Don't let it get to you, Jobbs. Trust me, you'll have to develop a tough skin once you actually ship the game. Just trust your gut and make what you want. I initially had many sleepless nights after launch until I realized you can't and shouldn't try to please everyone.
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Indie Game Development Discussion Thread | Of Being Professionally Poor
- Thread starter chubigans
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Don't let it get to you, Jobbs. Trust me, you'll have to develop a tough skin once you actually ship the game. Just trust your gut and make what you want. I initially had many sleepless nights after launch until I realized you can't and shouldn't try to please everyone.
Rolling fog... I can do that...
I like that idea
Oh and yeah fog plays into more than just aesthetics in the game. In fact, one of my design philosophies is to try and make things that usually are there just for visual purposes and give them gameplay ramifications.
For example: Day/Night cycle that actually drives the gameplay. Weather affecting your status (Not in yet, but let's say it rains and its cold, so you get sick. Or if its raining, you can't start a fire, that sort of thing). The fog is definitely supernatural and we're actually going to use it as a way to guide the player in a way. No invisible walls here, but fog with scary and deadly things in it? Yes.
We'll throw in some variation too, perhaps make a foggy area that makes you get lost in it and you have to use flares/guides to find your way out. I seriously do mean that we're trying to take what other games see as nice visual elements and really own them and make them part of gameplay.
This game is gameplay over anything else.
I approve of ramifications.
Yup. It can be very, very harsh.
Yep. Like any public facing work everyone's going to have an opinion. I've found the indie space to be a little more supportive than the masses when working on "AAA" stuff but the general attitudes are the same.
My favorite was the discord between people hating stuff I loved and people loving stuff I felt like I fell totally flat on and just threw together. Everyone has a different trigger and you never know whats going to set them off.
Of course, the flip side is listening too much to your audience. Listening to what ends up usually being a very vocal minority means you've made a great game for that minority, potentially not so much for everyone else. But I digress.
Make the game you want to make and see what fits. They're all kind of crap shoots TBH. Generally speaking though, if you're profit driven you want to get the money up front. Unless your game is super sticky you're going to get very short play sessions and there's tons of competition so people won't usually stick around for add-on content or the like.
The nice part is it's really easy to experiment on mobile and try different configurations and change ad providers and what not with updates so you can see what works for you and your product.
(Also talking about ads makes me feel super gross but it's a total necessity)
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
When I released my first game on iOS, some guy begged me for a free code at Touch Arcade forums. I thought 'I don't have many codes but oh well at least he might do a nice write up'' and gave him one. Ten minutes later he posts to the forum 'this game sucks guys. Don't bother buying it'
That's when I realised it was gonna be a rough ride.
Seems that way, for the mobile market.
Got our first sale for our android game today (after over a week, as you can see), and it was basically a pity sale from a friend.
Had some traction and good comments on the trailer, but even 0.99/equivalent$ is too much for people to pay up front if you haven't generated a whole heap of buzz, it seems.
Edit: Now with actual correct link -_-
Just_myles
Member
Jarekx said:
I like the look. I can picture your backgrounds bringing a lot to the table. Palette is pretty awesome as well.
@Jobbs
Man your stuff looks more and more refreshing. I may not have backed, but I will pay full retail for this. I anticipate the games completion.
Thaumaturgic Tomato
Member
Rolling fog... I can do that...
I like that idea
Oh and yeah fog plays into more than just aesthetics in the game. In fact, one of my design philosophies is to try and make things that usually are there just for visual purposes and give them gameplay ramifications.
For example: Day/Night cycle that actually drives the gameplay. Weather affecting your status (Not in yet, but let's say it rains and its cold, so you get sick. Or if its raining, you can't start a fire, that sort of thing). The fog is definitely supernatural and we're actually going to use it as a way to guide the player in a way. No invisible walls here, but fog with scary and deadly things in it? Yes.
We'll throw in some variation too, perhaps make a foggy area that makes you get lost in it and you have to use flares/guides to find your way out. I seriously do mean that we're trying to take what other games see as nice visual elements and really own them and make them part of gameplay.
This game is gameplay over anything else.
Actually simulation of a fluid is a very expensive effect. Will require some trickery to make it very smooth and not make it look like a bunch of alpha blended image files moving around. I don't have the answer of course. Hope you figure out a cool looking way to do it cheaply. GPU's just can't do it yet on a significant scale in-game.
I am waiting for the day where we can get "dry ice" rolling fog cheaply. Look up videos of "advection fog". It's mesmerizing, and one imagines a demon horde is hiding behind the wall and advancing on the world. Advection fog is like large scale dry ice.
