Trimesh
Banned
Apparently Intel's next generation products (Lava Lake) will employ an innovative molten basalt based cooling system.
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Intel Core i9-12900K Alder Lake CPU "Destroys" AMD Ryzen 9 5950X In Single-Core & Mult-Threaded Benchmark Leak
- Thread starter Insane Metal
- Start date
Apparently Intel's next generation products (Lava Lake) will employ an innovative molten basalt based cooling system.
Insane Metal
Member
Epic Sax CEO
Banned
Biggest change in W11 is "Intel Thread Director", as if the old Windows Schedulers weren't bad enough.
Works wonder for Alder Lake, see:
But it fucks with other CPUs, SPECIALLY AMD CPU's, SPECIALLY crippling one of Ryzen's biggest strengths that is the L3. One example:
Read from 898GB/s to 136GB/s (-85%)
Write from 565GB/s to 51GB/s (-91%)
Copy from 701GB/s to 66GB/s (-91%)
Latency from 11.2ns to 32.1ns (-187%)
This happens even on Ryzens with just one CCD, this is totally Microsoft's fault with Intel blessing (it comes in time for both Alder Lake and Ryzen 3D!)
What AMD can do? Ask Intel for the source code "to fix" it?
The solution here will be Intel releasing an update to force W11 to not use this Thread Disruptor with other CPUs.
Works wonder for Alder Lake, see:
But it fucks with other CPUs, SPECIALLY AMD CPU's, SPECIALLY crippling one of Ryzen's biggest strengths that is the L3. One example:
Read from 898GB/s to 136GB/s (-85%)
Write from 565GB/s to 51GB/s (-91%)
Copy from 701GB/s to 66GB/s (-91%)
Latency from 11.2ns to 32.1ns (-187%)
This happens even on Ryzens with just one CCD, this is totally Microsoft's fault with Intel blessing (it comes in time for both Alder Lake and Ryzen 3D!)
What AMD can do? Ask Intel for the source code "to fix" it?
The solution here will be Intel releasing an update to force W11 to not use this Thread Disruptor with other CPUs.
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Chiggs
Gold Member
Windows 11 Gives Alder Lake A Big Boost In Leaked Benchmark But Ryzen Is Still Ahead
Alder Lake stretches its legs in Windows 11 in another leaked benchmark, but gets bested overall by Zen 3.
Time to pump the brakes on the hype train?
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SantaC
Member
The issue has already been fixed and is rolling out
PhoenixTank
Member
Is there an article or MS KB for that? Interested to read but couldn't find anything.
STARSBarry
Gold Member
OK... so here's the thing, with that power draw what are we looking at to cool it? I don't mean from a "oh it's fine just stick a block on it and where done" I'm talking how fast will the fans have to go to move that heat off the CPU? Because all I can imagine unless your using a custom loop is effectively a jet engine at that draw.
More power = more heat, alot more at the more recent gens. Even triple fan 360mm AIO's had to ramp up last gen at the higher frequencies due to that generations draw, what are going to be looking at now?
More power = more heat, alot more at the more recent gens. Even triple fan 360mm AIO's had to ramp up last gen at the higher frequencies due to that generations draw, what are going to be looking at now?
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Insane Metal
Member
I can't wait to know the truth. I think Intel will kick ass with these new CPUs. If they are barely able to beat Ryzen 3 or even be outclassed by them it will be a huuuuge disappointment.Windows 11 Gives Alder Lake A Big Boost In Leaked Benchmark But Ryzen Is Still Ahead
Alder Lake stretches its legs in Windows 11 in another leaked benchmark, but gets bested overall by Zen 3.hothardware.com
Time to pump the brakes on the hype train?
Edit: someone in the comments said the E cores are not used in this test at all, don't know if true. If true AMD is in trouble.
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Papacheeks
Banned
They will be fine.
Pagusas
Elden Member
Just google search AMD Win 11 Fix and you'll find tons of articles with both MS and AMD knowing of the issue and promising a fix in October
GreatnessRD
Member
At this point we'll have to look at LN2 with these power draws and the talk of the next set of GPUs to power up to 600W.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Hyperbole I'm full effect. Good luck to you Intel loyalists.
