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Indie Game Development Discussion Thread | Of Being Professionally Poor

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SeanNoonan

Member
Working on the new game flow for Jack B. Nimble's Halloween update...

jackbnimble_newflow.gif


(crosspost from iOS thread)
 
I'm no expert, but make sure you contact rockpapershotgun, and set up a page at indiedb. Im a big fan of the TIGforums, i believe they have a kickstarter section.

Thank you, someone else mentioned rockpapershotgun as well. I'll check the other two out as well!

Thank! Yours too. Hope that verification comes through soon.

The usual suspects as far as outlets beyond Facebook and Twitter are pretty much TIGSource, IndieDB, Reddit's r/IndieGaming and/or r/Kickstarter, and, of course, GAF. There are others (and I might be missing something decent, it's late), but generally speaking you're talking about severely diminishing returns on your effort beyond that.

Eh. Durrrrrrr. Launching a Steam Greenlight page with your KS linked at the top at the same time as your campaign can do a ton to send traffic your way while you're still at the top of the Greenlight queue. Might even work better now with the revamped storefront/discovery, and maybe there's something to do with the new groups/curators that seem to be popular, although I haven't looked into that stuff all that closely yet.

Hopefully you've seen this before, but just in case you haven't, here's a pretty darn good resource to make sure you're covering all of your Kickstarter basics: http://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/1k67t0/a_lobsters_guide_for_video_game_projects_on

you saw my twitter post about the verification deal? :eek:

I'll check out all those thank you! Yeah, had planned about the greenlight :D and no, have not seen that lobster guide(haven't really check out reddit) . Thank you all for the invaluable information and hope it will help others as well :)


And here's something one of our artists came up with today:
We'll be using that for the trailer, but any feedback would still be nice. You can see the actual arena at the back of the Golem where you will be fighting for the control of these things.

I like it! I am also thinking of transferring all of my game stuff into UE4 due to the shaders and portability(and I work in C++). Some people told me to go with Unity instead of UE4 because it was better at 2D. Good to hear your not having any performance issues!


As far as progress goes, put in our underground path segment in the game last night. Have to kill those lines that are created in the waterfall.
path1.gif
 

_machine

Member
Couldn't help but laugh my ass off after this happened while filming footage with my friend who was trying to get a closeup shot of the shaman:
uibouncelqsvc.gif

Apparently we still had some colliders on the cameras and the invisible UI and the character bounced against my friends camera...having worked a 13hr day in hungover may have made it bit more funnier than it is though :)
 

tumm

Neo Member
I'm an illustrator trying to make a simple platformer to work on a project for uni--I'm currently using GameMaker and I'm having a lot of trouble with controls, physics, animation/sprite changes.

I've tried youtubing tutorials for platforming mechanics and such, but I've yet to find any really in-depth guides which explore the very beginnings to the finishing touches of coding. That said, I'm not necessarily looking for something which will baby me through the making of a full game, but enough to put together a smooth feeling proof of concept for a game and perhaps teach me the mechanics behind various programming concepts to allow me to play with it.

The main things I'm interested in learning would be placing in animations which activate by pressing various keys (I did managed to make it so while moving it displays a walk animation, but completely failed at implementing a 'sprint' animation change when holding shift and moving)--and also changing animation when interacting with objects or perhaps using a 'skill' with certain key presses--as well as changing things like movement speed or a 'dash' or something.

Making jumping more... dynamic? I've got it currently as press space to jump, and it jumps a certain height, no more and no less, no matter how long you hold the space bar down or whether you give it a quick tap--also, if you don't press space before falling off a ledge it wont jump feeling very mechanical, which I'd like to change a bit (such as adding a grace period or something?).

Interactivity with objects--This one I haven't searched for much, but while I'm posting I thought I'd ask if anyone knew of any good resources for learning this. Such as pressing a key to interact with and object (such as another person or a literal object) where a speech bubble might come up, or the object emits a light and it change the lighting on the sprite (which has something to do with particles?).