Basically anything that looks like dry ice fog would be fantastic but good simulation is expensive for now. Gonna be a tricky trick to pull off using other tricks.
Examples:
Just like these poor fisherman recently recorded on Lake Michigan. They wouldn't speak after the event, their young brown hair had turned snow white and they looked as if they aged decades. We'll never know what they saw behind that fog. ->
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9jlBF00w4w
Time lapsed fog is best. This would look cool in a game ->
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEPtjh9O6Qw
So I figured I'll share with y'all what I've been working on for the past couple months. It's called Murder at Mystery Manor and it's a online multiplayer murder-mystery game for up to eight players, made in Unity.
From our official page:
Heavily inspired from Clue and the party game Mafia. Each player has a particular class that has a certain investigative skillset. They've got to work together, communicate, and search for clues to figure out who committed the crime.
Anyway, my first two blog posts about it:
http://minicorestudios.com/blog/murder-at-mystery-manor-details-from-the-lead-dev
http://minicorestudios.com/blog/murder-at-mystery-manor-details-from-the-dev-part-ii
I'm trying to keep a fairly active dev blog. So every couple weeks or we should have some sort of update. Art is super placeholder, our artist is hard at work doing some modelling right now. We've got quite a cast of characters planned.
Some pretty renders:
Here's some early screens of the game in action with programmer art:
I hope to have some sweet concept art for ya'll in a couple weeks with some more characters. Also, we're looking to do an open alpha at some point in the next few months.
From our official page:
Heavily inspired from Clue and the party game Mafia. Each player has a particular class that has a certain investigative skillset. They've got to work together, communicate, and search for clues to figure out who committed the crime.
Anyway, my first two blog posts about it:
http://minicorestudios.com/blog/murder-at-mystery-manor-details-from-the-lead-dev
http://minicorestudios.com/blog/murder-at-mystery-manor-details-from-the-dev-part-ii
I'm trying to keep a fairly active dev blog. So every couple weeks or we should have some sort of update. Art is super placeholder, our artist is hard at work doing some modelling right now. We've got quite a cast of characters planned.
Some pretty renders:
Here's some early screens of the game in action with programmer art:
I hope to have some sweet concept art for ya'll in a couple weeks with some more characters. Also, we're looking to do an open alpha at some point in the next few months.
This is an accurate picture of releasing a game.
Also, be prepared for scum approaching you every day. Asking for the code to your game, telling you they can get you massive sales, etc... It's unending.
But, on the bright side.. I made my own game!
You, YOU'RE the person!This is an accurate picture of releasing a game.
Also, be prepared for scum approaching you every day. Asking for the code to your game, telling you they can get you massive sales, etc... It's unending.
But, on the bright side.. I made my own game!
I saw a daily deal on Steam yesterday, and it was some game with colors and maybe battleships. I'm like, that game looks familiar, someone probably used to post screenshots in the indie thread. It was all, VAMFLAX or something.
I really hope this comes together well, because the concept itself is really awesome! I love that Spy Party inspired you.
I remember going on Touch Arcade forums as well after releasing our first iOS title, and taking feedback from the members for updates; wasn't too impressed with the mentality of people there, I hate to use this term but a lot of members seemed rather "entitled" and rude considering what they're paying for an iOS title. Strangely enough, I ended up getting more useful feedback from just searching around and lurking other sites.
My comment was more about committing yourself to a style, not a jab or an insult. He shouldn't need thick skin for that, I think he was just stressed after the response he was getting from the CA example.
I personally always try to be my own harshest critic, so that I'm not surprised by any negative feedback. I learned through my college courses to never be married to my work, and I pretty much just figure that everything I make sucks until someone else says otherwise. I hope I'm not the only one with this kind of mentality; it almost seems depressing when I describe it, lol. :S
Categorically untrue. I welcome and am always okay with sincere criticism of the work itself, and the tone of my responses prior to the insults I think will bear that out. It was your snarky remark that followed that was out of bounds. If anyone doubts what you "meant" they only need to actually read your posts. Now you're backpedaling as well as characterizing me negatively. Mod said to move on, so move on.
Axispowers
Member
Looking for a programmer to help me with a 2D endless runner on Unity. I've been surfin the Unity/TIG Forums and not finding the person I'm looking for. Thought I would try and find someone here! I'm paying hourly. PM me if you're lookin for some work.
Then you won't mind if I share an extended opinion on it?
You may have already heard my opinion from Rekcah earlier, but I think you should commit yourself to whatever you're choosing to do. You're implementing the chromatic aberration effect which is a physical lens effect that often comes into play when trying to achieve photo-realism through a camera view.
