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Indie Game Development Discussion Thread | Of Being Professionally Poor

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BlueMagic

Member
Blizzard, what kind of polygons do the robots have? Are they just plain boxes, or do they have unneeded detail anywhere?

If they have more detail than they show then toning it down, or even having just a lower poly version for robots far from the camera, might help. Don't know what hardware your using, or how much power shadows need in UDK though.


Didn't know Saturday was for showing screens, but here's something I've been working on.

PVZBAvr.png


Lack of shadows in Unity hurts the negligible detail I put into the trees, but but vegetation system creating the grass is mostly complete, as is the minimap system in the top right corner.

How is that grass rendered? In Unity, I mean. I know little about graphics programming but does Unity support something like vegetation rendering out of the box or did you do somehting of your own?
 

Darryl

Banned
How is that grass rendered? In Unity, I mean. I know little about graphics programming but does Unity support something like vegetation rendering out of the box or did you do somehting of your own?

unity has really simple vegetation. you design a 2D texture and just paint it on with a brush. really easy. you can do some fantastic, next-gen level grass out of the box. extremely resource intensive to go overboard though.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Didn't know it downright sucked for shadows. What kind of options does it have? Can you lower the draw distance for them, or the resolution they use? Maybe try making the robots shadeless even.

Hope you can get it running well with a huge robot army.
I think there may be options to lower draw distance, change the quality, and so forth. You can set up a physics asset to have a different shape cast a shadow or something like that, and someone suggested a decal as well. I've been asking about it in the UDK thread and elsewhere, so I might find some stuff out soon. :)
 

missile

Member
We really need to see a game in this kind of super low simple style, the only thing like it I can think of is notch's upcoming game with the space man thing.

Yeah I'll spend hours scrolling through here. I dunno something just more enjoyable and "gamey" about simple stuff.

Well, I'm also very interested in low poly art for games.

And I'm looking for an artist who has a favor doing so for a variant of a game
I'm making. However, I need someone who can construct quite unique looking
stuff (speedcrafts, some abstract arrangements, etc) out of very, very few
polygon, much less what the deviant guy does, about 5-10 polygons (not
necessarily connected with each other) and perhaps a few lines. Does anyone
here know a page where such guys meet? I consider it as an art - arranging a
few polygons in space given them a unique look as a whole. Not many can do
this. I've come to known that people can do great stuff given many resources,
but what remains from all of this if you have to work under very restricted
and limited resources? For me, this exposes the soul of an artist.
 

Zenaku

Member
How is that grass rendered? In Unity, I mean. I know little about graphics programming but does Unity support something like vegetation rendering out of the box or did you do somehting of your own?

I scripted it myself. The grass is basically just this:

qyw8br0.png


Pretty simple grass model made in blender, with 123 polygons. The script I made is attached to each tile and creates copies of that grass at run-time. I can edit how much by just changing the value, and the script calculates distance from the player to render/destroy the grass as needed.

It doesn't need to be grass specifically, but I can have it randomize between as many different models as I like, whether it's tiles of grass, flowers, rocks, leaves, etc. I've only got the grass model and one with a basic flower at the moment though.


unity has really simple vegetation. you design a 2D texture and just paint it on with a brush. really easy. you can do some fantastic, next-gen level grass out of the box. extremely resource intensive to go overboard though.

As far as I know, those features can only be used with Unity-created terrain. If you're using your own modeled maps the texture brushes/vegetation brushes don't seem to work.

I think there may be options to lower draw distance, change the quality, and so forth. You can set up a physics asset to have a different shape cast a shadow or something like that, and someone suggested a decal as well. I've been asking about it in the UDK thread and elsewhere, so I might find some stuff out soon. :)

Seems to be a few options then. How many robots can you get on screen with shadows turned off?
 

asa

Member
And done! Lets see how this spreads... Controls are bit all over the place, but I was thinking about that surgeon simulator game while I did the controls :p

ANyways, you can rotate the scene with arrow keys and drag/interact with stuff with mouse..

NES MUSIC BOX!

Who can tell the right games first? :)
 

Zenaku

Member
And done! Lets see how this spreads... Controls are bit all over the place, but I was thinking about that surgeon simulator game while I did the controls :p

ANyways, you can rotate the scene with arrow keys and drag/interact with stuff with mouse..