I haven't even began touching on UI design (health bars, menus, mouse overlay, etc), but again any available resources would be great.

I'm probably asking a lot, but programming and mathematics really go over my head a lot--but I am willing to spend the time learning, I just need the appropriate resources, tutorials, and demos with notes or something explaining everything properly, of which there are some I've found on my own but they're extremely limited and often just tell you to put in various values/lines of code and don't explain their purpose or why they affect the physics of the world.

If anyone does know decent resources for this (preferably free) I'd be truly grateful, but if not I'll continue playing around and perhaps try to share various pieces of code/programming logic I'm having trouble understanding if it's okay to do that in this thread.
I bolded the most important aspect of what I'm having immediate trouble with--again thanks in advance, if this isn't the appropriate thread then I'm sorry!.
 

Ashodin

Member
Working on my next SageScrolr video, covering some of the enemies. Tonight I'm doing an Indie Corner Live show showcasing Wii U indies (as is GregWiggleton)!

Watch it here at 8 PM EST: (2 and a half hours from now)

Also, not sure if I should make a thread for it, seems worthy to make a thread about a show showcasing Wii U indies.
 

so1337

Member
I'm an illustrator trying to make a simple platformer to work on a project for uni--I'm currently using GameMaker and I'm having a lot of trouble with controls, physics, animation/sprite changes.

I've tried youtubing tutorials for platforming mechanics and such, but I've yet to find any really in-depth guides which explore the very beginnings to the finishing touches of coding. That said, I'm not necessarily looking for something which will baby me through the making of a full game, but enough to put together a smooth feeling proof of concept for a game and perhaps teach me the mechanics behind various programming concepts to allow me to play with it.

The main things I'm interested in learning would be placing in animations which activate by pressing various keys (I did managed to make it so while moving it displays a walk animation, but completely failed at implementing a 'sprint' animation change when holding shift and moving)--and also changing animation when interacting with objects or perhaps using a 'skill' with certain key presses--as well as changing things like movement speed or a 'dash' or something.

(cont.)
I feel like Shaun Spalding's Youtube channel is exactly what you're looking for.
https://www.youtube.com/user/999Greyfox

As for your bolded question, try something like...
Code:
if keyboard_check_direct(vk_shift)
{
sprite_index = sprite_run;
}
else
{
sprite_index = sprite_walk;
}
 
If anyone does know decent resources for this (preferably free) I'd be truly grateful

Unfortunately, most tutorials you will find for anything game related are either going to be incredibly broad ("How to make a generic platformer") or incredibly specific to whatever niche aspect the creator was making.

Animating in games is particularly hard, because programatically computers are dumb and need to have every single use case explicitly outlined to them - they can never read between the lines, so if you want to say something like "Play this animation while they are moving, unless shift is held down in which case play this animation unless they are falling in which case play this animation unless they are hit by something in which case play this animation unless they are standing still in which case play this animation" you pretty much have to literally type that out in code.

The 'easiest' way to do all of that is using some sort of animblending method, where you have 'keyframes' for specific states, and let the code figure out which keyframe should be visible under specfic conditions, and then tween between them as necessary, but AFAIK that's not something directly supported within Game Maker.

For platform games, there are a number of tutorials, but a very large part of making a good platform game is 'feel' of the physics, which is not something that can be taught; its a lot of exposed variables being tweaked to get the results you want.

The following are three pretty decent tutorials on making a platform game in GameMaker that you might find helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IysShLIaosk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIsQux0FD44

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFX7IHhZw7g
 

Jobbs

Banned
Have you tested out what happens you run away? Players are going to not stick around and wait for it to finish. I had to test a lot of stuff in the game that way. I test for asshole players.

you can't leave the arena without multi jump. I think of everything. :)
 

Jobbs

Banned
Future kids "Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww mannnnnnnnnnnn"

in any case, I have to design things in such a way that player is not allowed to do anything that breaks it -- I keep this in mind at all times, trust me. you'll see in many examples I spawn temporary walls at the entrance of an area just to make sure the player can't leave until something plays out.
 