But, are you implementing the effect because it's accurate, or because it looks cool? If you're attempting an accurate portrayal of camera effects (or visor effects if the screen is meant to mimic the character when taking damage or in certain environments), there are plenty of other things to implement to help complete the package. Like I said, lens dirt is one of them and is something that is completely expected from a visor, and it helps sell the scene in situations with an intense light source. If you think I hate lens dirt or believe that it's a cheap effect, you couldn't be more wrong; I come from a background in compositing after all. Bloom is what would be a cheap effect.
However, if you're using it because it looks cool, then why limit yourself to an accurate CA lens effect? This is an alien, unfamiliar world that the player is in and you've nailed that atmosphere so far; if you're looking to chill the player during certain moments of the game, you present them with something equally unfamiliar. You can be extremely creative with your effects instead of having something that is already very familiar to our senses, especially if you're using it for when a ghost appears or something. Let your imagination run wild and try to reproduce the feel of what is going on.
This is a concept we see in a lot of horror games; the more unfamiliar the setting and effects, the more unsettling it often is. It's why Japanese horror games often seem scarier to us westerners than western-developed titles, because there is already a culture gap that makes things unfamiliar to us. I know your game isn't exactly going for "horror," but your atmosphere lends itself to that feeling, in a similar way to Metroid Prime. Extra Credits did a good episode concerning this, and your game would be all the better if you consider that mentality when going forward.
If you're only implementing a handful of effects and not going in either of those directions I mentioned, I just feel like the result is something that's stuck in the middle. It's your game though of course; this is just my opinion, but give it some consideration.
Also, there is no backpedaling. I don't beat around the bush or make "snarky" remarks; if I don't like something, I come out and say so, you already know that well. I don't care how you read posts in your mind, but there is never ill-will behind anything I say on GAF, and everything in my post history shows just that; I can simply contact you on aim if I want to say anything negative, but I'll never do it here.
BlastProcessing
Member
I just played all the way through the game I have been working on for over 2 years. Got a little misty. Feels good man.
If your post history indeed reflects that, I guess I was hallucinating when I saw the mod tell you to knock it off and move on, neither of which have you done. I'll say absolutely nothing else on this matter.
People saying your work is bad/wrong/ill advised/an affront to humanity is painful. Game development, and art in general, is a very personal journey. Very few people can simply weather the storm of negativity with no effect.
Teknopathetic
Member
Any other posts about the CA thing (including responses to this post) will result in a vacation.
I just finished one of those situations where things get unexpectedly involved.
1. I thought, I should implement pause while alt-tabbed, might as well do that while I am thinking of it.
2. I discover that SFML may have a bug, fixed in the later (development?) versions, where you don't get focus events in Windows if someone alt-tabs and then clicks back on the window.
3. I grumble a bunch because I didn't want to upgrade, but finally download the source and rebuild SFML release and debug builds.
4. I try to build my engine, see a ton of errors, and think "I've made a terrible mistake."
Fortunately it turned out that the vast majority of errors were caused by a bunch (but not all?) SFML methods and member variables getting renamed to use an initial lowercase letter instead of an uppercase letter. Also, sf::Texture::bind is now a static method. One side benefit of upgrading was that I seem to be able to get rid of the customization/bug fix changes I had made to SFML, with one exception, adding caps lock support. I seem to recall the author(s) of SFML do not believe humans should be able to treat caps lock as an ordinary pressable key, so I fixed that.
In the end I got the errors fixed, and now I'm running with the latest version, so I shall optimistically hope I don't ever have to upgrade again! I also have engine pause on alt-tab working, which is cool.
1. I thought, I should implement pause while alt-tabbed, might as well do that while I am thinking of it.
2. I discover that SFML may have a bug, fixed in the later (development?) versions, where you don't get focus events in Windows if someone alt-tabs and then clicks back on the window.
3. I grumble a bunch because I didn't want to upgrade, but finally download the source and rebuild SFML release and debug builds.
4. I try to build my engine, see a ton of errors, and think "I've made a terrible mistake."
Fortunately it turned out that the vast majority of errors were caused by a bunch (but not all?) SFML methods and member variables getting renamed to use an initial lowercase letter instead of an uppercase letter. Also, sf::Texture::bind is now a static method. One side benefit of upgrading was that I seem to be able to get rid of the customization/bug fix changes I had made to SFML, with one exception, adding caps lock support. I seem to recall the author(s) of SFML do not believe humans should be able to treat caps lock as an ordinary pressable key, so I fixed that.
