing some things up, I just don't know exactly what yet.

edit: it's not getting hit in the bicep, I think the collision just wasn't 100% tuned in.

I understand where you're coming from, but it seems a bit like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too. Part of the reason games of yore had enemies die in explosions, whether just one blast or a sequence of blasts like SotN, was because then they could kill the character the same way no matter how it was slain (the other part being that the debris didn't have to be left in memory). Slicing through a wolverine with a cutlass and having it explode doesn't make sense unless you accept the silly idea that stuff explodes when it hits a certain pain threshold or dies.

You have an amazing chest explosion and crumple animation that have been realized in great detail, which I'm sure looks absolutely fantastic once the collision is properly sorted. But what would it look like if it got killed by being shot in the feet or legs? There's no easy explanation for why being shot in the legs would cause the chest to explode. When you chose to realize the death in as much detail, you were choosing not to go the silly path of something like spontaneous combustion. Maybe the head popping off feels inspired by exploding enemies to you, but it doesn't come across that way to me.

What with the ghost lore in your game, I'm not sure how well this would work for you, but something you see in certain games is for a soul-like essence to come out of the enemy that had just exploded. If you had something like that in addition to your existing animation, especially if the soul-thing crawled out of the heart cavity, it could start to make more sense. Maybe the soul hit a certain pain threshold, or maybe the body was dead, so the soul decided to burst out of the cavity it was caged inside of.

I guess what I'm trying to say is you should figure out where you are on the sliding scale of "things make sense in my game" and stick to that.
 

Jobbs

Banned
I understand where you're coming from, but it seems a bit like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too. Part of the reason games of yore had enemies die in explosions, whether just one blast or a sequence of blasts like SotN, was because then they could kill the character the same way no matter how it was slain (the other part being that the debris didn't have to be left in memory). Slicing through a wolverine with a cutlass and having it explode doesn't make sense unless you accept the silly idea that stuff explodes when it hits a certain pain threshold or dies.

You have an amazing chest explosion and crumple animation that have been realized in great detail, which I'm sure looks absolutely fantastic once the collision is properly sorted. But what would it look like if it got killed by being shot in the feet or legs? There's no easy explanation for why being shot in the legs would cause the chest to explode. When you chose to realize the death in as much detail, you were choosing not to go the silly path of something like spontaneous combustion. Maybe the head popping off feels inspired by exploding enemies to you, but it doesn't come across that way to me.

What with the ghost lore in your game, I'm not sure how well this would work for you, but something you see in certain games is for a soul-like essence to come out of the enemy that had just exploded. If you had something like that in addition to your existing animation, especially if the soul-thing crawled out of the heart cavity, it could start to make more sense. Maybe the soul hit a certain pain threshold, or maybe the body was dead, so the soul decided to burst out of the cavity it was caged inside of.

I guess what I'm trying to say is you should figure out where you are on the sliding scale of "things make sense in my game" and stick to that.

Good stuff. :)

Incidentally, just to note, the setup I have so far is humanoid enemies can fall forward or fall backward just as general deaths, but with overkill deaths or "shot in the foot" type deaths the whole body just explodes into a bunch of pieces without any particular falling down animation. Like many things, all this may be tuned or changed.
 

Five

Banned
:)

You know, it's times like these when I almost wish I was developing in 3D so I could ragdoll stuff. I've never seen a convincing 2D ragdoll, but maybe that's just because I so rarely see good-looking paper doll characters.
 

Jobbs

Banned
:)

You know, it's times like these when I almost wish I was developing in 3D so I could ragdoll stuff. I've never seen a convincing 2D ragdoll, but maybe that's just because I so rarely see good-looking paper doll characters.

You're quite right, and many things in a 2D game need to be quite stylized in order to work. I mean, the whole game is taking place without a Z axis. This in itself is a logical absurdity.