Ashodin

Member
in any case, I have to design things in such a way that player is not allowed to do anything that breaks it -- I keep this in mind at all times, trust me. you'll see in many examples I spawn temporary walls at the entrance of an area just to make sure the player can't leave until something plays out.

Indeed. I absolutely hate it when players skip content because "lol bored"
 
Been lurking around this thread for a while and I'd like to say how awesome a lot of these projects are, you guys should be proud. :)

I've had a lengthy discussion with a friend recently about development in Unity, specifically the Asset Store and I'd like to get some input from folks who have some experience as well as just your thoughts on the following matter.

Just how useful is the Asset Store, specifically in terms of actual models, environment and texture packs? Do you know of specific examples of well known, or at least somewhat familiar titles (preferably on Steam, I'm sure the situation is somewhat different on iOS/Android) that have extensively used complete environments from the Asset Store with only little to moderate modifications to the original assets? I'm wondering how frequently used are these assets in finished products. We were of course mainly talking about smaller, indie titles, Early Access stuff, smaller teams, things like Rust or 7 Days to Die (although I'm aware of the controversy of the latter title, which is also an interesting detail).

The thing is, my friend's line of thinking is that he wants to purchase Unity, find half a dozen modern city/post apocalyptic assets from various Asset Store sellers and fling them into the game, generate a terrain, create cities and open woodland areas from these several asset packs and pretty much call it a day. I'm exaggerating slightly but he's thinking there isn't much work to be done after that regarding texturing, modeling, creating environments etc.

My line of thinking is that devs somewhat frequently use assets such as shaders, lighting systems, AI and pathfinding systems, level building systems like Probuilder, maybe even some particles and other assets that benefit the development process by making the game designers' and programmers' lives easier. Not so much on the modeling/3D assets side or pretty much anything that gives the unique look of the game. I believe generic stuff like lampposts, boxes, barrels, torched vehicles, trees and foliage, rocks etc. are probably used much more frequently without a lot of modification (though I doubt even that) in the end product than, say, whole buildings, characters and clothing items etc, at least not with more extensive modification to geometry or textures. Rust's naked player model isn't an asset from the store, right? Nor are any of the items/weapons, or even trees, rocks etc? I'm not talking about placeholders of course. I can understand stuff like the 7DTD issue, it was supposedly a placeholder zombie, but does the game actually use any Asset Store models as unmodified, finished models for the game? If anything, it's at least a question of having a consistent look for your project (but some people might not care about that). Even if you find an asset pack that fits your needs, you might need to add a few models later on in development and just finding another new asset from another creator that looks somewhat similar (as in both are photorealistic buildings, but from different people and of varying quality, modeling process, polygon count etc.) wouldn't really cut it. Personally, I wouldn't even think about this and would create the graphics assets from the ground up as it gives me complete control over the artistic and technical attributes of said assets. Not to mention that Unity based games might start looking the same due to overuse of (even great looking) assets from the store.

Am I wrong on this? How much do smaller devs really use these assets? Do they perhaps frequently use meshes with new, custom textures instead of the old ones? Or do people mainly create their own graphics assets? And I suppose this question doesn't have to be limited to Unity, but it's a nice example of a complete development/store environment.
 
Am I wrong on this? How much do smaller devs really use these assets? Do they perhaps frequently use meshes with new, custom textures instead of the old ones? Or do people mainly create their own graphics assets? And I suppose this question doesn't have to be limited to Unity, but it's a nice example of a complete development/store environment.

Bear in mind that for a majority of players, what they see on screen is almost entirely the entire 'value' of a game, and if you made a retail title entirely made of unity asset store assets, you would get absolutely crucified for doing so.

If you just want to outright buy assets, you'd be best off just finding an outsourcing company. Having said that, less visible assets are bought all the time, in every field of development right up to AAA.
 

GulAtiCa

Member
Working on my next SageScrolr video, covering some of the enemies. Tonight I'm doing an Indie Corner Live show showcasing Wii U indies (as is GregWiggleton)!

