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[scalman]

destroys in what price ? plz just tell price as well . i see now laptops with rtx gpus. same price as only rtx gpus card.. i mean how crazy world can get ?

 

[Epic Sax CEO]

Oh Intel...
Other detail, while they tested their own CPUs with PL1=PL2=241W they configured the 5950X to PL1=105W disabling PBO. To be "fair", because PBO is "overclocking" but PL2=241W on air (up to 4096W!!!! on water) is the new default.

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

2x 12900k & 2x Asus Z690 Maximus Hero secured. Now to look for which DDR5 to buy.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

When can we expect real benchmarks? Tomorrow?

 

[SyberWolf]

i thought i would bench to compare.
this is with the whole overclocking/XFR set to auto/disabled (scores are higher when i enable it).
so it is not near max performance that this chip is capable of.
and i am running windows 11
single thread 666
multi thread 12149

AMD Ryzen 9 5950X @ 4149.03 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

[xf4pi8] Validated Dump by Anonymous (2021-10-27 21:41:16) - MB: Gigabyte X570 AORUS MASTER - RAM: 32768 MB

valid.x86.fr

 

[Kenpachii]

overclocking scores are useless because every chip clocks differently.

 

[Draugoth]

Seems like the reviews wont even be using the best DDR5 kits available. So more room for improvement.
The gaming benchmarks slide has some interesting info. 12900K on par with 5950x in some games, better than some. However, this was done on Windows 11 (prior to the AMD fixes for L3) and using DDR5.

Third Pary Benchmarks on November 4

 

[PhoenixTank]

When can we expect real benchmarks? Tomorrow?

Unless a reviewer gets their hands on the chips that shipped early, Nov 4th is the day NDA lifts AFAICT.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Oh shit, lol I missed that.

So you know Steve at Gamers Nexus knows this and will test, same with Hardware unboxed.

Anyone notice INTEL BOARDS are showing DDR4 and DDR5 respectively? So you can use either or? Thats a first.

I have an old Intel P35 motherboard that can use both DDR2 and DDR3. IIRC some of AMD’s AM2/AM3 CPUs had integrated memory controllers that could support multiple memory types as well. Not uncommon at all when a new memory standard comes out.

 

[Marlenus]

Seems like the reviews wont even be using the best DDR5 kits available. So more room for improvement.
The gaming benchmarks slide has some interesting info. 12900K on par with 5950x in some games, better than some. However, this was done on Windows 11 (prior to the AMD fixes for L3) and using DDR5.

Third Pary Benchmarks on November 4

The changes to the power spec make me wonder what cooling they were using on the 12900K. I can see places that test with an AIO getting far better results than those that use tower coolers.

Expect various reviews to be all over the place depending on test specifications.

 

[winjer]

Seems like the reviews wont even be using the best DDR5 kits available. So more room for improvement.
The gaming benchmarks slide has some interesting info. 12900K on par with 5950x in some games, better than some. However, this was done on Windows 11 (prior to the AMD fixes for L3) and using DDR5.

Third Pary Benchmarks on November 4

Indeed.
Zen can lose quite a bit of performance without these patches.
With the Zen patches applied, Zen3 might be very close to Alder Lake, in games.

 

[Chiggs]

The gaming benchmarks slide has some interesting info. 12900K on par with 5950x in some games, better than some. However, this was done on Windows 11 (prior to the AMD fixes for L3) and using DDR5.)

Fucking lol, the performance gains vs Ryzen 5000 have been tested in Windows 11 pre-patch in intels press release.

Welp, so much for that excitement.

 

[Kenpachii]

Can AMD already showcase there CPU's. Go AMD do it.

 

[Celcius]

I keep going back and forth between upgrading from my 10700K now vs waiting for the second iteration of the new architecture. I'm looking forward to the benches. I think I'd definitely have to go with an AIO if I do upgrade though because my NH-D14 can barely handle my current cpu overclocked and I know these new cpu's will be furnaces.

 

[Type_Raver]

What appeals to me about Zen 3 cpu's is the power draw efficiencies relative to its performance.
It will be interesting to see how Alderlakes go in this area especially with its new process.

