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[Meicyn]

19 out of 20 games on the PS5 are GPU limited.

The fact that games that don't offer a 60fps mode at all are an anomaly already tells you that the Baldur's Gates, Dragon's Dogmas or Gotham Knights of the world are isolated cases and not the norm for current-gen console gaming (and even then, two out of those three games only run at 30fps because their developers suck ass and screwed up the engine/optimization).

FWIW, Dragon’s Dogma 2 has a decent framerate outside of the capital city if you turn raytracing off. I honestly don’t know why Capcom shipped the game with it forced on. It’s infinitely better to play with it off after today’s patch, as the cost to performance for realistic lighting isn’t worth it. It’s definitely not 60 fps unless you’re underground in a cave, but it feels like it hovers around the 40s and 50s in the overworld.

Which likely means consistent 60 fps will be very feasible when the pro ships. I expect dips to framerate in the capital city will remain unless they unfuck the NPCs sucking so much CPU power like Larian did for Baldur’s Gate 3. Here’s hoping.

 

[Gaiff]

It's amusing how bent out of shape some have become knowing an affordable console is around the corner that will humble the majority of PC gaming hardware. Oh wait, everyone has a 4090 these days...

At least the Xbox faithful who parroted the power narrative are just saying "**** it! I'll buy a PS5 Pro".

Then we have Digital Foundry who bought into the PR nonsense about Series X - and who can forget the "best value in gaming" line they kept repeating about Series S.

All I care about is I'll be able to play GT7 in 4K/60, in-game RT, and a **** load of headroom for other improvements if PD fully utilise PSSR. If you're thinking any deeper than what this console can do for your favourite games or franchises - then you're putting too much thought into it!

Feeling better now, little warrior?

 

[digital_ghost]

I know the consumer requirements.

Spoiler

get a 3rd job

 

[Mibu no ookami]

That's not the point. The point is running at constant 60 fps.



Baldurs Gate III, Lords of the Fallen, Dragons Dogma II, The Finals, FF XVI

You can quote me when the PS5 Pro releases and wont be able to run them at 60

FF16? You REALLY don't know what you're talking about...

 

[paolo11]

Feeling better now, little warrior?

This made me laugh hahaha.

I’m happy the ps5 pro will happen this year. I do pray the FF7 trilogy remakes and 16 will get patched and supported. I do hope it will fix Elden ring’s stuttering issues as well

 

[TGO]

Digital Foundry disagrees with you, and I think they know what they are talking about

Outside of what their computer tells them.....not really.

 

[Gaiff]

This made me laugh hahaha.

I’m happy the ps5 pro will happen this year. I do pray the FF7 trilogy remakes and 16 will get patched and supported. I do hope it will fix Elden ring’s stuttering issues as well

Almost certain that they will. FF XVI especially needs it with its massive fps drops outside of combat. Rebirth’s situation isn’t too bad. Oh, and Remake probably isn’t getting any update. I’d need to recheck back on SE’s history with the PS4 Pro though.

Elden Ring’s stutters are traversal related if I’m not mistaken so it’s possible the Pro doesn’t even solve the problems. It does also have a lot of frame drops though so these should be smoothed out considerably.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

While barely improving the CPU?

It's nice to want things, Sony

99% of PS5 games offer a 60fps mode. WTF are you even talking about?…

What are the big games that don’t ? Gotham Knights and Dragons Dogma 2 (which now runs closer to the 48fps VRR window when you turn off RT after todays patch).

IQ is the issue in the 60fps modes which is exactly why they’re even making this console.

 

[Hugare]

99% of PS5 games offer a 60fps mode. WTF are you even talking about?…

What are the big games that don’t ? Gotham Knights and Dragons Dogma 2 (which now runs closer to the 48fps VRR window when you turn off RT after todays patch).

IQ is the issue in the 60fps modes which is exactly why they’re even making this console.

Offering 60 FPS ≠ actually playing at 60

FF16? You REALLY don't know what you're talking about...

Oh I think I do.

See how low resolution is on performance mode and it still cant reach nowhere near 60 in places. It goes way down to 720p. It's definitely limited by the CPU.

Again, come back here after the Pro launches and prove me wrong

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Oh I think I do.