Watch it here at 8 PM EST: (2 and a half hours from now)

Also, not sure if I should make a thread for it, seems worthy to make a thread about a show showcasing Wii U indies.

Yep! I'm looking forward to tonight's hangout show thingy
 

Burt

Member
you saw my twitter post about the verification deal? :eek:

I'll check out all those thank you! Yeah, had planned about the greenlight :D and no, have not seen that lobster guide(haven't really check out reddit) . Thank you all for the invaluable information and hope it will help others as well :)

As far as progress goes, put in our underground path segment in the game last night. Have to kill those lines that are created in the waterfall.
path1.gif

Yeah, it popped up, I'm @RuinousA. Underground segment looks great!


As does this

Does anyone have any suggestions for tileset decoration? I'm kind of stumped and feel like I need something else to throw in the yard here. Haycart already has a presence in town and I'm not trying to get too redundant with stuff.


Also, is there a set rule as to whether or not the trees and bushes should use the same color palette? I'm leaning towards keeping them separate so that you can distinguish the breaks without having to use too dark of an outline, but I dunno if that's gonna get me yelled at or not.

Anyway, this is all WIP, but I should have the whole town polished off, snapped together, and ready for some giffin' by this weekend. Hopefully the wheat/grain/whatever that is that I drew won't be too hard to animate a bit.
 
Does anyone have any suggestions for tileset decoration? I'm kind of stumped and feel like I need something else to throw in the yard here. Haycart already has a presence in town and I'm not trying to get too redundant with stuff.

Hmm, a well maybe? Lanterns hooked to metal poles, or stone lanterns (even better if you have day/night cycle, but still could work out as decor even during the day)? A small vegetable garden?
 

Five

Banned
Does anyone have any suggestions for tileset decoration? I'm kind of stumped and feel like I need something else to throw in the yard here. Haycart already has a presence in town and I'm not trying to get too redundant with stuff.

Also, is there a set rule as to whether or not the trees and bushes should use the same color palette? I'm leaning towards keeping them separate so that you can distinguish the breaks without having to use too dark of an outline, but I dunno if that's gonna get me yelled at or not.

- small patches of dirt
- dirt mound (perhaps the dog buried its bone there)
- children's toys or left out tools
- wild flowers or weeds
- pumpkin patch
- benches or tabling
- signs

I noticed the variation in overall hue, but what stood out to me more was that the bushes are more texturally similar to the grass than the to the trees. I'm sure it's effected by the fencing covering much of the shadowing, but I think it would help to see more contrast between the tops of the bushes and the adjacent grass. It's not a problem when there's the wagon or the house behind, but putting bush in front of grass is a little too low-contrast for my tastes.
 

Jobbs

Banned
remember the time I said something like -- I have trouble designing enemies because I don't want to draw from enemies that seem "too" video gamey and diminish the tone of the game (which I believe resulted in wall slugs)?

I'm facing that sort of decision again. I was looking at this room:

http://www.gfycat.com/PoshSlowAlligatorsnappingturtle

and I was thinking how if I was actually playing the game, this room would be far more engaging if it had some kind of creature hopping around between those two platforms. but that repetitive mindless motion I feel is somehow "unserious" or something -- at least, that's my instinct. So I'm, as usual, feeling a bit pulled into two different directions.

I'm starting to soften a bit, and just think -- you know, maybe screw it, just put something hopping back and forth there.. people are perfectly capable of compartmentalizing a serious story and gameplay that can at times be unrealistic or even silly. right?
 

Ashodin

Member
remember the time I said something like -- I have trouble designing enemies because I don't want to draw from enemies that seem "too" video gamey and diminish the tone of the game (which I believe resulted in wall slugs)?

I'm facing that sort of decision again. I was looking at this room:

http://www.gfycat.com/PoshSlowAlligatorsnappingturtle

and I was thinking how if I was actually playing the game, this room would be far more engaging if it had some kind of creature hopping around between those two platforms. but that repetitive mindless motion I feel is somehow "unserious" or something -- at least, that's my instinct. So I'm, as usual, feeling a bit pulled into two different directions.