NES MUSIC BOX!

Who can tell the right games first? :)

The page won't open for me. It also seems to crash my open tab, even if I open the link in a new one. I had to go to another tab and get back to the thread manually. >_>

EDIT: Works in IE, crashes my Chrome.
 

asa

Member
Weird, it works fine in my Chrome and IE. It's just a simple scene, I can't think anything that could cause crashing of the bat. Maybe it's something to do with your browser setup?
 

Zenaku

Member
Well, while it worked in IE, it seems it was trying to update the webplayer, which failed to happen. Might just need to update the webplayer manually later on.
 

Dali

Member
And done! Lets see how this spreads... Controls are bit all over the place, but I was thinking about that surgeon simulator game while I did the controls :p

ANyways, you can rotate the scene with arrow keys and drag/interact with stuff with mouse..

NES MUSIC BOX!

Who can tell the right games first? :)

All over the place is an understatement. Neat idea, but neigh impossible to do anything other than play the cart that's already inside. How do you even eject? I clicked on the cart where you would on a real NES. Clicked everywhere else. Double clicked. Nothing worked.

edit:
Nvm. I figured it out. Still having trouble putting a different one in.
 

phantomsnake

Neo Member
And done! Lets see how this spreads... Controls are bit all over the place, but I was thinking about that surgeon simulator game while I did the controls :p

ANyways, you can rotate the scene with arrow keys and drag/interact with stuff with mouse..

NES MUSIC BOX!

Who can tell the right games first? :)

This is great! The only thing missing is an old CRT TV hooked up to the NES. The TV could show a super pixelated and/or flickering image from the game. :)

The red cartridge is Mega Man 2, the gold one is clearly the Legend of Zelda, and the one with the pink puff on it is Kirby's Adventure. I don't recognize the other two.
 

asa

Member
This is great! The only thing missing is an old CRT TV hooked up to the NES. The TV could show a super pixelated and/or flickering image from the game. :)

The red cartridge is Mega Man 2, the gold one is clearly the Legend of Zelda, and the one with the pink puff on it is Kirby's Adventure. I don't recognize the other two.

Thanks,

Hint for the games: One is a Capcom game that got few remakes couple years ago. And the other one is megaman style game with awesome music :)

I might update the scene next week if I have time, definitely would add tv screen and obscure frames of the games and probably refine the controls a bit ;)
 

missile

Member
Yet my game is way off from being anywhere near completion, but I'm so eager
for playing it on my own, it's incredible! It really drives me doing whatever
necessary. And it stands up before anything else.

Gamedev 4 life!
 

GrizzNKev

Banned
I may just be fishing for congratulations but I'm a freshman at DigiPen and my game was one of ten freshman games selected for the 2013 student showcase!

I'm so hyped about it. Trailer coming next week.
 

Zenaku

Member
I wish the dirt was the same color as the grass so all you could see was the detail/shadows of the grass. Basically I don't like that I can see the dirt.

I kind of liked the detail myself, but I realised I was setting the grass as high as possible to hide the dirt, so I just switched it to green. I've reduced the number of grass blades and increased their size, along with the FOV, and upgraded to Unity 4 to test the shadows in the trial:


Still checking different settings, but I can't seem to stop edges where the grass and cliffs meet from lighting...
 

IndianElephant

Neo Member
I've been trying to learn about C# delegates and events but man,m i seriously cant get my head around it. :-(

Man, I feel your pain. It took me forever for delegates to click, and I never found any of the online examples to be helpful. So I will try to help you.

OK, so I was recently working on a project that involved pathfinding. In an earlier project, I just gave every tile a "traversability" property, so when the pathfinding algorithm got to a tile, it would just look at that property and add it to the list of possible path nodes or not. For this project, I wanted to be able to find a path with arbitrary traversability rules. For example, if I specifically wanted a path that sticks to the edge of a landmass, I would want only land tiles that are touching water to be considered traversable in the algorithm.

Delegates were the answer!

With delegates I can pass, as a parameter, an arbitrary method into my pathfinding method. This arbitrary method would need to itself take a parameter: a tile that could be judged traversable or not. It would then need to return a bool indicating traversability of that tile.