In making a game with a serious tone, sometimes if I let myself think about these things I start to get annoyed. The trick is to put them out of my mind, and remember that, for whatever reason, people are willing to suspend disbelief for these sidescrollers.
 

Jobbs

Banned
It's definitely not the start I expected. Thinking about cancelling it to retool it with game-play footage.

Kickstarter isn't usually a situation where you just sort of reach in and catch money. You have to show the game and capture peoples' imaginations with it to some degree. And while PR often takes care of itself to *some degree* if the game is good, you do need to get it started.

Who exactly is going to pledge to a campaign by someone they've never heard of who isn't showing them any kind of game? This type of backer largely doesn't exist, that's why you should retool, and I wish you luck. Even with retooling, $100k is a *very* high bar. That's almost double what I got, and I consider my campaign to have been wildly successful.
 

Raonak

Banned
On a whim, I posted a gif of this little enemy killing test in my KS update.

tes4.gif



Any thoughts on that?

It looks good, but it's lacking impact, Im guessing it's probably because you haven't started doing hit reactions yet. But yeah, a hitstun animation would really add a lot. especially if every shot resets the hitstun animation, so you get a nice multi-hit effect. or maybe even just making the sprite flash, but that might make it seem too arcadey.

explosion looks nice, very "viceral". the head could fall a bit faster, it looks a tad floaty.
 
Kickstarter isn't usually a situation where you just sort of reach in and catch money. You have to show the game and capture peoples' imaginations with it to some degree. And while PR often takes care of itself to *some degree* if the game is good, you do need to get it started.

Who exactly is going to pledge to a campaign by someone they've never heard of who isn't showing them any kind of game? This type of backer largely doesn't exist, that's why you should retool, and I wish you luck. Even with retooling, $100k is a *very* high bar. That's almost double what I got, and I consider my campaign to have been wildly successful.

Alright, thanks guys :)

It's been canceled.

Edit - Besides those two things, any other recommendations?
 
Kickstarter isn't usually a situation where you just sort of reach in and catch money. You have to show the game and capture peoples' imaginations with it to some degree. And while PR often takes care of itself to *some degree* if the game is good, you do need to get it started.

Who exactly is going to pledge to a campaign by someone they've never heard of who isn't showing them any kind of game? This type of backer largely doesn't exist, that's why you should retool, and I wish you luck. Even with retooling, $100k is a *very* high bar. That's almost double what I got, and I consider my campaign to have been wildly successful.

Oh, nevermind :)

Your game looks great BTW. I love the style. Are you doing the graphics yourself?
 
Edit - Besides those two things, any other recommendations?

I think you should include which games your team members have worked on before, if any. Right now you speak of experience in general but give no details. It would help give people confidence in the team if they can check out previous projects.
 

Jobbs

Banned
Alright, thanks guys :)

It's been canceled.

Edit - Besides those two things, any other recommendations?

I've developed an opinion on gaming kickstarter presentations based on my experience running one and pledging towards a number of them... The most important thing? As mentioned, gameplay. The proof's in the pudding, and it needs to be in the headline video. And it needs to be right at the beginning of the headline video. It's nice to meet you and hear your thoughts, but in most cases stuff like this isn't terribly compelling unless you've already made fans of people. You want to get straight to the game. Show it in the best possible light you can, and try to spark peoples' imaginations. Have an angle. Have a way of conveying to people what it's like to play your game. If you must, invoke other games to do so.

There's an argument to be made that just showing a polished trailer of the game by itself and making a simple statement that way, without any talky stuff cluttering it up, is even more effective because it alludes to all the things that aren't there. It makes people fill in the blanks and project their wishes onto the game. Hyperlight Drifter and Radio The Universe are both good examples of this.

If you don't have any examples of polished gameplay to show, like from some small vertical slice or some small prototype, that looks good, then I would highly recommend you spend some of your own time getting this done and getting it to look good. This is how you sell a game -- By making the game sell itself.

