If there's something else you think people should know about, I'm at jason@kotaku.com.
IndieStatik Founder apologizes for "inappropriate" comments to female game dev
- Thread starter benny_a
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Seriously? If you disagree with me, at least use your head and reply with rational, logical arguments. You're likening these harmless one-off Facebook comments to rape. Get a grip.
Look at all the gentlemen here out for blood. I guess none of you ever got shitfaced and did something you regretted the next day or whenever someone told you about it.
Well, I did. But that's okay because I can safely say that I have never put a private conversation online for people to see, to discredit someone in it, after I ignored anything the other person said that I didn't like and before I gave them a chance to apologize at least. And yes, I know that her friend put it online.
Well, I did. But that's okay because I can safely say that I have never put a private conversation online for people to see, to discredit someone in it, after I ignored anything the other person said that I didn't like and before I gave them a chance to apologize at least. And yes, I know that her friend put it online.
maquiladora
Member
Cringe Factor 5000.
Necromanti
Member
What a gross individual. Talk about uncomfortable, and he wouldn't drop it, either. I can't believe she'd respond to him after that, or not tell him to stop because it's entirely inappropriate and unasked for. People like him don't understand unless they are explicitly told to back off, or better yet, just ignore him. She tries to avoid addressing the issue and responds to other aspects of his messages, but that only makes him think that what he was doing was okay. A lot of women, unfortunately, are confronted with sexual harassment all their lives, and learn avoidance defense mechanisms.
NoirVisage
Banned
Looming?
It's past that, the wussifying of the male species has been completed, who's side are YOU on EmCeeGramr. and that better not be no metaphor fer girl power >__<.
Fair enough, then feel free to get outraged over this. I'm pretty sure you're an exception, though.
That Sunday conversation looks like it's missing a post from her. What was he saying "I know" about? Looks like a reply to something she wrote:
The whole exchange doesn't make the 'I was drunk angle' look good tbh... he seems very coherent and the grammar is good also. If he was seriously drunk I'd be surprised if he was forming sentences like that.
Devolution
Member
No, you're just projecting to make yourself feel better about what you did.
Someone I had a strictly professional relationship with? Definitely sexual harassment.
If a woman hits a man, do you consider it conjugal violence? Or does it not matter because 'women are weaker than men'?
Aquamarine
Member
Of course it is. Sexual harassment is sexual harassment, and it's not okay in any context.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
He's going to need a better one.
If it's unwanted and offensive to the targeted party, it's harassment, regardless of orientation or gender.
Oh Jesus. Sorry, I think you've all misunderstood me here. It's my fault as I didn't express myself clearly, as it's past midnight where I am and I'm tired. I have no info on this that isn't in the public domain, sorry. I meant exposed from the point when the anonymous Facebook chat was posted on Twitter, to less than an hour later where his name and site is posted on the front page of Kotaku. :/
Sorry, I didn't intend to imply that I had any other knowledge on this. I wrote a really long post (mostly about depression), and then filed it down to what you all quoted which was basically my opinion on today's events written really poorly, and yeah. Blegh. Sorry.
He wasn't drunk. She asked and he said "no, just fat thumbs"
It's just one of his excuses because he got busted. His dead brother is his other excuse. Now, feel sorry for him so he can go do worse, to cope with his hard life.
NoirVisage
Banned
So do you get shitfaced for 8+ hours as well.
Riposte
Member
I don't really consider the guy a total monster, because I don't think he was leveraging any power over her. Completely unprofessional, but without that element I don't know how much ire a misguided horny drunk (possibly looking too far into a friendship?) should create. (EDIT: Which isn't to say "no ire", more like, maybe not "he must be immediately removed from the industry/beyond redemption")
Because she totally didn't bring it up in her self-obsessed way of thinking.
I find that Leigh has no redeemable traits, so I'm not above criticizing her when she does something annoying yet again.
Because she totally didn't bring it up in her self-obsessed way of thinking.
