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[QuicheFontaine]

And it only took 27 years, absolute disgrace. Hopefully those that covered it up finally get what's coming to them for smearing grieving families.

96 people have been declared murdered, this is a beginning as much as an end unfortunately.

I think there's a legal distinction between unlawful killing and murder, in that murder requires premeditation. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can clarify?

But I echo everything else. This has been a long time coming, and really shameful to see the justice system drag its feet so much.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Great news, I can't believe how fucked up the coverup was.

 

[OverBlood 3]

Piers Morgan?

Shit not piers Morgan. Who am I thinking of :/

 

[Subpar Scrub]

Yep and then you posted that it was because of "people rushing to watch a soccer game" which is the kind of nonsense people come out with to blame the fans that were involved rather than the actual people who should be held responsible. I wasn't trying to feel superior or anything. I support the club and have done so since birth, I've been to a few of the memorials and for an incredibly long period of time there's been a misconception that the fans were to blame for what happened and that's how your post came across to me. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way from your later posts though so apologies for being a bit touchy.

Edit: for more information, this is worth reading: http://www.hfdinfo.com/

Cheers for the link, yeah my initial response was really lacking in detail and I probably came across as a dick. The fact that the first few articles I read simply said "Fans were directed into a crowded area and a crush occurred" made me pissed off until I got more details. It read like the fans were desperate to get into the small area to see the field, so they pushed against the crowd, but it seems they figured there was space and were only trying to move the crowd along. Makes sense, still scary to think about though.

That coupled with info regarding the lack of a safety certificate makes the situation make a bit more sense. Sorry about that.

 

[bjaelke]

Shit not piers Morgan. Who am I thinking of :/

Thatcher/Ingham?

Spoiler

 

[Floody]

Its far too late for that. Do they even bother selling The Sun in Liverpool?

Most stores refuse to stock it.

 

[OverBlood 3]

Thatcher/Ingham?

Spoiler

Of course.

I can't imagine the pain of not only knowing your child has been killed but that they were tested for alcohol to lay the blame at their feet.

 

[elseanio]

It is remarkable how the families of those lost have held up through all these years.

 

[Regginator]

i wasn't even born when this tragedy happened, but wasn't this the cause for the fa to stop having standing stands like germany?

 

[Vagabundo]

Good news. About bloody time.

 

[backflip10019]

How the fuck did it take them so long to come to this conclusion? It's good news, though.

I'd never heard of this even before. I've been to countless sports matches over the course of my life and couldn't imagine anything like this ever happening.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Just wondering USGAF or non-football/soccer GAF in general, what would be your knowledge on this disaster and is there anything in US sports that would rival it?

There is nothing in US sports that would rival this. This is such a despicable evil situation that I'm at a loss for any analogy.

 

[Bumhead]

RIP to the 96 and good to see justice at last.

This is an absolutely sickening betrayal of the public in this country by the establishment of the time. It's not even the only one.

i wasn't even born when this tragedy happened, but wasn't this the cause for the fa to stop having standing stands like germany?

Yes, as recommended by The Taylor Report, although my personal opinion is that this point of view needs revising. As long as the state no longer opts to treat football supporters like aninals by herding them into pens and behind steel fences, there's no reason why the Hillsborough disaster would be replicated as a direct risk of standing terraces.

 

[Zelias]

I'm a Sheffielder and the Hillsborough Disaster happened on the day before my 2nd birthday. I'm now 29. It's nothing short of disgraceful that it's taken so long to get to this point, but I'm glad the families of the 96 can at least have a measure of justice now.

 

[King_Moc]

Yes, as recommended by The Taylor Report, although my personal opinion is that this point of view needs revising. As long as the state no longer opts to treat football supporters like aninals by herding them into pens and behind steel fences, there's no reason why the Hillsborough disaster would be replicated as a direct risk of standing terraces.

Agreed. We should have safe standing now. Now cages means no crush.

 

[Jezbollah]

I am happy for the families and friends of the 96 with this news. However it's a disgrace it took 27 years for today's events to happen. The tragedy and it's resulting justice should be something we should never forget.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

OKAY.