PhoenixTank
Member
Appreciated and you're right but none of those links I've seen have said it is already fixed and that the solution is rolling out already.
CuNi
Member
As PhoenixTank said, acknowledging the issue and "rolling out a fix" are two vastly different things.
They plan on releasing a fix in October, but that doesn't mean it will come in October. Could be November, could be December, could be any time in 2022 either or never.
So far its only officially acknowledged that it is indeed a bug and the involved parties will look into a way to fix it. Nothing more and nothing less.
SupremeHoodie
Member
Still not upgrading from my 10900k.
lils
Member
2700x here, gonna upgrade to zen4 when it comes out in 2022
personally i would never buy intel unless the difference was overwhelming
ToTTenTranz
Banned
I don't think Alder Lake consuming a lot of power is greedyness.
They don't have a product that can compete in power efficiency, so they're clocking their big cores well past their ideal power/performance curves so they can compete in performance. AMD did exactly that with Vega and Polaris (RX4xx/5xx) against Nvidia's Pascal.
That's not a huge problem when dealing with tower desktops IMO, but it doesn't look like Alder Lake will be able to compete very well against AMD's Cezanne (Zen3 + Vega), and most likely Rembrandt (Zen3 + RDNA2), in the laptop market.
According to Intel, the E-Core consumes 80% less power than Skylake at the same performance level, comparing 4C4T to 2C4T.
So they may be able to compete in power efficiency, just not power efficiency and absolute performance.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Wanting to upgrade my 8700K but we will see.
Im completely down the middle so if Intel is the best, i'm there. If it isn't I'll go with AMD.
Im completely down the middle so if Intel is the best, i'm there. If it isn't I'll go with AMD.
ToTTenTranz
Banned
The LITTLE/e-core is an Atom core. It's fine for light tasks (e.g. office & e-mail, light web browsing, watching youtube, etc.) but once the system loads up a game it'll need to use the big / p-core. That's when the power constraints of a laptop come into play, and where Alder Lake's p-cores will need to use a lot lower clocks than the desktop counterparts.According to Intel, the E-Core consumes 80% less power than Skylake at the same performance level, comparing 4C4T to 2C4T.
So they may be able to compete in power efficiency, just not power efficiency and absolute performance.
Zen 3's APUs (with less L3) seem to use around 3W per core when clocked at 3-3.5GHz, and it seems the Golden Cove p-cores can't reach anywhere near that level of power efficiency.
Well, it's an "Atom" core with 8% better single threaded performance than Skylake (!), that can deliver up to 80% better MT comparing 4C4T w/2C4T. And Skylake-level performance is already adequate for gaming, so I would be curious to see how the versions of Alder Lake with fewer P-Cores do.
ZywyPL
Banned
Intel Core i5-12400 Alder Lake Budget Desktop CPU With 6 Cores Faster Than AMD Ryzen 5 5600X In Leaked Benchmarks
The first benchmarks of Intel's Core i5-12400 CPU which will be positioned in the Alder Lake budget desktop segment have leaked out.
wccftech.com
I'm just hope there's gonna be a K version of the leaked i5 12400 (6+0 configuration), as it'll easily be the best bang for the buck, by a huge margin.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Intel Core i5-12400 Alder Lake Budget Desktop CPU With 6 Cores Faster Than AMD Ryzen 5 5600X In Leaked Benchmarks
The first benchmarks of Intel's Core i5-12400 CPU which will be positioned in the Alder Lake budget desktop segment have leaked out.
I'm just hope there's gonna be a K version of the leaked i5 12400 (6+0 configuration), as it'll easily be the best bang for the buck, by a huge margin.
What do K chips bring to the table these days?
Back in Sandybridge when you went from 3.3GHz to 5.0GHz that was worth the price of admission alone.
But today K chips barely boost over the stock chips and even with added power/overclock potential you gain near negligible gains.
I highly doubt there will be a xx400K.
We havent had a K 400 chips before and havent needed 400Ks cuz they do nearly everything the 5/600K chips can do at a bargain price.