I find that Leigh has no redeemable traits, so I'm not above criticizing her when she does something annoying yet again.
There are fucked up people out there but let's not pretend that everyone sent her a death threat. The overwhelming majority was just incredibly annoyed by her bombcast appearance. And I'm also pretty sure a couple of particularly polarizing male personalities in the industry have received those kind of twitter messages as well. Hell, the Bioware writers may have received death threats for the ME3 ending. Nope, that shit just comes with the territory (the internet).
I completely forgot about it until she brought it up again.
Look at the timestamps. No excuse.
freenudemacusers
Member
'creepy loser' are the first words that come to mind.
Is this offensive, though? That's supposed to be a genuine question. I wouldn't have considered it offensive if it had been directed at me. I think basing what is and isn't sexual harrassment on whether the recipient found a comment offensive is rather dangerous, considering how much people's opinions on what is offensive are going to differ.
Is there more to this story? She doesn't tell him to stop in those shots of the facebook conversation. If it was unwanted it's certainly harassment. I suppose the fact that he apologized is direct evidence of it being harassment, though the Kotaku article and apology don't seem to mention the victim being offended by this at all.
Just a little friendly advice on how to be a better poster: If that's what you were trying to say, it would have been prudent to emphasize that over the MRA thread derailment.
IdreamofHIME
Member
Prat, but it could be worse.
Lord Rennard has some crazy people defending him on TV. One was like "Sure he touched some women's bums and legs, but they were wearing clothing. It's not like he's Jimmy Saville."
Just amazing.
I'm pretty sure any post that even seems to be upset with her is more about her turning this real issue into being about her.
EmCeeGramr
Member
"One-off" comments that lasted for two hours, and then resumed the next morning.
He uses it as excuse in his apology.
Whilst I wouldn't be outraged, if a female colleague of mine started messaging me about putting her vagina on my penis, I'd ask her if she was fucking high and warn her that my missus would break her face if she found out. Then I'd advise her to work on her dirty talk because terms like 'penis' and 'vagina' ain't doing shit for anyone.
Ill laugh the first two ones, but look at the time stamps, its two hours of that shit and then some more at 6am just in time for breakfast, so yeah thats sexual harassment. Not sure why you think that our outrage is not justified while your outrage about our outrage somehow is.
People are expressing that its kinda shitty that she is trying to make this story about her when its about sexual harassment, you know, the think that mostly happens to women that we should cull. Its kinda silly that you try to turn this into a "boy vs girl" thing when she is the one doing the harm here.
Aquamarine
Member
She did give one piece of evidence to show she was perturbed by it...when she said "Are you tipsy?"
The burden isn't on her to demonstrate her victim status in a situation like this. It's very possible that she dismissed / joked about the subject because she was scared / didn't want to provoke anything.
Devolution
Member
Sir can I inquire about you putting your throbbing rod in my quivering quim.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
I don't believe in Boycotts, but seeing as I think I might have watched a total of maybe 2 IndieStatik videos in my time, I'll just continue not visiting their site. Simple.
I get all my Indie information from IndieGames.com and RockLeeSmile and sometimes Nerd3 when he does them or TotalBiscuit. (I don't care, I don't want to hear it.)
That was just cringeworthy. Like WTF wow.
And even if the roles were reversed, yes it would still be harassment and completely inappropriate. Especially in a work environment.
I get all my Indie information from IndieGames.com and RockLeeSmile and sometimes Nerd3 when he does them or TotalBiscuit. (I don't care, I don't want to hear it.)
That was just cringeworthy. Like WTF wow.
And even if the roles were reversed, yes it would still be harassment and completely inappropriate. Especially in a work environment.
Ah, you're right. Didn't see that the last one was posted on the next day. Still, if it ended after that, I'd consider it all part of one conversation. Although that does place it a little closer to harrassment territory in my opinion.