See how low resolution is on performance mode and it still cant reach nowhere near 60 in places. It goes way down to 720p. It's definitely limited by the CPU.

Again, come back here after the Pro launches and prove me wrong

You literally don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Hugare]

You literally don't know what you're talking about.

At 11:00: "but during any open areas, towns or cities it gets closer to 30 than 60"

Hint: its not because of the GPU, and wont magically jump to 60 with the Pro with only 10% increase in the CPU

Educate yourself

 

[Imtjnotu]

Again wait to see this thing run before passing judgement

arm chair Engineers and arm chair devs have already made up their mind

 

[MCplayer]

I just want GT7 to be path traced like this

 

[bitbydeath]

While barely improving the CPU?

It's nice to want things, Sony

Is frame rate even entirely CPU based anymore?
If so, how does the graphics / performance modes work currently?

I’m genuinely asking, because if graphics were reliant on only the GPU and frames on only the CPU then we shouldn’t get an option of graphics / performance right?

 

[Embearded]

Offering 60 FPS ≠ actually playing at 60


Oh I think I do.

See how low resolution is on performance mode and it still cant reach nowhere near 60 in places. It goes way down to 720p. It's definitely limited by the CPU.

Again, come back here after the Pro launches and prove me wrong

If a game drops the resolution to keep the frames steady, wouldn't that be because the GPU can't keep up and not the CPU?

 

[paolo11]

Almost certain that they will. FF XVI especially needs it with its massive fps drops outside of combat. Rebirth’s situation isn’t too bad. Oh, and Remake probably isn’t getting any update. I’d need to recheck back on SE’s history with the PS4 Pro though.

Elden Ring’s stutters are traversal related if I’m not mistaken so it’s possible the Pro doesn’t even solve the problems. It does also have a lot of frame drops though so these should be smoothed out considerably.

Although remake’s performance mode is really beautiful (ps5) I do hope they can up it to PSSR 4k.


I love FF7 remake / rebirth and OG so much haha

 

[paolo11]

At 11:00: "but during any open areas, towns or cities it gets closer to 30 than 60"

Hint: its not because of the GPU, and wont magically jump to 60 with the Pro with only 10% increase in the CPU

Educate yourself

I kinda hope it’s not CPU related but optimization issue. If it’s CPU related , it’s a bummer but I read FF16 team will try to improve performance mode on the next patch. I get open world there will be drops but I’m surprised Martha’s Inn has low frame rate or other cities and it’s not a big city as other games.

 

[Hugare]

If a game drops the resolution to keep the frames steady, wouldn't that be because the GPU can't keep up and not the CPU?

Are frames steady after droping resolution? No

It reaches 30 FPS in cities/towns. So the only answer is it being CPU limited, not GPU limited

I kinda hope it’s not CPU related but optimization issue. If it’s CPU related , it’s a bummer but I read FF16 team will try to improve performance mode on the next patch. I get open world there will be drops but I’m surprised Martha’s Inn has low frame rate or other cities and it’s not a big city as other games.

It can be both. Optimization issue hammering the CPU.

FF XVI's engine seems heavy af. And in any engine cities are hard on the CPU. So an already heavy/unoptimized engine is even harder.

Is frame rate even entirely CPU based anymore?
If so, how does the graphics / performance modes work currently?

I’m genuinely asking, because if graphics were reliant on only the GPU and frames on only the CPU then we shouldn’t get an option of graphics / performance right?

It depends on the game and what its aiming for

NPCs/physics and etc. are CPU bound mostly. So games with cities, with tons of NPCs and etc. use most of the CPU. Usually open world games.

More linear ganes with less NPCs at the same time use mostly the GPU

Both GPU/CPU are equally important for the framerate

 

[DonJimbo]

Interesting just like the ps4 pro and xbox one x nothing new

 

[SHA]

I want the pro mode for stellar blade, not the other wacky modes.

 

[Embearded]

Are frames steady after droping resolution? No

It reaches 30 FPS in cities/towns. So the only answer is it being CPU limited, not GPU limited

Why use the resolution as an argument though?
You are also assuming the CPU is limited and not the GPU. If the GPU is not limited why drop the resolution in the first place?

Anyway, if these requirements are real, i trust the console engineers more than DF who got from pixel counting to video game tech experts in 1 generation.