 

[Papacheeks]

Seems like the reviews wont even be using the best DDR5 kits available. So more room for improvement.
The gaming benchmarks slide has some interesting info. 12900K on par with 5950x in some games, better than some. However, this was done on Windows 11 (prior to the AMD fixes for L3) and using DDR5.

Third Pary Benchmarks on November 4

there’s hardly any kits even up for preorder on Newegg.

 

[GreatnessRD]

Can AMD already showcase there CPU's. Go AMD do it.

Probably won't learn about Zen 3D Cache chips until CES along with Zen4 I'd say. So January at the earliest I'd say. If we got another droplet of information this year I'd be very, very surprised. I can't wait till the 4th though, I hope Alder Lake is really good to push this competition even more. Loving the shit talk from Gelsinger telling Dr. Su that the run is over for AMD. That's the type smoke I'm trying to see.

 

[Excess]

It was probably already mentioned in this thread, but curious to know if these are internally fabbed or outsourced?

 

[DaleinCalgary]

I hope its good!

On another note got my baby today and it' freaking awesome!

 

[Leonidas]

It was probably already mentioned in this thread, but curious to know if these are internally fabbed or outsourced?

Internally on the Intel 7 process.

 

[rnlval]

Probably won't learn about Zen 3D Cache chips until CES along with Zen4 I'd say. So January at the earliest I'd say. If we got another droplet of information this year I'd be very, very surprised. I can't wait till the 4th though, I hope Alder Lake is really good to push this competition even more. Loving the shit talk from Gelsinger telling Dr. Su that the run is over for AMD. That's the type smoke I'm trying to see.

AMD to introduce Instinct MI250 HPC GPUs and Milan-X CPUs on November 8th, 2021. Milan-X CPUs have the extra stacked cache.

 

[GreatnessRD]

AMD to introduce Instinct MI250 HPC GPUs and Milan-X CPUs on November 8th, 2021. Milan-X CPUs have the extra stacked cache.

I'm waiting on the mainstream CPUs, the Zen3+ chips. The 5900x's tier

 

[drotahorror]

Really want to get alder lake but I'm so strapped for cash right now. I think Raptor Lake is next and that sounds cooler anyway.

 

[Thebonehead]

I have a 38" ultrawide monitor (3840x1600), currently using a rtx 3090, I'm assuming I should be golden if I grab a 12900k?

I feel like my current i79700k holds me back ever so slightly in some regards.

Somewhat similar to you.

Running Alienware 38 ultra wide with a 3080 and 8700k.

I've taken the plunge and pre ordered the
i9 12900K from scan here in the UK

 

[mitchman]

isn't the 11900k performing worse then 10900k? in age of empire 4 the 10900k was beating the 5950x already.

Anyway if you want to see valid benchmarks of how the chip performs, even those tech youtubers are not going to feed you good results. they will be all send golden samples.

I'm happy with my 5950x for the time being, I feel no urge to go back to Intel with all their BS they're pulling these days.

 

[Trimesh]

Welp, so much for that excitement.

Honestly, at this point this is precisely the sort of shit I have come to expect from Intel. Even when their products are good, they seem to have lying about things as an ingrained part of their corporate DNA. As I said earlier (possibly in this thread) you can't tell for sure until the tests can be carried out by regular users with retail CPUs and motherboards. It's honestly a little ironic - my last 3 systems have all used Intel CPUs and nVidia GPUs - but they are both companies that I've learnt to be extremely skeptical of the PR from.

 

[spyshagg]

I think we can make an intelligent guess that the new 5800X isnt going to be cheaper than the old 5800X.
Even when they refreshed the XTs they dropped the prices of the old chips and launch the XTs at "msrp".

AMD doesnt have a sub 300 dollar chip and "if" the benchs are even remotely accurate the 12600KF is gonna be a killer deal.

Market conditions (status of competing products from competing brands) is what determines the pricing. The pricing from previous products is not a law. If AMD have to drop 100$ on each CPU in order to compete, they will.

Intel 8 core CPU's were 1000$ and they had to drastically cut the prices when AMD released Ryzen.