In the end I got the errors fixed, and now I'm running with the latest version, so I shall optimistically hope I don't ever have to upgrade again! I also have engine pause on alt-tab working, which is cool.
I feel like the important thing is to make it constructive by explaining how you feel, not necessarily why you think you feel that way or how you think you would 'fix' it.
There's definitely a skill involved in taking criticism and interpreting feedback, for the longest time I would get angry at people making infantile accusations and insisting on changes I knew to be irrelevant, but once I realized that the one completely true part was how they felt then it became a lot easier for me to deal with things and solve problems (If indeed I think it's a problem).
In this particular case it looks like things just got out of hand crazy fast but I still find this an interesting topic, even in a safe place like GAF and with a developer like Jobbs who has many friends (Hopefully I'm on that list) things can get out of control. On the slightly less friendly Steam forums we had someone accuse us of not implementing their suggested changes because we outsource all of our work to third world sweat shops and had run out of money, because they couldn't imagine a world in which our design choice was better than theirs.
Yes! This is exactly how I look at things, and I've very much reflected on this in the past. If people are telling you something, whether or not you think they don't know what they're talking about or are wrong, the way they feel is never wrong. So, unless you plan to sell the game only to people you prescreen to be qualified to interpret it the way you want, then you should listen.
I say in all sincerity, if someone attacks my work, it rarely bothers me. If someone says -- "I don't like <thing>, you should do <thing>." I have no problem there, and I have learned, I feel, to contextualize properly feedback as it is received. Some of it has to be sort of shelved and handled a bit like noise, and I don't mean this to be callous or mean, but if you chase after every single suggestion and demand from the casual onlooker you'll never finish anything. You need to stay on target with your vision, and, more importantly, HAVE a vision.
The time to internalize more what people are saying are in, IMO, three cases: 1) it's a lot of voices saying the same thing independently of eachother 2) it's someone with great credibility and/or they make a very persuasive case 3) it's feedback from one or more people that is reinforcing something you were already concerned about
And yes, Paz, I'd be happy to consider you as a friend.
Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?"
"That depends a good deal on where you want to get to."
"I don't much care where "
"Then it doesn't matter which way you go.
One of my favorite quotes from Alice in Wonderland
Yes! This is exactly how I look at things, and I've very much reflected on this in the past. If people are telling you something, whether or not you think they don't know what they're talking about or are wrong, the way they feel is never wrong. So, unless you plan to sell the game only to people you prescreen to be qualified to interpret it the way you want, then you should listen.
I say in all sincerity, if someone attacks my work, it rarely bothers me. If someone says -- "I don't like <thing>, you should do <thing>." I have no problem there, and I have learned, I feel, to contextualize properly feedback as it is received. Some of it has to be sort of shelved and handled a bit like noise, and I don't mean this to be callous or mean, but if you chase after every single suggestion and demand from the casual onlooker you'll never finish anything. You need to stay on target with your vision, and, more importantly, HAVE a vision.
The time to internalize more what people are saying are in, IMO, three cases: 1) it's a lot of voices saying the same thing independently of eachother 2) it's someone with great credibility and/or they make a very persuasive case 3) it's feedback from one or more people that is reinforcing something you were already concerned about
And yes, Paz, I'd be happy to consider you as a friend.
#3 True enough. Usually you have an idea something isn't right before you get the feedback, but the inner optimist hopes you get away with it!
I started off handling feedback the worst way. I'd get into conversations, which would prove unproductive. Best to take the feedback, thank them, and ponder it for a bit. I found the people who fed back with questions, (please don't ever do this), seemed to want in on designing MY game! If I'm making the fucker, then I'm designing it thank you very much!!
RicoTheMad
Banned
Ah I see, well my fog is volumetric but fixed in a particular geometric shape. Making it fluid would indeed be very cool but imho, too much effort for the payoff unless it was my main game mechanic. I'd rather abstract the idea away a little and disguise it a bit for gameplay purposes, so I can have my fog volume and surround it with alpha blended particles to give it an irregular look. It won't do the cool flowing fog thing, but I was always imagining things being inside the fog rather than the fog itself being an attacker
Also there are actual ways to do this sort of "fake volumetric fog" effect with particles instead. A lot of faked fluid physics are just colliders with particles attached to them, I could see a "fog enemy" working well like that, so long as you coded some behavior that made the particles have a tendency to regroup whenever they get split up (like when they pass through a tree, for example).
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
In the spirit of teaching a man to fish rather than giving him a fish;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7Nz_AulrrA
step-by-step flappy bird tutorial for unity you could have up and running in about an hour; maybe an extra half hour to convert it into an endless runner rather than a flyer?