 

[Yoboman]

Are frames steady after droping resolution? No

It reaches 30 FPS in cities/towns. So the only answer is it being CPU limited, not GPU limited


It can be both. Optimization issue hammering the CPU.

FF XVI's engine seems heavy af. And in any engine cities are hard on the CPU. So an already heavy/unoptimized engine is even harder.


It depends on the game and what its aiming for

NPCs/physics and etc. are CPU bound mostly. So games with cities, with tons of NPCs and etc. use most of the CPU. Usually open world games.

More linear ganes with less NPCs at the same time use mostly the GPU

Both GPU/CPU are equally important for the framerate

FFXVI drops the resolution in combat and holds a steady 60 FPS

They weren't dropping resolution in cities and open world

 

[Rockman33]

This was one of the laziest most ill informed posts I've seen on neogaf and that's quite an achievement.

Again, name me just 5 games that a 10% CPU boost wouldn't deliver a solid 60 fps to, that is specifically CPU restrained.

Hell name me 3.

Gotham knights, BG3 and Dragons dogma 2.

 

[SlimySnake]

That's not the point. The point is running at constant 60 fps.



Baldurs Gate III, Lords of the Fallen, Dragons Dogma II, The Finals, FF XVI

You can quote me when the PS5 Pro releases and wont be able to run them at 60

Actually dg2 is already up to 45 fps with the no rt patch. The game is gpu bound in the open world so they should hit 60 fps in the open world at least.

Towns will require a cpu patch but even a 7800x3d is cpu bottlenecked there.

 

[Raven77]

Outside of the series S completely holding back multiplatform games this generation, the SECOND most annoying thing is the endless talk about wanting 60fps.

Something the average person can't even notice.

I can't wait for the ps6 / 7 when 60fps is standard (yay...) and we can stop pretending like it matters.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

 

[ZehDon]

I don't believe that to be a hard rule. I've definitely played smaller indie games released post cutoff date that did not have PS4 Pro enhancements. All those trash 1-minute platinum games certainly did not have PS4 Pro enhancements

Smaller projects, usually determined based on development team sizes, initial selling price, or game feature sets, are often exempt from the more technical aspects of the certification process, such as support for specific SKU features. This isn't really worth discussing because these aren't the titles one would expect to support the additional hardware anyway. Looking at the PS4 Pro as an example, the reason most AAA developers simply opted for higher resolutions is because it's a config file change using settings already in place for the PC version. Most indie games don't employ techniques like DRS because they simply don't have to, so Sony allows those titles to not support the Pro SKU. AAA games, on the other hand, are typically subject to the full mandates, barring a few manually approved exceptions, because their teams are expected to fully support the technical features of Sony's platforms.

 

[Hugare]

FFXVI drops the resolution in combat and holds a steady 60 FPS

They weren't dropping resolution in cities and open world

It holds at 720p during combat, yeah. But that is not a CPU limited situation.

In towns/cities it is. And dropping to 30 (the lowest shown in the video) shows that even if they did drop resolution in cities, it wouldnt be enough, 'cause that would be CPU related (and they drop compared to Quality mode, only not to 720p like during combat)

Why use the resolution as an argument though?
You are also assuming the CPU is limited and not the GPU. If the GPU is not limited why drop the resolution in the first place?

Anyway, if these requirements are real, i trust the console engineers more than DF who got from pixel counting to video game tech experts in 1 generation.

Its ALSO GPU limited in some scenarios, hence the drop in resolution helping in those instances(battles). But in others (cities), its CPU limited, which is why even after dropping res it doesnt achieve 60.

"Trusting the engineers" doesnt change the facts: its a big GPU jump but a 10% CPU jump.

Actually dg2 is already up to 45 fps with the no rt patch. The game is gpu bound in the open world so they should hit 60 fps in the open world at least.

Towns will require a cpu patch but even a 7800x3d is cpu bottlenecked there.

I doubt it's able to achieve 60 even after patches. Maybe after removing NPCs, but even then, I doubt it. Its Act III BG 3 all over again.

And again, I bet it wont be 60 even on the Pro. 10% CPU jump wouldnt be nowhere near enough.