In 1989, 95 people were crushed to death at the Hillsborough Soccer Stadium, Sheffield, England when police opened gates to alleviate crowding, resulting in a rush of people onto the already filled terrace. The barriers broke under the weight of the crowd which then toppled forwards and downwards, crushing those at the bottom.

People entering were unaware of the problems at the fence; police or stewards usually stood at the entrance to the tunnel and, when the central pens reached capacity, directed fans to the side pens, but on this occasion, for reasons not fully explained, did not

Holy shit. I had no idea about these parts.

 

[Bumhead]

How the fuck did it take them so long to come to this conclusion? It's good news, though.

I'd never heard of this even before. I've been to countless sports matches over the course of my life and couldn't imagine anything like this ever happening.

It's difficult to attend any modern stadium and imagine something like this happening.

I'm a Wednesday supporter and have been to Hillsborough hundreds of times. It's difficult to imagine it happening even there in today's climate, despite the fact the Leppings Lane end has barely changed structurally.

I don't think it's possible to overstate the state level contempt for football supporters at that time, or even the working classes in generally (looking at incidents such as Orgreave and the minors strikes, as a not too distant departure from Hillsborough). It's almost a shame Thatcher popped it before we reached this point.

 

[TM94]

Nothing less than a deep-rooted on the working class by the establishment.

Working class people didn't matter to them, they were worthless and undeserving of justice.

I have such deep admiration for the families and the city of Liverpool for refusing to let the concocted narrative spun by the vile Tory state be the truth.

 

[Plasma]

Cameron has the nerve to congratulate them on finally getting justice after what he's said before.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hillsborough-families-demand-david-cameron-87669

 

[Cheshire_Buddha]

I'm watching the 30 for 30 now. Horrible. Seeing the bodies crushed against the fence... Oh, my God.

Can't believe it took so long for a resolution.

 

[Macadinho94]

Hillsborough disaster: deadly mistakes and lies that lasted decades

Very insightful article by David Conn.

David Conn has done superb journalism on this in the past few years. One of the excellent team of writers at the Guardian

 

[CCS]

Hillsborough disaster: deadly mistakes and lies that lasted decades

Very insightful article by David Conn.

This is a superb article.

 

[bonesmccoy]

Finally.

 

[Par Score]

Justice for the 96.

It's always been fucking sickening as a Man Utd supporter to hear the morons in our crowd singing their heinous Hillsborough related chants, I can only hope this shuts them down for good (fat chance).

Thatcher/Ingham?

Spoiler

Only 3 more years until the various internal government documents relating to Hillsborough become public. It's not going to be pretty.

Today is a huge victory for justice, but only the beginning of justice being served.

 

[TheLetdown]

For those interested in the 30 for 30, it can be gutwrenching.

I'm not typically squeamish but man, parts were really difficult to watch. Just total situational discomfort, appalling acts of injustice that make you feel for both sides. Security just was not fit for the need. Key decisions magnified it so hard that this judgment seems right to me.

 

[JoeNut]

i still find it astonishing that King Kenny went to every single one of the 96 funerals, what a man of the people he is.

 

[Darth Sonik]

As a nine year old Liverpool fan living in Ireland I was watching the game live on TV, I will never forget watching Bruce Grobbelaar the Liverpool goalkeeper trying to stop the game and get the refs attention as well trying to get the police/officials to act. He was at first confused, and then panicked as he finally realised what was happening. On TV and certainly watching as a kid it was hard to comprehend the full horror that was unfolding.

I remember that RTE stopped showing live pictures as were seeing people being lifted to the higher tier and when people started to get on the pitch. I had to switch to Grandstand on the BBC who had started to cover it, where I remember those fans being carried on advertising boards. I remember seeing the ITV News at Ten coverage that night where I believe the disgusting police lies were first aired.

None of those made any sense to me at the time, but I had watched the whole thing unfold unlike those living in the UK. That day I went through confusion, panic, incomprehension, disbelief, sadness and then finally anger when I heard those police lies.

Since then of course I have found out what happened that day, and how the authorities and some of the media treated the city, the fans, the witnesses, the survivors and the dead on the day itself, and in the days, weeks, months, years and decades after.