But when defining my pathfinder method with parameters, I need to tell it what type those parameters are. So I needed that tile-in-bool-out out method to have a type before I could pass it into my pathfinder as a parameter. The type can't just be "delegate" because then there would be no telling what kinds of methods got passed in and C# would cry. So what I had to do is use the delegate keyword to define a type for my traversability-determining method.

so in PathFinder.cs, before I define the class PathFinder, I put the following:

Code:
public delegate bool PathFinderDelegate(Tile t);

What this does is define a type called PathFinderDelegate that can be passed into a method as a parameter. This type is defined to be methods that take a Tile as a parameter and return a bool.

My previous FindPath method looked like this:

Code:
public List<Tile> FindPath(Tile startTile, Tile endTile)
{
     //blah
 
     //...

     //blah

     //...

     if (someTile.IsTraversable()) //I want to know if someTile is traversable
     {
          DoStuff();
     }

     //...
}

But now I can define my FindPath method thusly:

Code:
public List<Tile> FindPath(Tile startTile, Tile endTile, PathFinderDelegate traversableCondition)
{
     //blah
 
     //...

     //blah

     //...

     if (traversableCondition(someTile)) //I want to know if someTile meets the arbitrary traversability condition
     {
          DoStuff();
     }

     //...
}

So now my pathfinder is totally set up to take arbitrary traversability rules. Now I just have to call FindPath and give it a traversability rule. There is more than one way to do this, but the way I generally did it in my project was thus (in this example, I want a path that hugs the edge of a land mass):

Code:
List<Tile> coastalPath = PathFinder.FindPath(
     startTile, 
     endTile, 
     delegate (Tile t) { return t.IsLand() && t.IsTouchingWater(); }
     );

The delegate keyword used there is a bit confusing because it looks like the keyword I used to define that type earlier. In this case the delegate keyword is used to indicate an anonymous method, which is just a nameless method that you define in-line like I did here. But the important thing is that this anonymous method takes a Tile parameter, and returns a bool.

I hope this was at all helpful - If not, well, I understand, I've been there. Let me know if you need a clarification on anything! I'm just now starting to use events, but once you're comfy with delegates, events are easy.
 

Blizzard

Banned
So you're saying delegates are basically function pointers back from the days of C? *strokes neckbeard and makes trollface*
 

Anustart

Member
I think you forgot to link the video. :)

I'm actually using Orthello for my game. I like to set up my sprites like this:

- SpriteContainer (empty object)
-- OrthelloSprite (without a collider)
-- ColliderObject (with offset as necessary)

By having the sprite and collider as independent objects you can offset and scale them however you like. Does this help at all?

Edit: Also, if you're using a rigidbody, it would go on the SpriteContainer (any movement of the sprite is done on SpriteContainer).

I don't get it :/ I have it set up like you, Far outter container that has a box collider, then a sprite parent and finally the sprite. In the editor the box collidor is the size I want and visually it shows correct, when I hit play, sure enough he lands like 10 pixels above a block.

This is getting infuriating.

Edit: Adding in a photo for some reference. Graphic is just for reference since I'm still building my real sprites.


If I change the size on the box collider, everything gets out of whack, even if I take the children off, change collider size, then re-child the others.

2nd Edit: Seemed to have fixed it, though I'm unsure if it is the "Right" way. I re-size the box collider then change the center of it via the inspector rather than just moving it via it's handle in the scene view window.
 

phantomsnake

Neo Member
I don't get it :/ I have it set up like you, Far outter container that has a box collider, then a sprite parent and finally the sprite. In the editor the box collidor is the size I want and visually it shows correct, when I hit play, sure enough he lands like 10 pixels above a block.

This is getting infuriating.

Edit: Adding in a photo for some reference. Graphic is just for reference since I'm still building my real sprites.



If I change the size on the box collider, everything gets out of whack, even if I take the children off, change collider size, then re-child the others.

2nd Edit: Seemed to have fixed it, though I'm unsure if it is the "Right" way. I re-size the box collider then change the center of it via the inspector rather than just moving it via it's handle in the scene view window.

Hmm... I'm not sure how that fixed it. Based on the screenshot, though, I see some potential issues.

You need to uncheck "Is Trigger" on the collider. Triggers don't have physics collisions.