 

[Kenpachii]

like why not just release the 12700k with 8 big cores and no small cores. the same goes for 12600k why not 8 big cores and no small cores. They really try to sell that small / big core design on people.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

like why not just release the 12700k with 8 big cores and no small cores. the same goes for 12600k why not 8 big cores and no small cores. They really try to sell that small / big core design on people.

I think the idea is that the small cores will take care of small background tasks (Windows...) so that the big cores can go all-in and push games and nothing else. At least in theory it sounds good imo.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Welcome back competition.

Even as a Ryzen gen 1 and now Ryzen 5600x owner, i was happy for AMD to compete again, but everyone dancing prematurely on Intel's "grave" were idiots. AMD basically poked the sleeping dragon, and that's a good thing, for everyone. I have absolutely no intention to upgrade since i'm super happy with my build, but i can't wait to see the results on Nov 4th.

It's mind blowing from an engineering point of view just how much they stretched that 14nm node and kept their head above water all that time. Their architecture engineers are something else.

 

[Dr.D00p]

Dammit, these new cores intrigue me!

I really want to have a play with them, the granular control over each core is so tempting...

 

[Kenpachii]

I think the idea is that the small cores will take care of small background tasks (Windows...) so that the big cores can go all-in and push games and nothing else. At least in theory it sounds good imo.

Great idea until it sacrifices main game performance with the 12600 by delivering less big cores. The 12600 design makes no sense because of that.

on top of it they could have released a cheaper 12700k with no small cores for people that simple want game performance and nothing else. Just weird choices all around.

However i do think small/big core design is going to be the future, we need faster gaming cores. for os stuff like watching stream/movies on the a second screen, having some smaller cores would be great. no need ot have full blown cpu cores for those.

 

[Dr.D00p]

Great idea until it sacrifices main game performance with the 12600 by delivering less big cores. The 12600 design makes no sense because of that.

on top of it they could have released a cheaper 12700k with no small cores for people that simple want game performance and nothing else. Just weird choices all around.

However i do think small/big core design is going to be the future, we need faster gaming cores. for os stuff like watching stream/movies on the a second screen, having some smaller cores would be great. no need ot have full blown cpu cores for those.

I think you maybe underestimating just how fast these 'e' cores are.

I'm sure some people have thoughts of Xbox Jaguar CPU levels of performance when in actuality, they're not far off Skylake performance.

 

[Celcius]

Now I’m wondering if we’ll have to overclock the p cores and e cores separately, meaning that overclocking will take twice a larger long…

 

[Dr.D00p]

Now I’m wondering if we’ll have to overclock the p cores and e cores separately, meaning that overclocking will take twice a larger long…

They can be overclocked all as one or individually and with the P cores, you can turn Hyper Threading on or off on an individual core basis, which is good because some cores run hotter than others and can limit overclocking speeds.

 

[Kenpachii]

I think you maybe underestimating just how fast these 'e' cores are.

I'm sure some people have thoughts of Xbox Jaguar CPU levels of performance when in actuality, they're not far off Skylake performance.

I know they are fast, but the problem is they are slower. Which doesn't make sense for gaming. 8 cores will be used and are already used in a ton of games. limiting big cores for small ones isn't a good solution in my view but intel will find it necessary because those youtube benchers and most outlets do absolute dog shit effort in benching those chips an will draw conclusions that 8 big cores are probably worse then 6+4 because they only test single core performance and all core performance.

In my view for gaming this would have been better.

12500k 6 big cores
12600k 8 big cores
12700k 8 big cores, 4 small cores
12900k 8 big cores, 8 small cores.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

I know they are fast, but the problem is they are slower. Which doesn't make sense for gaming. 8 cores will be used and are already used in a ton of games. limiting big cores for small ones isn't a good solution in my view but intel will find it necessary because those youtube benchers and most outlets do absolute dog shit effort in benching those chips an will draw conclusions that 8 big cores are probably worse then 6+4 because they only test single core performance and all core performance.

In my view for gaming this would have been better.

12500k 6 big cores
12600k 8 big cores
12700k 8 big cores, 4 small cores
12900k 8 big cores, 8 small cores.

Yes, but Intel wants to make money. If you want 8 big cores, you need to shell out 400 bucks.

 

[Kenpachii]

Yes, but Intel wants to make money. If you want 8 big cores, you need to shell out 400 bucks.

they could have holded the same pricing, i am just talking about the design of the cpu.