JFT96.

 

[superdeluxe]

Did not know about Hillsborough, then watched the 30 by 30. Glad justice is finally served and glad that the Liverpool fans have been exonerated.

 

[Patriotsbball5460]

Just wondering USGAF or non-football/soccer GAF in general, what would be your knowledge on this disaster and is there anything in US sports that would rival it?

Learned about this in college through a History of Modern Sports class a few years back. Even though I am a pretty big sports fan, I had never heard of it until then. Watched the 30 for 30 a few months ago to learn some more, and it was really eye opening. It also happened before I was born, so that could play a role in having never heard of it before.

And no, I can't think of anything like this in recent American sports

 

[Charles Brandon]

For those wondering why it took so long to be resolved, the answer is that the whole thing was covered up by South Yorkshire police who shifted the blame onto the fans and lied and did other things contrary to the spirit of justice. As this 'official' view of events was also supported by many elements in the media, with added accusations thrown in for good measure...

Spoiler

...the official view, swiftly became the accepted view AKA The Truth in the minds of the establishment, the media, the police and much of the population and rival sets of supporters. Liverpool does not have a good reputation, so it was easy to convince people that the scousers, in the words of a popular terrace song "killed their own fans".

 

[kavanf1]

I remember the spin being pushed on this for a long long time afterwards was "drunken, out of control fans pushing forward despite police's best efforts". It's incredible to think that this attempt at deception on such a grand scale actually happened. Every time I read about this over the years I get tears in my eyes thinking about how much pain these families have had to endure to get justice. And today's ruling is not the end. It only means that they may now have grounds for prosecution, but that might not even happen. I suppose after all this time it will boil down to whether or not it is "in the public's best interest".

 

[Upinsmoke]

The right decision and now hopefully people can finally stop peddling these lies and myths about the fans that went to Hillsborough and never came home.

Hopefully the people who are culpable will now be facing prosecution.

 

[Altazor]

27 years of tireless fighting - against the media, the establishment, that part of society that believed the fabricated lies. Survivors, families and an entire city shamelessly vilified.

27 years. Picture that.

Now the fight for Truth is finally over, and the fight for Justice really begins.

Justice for the 96.

 

[elseanio]

For those wondering why it took so long to be resolved, the answer is that the whole thing was covered up by South Yorkshire police who shifted the blame onto the fans and lied and did other things contrary to the spirit of justice. As this 'official' view of events was also supported by many elements in the media, with added accusations thrown in for good measure...


...the official view, swiftly became the accepted view AKA The Truth in the minds of the establishment, the media, the police and much of the population and rival sets of supporters. Liverpool does not have a good reputation, so it was easy to convince people that the scousers, in the words of a popular terrace song "killed their own fans".

Could you spoiler tag the image, as someone did above?

 

[TheLetdown]

Just wondering USGAF or non-football/soccer GAF in general, what would be your knowledge on this disaster and is there anything in US sports that would rival it?

USGAF and non-soccerGAF here. I knew of the incident as a reference, with the vague idea that it was a massive sports-related disaster. Specifically, that it was the fans' fault.

Watching the 30 for 30 really opened me up to it. Specifically, that it was not the fans' fault.

The US rival would be the Atlanta Olympics bombing, maybe, but that was terrorism through and through. The result of the security guard who discovered the bomb and saved lives by clearing people getting accused, annihilated by the media, and had like a decade of his life robbed from him because of it could share some of the parallels of the media madness.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Could you spoiler tag the image, as someone did above?

er...ok. Why though?

 

[frankie_baby]

er...ok. Why though?

Because the image is offensive

 

[BrassDragon]

I remember studying this case as part of a police crowd control course. Back then, the source of the stampede was still unclear (at least as it was presented to us) but the whole class still went 'why the hell did they leave that gate open with a crowd pouring in?'

And that's before you even go into the ineffective and downright callous triage and salvage procedures that followed.

So even the cover story doesn't hold up to the scrutiny, it still paints the CO and his staff as buffoons.