I think you also need to uncheck "Is Kinematic" on the rigidbody but I'm not super familiar with how to use kinematic objects.

Also on the rigidbody, if this is a 2D game you probably want to check Freeze Position Z, and possibly Freeze Rotation for X, Y, and Z, otherwise your object might move in unexpected ways (especially along the Z axis).

There's some good info about all this here:
http://docs.unity3d.com/Documentation/Components/class-BoxCollider.html

Here's what this looks like in my game (slightly different from what I originally suggested, but actually closer to what you're doing):

 

Rimshot

Member
Maybe a very strange question by me, but what tile size is mostly used with 2d platforming games? I know you should have this discussion with your artist, as this impacts the art, but since I'm alone on this project I want to do I'm not sure what to opt for...
 
Maybe a very strange question by me, but what tile size is mostly used with 2d platforming games? I know you should have this discussion with your artist, as this impacts the art, but since I'm alone on this project I want to do I'm not sure what to opt for...

It will come down to how your game plays and what sort of engine you want to go with, I use 64x64 because it's a good size for my sprites and allows me to not have to use tiny little slopes here and there, my smallest slant is 64x32.

I should note that my game's resolution is 568 x 320.

Games like sonic the hedgehog 1 on the megadrive used huge tile sizes, the later games shrunk the tile size so more detail could be squeezed into the level design, it's up to you really.
 

Rimshot

Member
It will come down to how your game plays and what sort of engine you want to go with, I use 64x64 because it's a good size for my sprites and allows me to not have to use tiny little slopes here and there, my smallest slant is 64x32.

I should note that my game's resolution is 568 x 320.

Games like sonic the hedgehog 1 on the megadrive used huge tile sizes, the later games shrunk the tile size so more detail could be squeezed into the level design, it's up to you really.

Thank you very much for your update.

Just another general question, is it common that indie games are made at that low resolutions still? I've made two games prior, and we opted for a high resolution on both times.
 

Rimshot

Member
And a general question for the people here, as I see a lot of 2D games being made with Unity :) How do you all feel that is working for you? I always heard that it was not that good for 2D.
 
Thank you very much for your update.

Just another general question, is it common that indie games are made at that low resolutions still? I've made two games prior, and we opted for a high resolution on both times.

I only make mine at a low res because it's better fitting for my style of game which is like super metroid and older 16 bit games, it also runs rather well on iOS devices which I am aiming for.

And making sprites and tiles for that size is a lot easier to mouse art :)
 

cbox

Member
Sorry to add to your feature creep :x

I really liked having a visual sense of accomplishment, and it gives a little bit of feedback on how you play.

Mentioned this to my friend and he's going to put it in, thanks for the suggestion! We're going to make it so that you can knock the particles out of the way, maybe keeping around 10% of enemies bits on the screen at all times.

Just another general question, is it common that indie games are made at that low resolutions still? I've made two games prior, and we opted for a high resolution on both times.

I created all my assets in super high res and just downsampled them at output. That way if we ever make a retina style conversion everything will be all ready to go. Also depends on the art style of the game.
 

borius

Neo Member
Our level editor now exports the scene using the xml format, you can use it in your Ogre project easily and with some effort elsewhere.
It's currently in beta and the project aims to provide a simple level editor for Ogre users. Will be open source later this year


DOWNLOAD BETA 1.1

Features:
&#9679; Entities editor (transformations, material, properties)
&#9679; User defined objects system.
&#9679; Lights editor
&#9679; Particle systems support (Ogre scripts)
&#9679; Terrain editor (elevation, smoothing, texture painting)
&#9679; Customizable level launcher
&#9679; Xml file format



Video


Now it's time to protoype a game!

@pinasterware or Facebook page
 

Anustart

Member
Hmm... I'm not sure how that fixed it. Based on the screenshot, though, I see some potential issues.

You need to uncheck "Is Trigger" on the collider. Triggers don't have physics collisions.

I think you also need to uncheck "Is Kinematic" on the rigidbody but I'm not super familiar with how to use kinematic objects.

Also on the rigidbody, if this is a 2D game you probably want to check Freeze Position Z, and possibly Freeze Rotation for X, Y, and Z, otherwise your object might move in unexpected ways (especially along the Z axis).