Also -- I'm not sure what your budget is or whether $100k is truly the minimum you can get by on, but in almsot any case, this is an incredibly high bar to clear, and many fantastic games have funded without getting anywhere near this. The games reaching $100k and beyond are either big studio efforts or indy efforts that caught fire and exploded unexpectedly. You can't plan for that. At least, I don't think you can.

Oh, nevermind :)

Your game looks great BTW. I love the style. Are you doing the graphics yourself?

Thank you very much. :) Yes, I do all the art in the game.
 

Feep

Banned
Also -- I'm not sure what your budget is or whether $100k is truly the minimum you can get by on, but in almsot any case, this is an incredibly high bar to clear, and many fantastic games have funded without getting anywhere near this. The games reaching $100k and beyond are either big studio efforts or indy efforts that caught fire and exploded unexpectedly. You can't plan for that. At least, I don't think you can.
Well, you can get a C-list nerd celebrity to help you out. ;)

I would add that if you *do* include video of yourself, you need to do it way, way better than that. That was twenty dollar webcam no lighting no background no makeup no editing no shot diversity no anything. I'm not saying you need to hire a Hollywood film crew, but if you want a hundred thousand dollars (or, I don't know, twenty thousand), it doesn't hurt to throw some cash in to the production. You'll get what you put into it.
 

Five

Banned
Alright, thanks guys :)

It's been canceled.

Edit - Besides those two things, any other recommendations?

What's your elevator sales pitch? Tim Schafer of Double Fine was able to ask "When was the last time you played an adventure game like I used to make?" Jobbs asked "Has there been any game to scratch the Metroid itch since, well, the last 2D Metroid?"

Yours says "Rolan's Quest brings back what you love about Zelda". Back? From where? What I love about Zelda is still in recent Zelda titles like Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword and A Link Between Worlds, but it's also been taken and adapted to make every kind of game from Fable to Darksiders. What I love about Zelda is that it got the train rolling for adventure games, but now that's one of the widest genres there is. So you're going to have to be more specific than that.

Don't front load the viewer with back story and monologue, especially if it's not expertly written. You can compress most of the first four paragraphs to "In a world where people gain strange and magical powers from the shattered remnants of a divine obelisk, one crystalline fragment held a mysterious power greater than all of the others." It gets the point across, gives people a taste of the world they'll be in, and lets you get to some of the more important details quicker.

Some of the text is hard to take seriously, as well. "It was called Enhance. Nobody knew what it did." They seem to know that it enhances stuff, so what isn't known? "He was a good man, a general." You can't casually state someone is a military leader after calling them good as not everyone is pro-military. A better way of phrasing such a thing would be like "He was a great general who had served the land faithfully." A text editor to help pick up inconsistencies like this is a must, especially if your game is going to have a lot of text.

Make the art consistent. In the characters part, I see two renderings of Rolan, but they're of vastly different art style. Shovel Knight was able to get away with having two very different art styles on its page because it was clear that some of it was simply promotional material and the rest was in-game art or simulating the aesthetic of the in-game artwork. Such a distinction is not easily made with the artwork you have on your page.

I'll admit that my curiosity has been piqued after reading through the text on your page, but mostly for the wrong reasons. I have questions like how was a smith trained by an old man (Rolan's grandfather), and who taught him to fight? Smithing and forging is a profession for strong people who can operate heavy tools and machinery while wearing heavy protection to fend off very high heats, which isn't usually something a grandfather figure is adept at. Rolan lives in a small town, so it's seems likely that his father was one of few smiths, possibly the only one, so it doesn't seem like there would be anyone to teach Rolan. Who was Rolan making that fancy, gold-inlaid sword for? He should be feeling honored just to look a blade that elaborate!