During exploration? Sure. At towns? Wont be "constant 60"

 

[Crayon]

I'm no expert but it seems like it's going to run pretty good. Mostly because games now are generally running pretty good. Dd2 everyone says runs like shit but it's over 30fps. Game were going under that a lot two generations ago. And last gen, a steady 30 was commendable. Now just about every PS5 game I play is 60.

Some are pushing it, though. A little blurry. A lot blurry. Dropping frames. This upgrade will be enough to breeze through that. Transformative? Eh, probably not. Notable? Sure, if you have any sort of eye for graphics.

It's really not that deep. We're in a anticipatory frenzy right now. The most interesting thing about the PS5 pro is that there's not an Xbox to match. Other than that, but it or don't. It's an option.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

If a game drops the resolution to keep the frames steady, wouldn't that be because the GPU can't keep up and not the CPU?

You are correct. That dude has no fucking idea what he's talking about lmao

 

[Skifi28]

Outside of the series S completely holding back multiplatform games this generation, the SECOND most annoying thing is the endless talk about wanting 60fps.

Something the average person can't even notice.

They certainly can notice it, they just can't talk about it since they have no idea what it is other than certain games "feel" better than others. There is a reason the two most mainstream game series that even non-gamers buy annually have targeted 60fps since the ps3 generation (COD and Fifa.)

 

[DAHGAMING]

While barely improving the CPU?

It's nice to want things, Sony

My thinking as i read the post aswell, we will see but I doubt it unless the CPU specs put there are wrong, we will see.

Looking forward to seeing this and picking it up, taking a nice hook on the jaw from the wife for buying another plastic lump.

Still baffled how Xbox (who are normaly busting out about there power) think they dont have to respond to this console, even if my thinking is there coming with there next gen/ Apple style upgrade early, what a mess that mob are.

 

[Yoboman]

It holds at 720p during combat, yeah. But that is not a CPU limited situation.

In towns/cities it is. And dropping to 30 (the lowest shown in the video) shows that even if they did drop resolution in cities, it wouldnt be enough, 'cause that would be CPU related (and they drop compared to Quality mode, only not to 720p like during combat)


Its ALSO GPU limited in some scenarios, hence the drop in resolution helping in those instances(battles). But in others (cities), its CPU limited, which is why even after dropping res it doesnt achieve 60.

"Trusting the engineers" doesnt change the facts: its a big GPU jump but a 10% CPU jump.


I doubt it's able to achieve 60 even after patches. Maybe after removing NPCs, but even then, I doubt it. Its Act III BG 3 all over again.

And again, I bet it wont be 60 even on the Pro. 10% CPU jump wouldnt be nowhere near enough.

During exploration? Sure. At towns? Wont be "constant 60"

Except frame rate dropping outside of combat has nothing to do with towns. It will drop the exact moment you leave combat, even in a desolate field. It's nothing to do with the CPU and to do with the fact they crank the resolution back up when you are not in combat

From DF:

 

[Xtib81]

As long as I can get 60fps on the big hitters with decent resolution, I'm down. I don't care about Ray tracing though.

 

[Skifi28]

The whole cpu bottleneck discussion is really getting tiring. 99% games are GPU limited. Most of the games that are known to be CPU limited also have issues on PC on much better CPUs. It's a developer issue, not a cpu issue.

Gotham knights, BG3 and Dragons dogma 2.

Like this.

 

[StueyDuck]

I'd really need to see sonys solution with pssr to even slightly be interested.

Gonna be tough making anything as good as dlss

 

[bitbydeath]

It depends on the game and what its aiming for

NPCs/physics and etc. are CPU bound mostly. So games with cities, with tons of NPCs and etc. use most of the CPU. Usually open world games.

More linear ganes with less NPCs at the same time use mostly the GPU

Both GPU/CPU are equally important for the framerate

Not really sure if that answered my question but are you saying a more powerful GPU will improve frame rate, and it is not reliant on a more powerful CPU?

 

[Negotiator101]

Constant 60 FPS, I'll believe it when I see it.

You won't see it.

 

[Embearded]

Its ALSO GPU limited in some scenarios, hence the drop in resolution helping in those instances(battles). But in others (cities), its CPU limited, which is why even after dropping res it doesnt achieve 60.

"Trusting the engineers" doesnt change the facts: its a big GPU jump but a 10% CPU jump.