There's some good info about all this here:
http://docs.unity3d.com/Documentation/Components/class-BoxCollider.html

Here's what this looks like in my game (slightly different from what I originally suggested, but actually closer to what you're doing):

Question :) How do you get it to show the folder contents of stuff in your hierarchy in that separate 'tab' to the right? I'd rather mine do that instead of scrolling through a ton of junk in my hierarchy window.

Also, the way I understand it is is that a kinematic object isn't affected by physics at all, and instead all movement is handled via scripting and explicitly applying forces to it. Once I get his movement down right I'll play around with and without kinematic.
 

JulianImp

Member
And a general question for the people here, as I see a lot of 2D games being made with Unity :) How do you all feel that is working for you? I always heard that it was not that good for 2D.

Even without using any of the tools and packages made by the community, Quark Storm worked great after version 3.3 or 3.4, which added RigidBody constraints. I could see some issues with trying to make it work for a sprite-based game (mostly regarding collisions), but all that stuff has probably been solved by other developers by now.

In a nutshell, I'd say a 2.5D game would be relatively easy to do in Unity as-is, but a pure 2D game could require additional tools.
 

razu

Member
I'm toying with the idea of a 'catform' game... mainly as an exercise in modelling, rigging and animation. There's so much to learn and practise!

 

Blizzard

Banned
Sounds like good practice. I'm assuming that's Unity? The AO dark border reminds me of how UDK does it. For some reason I don't think I've ever liked AO. I feel like in real life actual illumination and shadows handle that rather than an artificial dark border around things.
 

phantomsnake

Neo Member
Question :) How do you get it to show the folder contents of stuff in your hierarchy in that separate 'tab' to the right? I'd rather mine do that instead of scrolling through a ton of junk in my hierarchy window.

Right-click on the 'Project' tab and select 'Two Columns Layout'. I think this option was added in Unity 4.

And a general question for the people here, as I see a lot of 2D games being made with Unity :) How do you all feel that is working for you? I always heard that it was not that good for 2D.

It's working out all right. Unity's not really built for 2D so you probably want to use a 3rd party framework. I'm using Orthello myself but there are others.

One issue I ran into when creating a tile map is a "bleeding" effect from adjacent tiles in the tileset. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't see an issue like that in a proper 2D engine, but you can work around it by adding a bit of margin on the tiles so it's not so bad.

Also, JulianImp is right about collision handling being an issue. I found it pretty tricky to get collisions to work right in my game, though I think my issues are partly a result of the game being tile based. For example, I had issues with my character slipping through the space between tiles (even though the tiles were fully touching).

Overall, though, it's pretty good.
 

shaowebb

Member
Awhile back I posted a partially finished run cycle rough for my game that I'm making. I had a looong stretch though where I had to do some art tests, went on vacation, and became a mod on another forum so a lot got in the way of work for awhile. Anyhow thats all over and I banged out the last of the rough cut. Here's what the run cycle will look like.

BTW this will be a rather different take on running games and I've named both the main character and game Toku Dasher Kirin. I'm hoping to be able to add bosses to the style of gameplay I'm setting up but I'll go into that once coding begins. Anyhow the run cycle.

Here's the before and after.

BEFORE (no pivot and only leg frames done)
XrkQvm9.gif


AFTER (full torso pivot setup)
us9XJsZ.gif



Now its on to doing cleanup versions of each and then their flats and shadows.

In addition to this I roughed out the Rider Kick this character will have for one of his three dash options. He can dash as an attack either up forward, forward, or down forward. The down forward one is only doable during a jump since its a divekick and each is used as a way to control his mobility at high speed as a redirect option. I'll animate the effects in 4 to 5 layers. Beam layer, overlayed in animated plasma layer, overlayed both with trim of flames, overlay that with electrical animated spiral and that overlayed or underlayed with a glowing layer for super effective visual flair to his dash moves. I'll add cloth effects to the animation so that it can trail behind him and redirect to show his trail. Anyhow here's his Rider Kick down forward move and a small doodle of an idea I'm thinking of using for a logo design.