The most important aspect of "overclocking" for gaming today is basically being able to adjust RAM timings/frequency to decrease RAM latency and being able to increase CPU power limits so the CPU can boost longer/indefinitely. As long as you can do that the difference between running your CPU at 4.5 or 5GHz is pretty trivial.
ZywyPL
Banned
Yeah, in high-end models you're able to add maybe 100-200MHz extra compared to stock and that's it, but in lower tier models like the leaked one with just 4GHz clock that extra 1GHz would make a nice difference. There's gonna be a 12600K as per the leaks, but that's 6+4 configuration, and I'm not really interested in those Atom cores at all, I'd prefer an 8+0 i7. But who knows, maybe there will be enough faulty leftovers from the production that Intel will offer such CPU with disabled Atom cores later on.
ZywyPL
Banned
Intel Core i9-12900K overclocked to 5.2 GHz on all Performance cores reportedly consumes 330W of power - VideoCardz.com
Overclocked Intel Core i9-12900K outperforms Ryzen 9 5950X in CPUZ multi-thread test Bilibili content creator 热心市民描边怪 published the results of the upcoming Alder Lake Core i9 processor with all ‘big’ cores overclocked to 5.2 GHz. According to the screenshot from the CPU-Z benchmark, the Core...
videocardz.com
Reportedly 330W with OC, so right in time for winter season.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Intel Core i9-12900K overclocked to 5.2 GHz on all Performance cores reportedly consumes 330W of power - VideoCardz.com
Overclocked Intel Core i9-12900K outperforms Ryzen 9 5950X in CPUZ multi-thread test Bilibili content creator 热心市民描边怪 published the results of the upcoming Alder Lake Core i9 processor with all ‘big’ cores overclocked to 5.2 GHz. According to the screenshot from the CPU-Z benchmark, the Core...
Reportedly 330W with OC, so right in time for winter season.
Higher than the 10900K when only overclocking the big cores?
Noctua stock about to sky rocket once everyone realizes they are the bare minimum to keep Alderlake within reason.
Hope NZXT and Arctic have new baseplates ready for their AIOs.
If Intel can price these things correct and NOT say the motherboard is only useful for one generation.
Ill be back in team Intel come November.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
You want to get a 12900K....it fights with the 5950 and 5900 and the price will show that.
The competish for the 5800X is i7s.
Intel generally eats more power than AMD at full tilt.
But for gaming they will be pretty close to each other.
The CPU is never truly at full tilt while gaming. (or atleast for now there arent really games that truly stress a CPU like AIDA, Prime or other "stress" tests which benchmarkers use to get absolute peaks.
My advice wait for the 12600 or better yet the 12400, that still leaves you with an upgrade path if that CPU is somehow a bottleneck for you.
On/Of Topic
The 12400 looks like its gonna be king of the hill again (400) series for gamers.
Overclocking is dead, memory gains are useless.
Long live budget Intel CPUs:
^The gen on gen gains Intel seem to have made are actually pretty insane.
Heres to hoping the reviews are good.....the leaked prices already have me scratching my head.
Intel you have this shit in the bag.....just price your chips at Ryzen level or a few dollars above...dont entire tier increase the price, else ill be sticking to the 10th gen till they are legit bottlenecks.....in 2030.
Yeah I'm definitely going to go intel 12 gen as the chip will come out in the next month. As well as a motherboard that supports PCIE 5.0 but I can't seem to find any news of these 5.0 motherboards coming out soon but thats my ideal purchase so my PC is future proof in terms of CPU and Motherboard. In 5 years time hopefully I'd just need a GPU and RAM upgrade.
lils
Member
wait for independent benchmarks before making a decision. current info is based on "leaks", which i suspect intel has done deliberately to hype up their product.
intel has a horrible reputation for manipulating benches to make them look good:
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Yeah I'm in no rush making my build around after black Friday so plenty of time for reviews and previews
Epic Sax CEO
Banned
The other day the CEO had said that AMD was already done, that Intel was back.
But yesterday on the finalcial report he said that Intel expects to achieve "performance per watt parity in 2024 and leadership in 2025".
Maybe he was talking about Apple?