 

[Black_Stride]

Now I’m wondering if we’ll have to overclock the p cores and e cores separately, meaning that overclocking will take twice a larger long…

Hahahah overclocking Intel chips in 2021.
Install the chip, get a good cooler and let that shit rip.

P.S Intel has had granular overclocking since forever.
Do you always all core overclock....doesnt you system never even get particularly much faster?

 

[PhoenixTank]

like why not just release the 12700k with 8 big cores and no small cores. the same goes for 12600k why not 8 big cores and no small cores. They really try to sell that small / big core design on people.

Since they're still monolithic my best guess without more info is that they're aiming to push out one or maybe two distinct pieces of silicon and bin those for defects, clocks & efficiency across laptop & desktop space into different SKUs. A bit like Nvidia with GA104 spread across the 3060 Ti, 3070 & 3070Ti but much more of a difference and more flexible.

 

[Kenpachii]

Since they're still monolithic my best guess without more info is that they're aiming to push out one or maybe two distinct pieces of silicon and bin those for defects, clocks & efficiency across laptop & desktop space into different SKUs. A bit like Nvidia with GA104 spread across the 3060 Ti, 3070 & 3070Ti but much more of a difference and more flexible.

Ah that could make sense.

 

[Kenpachii]

6ghz barrier in reach.

 

[Insane Metal]

 

[CuNi]

Welp, so much for that excitement.

Just read a article that someone mentioned earlier that not only was it on W11 prior to the patch, on top ryzen P1 was set to 105W while Intels was set to 245W...imagine, Intel draws 2.3x as much power on a unpatched build and still only wins by 10%... That's a big oof right there. And that against a 1 year old CPU... They will get leapfrogged with the next ZEN CPU again.

 

[Chiggs]

Just read a article that someone mentioned earlier that not only was it on W11 prior to the patch, on top ryzen P1 was set to 105W while Intels was set to 245W...imagine, Intel draws 2.3x as much power on a unpatched build and still only wins by 10%... That's a big oof right there. And that against a 1 year old CPU... They will get leapfrogged with the next ZEN CPU again.

And not even the next-gen Zen in June 2022, either. The V-cache one in late Jan/Feb 2022 should deliver a beatdown.

I just watched that Linus video and he said take all the numbers you're seeing right now "with a literal pillar of salt." Pretty much.

 

[Gen.Grievous]

EU prices actually decent. K variants go for 299, 449 and 699. From what I've seen from MSI and ASUS is that motherboards are disgustingly expensive though. A bare bones Z690 board starts at 200 euro.

 

[Thebonehead]

Pain of early adoption.

Can't source DDR5 anywhere in the UK - All out of stock
My Kraken X62 needs a stand-off plate which won't be released until mid-late November

 

[MightySquirrel]

Pain of early adoption.

Can't source DDR5 anywhere in the UK - All out of stock
My Kraken X62 needs a stand-off plate which won't be released until mid-late November

I wanna see 12 series DDR4 vs 5 memory benchmarks. Everyone is only rambling about high latency. What about 5 being quad channel on mainstream boards? [2 per module]

Crucial had 64 gigs for 350 yest., now only 16 GB [2x8] kit left. https://uk.crucial.com/catalog/memory/ddr5

 

[Black_Stride]

Pain of early adoption.

Can't source DDR5 anywhere in the UK - All out of stock
My Kraken X62 needs a stand-off plate which won't be released until mid-late November

Early adoption is hard for sure.
Also ight want to double check that the adapter plate actually has the correct pressure else you are likely gonna have a hot chip running very very hot.
Alderlake IHS is shorter than previous.

 

[Thebonehead]

I wanna see 12 series DDR4 vs 5 memory benchmarks. Everyone is only rambling about high latency. What about 5 being quad channel on mainstream boards? [2 per module]

Crucial had 64 gigs for 350 yest., now only 16 GB [2x8] kit left. https://uk.crucial.com/catalog/memory/ddr5

I should have time for the benches to come out, due to having to wait for the adapter plate for my kraken.

Interested in seeing how the single and dual ranking performs as well as seeing those latency figures.