Hopefully the next of kin and survivors get some relief from the truth finally coming out.

 

[FunkyMonk]

firstly I'm glad that the families have got some closure and had their names, and their deceased loved ones, cleared of the disgusting lies spread about them. Now we just need those in charge at the time to face criminal charges regardless of their age.

Justice for the 96.

It's always been fucking sickening as a Man Utd supporter to hear the morons in our crowd singing their heinous Hillsborough related chants, I can only hope this shuts them down for good (fat chance).

I was at Old Trafford for the recent EL tie and I was absolutely sickened at the chants that started up, absolute fecking morons and, as you say, this will not stop them.

Only 3 more years until the various internal government documents relating to Hillsborough become public. It's not going to be pretty.

Today is a huge victory for justice, but only the beginning of justice being served.

They'll be interesting but it won't surprise me if they somehow get lost, just like the CCTV footage from the ground mysteriously disappeared. The establishment will protect its own.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Because the image is offensive

Well, I suppose this isn't really the place to debate that point of view, so I'm just going to say...OK.

 

[Red Devil]

Excuse my ignorance, but hadn't it been known for years that it was the police's fault?

 

[MegaMelon]

It's a start. Let's hope this is just the beginning and justice will be served. What an awful way to die though, RIP.

Because the image is offensive

Not to derail the thread but how is the front cover of the Sun offensive? Sure it's flat out wrong but I don't think anyone will be triggered so much that we need to start hiding newspaper headlines behind spoiler tags.

 

[CalamityPixel]

As a Sheffield Wednesday fan, it's hard not to think about that event when at the stadium. Justice for the 96.

Nearly 30 years that families have been seeking justice, some will have never lived to see it unfortunately. This never should have dragged out so long.

 

[Markitron]

Excuse my ignorance, but hadn't it been known for years that it was the police's fault?

Yes and no, the information was out there for years and obvious to anyone that studied the case. The significance of today was that they have been officially/legally acknowledged to be victims of police negligence. Beforehand their deaths were ruled to be accidents.

Not to derail the thread but how is the front cover of the Sun offensive? Sure it's flat out wrong but I don't think anyone will be triggered so much that we need to start hiding newspaper headlines behind spoiler tags.

A lot of people find that image upsetting, I suppose it's never really been brought up here, but it's not generally something that is posted without good reason.

 

[Sane_Man]

It's unbelievable that it took this long for the obvious truth to come out. My aunty's second husband (thankfully not my uncle) was an officer for the South Yorkshire police during the tragedy and for years he peddled the lie like the rest of them. Constantly arguing with me that the Liverpool fans caused the crush, that he was there and I wasn't, even arguing that records were changed to exonerate the Liverpool fans, rather than the other way around which is what the actual facts have demonstrated. It was maddening, especially as a Liverpool fan who had followed the case since a young age.

Only in the last couple of years has he started to yield, saying his memory has blackouts and he thinks he made false memories and is undergoing therapy. It just goes to show how deep the lie was indoctrinated into the police at the time.

Fuck Duckenfield, fuck Thatcher, fuck Boris Johnson, fuck Kelvin Mackenzie, fuck Rupert Murdoch, fuck David Cameron. Fuck all of them. JFT 96.

 

[Red Devil]

Yes and no, the information was out there for years and obvious to anyone that studied the case. The significance of today was that they have been officially/legally acknowledged to be victims of police negligence. Beforehand their deaths were ruled to be accidents.

Thanks for the clarification, I always thought the Hillsborough disaster was caused due to police negligence and thought that what was determined by the british authorities, either way, the acknowledgement of the deaths not being accidental is very important.

I'll keep an eye on this because in here

Spoiler

(Argentina)

there're a lot of lies that have been told about this and the aftermath.

 

[Fakeknowledge]

Adrian Durham on Talksport not fucking about.

https://soundcloud.com/talksport/adrian-durhams-hillsborough-reaction

 

[Tawpgun]

Awesome.

YNWA

 

[| Praxis |]

It's disgusting it has taken this long. Some of the pictures of the fans suffocating against the barriers still haunt me, what a terrible way to die and so needlessly. Just a shameful.