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[KiraFA37]

So there were no other retailers worldwide stocking the AMD chips?

You do realize MediaMarkt/Saturn is one, if not the, largest electronics shops in Germany and they have a big presence in neighbouring countries? Just by making deals with that shop alone they are targeting a large consumer base, denying them choice or hearing about the AMD brand. Besides not everybody is as well informed as we GAFfers are, most common folk just go the shop and ask for a PC.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

You do realize MediaMarkt/Saturn is one, if not the, largest electronics shops in Germany and they have a big presence in neighbouring countries? Just by making deals with that shop alone they are targeting a large consumer base, denying them choice or hearing about the AMD brand. Besides not everybody is as well informed as we GAFfers are, most common folk just go the shop and ask for a PC.

And that's just retail. It worse than that. Intel were paying off OEMs to not carry AMD. The OEM who are the ones to the buy the chips were getting paid to only carry the chips. Seriously?

Look at this older article from CNN Money:

http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/27/news/companies/dell_settlement_intel.fortune/

In its complaint, the SEC alleges that, from May 2001 through January 2006, Dell (DELL, Fortune 500) created the false impression that it had met or exceeded analysts' consensus earnings-per-share expectations in 20 straight quarters. In reality, says the SEC, Dell wouldn't have met its numbers once during that period without secret payments from Intel that were made in exchange for Dell's agreement not to use any AMD chips.

Thus, the SEC has now become the sixth regulatory body worldwide -- and the third in the United States -- to conclude that Intel made improper payments throughout much of the last decade to persuade computer makers to bar or sharply limit their use of AMD chips. Though these payments allegedly began in 2001, under Intel's now retired CEO Craig Barrett, the practice allegedly continued and expanded under Intel's current CEO, Paul Otellini, according to the SEC.

By the end of that fiscal quarter (July 29), Intel did in fact bump up its lump-sum MCP payment from $81 million to $119 million. When added to Intel's percentage-based MCP payments, the total MCP came to $432 million for the quarter, or 37% of Dell's reported operating income.

Geez. Calling them "rebates" certainly had less of a negative denotation.

Got a better product out with nicer prices to compete, AMD? Intel is like "Not on my dime!"

 

[Rentahamster]

C'mon AMD, light the fire under Intel's ass again.

Or alternatively, make some kickass chips so I can finally buy something of yours that isn't a GPU.

 

[Nikodemos]

The EC should award the fine money to AMD. Lord Cthulhu knows they need it.

 

[Joni]

Thinking about it, they should really start doubling the fines for refusal of payment.

That might be true, but that's doesn't seen like legitimate grounds to fine a company so much money to me. Prices are one of the major ways in which companies compete with each other. If you take the premise of my argument as sound - and given you said 'short term sure it helps' I assume you do - then the logical conclusion is that it's the 'unhelped' consumers, the ones getting a worse deal, who are keeping the competition afloat. If you want to ensure competition remains I'd be a much bigger fan of giving AMD a tax cut - allowing them to lower prices, incentivise customers to buy their products and thus making exclusivity deals with Intel and retailers a bad deal. As it stands, this fine basically hinders Intel's ability to compete on price. My solution makes AMD more accessible, this makes Intel less so. I know which I'd prefer!

The fine is meant to punish Intel for its transgressions against the EU consumer, not to punish it for what it did wrong to AMD. If AMD wants money, they'll have to sue too. The EU is giving the money back to the EU citizen although in an indirect way by subsidizing weaker areas of the union to make the whole economically stronger for everybody.

So there were no other retailers worldwide stocking the AMD chips?

Imagine Pepsi paying WalMart not to stock Coca-Cola and paying everyone else money for buying way more Pepsi than Coca-Cola. You could find it, but not in a consumer friendly manner. You're saying companies can fraud all they want, consumers should be able to ignore that and take it.

That being said, other companies do similar things all the time. Try suing everyone all the time.

They're trying.

 

[iamblades]

Terrible decision, intel is making better hardware plain and simple. If amd was making cpu's nearly as good as intel then this would be legitimate because its what consumers want. They can give rebates because of consumer demand. Make your cups better and people will buy them too amd

They don't make CPUs nearly as good as Intel because they were hamstrung in R&D spending by this tactic back when they WERE making better CPUs than Intel.

Intel dug into their war chest to pay off OEMs and kept spending more than any other company on the planet can afford to spend in developing fab technology.

AMD meanwhile has had to sell off all it's fabs just to stay afloat during a period where consumers often couldn't get an AMD processor even if they wanted one, and now they are reliant on 3rd party fabs that are years behind intel in technology.

This was quite possibly the most brilliantly devious anticompetitive move ever, and 1.4 billion is not even close to enough of a fine to undo the damage they caused to the marketplace.

If you went back and told Intels leadership that they could completely cripple their only competition, gain an insurmountable lead in fabrication technology, and make an extra profit margin by selling your product at a premium even though it is inferior for only $1.4 billion, they would say yes every single time.

If you want a real punishment that would be effective, I would suggest patent confiscation. Everything that intel patented during the time they were engaging in this behavior was ill-gotten gains, and so should be put into the public domain immediately

 

[thehypocrite]

These threads are always an embarrassment to read.