I'm starting to soften a bit, and just think -- you know, maybe screw it, just put something hopping back and forth there.. people are perfectly capable of compartmentalizing a serious story and gameplay that can at times be unrealistic or even silly. right?

Do it, but however the camera will lead the player to hit it without warning (as it is off screen).
 

Five

Banned
I'm starting to soften a bit, and just think -- you know, maybe screw it, just put something hopping back and forth there.. people are perfectly capable of compartmentalizing a serious story and gameplay that can at times be unrealistic or even silly. right?

Agreed with Ashodin on both accounts. Put the hopping monster there, but fix the camera (or platform height) so you can see some terra firma below.
 

Jobbs

Banned
you can control the camera with the right analog stick, and once used to playing the game it becomes second nature to check out what's ahead (or below).

that said, yeah, I may tweak the room a bit if I'm actually going to have an enemy hopping there.
 

Ashodin

Member
you can control the camera with the right analog stick, and once used to playing the game it becomes second nature to check out what's ahead (or below).

that said, yeah, I may tweak the room a bit if I'm actually going to have an enemy hopping there.

I admit seeing the enemy hop out of screen might be a good clue-in in what's down there.
 

Five

Banned
The camera pan is probably enough. I'd forgotten (or didn't know) it was a feature.

I admit seeing the enemy hop out of screen might be a good clue-in in what's down there.

It'll tell you where the monster is, but not where safe to land is unless the game design so far had been "it's safe to land on anything that's not a monster".
 

Burt

Member

Been good listening.

Hmm, a well maybe? Lanterns hooked to metal poles, or stone lanterns (even better if you have day/night cycle, but still could work out as decor even during the day)? A small vegetable garden?

Lantern made! No day/night cycle (yet), but it definitely works. Thanks!

- small patches of dirt
- dirt mound (perhaps the dog buried its bone there)
- children's toys or left out tools
- wild flowers or weeds
- pumpkin patch
- benches or tabling
- signs

I noticed the variation in overall hue, but what stood out to me more was that the bushes are more texturally similar to the grass than the to the trees. I'm sure it's effected by the fencing covering much of the shadowing, but I think it would help to see more contrast between the tops of the bushes and the adjacent grass. It's not a problem when there's the wagon or the house behind, but putting bush in front of grass is a little too low-contrast for my tastes.

These all sound like good ideas. Pumpkin patch could definitely be a visually interesting addition. And you've discovered my rock and hard place in that screenshot -- go too far yellow, and it blends into the trees, too blue and it melts into the grass. Messing with it, we'll see how it turns out.
 

Phil S.

Banned
Hi everybody. I'm Phil! I'm a college student who is working on getting a degree in Interactive Digital Media. My focus for a career is game design. I'm using Game Maker 8.1 to make Super Push Adventure, my first serious game. It's almost finished, I am really excited about it.

I know it's not much compared to the much more impressive stuff the mass majority of folks in this topic are making, but I'm proud of it.

Super Push Adventure is game about moving boulders around to create paths to each level's exit. There's different obstacles and level gimmicks that pop up to keep things fresh. In total, I have over 80 levels in the game, a large array of original graphics/sprites, and I composed all of the tracks of the game myself.

I'd love to get some feedback on what you guys think of these screens, and if you think the game concept is interesting enough.

 

Five

Banned
Looks great as always. I'd like the "stream" to be a little less dotted and a little more cohesive. I assume this is a particle effect with some kind of attractor attached to the player? Is this a build-in feature of Stencyl?

One last thing I have to ask as I'm wondering for quite some time now: What's up with those filenames?

The filenames are the best thing about the gifs, which is saying something considering how great the gifs are!
 
How much do smaller devs really use these assets? Do they perhaps frequently use meshes with new, custom textures instead of the old ones? Or do people mainly create their own graphics assets? And I suppose this question doesn't have to be limited to Unity, but it's a nice example of a complete development/store environment.