Y6FWATC.jpg
 
Yeah its the assets store. I just read the email today. Says the sale ends 12am put April 11th. That was this morning wasn't it? :/

depends what timezone they are using. it's 9:43am Central here. but i think it's in PST (ends in 4 hours) because i saw in the store there's a 50% off item still available
 

Dascu

Member
I'm toying with the idea of a 'catform' game... mainly as an exercise in modelling, rigging and animation. There's so much to learn and practise!


How do you even get this kind of lighting in Unity? What settings, materials, lights, etc.? Is it Unity Pro only?
 
I'm quite behind in where I wanted to be with my game, A lot has changed including a better collision setup, higher frame rate and some better animations but it's cost me more time then I expected it to.

I have a week off work coming up and my plan is to make it a 9 day crunch week including both weekends, going to pack away my consoles and just get down to the dirty with my game.

Should be fun... I have the entire harry potter movie collection to help me get through it and the formula 1 race this weekend.
 

Blizzard

Banned
How do you even get this kind of lighting in Unity? What settings, materials, lights, etc.? Is it Unity Pro only?
He hasn't actually confirmed it's Unity though I figure it has to be. I think Unity Pro has Beast, the lightmapper that was used for Mirror's Edge, so it's probably that.
 

razu

Member
How do you even get this kind of lighting in Unity? What settings, materials, lights, etc.? Is it Unity Pro only?

He hasn't actually confirmed it's Unity though I figure it has to be. I think Unity Pro has Beast, the lightmapper that was used for Mirror's Edge, so it's probably that.

Yeah, it's just Unity's light-mapping, plus some camera effects, (probably all Pro, which I bought for freelance work).

I'd like to make a game where you can't see the triangles. I just put this scene together to test image effects and reflections. It's Unity again. Looks pretty mesmerising in motion. Contrast is low because of the cubemap I think, (just a default one). I kinda like it though.

raw86Ci.jpg
 

AlexM

Member
1)
So you're saying delegates are basically function pointers back from the days of C? *strokes neckbeard and makes trollface*

Pretty much exactly only they are more strongly typed since if you pass a function with the wrong number of parameters it's a compile time error.

2)

Working on reimplementing my collision system. Currently it just takes all the objects positions then moves them out using the MTV but that causes a ton of problems with things like tilemaps causing the player to get moved double if he's standing on 2 tiles.

New system is when collide is called, the parameters are saved in a queue until a post-update step. At post-update the collisions are handled in the order they are entered and the collisions are calculated by projecting the player by their velocity. Each collision uses the MTV to adjust the velocity so that projection no longer overlaps.

On paper this seems to solve my problems, hopefully it does. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of edge cases I haven't considered.



3)

Tried to start learning unity through a Probuilder contest. Got pretty sick and never got to finish my entry but I did win a copy of Probuilder for Unity in a WIP contest leading up to the final submission :)

Here what I had up to that point though:

tumblr_mkvm7iUqMk1rc9vrqo1_1280.png
 

Dynamite Shikoku

Congratulations, you really deserve it!
Yeah, it's just Unity's light-mapping, plus some camera effects, (probably all Pro, which I bought for freelance work).

I'd like to make a game where you can't see the triangles. I just put this scene together to test image effects and reflections. It's Unity again. Looks pretty mesmerising in motion. Contrast is low because of the cubemap I think, (just a default one). I kinda like it though.

raw86Ci.jpg

That looks rad
 

Blizzard

Banned
I'm toying with the idea of a 'catform' game... mainly as an exercise in modelling, rigging and animation. There's so much to learn and practise!


Yeah, it's just Unity's light-mapping, plus some camera effects, (probably all Pro, which I bought for freelance work).
Cool. Do you mind sharing your material node graph or however Unity specifies it, for the white surfaces? And any important camera effects too, if they're not super secret. I'd like to try to recreate it as a learning exercise. :)
 
So gentleGAF.
I recently bought a Steam Greenlight Pass in prep for my teams game popping out soon. I come to you for advice since I kknow a few of you are on or have been greenlit.

Now, I'm not going to submit until I have an actual demo out (which should be soonish, I had a version out during Kansas Comic-Con last week that people responded well to but we also found some bugs and needed to change the menu UI), but I have a few questions, such as:

1) to record video of your games, I am fairly certain you don't use FRAPS. Or do you?
2) what constitutes a working build, since a lot of games on Greenlight have not even reached their financial goal on Kickstarter.
 
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