But yesterday on the finalcial report he said that Intel expects to achieve "performance per watt parity in 2024 and leadership in 2025".
Maybe he was talking about Apple?
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
Add a beefy GPU and you don't need a fan heater when playing games.
winjer
Gold Member
Rikkori
Member
Chiggs
Gold Member
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/22947149/intelcorei912900k.jpg)
Intel’s unreleased Core i9-12900K processor goes on sale early
Intel’s next flagship CPU is already on sale.
www.theverge.com
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Chiggs
Gold Member
On/Of Topic
The 12400 looks like its gonna be king of the hill again (400) series for gamers.
Overclocking is dead, memory gains are useless.
Long live budget Intel CPUs:
^The gen on gen gains Intel seem to have made are actually pretty insane.
Heres to hoping the reviews are good.....the leaked prices already have me scratching my head.
Intel you have this shit in the bag.....just price your chips at Ryzen level or a few dollars above...dont entire tier increase the price, else ill be sticking to the 10th gen till they are legit bottlenecks.....in 2030.
That's gonna get creamed by the v-cache 5000 series in early 2022.
DeaDPo0L84
Member
That packaging is sexy as hell. Just told my wife what I want for Christmas.Intel’s unreleased Core i9-12900K processor goes on sale early
Intel’s next flagship CPU is already on sale.
Kenpachii
Member
You want to get a 12900K....it fights with the 5950 and 5900 and the price will show that.
The competish for the 5800X is i7s.
Intel generally eats more power than AMD at full tilt.
But for gaming they will be pretty close to each other.
The CPU is never truly at full tilt while gaming. (or atleast for now there arent really games that truly stress a CPU like AIDA, Prime or other "stress" tests which benchmarkers use to get absolute peaks.
My advice wait for the 12600 or better yet the 12400, that still leaves you with an upgrade path if that CPU is somehow a bottleneck for you.
On/Of Topic
The 12400 looks like its gonna be king of the hill again (400) series for gamers.
Overclocking is dead, memory gains are useless.
Long live budget Intel CPUs:
^The gen on gen gains Intel seem to have made are actually pretty insane.
Heres to hoping the reviews are good.....the leaked prices already have me scratching my head.
Intel you have this shit in the bag.....just price your chips at Ryzen level or a few dollars above...dont entire tier increase the price, else ill be sticking to the 10th gen till they are legit bottlenecks.....in 2030.
Thats a mighty high jump forwards 768. that's about 50% faster then 9900k single core performance. This is getting tempting specially for RT solutions.
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DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
Thanks, this is the kind of comparison I’m really interested in. Most sites just measure the “all cores full load” peak power consumption + idle consumption but that doesn’t give you a realistic idea of the power/heat you will be dealing with while gaming.You want to get a 12900K....it fights with the 5950 and 5900 and the price will show that.
The competish for the 5800X is i7s.
Intel generally eats more power than AMD at full tilt.
But for gaming they will be pretty close to each other.
The CPU is never truly at full tilt while gaming. (or atleast for now there arent really games that truly stress a CPU like AIDA, Prime or other "stress" tests which benchmarkers use to get absolute peaks.
I’m especially interested in what this will look like with efficiency cores in the mix. Wondering if we might even see gaming scenarios where Alder Lake average wattage is lower than Zen 3 even as peak wattage is higher.
Kenpachii
Member
Most of the cores aren't used, and only 50% used most of the time on your average gaming solution. so that's the most relevant data. However overclockers will most likely want to run those 8 big cores at top speed for gaming solutions.
I would not be shocked that people will disable the smaller cores just to up the bigger cores performance.
So to see the actual gaming performance, we need to see it oced with those small cores disabled.
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mitchman
Gold Member
Looks like Alder Lake is now going to be power efficient
By some definition of "power efficient". 210W isn't exactly efficient compared to the competition.
Epic Sax CEO
Banned
Looks like Alder Lake is now going to be power efficient
But today is was confirmed, Intel made the PL1 state obsolete and equaled it to the PL2 at 210W.
Intel is not trusting their own "efficiency improvement" claims, they're giving it as much power as the boards can to get on top.