Thanks, man!
I just finished one of those situations where things get unexpectedly involved.
1. I thought, I should implement pause while alt-tabbed, might as well do that while I am thinking of it.
2. I discover that SFML may have a bug, fixed in the later (development?) versions, where you don't get focus events in Windows if someone alt-tabs and then clicks back on the window.
3. I grumble a bunch because I didn't want to upgrade, but finally download the source and rebuild SFML release and debug builds.
4. I try to build my engine, see a ton of errors, and think "I've made a terrible mistake."
Fortunately it turned out that the vast majority of errors were caused by a bunch (but not all?) SFML methods and member variables getting renamed to use an initial lowercase letter instead of an uppercase letter. Also, sf::Texture::bind is now a static method. One side benefit of upgrading was that I seem to be able to get rid of the customization/bug fix changes I had made to SFML, with one exception, adding caps lock support. I seem to recall the author(s) of SFML do not believe humans should be able to treat caps lock as an ordinary pressable key, so I fixed that.
In the end I got the errors fixed, and now I'm running with the latest version, so I shall optimistically hope I don't ever have to upgrade again! I also have engine pause on alt-tab working, which is cool.
Oh god. At 4 my heart was sinking into my stomach. That's like my worst nightmare right there. Glad you got it all worked out. Upgrading/rebuilding to a new version frightens me whenever I have to do it.
Well, there goes my theory about him having his legs shot off in the war.For the first time... Mike's got some feet!
I hope you don't plan to put facial features on him; he looks really cool like this.For the first time... Mike's got some feet!
Although, a manly cleft chin would look pretty badass.
Well, there goes my theory about him having his legs shot off in the war.
Dude, he's not in the war yet, because he's got to prove himself worthy of joining Super Something Squad. Jeez....
We, (myself and my GF), do think his head looks a bit tall when on the body. But no, no mouth or nose features are planned.
A note on the lighting here - it's totally out of whack. It should be nice and warm, but that takes an age to make a nice skyshop sky, then re-bake the landscape.... It does have the bounced light effect on his jaw line though. You HAVE to have a fill light on your shaders. Look at the cap, it's dead. But his head, although super basic, has interest to it.
Man, I'm actually over the moon about his feet! The hands and arms need shape work, but I love the legs and feet! Can't wait to get him animated.... not that I've ever animated a character. Which is something I won't be able to say soon!
So after releasing an update and free demo I think I'm done with Instantion. Took a looong break from Unity. Going from working almost every night hardcore for a few months to like less than once a week. It's been weird. Starting to think of a new game to make, got an idea for something quick
and something that would will take a lot of technical, design, art and story planning. Maybe I'll just start both...
What's everyone's gut feeling about Unity 5? Enough features to upgrade? They got a 20% off promotion on till June 30th for Unity 4 upgrades. Right now, I'm thinking I'll wait since the new GUI is coming in 4.6. But saving 20% on each license is tempting...
"quick" idea as of today...
What's everyone's gut feeling about Unity 5? Enough features to upgrade? They got a 20% off promotion on till June 30th for Unity 4 upgrades. Right now, I'm thinking I'll wait since the new GUI is coming in 4.6. But saving 20% on each license is tempting...
smokeandmirrors
Banned
well this definitely piqued my interest. very clue-like/the ship like (to me) which is great.
this is definitely something my friends and i will be interested in!
I've pre-ordered Unity 5. Super Something Squad is PC/Mac, and won't be out before Unity 5, so I'd like to stay up-to-date with the latest Unity. I'm also looking forward to the Physically Based shaders, realtime global illumination, and the new audio system...
Really looking forward to playing with the new lighting actually, looky: http://youtu.be/Wrt5aLHI8ME
Diablohead
Member
I really want to show off some updated Generations footage but i'm stuck with a lot of tricky work involving how I do sprite lighting and having to build my own animation engine to stop skipped frames from the built in fusion animator, soon hopefully.
For the first time... Mike's got some feet!
Looks like he wants to start shit with me bro.
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/270585
Did BIT Trip Runner blatantly rip off this game?
Did BIT Trip Runner blatantly rip off this game?
I second this. Mike looks quite distinctive the way he is right now.
Thanks guys, not sure where I'm getting with it, more experiments will be made.
Some people asked about a wire and breakdown of the 2nd robot, you can check it out here: http://i.imgur.com/hXswUiu.jpg
Some people asked about a wire and breakdown of the 2nd robot, you can check it out here: http://i.imgur.com/hXswUiu.jpg
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