I realize I'm over-analyzing, but that's because I feel like the truth is a far more sobering "he has a cool-looking sword because cool stuff looks cool and he comes from a small hometown because that's humbling and all the cool heroes do." If other people are getting the same impression that I am, then the game just comes across as a generic adventure RPG. You don't want people to think that. You want them to see why it's different, why it's better, why it's something they haven't seen before or haven't seen in a long time.

Recap:
- What's your elevator pitch?
- Don't bog down with details.
- Check text and make sure your world makes sense.
- Have art be consistent or explain the different styles.
 

Jobbs

Banned
Valdis Story was originally a Kickstarter project. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/460275866/valdis-story-abyssal-city

It had an $8,000 goal and raised $49k. And the end result is an incredible game that is universally loved. You can (and should) go buy it on Steam right now. I'd gladly pledge to their next project, and guess what, if they did a new KS, I bet it'd raise five or ten times what their last one did.

While they didn't open with gameplay as I prefer, they did have lots of great looking gameplay to show, nonetheless, which is the important part.
 

Blizzard

Banned
I finally started making some progress again on a tool for game development...and then I realized that the tool (and a game test) using SFML are using 100% of two different cores, for a total of 50% CPU utilization. It should basically be 0%. What a sad problem!

I need to look into it more, but it would appear that for some reason two different threads are grinding in the SFML function that waits for vsync, instead of everything just blocking until vsync like I would expect.
 
I think you should include which games your team members have worked on before, if any. Right now you speak of experience in general but give no details. It would help give people confidence in the team if they can check out previous projects.

I've developed an opinion on gaming kickstarter presentations based on my experience running one and pledging towards a number of them... The most important thing? As mentioned, gameplay. The proof's in the pudding, and it needs to be in the headline video. And it needs to be right at the beginning of the headline video. It's nice to meet you and hear your thoughts, but in most cases stuff like this isn't terribly compelling unless you've already made fans of people. You want to get straight to the game. Show it in the best possible light you can, and try to spark peoples' imaginations. Have an angle. Have a way of conveying to people what it's like to play your game. If you must, invoke other games to do so.

There's an argument to be made that just showing a polished trailer of the game by itself and making a simple statement that way, without any talky stuff cluttering it up, is even more effective because it alludes to all the things that aren't there. It makes people fill in the blanks and project their wishes onto the game. Hyperlight Drifter and Radio The Universe are both good examples of this.

If you don't have any examples of polished gameplay to show, like from some small vertical slice or some small prototype, that looks good, then I would highly recommend you spend some of your own time getting this done and getting it to look good. This is how you sell a game -- By making the game sell itself.

Also -- I'm not sure what your budget is or whether $100k is truly the minimum you can get by on, but in almsot any case, this is an incredibly high bar to clear, and many fantastic games have funded without getting anywhere near this. The games reaching $100k and beyond are either big studio efforts or indy efforts that caught fire and exploded unexpectedly. You can't plan for that. At least, I don't think you can.



Thank you very much. :) Yes, I do all the art in the game.

Valdis Story was originally a Kickstarter project. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/460275866/valdis-story-abyssal-city

It had an $8,000 goal and raised $49k. And the end result is an incredible game that is universally loved. You can (and should) go buy it on Steam right now. I'd gladly pledge to their next project, and guess what, if they did a new KS, I bet it'd raise five or ten times what their last one did.

While they didn't open with gameplay as I prefer, they did have lots of great looking gameplay to show, nonetheless, which is the important part.

What's your elevator sales pitch? Tim Schafer of Double Fine was able to ask "When was the last time you played an adventure game like I used to make?" Jobbs asked "Has there been any game to scratch the Metroid itch since, well, the last 2D Metroid?"

Yours says "Rolan's Quest brings back what you love about Zelda". Back? From where? What I love about Zelda is still in recent Zelda titles like Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword and A Link Between Worlds, but it's also been taken and adapted to make every kind of game from Fable to Darksiders. What I love about Zelda is that it got the train rolling for adventure games, but now that's one of the widest genres there is. So you're going to have to be more specific than that.