This. I understand not everyone knows everything, but be so quick to spout their ignorance that they can't read the OP. No words.

 

[Nikodemos]

Thinking about it, they should really start doubling the fines for refusal of payment.

Yup. Use some version of "contempt of the Court" as an aggravating circumstance to cumulatively increase penalties.

If you want a real punishment that would be effective, I would suggest patent confiscation. Everything that intel patented during the time they were engaging in this behavior was ill-gotten gains, and so should be put into the public domain immediately.

That Core-specific cache architecture could come in real handy to a lot of companies...

AMD meanwhile has had to sell off all it's fabs just to stay afloat during a period where consumers often couldn't get an AMD processor even if they wanted one, and now they are reliant on 3rd party fabs that are years behind intel in technology.

Well, not entirely. There was also Hector fucking Ruiz...

 

[SneakyStephan]

Good guy EU

The sad thing is that the fine is not even a drop of water on a hot plate compared to the damage that was done to AMD and how much Intel have gained from this. (going from behind behind amd to effectively killing off amd's prospects of being competitive again in the coming decade, if they are even in the desktop space by then)

The fact that these weasels have the balls to challenge the earlier decision, knowing full well (since the very start) that they'd get off easy for their crime, makes my blood boil

The EC should award the fine money to AMD. Lord Cthulhu knows they need it.

That billion euros wouldn't even begin to dig them out of the hole they are in.
They'd need a lot more money and a LOT more R&D time to catch up.

For some perspective: a single 20nm fab costs between 2-10 billion to set up, intel have their own plants, amd do not.
1.4billion dollars wouldn't even register

A far better idea as posted earlier in the thread would be to force intel to share their patents and R&D (both for fabs and architecture) with amd.

In a better world everyone in charge at intel would be kicked the fuck out , anyone responsible for this trainwreck would be in jail and some benign government body would take over and manage it like a utility. (I can hear the 'mericuns gasping and shreeking 'commies!' )

 

[ReAxion]

AMD meanwhile has had to sell off all it's fabs just to stay afloat during a period where consumers often couldn't get an AMD processor even if they wanted one, and now they are reliant on 3rd party fabs that are years behind intel in technology.

Don't they just use GlobalFoundries?

 

[Famassu]

That might be true, but that's doesn't seen like legitimate grounds to fine a company so much money to me. Prices are one of the major ways in which companies compete with each other. If you take the premise of my argument as sound - and given you said 'short term sure it helps' I assume you do - then the logical conclusion is that it's the 'unhelped' consumers, the ones getting a worse deal, who are keeping the competition afloat. If you want to ensure competition remains I'd be a much bigger fan of giving AMD a tax cut - allowing them to lower prices, incentivise customers to buy their products and thus making exclusivity deals with Intel and retailers a bad deal. As it stands, this fine basically hinders Intel's ability to compete on price. My solution makes AMD more accessible, this makes Intel less so. I know which I'd prefer!

I'm simply appalled by your horrible attitude. How can one be so ignorant to support such sleazy business practices that not only harm competition but consumers as well (consumers the most, in the end). I guess you are rich enough to be happy to pay inflated prices, but the rest of us shouldn't be forced to. Monopoly is horrible, I can't understand how someone doesn't understand this.

 

[iamblades]

Don't they just use GlobalFoundries?

They use TSMC as well.

 

[Oemenia]

Some of the replies in this, like seriously.

 

[Night Hunter]

Man, this thread.

But on topic, should have been more. Should have been what they made with their shitty business tactics (which should have gone to AMD) and I'm not only talking about the extra profits at the time they did it but also what they gained after by having the better product down the line, which they probably only had because they fucked over their competition. Plus a hefty fine on top of that (for making the EU sue their asses). This way they will just laugh about it because they probably still made a shitload of money.

Because let's be honest, this would be justice, what we actually have is a slap on the wrist.

 

[20cent]

So there were no other retailers worldwide stocking the AMD chips?

Since Saturn is the main overall hardware/tech/computer seller in Germany, germans who want a computer without being nerds should just go on internet to learn about intel competitor existence and go somewhere else in the world to get an AMD-based PC.

EU, boooooooooooooh

 

[Dead Man]

Come on guys, you can't pay companies not to stock your rivals product, that's just bullshit in any reasonable system.

 

[m_shortpants]

Good day for my AMD stock

 

[Radec]

Good day for my AMD stock

Why is that?

AMD won't be getting this $$

 

[Sundown]

We really have to get out of the EU.

Yeah, how can they levy punishments against these poor multibillion dollar corporations for their illegal business practices?

 

[m_shortpants]

Why is that?

AMD won't be getting this $$

Doesn't really matter. It's still good for AMD.

 

[Loofy]

The performance perception is so apparent, in the age that the custom built pcs is all people are buying and pre made pcs are in a downfall, you can see for yourself. I dont think its malpractice for intel to provide rebates because they get performance and price as well now out of their products unlike before

This isnt recent. Intel is getting sued for what they did during the Athlon vs. Pentium days(2002 onward)

 

[Neo C.]

This thread is embarrassing to read, but the cheerleading for big nasty corporations doesn't surprised me anymore.
And I say this as an Intel stock holder.