I still don't understand why you used the resolution drop tp 720p as an argument for CPU limitations.
It drops as low as 720p and because it still can't reach 60fps the CPU must be the problem? And if yes how are you sure the 10% jump will not help here? Are you sure its a linear formula and 10% CPU jump will give 3 more frames?

And for the case of Dragons Dogma, as much as i loved the first one and as much as i want to play DD2, there is no way their developers can justify the performance. It is a case of poor optimization.

As for DF vs actual engineers, google each one of the DF members and see their bio, only 2 of them have a related degree and none of them have ever worked on technical stuff with the exception of maybe Linneman who did some IT work in the past which is not related to video game development, or low level optimization. They count pixels and know a few technical stuff, but they have no idea about the low level stuff.
They can chat in front of the camera about potential future console upgrades all they want, that doesn't make them experts.

When the console is out, we'll see what it can really do, until then i choose to trust the engineers instead of pixel counting youtubers living out of clicks.

 

[xrnzaaas]

60 fps should become a permanent standard, but ffs stop forcing ray tracing on the consoles. I will always turn it off to avoid sacrifice tons of performance.

 

[THE DUCK]

The first machine ability to deliver has me excited about what they can do with this machine. I hope they can deliver a nice sized, quiet machine, they should have another hit here. It sure would be nice if they would ship it with the dual sense edge, would make it feel more premium and maybe take the edge off the price if it's a bit higher.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Need to see this thing in action at this point. I'll actually wait it out for quite a few performance teats before laying down the money.

That's unless they announce some big exclusives to release around launch.

 

[Crayon]

Seems like they could make this $499 discless, no? It could be 599 but either price seems possible.

 

[Bernardougf]

Outside of the series S completely holding back multiplatform games this generation, the SECOND most annoying thing is the endless talk about wanting 60fps.

Something the average person can't even notice.

I can't wait for the ps6 / 7 when 60fps is standard (yay...) and we can stop pretending like it matters.

Just because you are pathologic blind dosent mean the "average" person is my boy.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Offering 60 FPS ≠ actually playing at 60


Oh I think I do.

See how low resolution is on performance mode and it still cant reach nowhere near 60 in places. It goes way down to 720p. It's definitely limited by the CPU.

Again, come back here after the Pro launches and prove me wrong

Okay so FFXVI and Dragons Dogma 2 do not hit 60fps in performance mode.

List the other big name games out of the hundreds of PS5 games that do not have an average framerate of 60fps in their performance mode.

I totally agree the IQ hit needed to get to these performance modes is too much at times which again is the reason this new console exists. To play existing 60fps modes at 1440p, 1800p or 2160p instead of the 720/900/1080p some performance modes use to hit 60 on standard PS5.

I agree PS5 Pro won’t take a game that is currently 30fps only on PS5 and get it to 60fps unless the game is massively GPU bound or RT bound like DD2. Again name the games that are stuck at 30 on PS5?… There’s like 3 lol.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Oh boy. "is this really a pro console?" vs "this is good enough!" Wars are beginning before the thing has even been seen.

 

[FingerBang]

Oh boy. "is this really a pro console?" vs "this is good enough!" Wars are beginning before the thing has even been seen.

12 TFLOPS vs 10 was all the rage but 17 now is meh and unnecessary. Good Gaf never changes!

It's funny because PS5 proved people wrong And Cerny right and I suspect the pro will do the same.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

12 TFLOPS vs 10 was all the rage but 17 now is meh and unnecessary. Good Gaf never changes!

It's funny because PS5 proved people wrong And Cerny right and I suspect the pro will do the same.

War never changes. Not often you see an army turn on itself though. So, actually, that's different. So war changes rarely. And not normally for long.

 

[Sirolf]

Just because you are pathologic blind dosent mean the "average" person is my boy.

He’s right though.. Every person i know who are gaming absolutely don’t give a shit about 30 or 60 fps.. If it’s playable,they enjoy their game without this fucking internet drama.

 

[Gaiff]

He’s right though.. Every person i know who are gaming absolutely don’t give a shit about 30 or 60 fps.. If it’s playable,they enjoy their game without this fucking internet drama.

And for those people, there is the regular PS5. The Pro is for those who do care about frame rates and image quality. Everyone is happy.