Don't front load the viewer with back story and monologue, especially if it's not expertly written. You can compress most of the first four paragraphs to "In a world where people gain strange and magical powers from the shattered remnants of a divine obelisk, one crystalline fragment held a mysterious power greater than all of the others." It gets the point across, gives people a taste of the world they'll be in, and lets you get to some of the more important details quicker.

Some of the text is hard to take seriously, as well. "It was called Enhance. Nobody knew what it did." They seem to know that it enhances stuff, so what isn't known? "He was a good man, a general." You can't casually state someone is a military leader after calling them good as not everyone is pro-military. A better way of phrasing such a thing would be like "He was a great general who had served the land faithfully." A text editor to help pick up inconsistencies like this is a must, especially if your game is going to have a lot of text.

Make the art consistent. In the characters part, I see two renderings of Rolan, but they're of vastly different art style. Shovel Knight was able to get away with having two very different art styles on its page because it was clear that some of it was simply promotional material and the rest was in-game art or simulating the aesthetic of the in-game artwork. Such a distinction is not easily made with the artwork you have on your page.

I'll admit that my curiosity has been piqued after reading through the text on your page, but mostly for the wrong reasons. I have questions like how was a smith trained by an old man (Rolan's grandfather), and who taught him to fight? Smithing and forging is a profession for strong people who can operate heavy tools and machinery while wearing heavy protection to fend off very high heats, which isn't usually something a grandfather figure is adept at. Rolan lives in a small town, so it's seems likely that his father was one of few smiths, possibly the only one, so it doesn't seem like there would be anyone to teach Rolan. Who was Rolan making that fancy, gold-inlaid sword for? He should be feeling honored just to look a blade that elaborate!

I realize I'm over-analyzing, but that's because I feel like the truth is a far more sobering "he has a cool-looking sword because cool stuff looks cool and he comes from a small hometown because that's humbling and all the cool heroes do." If other people are getting the same impression that I am, then the game just comes across as a generic adventure RPG. You don't want people to think that. You want them to see why it's different, why it's better, why it's something they haven't seen before or haven't seen in a long time.

Recap:
- What's your elevator pitch?
- Don't bog down with details.
- Check text and make sure your world makes sense.
- Have art be consistent or explain the different styles.

Well, you can get a C-list nerd celebrity to help you out. ;)

I would add that if you *do* include video of yourself, you need to do it way, way better than that. That was twenty dollar webcam no lighting no background no makeup no editing no shot diversity no anything. I'm not saying you need to hire a Hollywood film crew, but if you want a hundred thousand dollars (or, I don't know, twenty thousand), it doesn't hurt to throw some cash in to the production. You'll get what you put into it.


Awesome! Thanks for all the tips guys. It's really invaluable. I have my head focused now on delivery. I need to give it all on my next Kickstarter, and don't launch it until it is ready. The last one was rushed... :(
 
Jobbs said:
Valdis Story was originally a Kickstarter project. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...y-abyssal-city

It had an $8,000 goal and raised $49k. And the end result is an incredible game that is universally loved. You can (and should) go buy it on Steam right now. I'd gladly pledge to their next project, and guess what, if they did a new KS, I bet it'd raise five or ten times what their last one did.

While they didn't open with gameplay as I prefer, they did have lots of great looking gameplay to show, nonetheless, which is the important part.

Wow! This game looks amazing, how did I miss this? Don't tell me, it was on Sale on Steam wasn't it? Wasn't it? aaarrrggghhh
 

Blizzard

Banned
Answering half my own question:

nVidia control panel has a "Threaded optimization" setting. If I set it to auto, my application uses 50% CPU (two cores maxed out). If I set it to off, it uses 25% CPU.
So somehow the nVidia driver itself is splitting the rendering into two threads/processes. Either way, it appears to be doing some sort of busy loop instead of idly waiting for vsync, unless that's just an artifact of how the GTX 770 driver handles waiting on vsync. I have yet to dig into the Display() code and see what OpenGL API(s) it's calling. I've heard it's just a swap buffer call perhaps.
 