Pretty much everything but models seems like fair game, really. Textures can be reused if used with custom assets so things don't look too "same-y".

Code is much easier to reuse without it looking like you bought it off the shelf. The only thing to be wary of is what I call the "Unreal" effect. If you take something off the shelf (say, Unreal Engine) and don't change things enough, you get a "same-y" feel, much like a lot of Unreal Engine 3 shooters this past gen that used a lot of stock engine stuff and generally came out looking similar.

Personally, I use editor extensions and code assets. Probuilder is one of them. I may use models and stuff for prototyping, but I would never ship a game (that I would expect someone to buy) with immediately visible stock stuff that anyone else can use in any other type of game.

My 2 cents: if the player has a fairly high chance of recognizing it, I wouldn't use it in a commercial product, personally.
 

Jobbs

Banned
Looks great as always. I'd like the "stream" to be a little less dotted and a little more cohesive. I assume this is a particle effect with some kind of attractor attached to the player? Is this a build-in feature of Stencyl?

mm... sorta? the physics environment that allows applying various forces is a built in feature, but that's about as deep as it goes for this. the particles are actors that are told different targets/forces that it switches through by delays. Looks like I also appled a speed limiter to counter act the forces (multiply self speed by a number below zero if speed is above whatever).

IXcD1Q3.png


also (not seen here) I stretch the actors early in their life ot produce that enlongated effect.

I could probably make the stream more dense. in fact, I'll try that now.
 

tumm

Neo Member
I feel like Shaun Spalding's Youtube channel is exactly what you're looking for.
https://www.youtube.com/user/999Greyfox

As for your bolded question, try something like...
Code:
if keyboard_check_direct(vk_shift)
{
sprite_index = sprite_run;
}
else
{
sprite_index = sprite_walk;
}
I managed to get as far as I did thanks to a couple of his videos, and he tends to be really good at explaining certain concepts in the coding. I will definitely check out the rest of his videos.

That's almost the exact code I have for changing the sprite while moving, and I thought to myself "if I just replace a couple of things for the sprint and copy/paste then surely it'll work?" and no amount of tweaking managed to work v_v Probably a really stupid question, but is there a way to tell it something similar but with 2 or more 'else' statements? like "if key_shift then sprite_run, else if key a or d then sprite_walk, else if hsp=0 then sprite_stand" and so forth with various states/keys being pressed? and if there are two states that are needed for an animation to play "if shift and a or d are press then ____" how would I word that? or is there a specific order to the if & else statements I have to place?

Animating in games is particularly hard, because programatically computers are dumb and need to have every single use case explicitly outlined to them - they can never read between the lines, so if you want to say something like "Play this animation while they are moving, unless shift is held down in which case play this animation unless they are falling in which case play this animation unless they are hit by something in which case play this animation unless they are standing still in which case play this animation" you pretty much have to literally type that out in code.

Yeah that's what trips me up the most, being able to specify the different states or actions--I guess it's something I'll need experiment with to the best of my knowledge and carry on until I become more familiar with the language. Thanks for the video links! Will definitely check them out ASAP.
 

Galdelico

Member
As far as progress goes, put in our underground path segment in the game last night. Have to kill those lines that are created in the waterfall.
path1.gif

This gives me the chance to ask you guys - as in you, Jobbs, Noogy... Basically, who made/are making 2D sidescrolling games with hand-drawn graphics - one question: what is your approach when you conceive and actually design your backgrounds? How do you deal with patterns and repetition?

Looking at Dust and Ghost Song, you can spot some recycled element, but it's usually very minor and always so subtle that it's impossible to pinpoint any proper 'tile'.

I'm in the process of cleaning up Stage 1-1 map, which is basically this massive 2000x36000 px PSD file, with no real tiling in it, so I'm wondering how to proceed and possibly simplify it.
Thanks in advance guys.
 