Necromanti
Member
Sorry, but if a man harasses me with explicit messages and continues to do so after showing no interest in reciprocating, then I'm not exactly going to feel flattered about it. I've lost a friend that way, and it's not very comfortable for the recipient.
NoirVisage
Banned
huh? What the fluff is this?
She showed up wasted on the E3 Bombcast 2 years in a row. On both occasions she was disruptive and rude. The second time around was worse. She was called out on it (by the audience and some peers) and tried to cover up her bad judgement by hiding behind a poorly constructed defense consisting of "you're all bros and you just hate me because feminism." Which is not only insulting to real feminist issues, it's also insulting to the intelligence of anyone who was listening to the show.
Castle Doctrine
Member
She took the embarrassingly bad flirting attempts in stride though. I give her credit.
That said, if I did something like this, I wouldn't give a long and drawn out sobbing apology like this, as if I murdered people. I would make a joke about it with an apology perhaps slipped in, because really, his texts are so bad they're actually funny. Even so, his ineptitude is out there on the internet now so he might never fully recover from it.
That said, if I did something like this, I wouldn't give a long and drawn out sobbing apology like this, as if I murdered people. I would make a joke about it with an apology perhaps slipped in, because really, his texts are so bad they're actually funny. Even so, his ineptitude is out there on the internet now so he might never fully recover from it.
ohbabyitsken
Banned
That's not really correct. In the end it depends on whether the person perceives it as harassment or not which means it's quite subjective.
freenudemacusers
Member
they're talking about work, and it was not reciprocated at all. not sure what else you would call it. maybe 'pathetic and weird', but an unsolicited text message to a work colleague at 6am on Sunday about how good you are at making women cum... I'd probably call it harassment, too.
... okay firstly, WOW. This was just baffling to read.
Secondly, this isn't him asking her out or something. This is him making hugely inappropriate comments to a woman he's supposed to have a relatively professional relationship with, and with her having provided zero reason to assume that this was okay. Next time you're at work, ask a female coworker to do you a favor, and in return, offer to perform cunnilingus on her. Come back and tell me just how incredibly uncomfortable her face looks right as you ask that.
Thirdly, no, if it were a woman saying this shit to a man and were posted for public consumption, it too would be scrutinized and come off as super sleazy. This isn't some biased slant. It's a fucking sleazeball being a creepy fucking sleazeball.
I'm not saying it's a great thing to do or that I'd be overjoyed by it. I'm just saying I don't find it to be as despicable or awful as everyone here makes it out to be.
SeanNoonan
Member
My spine could hardly take the cringe, though I'm not going to lie, I was laughing pretty hard by the end of this.
...and then I thought about all involved. Shitty for all involved, though the lasting damage will be on Josh, that aint gonna go down well in indie circles.
Weird that she didn't just say "whoa there, hold your horses, let's not go there"... it sucks, but she's gotta be used to it by now, having worked with so many nerdy men.
A couple of women I know in the industry have said they have difficulty knowing when they can or can't go for a drink or coffee without them leading guys on - it's pretty rough and awkward. She should have nipped it in the bud, but really it's on him.
...and then I thought about all involved. Shitty for all involved, though the lasting damage will be on Josh, that aint gonna go down well in indie circles.
Weird that she didn't just say "whoa there, hold your horses, let's not go there"... it sucks, but she's gotta be used to it by now, having worked with so many nerdy men.
A couple of women I know in the industry have said they have difficulty knowing when they can or can't go for a drink or coffee without them leading guys on - it's pretty rough and awkward. She should have nipped it in the bud, but really it's on him.
Now that's what I'm talking about, a little coquettish flirtation. No need to be flashing your ankles on the first conversation.
And why do these people always feel the need to state that they give great head and they love it? Why is there always some '14 more nerves' biology textbook shit thrown in? It just sounds like a pre-emptive coping mechanism for not being able to bring the goods in other areas. So creepy that my skin has crawled off my body and now I look like an extra from Beetlejuice.
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