Jobbs

Banned
What? And I'm chopped liver?!

nah, there are only a few "major" roles but there are like 8 minor roles.. could use the help when the time comes!

Wow! This game looks amazing, how did I miss this? Don't tell me, it was on Sale on Steam wasn't it? Wasn't it? aaarrrggghhh

I paid $15 for it long before the sale and am happy to have done so. If a team of two puts out a game on this level, I'm happy to support it.
 

Lissar

Reluctant Member
Ludum Dare results are out.

I improved my ranking in every category except for Theme (which I wasn't too concerned about to begin with).

Wish I had done better in graphics, but overall my scores were decent and I can't complain too much.
 

Five

Banned
Jobbs, can I get a link to your successful Kickstarter page? Your game is looking great, by the way.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1192311215/ghost-song-a-journey-of-hope

Ludum Dare results are out.

I improved my ranking in every category except for Theme (which I wasn't too concerned about to begin with).

Wish I had done better in graphics, but overall my scores were decent and I can't complain too much.

Congrats, and better luck next time!
 

Noogy

Member
Alright, thanks guys :)

It's been canceled.

Edit - Besides those two things, any other recommendations?

Yeah, that's a lot to ask for. Zeboyd recently Kickstarted Cosmic Star Heroine, exceeding their 100k goal. But they are relatively well-established and have a growing fanbase, along with a number of successful titles under their belt.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1596638143/cosmic-star-heroine-sci-fi-spy-rpg-for-pc-mac-ps4

They didn't show footage from the game, but I did help them put together a teaser, which I like to believe helped.

You either need some amazing footage or a really interesting and engaging pitch... preferably both.

Get your dimensional exploring pal to do a cameo in my game. ;) There are a number of small roles to fill.

Cameos, you say? Interested, says I.
 

razu

Member
Ludum Dare results are out.

I improved my ranking in every category except for Theme (which I wasn't too concerned about to begin with).

Wish I had done better in graphics, but overall my scores were decent and I can't complain too much.

These are my results, (my game is here):

Ratings
#229 Graphics 3.50
#261 Theme 3.31
#389 Fun 3.00
#390 Audio 2.73
#491 Overall 3.00
#605 Innovation 2.75
#1516 Coolness 26%


My game was 26% cool! ;D

Again, I heavily recommend Ludum Dare to people who haven't done it. It's really good fun! :D
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
@SlipperSlope: You already have two great people here to help, but I'll say it just the same.

The pitch video should be rehearsed, rerecorded, clear, and look like something you'd show someone to ask for $20,000 or $50,000, or whatever it is. Get a clear mic (Hell, I'll sell you my Blue Yeti for cheap), clear camera, and decide if your own personality and voice is good or bad for raising money based on what tone / sales pitch you are going for (i.e. sometimes gameplay footage, art slides, and trailers could be better suited, or get a voice actor)
I didn't feel much passion and humility in your video (and like the others already said asking 100k out the gate is insanely high, go check all of KS's successful fundraisers).

Combine that with no established base (Gameplay, art, past works) and it needs some work. The Cosmic Star Heroine pitch and video is a fantastic example of how to do it imo. Great talking about their project, past projects, where they are at, who and what they are currently doing, what backer involvement means, and really ASKING for pledges. Good passion, energy, and humble.