Jobbs

Banned
This gives me the chance to ask you guys - as in you, Jobbs, Noogy... Basically, who made/are making 2D sidescrolling games with hand-drawn graphics - one question: what is your approach when you conceive and actually design your backgrounds? How do you deal with patterns and repetition?

Looking at Dust and Ghost Song, you can spot some recycled element, but it's usually very minor and always so subtle that it's impossible to pinpoint any proper 'tile'.

I'm in the process of cleaning up Stage 1-1 map, which is basically this massive 2000x36000 px PSD file, with no real tiling in it, so I'm wondering how to proceed and possibly simplify it.
Thanks in advance guys.

well, speaking for myself, I don't use "tiles" very often in the traditional sense. I realized a while ago that I find the process of making that sort of thing to be stifling. What I use is a more organic approach. I make all sorts of individual objects-- rocks, chunks of rocks, trees, plants, stamps containing various shapes and patterns -- and I just treat the level environment like a canvas and the various graphics and stamps I've made as the brush. I can resize and rotate individual graphics in the scene editor, too, which is frequently done to help fit things together.

there aren't any "hard rules" when you do it this way as to what works and what doesn't, and while I haven't perfected it, I've learned a lot.

While you do see repeated assets, which is pretty much unavoidable in this type of game, the nature of how things are made (many parts mixed together) makes it less obvious. If you look at the gif I posted last night -- this one http://www.gfycat.com/AgedRedChimpanzee -- see the weird tree thing poking out of the ground toward the left side of the screen? then after the player walks right, you see another similar thing poking out over to the right. These are the same graphic, but since it's been resized and reoriented, it doesn't stand out as being a repeat, but it is.
 

Galdelico

Member
well, speaking for myself, I don't use "tiles" very often in the traditional sense. I realized a while ago that I find the process of making that sort of thing to be stifling. What I use is a more organic approach. I make all sorts of individual objects-- rocks, chunks of rocks, trees, plants, stamps containing various shapes and patterns -- and I just treat the level environment like a canvas and the various graphics and stamps I've made as the brush. I can resize and rotate individual graphics in the scene editor, too, which is frequently done to help fit things together.

there aren't any "hard rules" when you do it this way as to what works and what doesn't, and while I haven't perfected it, I've learned a lot.

While you do see repeated assets, which is pretty much unavoidable in this type of game, the nature of how things are made (many parts mixed together) makes it less obvious. If you look at the gif I posted last night -- this one http://www.gfycat.com/AgedRedChimpanzee -- see the weird tree thing poking out of the ground toward the left side of the screen? then after the player walks right, you see another similar thing poking out over to the right. These are the same graphic, but since it's been resized and reoriented, it doesn't stand out as being a repeat, but it is.
This is brilliant Matt, thank you.

Speaking of your gif, I'm looking at the various layers of rocks behind the main character and the ground:

ihHdyoFBX7gbl.png


It looks like one chunky graphical element, and the only repetition I could spot (it's not even obvious) is a simple texture pattern. If you don't mind me asking, how does that layer look in Stencyl? Is it one, single actor or many smaller actors put together?
 

ZServ

Member
remember the time I said something like -- I have trouble designing enemies because I don't want to draw from enemies that seem "too" video gamey and diminish the tone of the game (which I believe resulted in wall slugs)?

I'm facing that sort of decision again. I was looking at this room:

http://www.gfycat.com/PoshSlowAlligatorsnappingturtle

and I was thinking how if I was actually playing the game, this room would be far more engaging if it had some kind of creature hopping around between those two platforms. but that repetitive mindless motion I feel is somehow "unserious" or something -- at least, that's my instinct. So I'm, as usual, feeling a bit pulled into two different directions.

I'm starting to soften a bit, and just think -- you know, maybe screw it, just put something hopping back and forth there.. people are perfectly capable of compartmentalizing a serious story and gameplay that can at times be unrealistic or even silly. right?

Why not something coming out of the pit that slowly reaches for the player? Speed it up as necessary until it provides the proper amount of tension. Have it's max range be just outside of those pillars. You can use it as a chance to introduce the player to that enemy, and later on potentially have Metroid style platforming sequences where the player is almost literally being hunted by these mysterious, daunting creatures. Have them be subtle in the environment, maybe just a "glow" of some sort that turns out to be attached to the main grabbygrabby thing, that once it has a LOS on the player starts to creep up towards them.

You can totally do "serious and atmospheric" while still making that spot more engaging.
 

Jobbs

Banned
It looks like one chunky graphical element, and the only repetition I could spot (it's not even obvious) is a simple texture pattern. If you don't mind me asking, how does that layer look in Stencyl? Is it one, single actor or many smaller actors put together?

I think in this case you're overthinking it -- sometimes I make larger graphics all in one, roughly the length of the screen, and use them for stuff like this. since they're as big as the screen, you tend to not spot patterns. I use them in conjunction with other pieces, too, like all those big green tree bark looking things which are separate.

I've found that I often make something for one specific composition, created art to fit that specific circumstnace, then later find other uses for it in other places. anything goes. I believe that's how that particular piece started.

Why not something coming out of the pit that slowly reaches for the player? Speed it up as necessary until it provides the proper amount of tension. Have it's max range be just outside of those pillars. You can use it as a chance to introduce the player to that enemy, and later on potentially have Metroid style platforming sequences where the player is almost literally being hunted by these mysterious, daunting creatures. Have them be subtle in the environment, maybe just a "glow" of some sort that turns out to be attached to the main grabbygrabby thing, that once it has a LOS on the player starts to creep up towards them.

You can totally do "serious and atmospheric" while still making that spot more engaging.

like the dudes who reach out of pits in super metroid and try to grab you?
 

ZServ

Member
I think in this case you're overthinking it -- sometimes I make larger graphics all in one, roughly the length of the screen, and use them for stuff like this. since they're as big as the screen, you tend to not spot patterns. I use them in conjunction with other pieces, too, like all those big green tree bark looking things which are separate.



like the dudes who reach out of pits in super metroid and try to grab you?

Confession time. I've never made it past the intro of SMetroid. I know it's a brilliantly made game, I'm just so awful at it.

So, maybe? I'm thinking something along the lines of the hand that pops out of the toilet in Majora's Mask, but much more slow and menacing, the glow being reminiscent of that first experience with Gohma in OOT. Or like the hands in Rayman Origins, but re-appropriated for the content obviously.

Edit: How do you like Stencyl, Jobbs? Do you find it adequate for what you're trying to do? I'm highly considering giving it a shot.
 

Galdelico

Member
I think in this case you're overthinking it -- sometimes I make larger graphics all in one, roughly the length of the screen, and use them for stuff like this. since they're as big as the screen, you tend to not spot patterns. I use them in conjunction with other pieces, too, like all those big green tree bark looking things which are separate.

I've found that I often make something for one specific composition, created art to fit that specific circumstnace, then later find other uses for it in other places. anything goes. I believe that's how that particular piece started.

I get it, thank you once again.
And you're right, I'm a bit all over the place with this matter. I should probably stop thinking about it and just do it. Stage 1-1 is pretty much a linear, tutorial-like run, so trial and error wouldn't be that big of a deal.
 

Jobbs

Banned
I get it, thank you once again.
And you're right, I'm a bit all over the place with this matter. I should probably stop thinking about it and just do it. Stage 1-1 is pretty much a linear, tutorial-like run, so trial and error wouldn't be that big of a deal.

how I tend to create a new environment is to draw an entire section all as one composition in photoshop, sort of like a mockup.

then I'll start using it to extract and touch up individual chunks or other elements to be used on its own as a "stamp" in the game. I can "test" it a bit in real time by placing the chunks together in photoshop to simulate what it would be like to do it in the editor.

I'll put the initial wave into the game and see how things look, and think about what else I need and then go create additional assets as needed. it's very iterative, but it tends to all begin with a mockup (if it's a brand new environment).
 
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