That said, all the best on your game and future KickStarters!
On a whim, I posted a gif of this little enemy killing test in my KS update.

tes4.gif


This needs tweaking, obviously, and some people noted the comedy of the head flying off. I think it's a difficult balance -- I want some satisfying spontaneity to the deaths, I think that feedback adds a lot, but I also don't want something to come off as "silly" in such a way that it detracts from the tone of the game.
I think the main thing that makes it feel gamey (and obviously you have your own visions of your game) is that the head flies far too high and too fast. The little bits are light and have little mass so they can fly off quickly, but the head feels like it should have a lot of mass and maybe go up a tiny bit just before falling from gravity. $0.02.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Further results from testing and asking people on IRC: It has been suggested that some drivers on Windows (like, perhaps, my GTX 770 drivers) cause heavy CPU usage with vsync. I assume this is because they are doing a busy loop to wait instead of some sort of notification mechanism, however that might work.

Has anyone else ever run into this? If people have 2-4 cores it might not be an issue, but I would like for my engine to run on slow machines if at all possible. Of course, those machines might have different drivers so again it might be fine. :p

*edit* Looks like this sort of thing, and there isn't really a workaround that I can see besides sleeping or yielding yourself before vsync'ing:
https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/540366/opengl-vsync-swapbuffers-100-cpu-core/
http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/qu...y-after-start-up-when-wglswapintervalext-is-e
 

Lissar

Reluctant Member
Congrats, and better luck next time!

Thank you!

These are my results, (my game is here):

Ratings
#229 Graphics 3.50
#261 Theme 3.31
#389 Fun 3.00
#390 Audio 2.73
#491 Overall 3.00
#605 Innovation 2.75
#1516 Coolness 26%


My game was 26% cool! ;D

Again, I heavily recommend Ludum Dare to people who haven't done it. It's really good fun! :D

Haha, you need to rate more games to be cool! Mine was 90% cool. So close.

My rankings:

#18 Mood(Jam) 4.02
#39 Overall(Jam) 3.82
#51 Graphics(Jam) 4.28
#123 Audio(Jam) 3.36
#164 Fun(Jam) 3.16
#236 Theme(Jam) 2.85
#247 Humor(Jam) 2.43
#299 Innovation(Jam) 2.76
 

missile

Member
I really like how people in here have a take on SlipperSlope's kickstarter
in helping him out. :+


... I mean, the whole game is taking place without a Z axis. This in itself is a logical absurdity. ...
I guess you use one hidden within the rendering order (priority) of your
sprites. ;)
 
Man, reading this thread the past couple of days and seeing all of the different projects has been some kind of inspiration, that's for sure. I've been meaning to take up a personal project (both as a change of pace and improving my skillset), and I think this thread will actually keep me committed/help me focus on actually making and producing something.

Right now, it's going to be an Android game (as a way to refresh myself on programming a native app + dive into the 4.x feature sets). I have some ideas jotted down, but right now I'm gonna try to get the UI and activity flow basics set so I can build on top of that.

My plan of attack would be to get a bulk of the codebase done, and then figure out something for art/sound, or at least build enough of a base where I can easily break it out into separate components and cycle through those. Probably some light TDD as I go to get back into those habits, and pretty much do things I haven't done in the last couple of years at my old job (arguably when I should've gotten my lazy ass to work on this).
 

Fox1304

Member
Just launched my Kickstarter. You guys can critique it if you like.

http://kck.st/1iLaA8T

I think your first stretch goal is quite ... strange too.
50% of your base funding only offering a single town and dungeon seems quite off.

Edit : after a second look, I think a lot of your stretch goals are.
- "Better story" doesn't bodes well, it's not something that can be bought. I think the problem is in the phrasing, but it's a tricky line.
- 50k for a hard mode, 50k for " more items ". That's, again, 50% of your base funding. And the same price than voice acting, which costs a lot, I think, compared to "hard mode".
 

Noogy

Member
I think the main thing that makes it feel gamey (and obviously you have your own visions of your game) is that the head flies far too high and too fast. The little bits are light and have little mass so they can fly off quickly, but the head feels like it should have a lot of mass and maybe go up a tiny bit just before falling from gravity. $0.02.

Clearly spoken as a man who has had much experience blowing bodies to bits.
 
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