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International Cycling Union (UCI) strips Lance Armstrong of all titles

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K

kottila

Member
awm8604 said:
I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but the evidence seems overwhelming at this point.

I'm really curious though how he never failed a single test...
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The same way that everyone else (mostly) didn't fail the tests. You had to be stupid or very unlucky to be caught
 
A

awm8604

Banned
kottila said:
The same way that everyone else (mostly) didn't fail the tests. You had to be stupid or very unlucky to be caught
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So, is it that they weren't testing for most of the drugs these guys (including Armstrong) were using? I don't know a lot about these drug tests but I would think after the first 2-3 titles they'd be testing him for everything they possibly could.
 
P

Psychotext

Member
awm8604 said:
I'm really curious though how he never failed a single test...
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Have you read absolutely nothing on the subject? You basically have to have been an idiot to fail a test because they knew exactly how long they were going to be at risk of failing tests for... down to the hour. That's how good their procedures (and their drugs) were.

Ignoring the fact that they had inside info on when testers would be visiting for out of competition testing so they could just hide or run.
 
I

industrian

will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Cromat said:
My (very controversial) opinion is that they should just make doping of all kinds legal. There is nothing "natural" about how pro athletes train today. Their achievements have as much to do with the tonnes of training and scientific knowledge that went into preparing them as they do to any natural talent.

Sure, it will make sports into a competition in chemistry, but it's already like that, we're just not realizing it. Look at how many athletic records have been smashed over the last decade - this is all science and technology in action. Having these doping bans only creates situations such as this one, where an athlete is respected only to be later labeled a "cheater".

Just have everyone use whatever they want, and let the best doper win. In motorsports, no one would accuse Ferrari of cheating if they made a better car than other companies. Why not the same with athletes?
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On one hand you have the scenario where after every Olympics the anti-doping authorities will basically ask dominant and/or record-breaking teams "What were you using? It isn't illegal?" and then they will make it illegal for the next set of games in order to ensure a level field of play.

Then on the other hand you have to look at the drugs that can fuck up someone's body and make sure they're not being used for rather obvious reasons.

And the motorsports analogy doesn't really work. If Ferrari made a car that drove itself perfectly 100% of the time then you'd have a point.
 
C

ced

Member
Kabouter said:
I'm inclined to believe the insurance company who once refused to pay him fees for having won the Tour de France, will seek to reclaim those payments, which are in the eight figures. After all, the payments were based on him being awarded the title in those Tour de Frances. Armstrong now has none. I would imagine similar situations will occur elsewhere as well.
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Just imagine the suits for misrepresenting sponsors...
 
C

Cromat

Member
industrian said:
On one hand you have the scenario where after every Olympics the anti-doping authorities will basically ask dominant and/or record-breaking teams "What were you using? It isn't illegal?" and then they will make it illegal for the next set of games in order to ensure a level field of play.

Then on the other hand you have to look at the drugs that can fuck up someone's body and make sure they're not being used for rather obvious reasons.

And the motorsports analogy doesn't really work. If Ferrari made a car that drove itself perfectly 100% of the time then you'd have a point.
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Do you think the way pro athletes live is actually healthy?
There is nothing natural or healthy about squeezing every last second of performance from your body. They go through ridiculously engineered diets and training regimes, they put enormous amount of stress on their bodies and they injure themselves frequently. If someone wants to use potentially harmful substances to improve his athletic performance, he is free to do that.
 
I

industrian

will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Cromat said:
Do you think the way pro athletes live is actually healthy?
There is nothing natural or healthy about squeezing every last second of performance from your body. They go through ridiculously engineered diets and training regimes, they put enormous amount of stress on their bodies and they injure themselves frequently. If someone wants to use potentially harmful substances to improve his athletic performance, he is free to do that.
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I've trained with professional kickboxers and MMA fighters and know what they put themselves through. And before I got a pulmonary embolism earlier this year I was training full-time myself.

Are you really comparing eating a strict diet and running yourself ragged in training with shooting up shitloads of testosterone, growth hormones and abusing diuretics & stimulants? Don't you see the vastly differentiating difference in dangers there?
 
J

Jokergrin

Member
GhvOM.png
 
S

SnakeswithLasers

Member
kottila said:
The floodgates are opening
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This is stupid. Everyone that essentially already 'made their money back' has no right to take Armstrong's cash, unless they are going to award the money to the rightful winner.

That's like Nike or Trek dropping him and then demanding money back for the years he successfully shilled their products and made them MUCH MORE money as a whole than he was paid.
 
A

Adam Scott Aukerman

Member
SnakeswithLasers said:
This is stupid. Everyone that essentially already 'made their money back' has no right to take Armstrong's cash, unless they are going to award the money to the rightful winner.

That's like Nike or Trek dropping him and then demanding money back for the years he successfully shilled their products and made them MUCH MORE money as a whole than he was paid.
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Yeah, I'm guessing that's not how the law and contracts work.
 
L

linsivvi

Member
Kabouter said:
Wouldn't that be a trial for defrauding the US government in the case of US Postal?
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He've even made sworn statements that he never doped (See below). The thing is, the stature of limitations have long since expired, so he's not going to be persecuted for those crimes (perjury and insurance fraud).

well, if i've ever taken performance enhancing drugs, I never would have told a doctor that I had taken performance enhancing drugs, therefore they never would have written down in any record that I'd taken performance enhancing drugs.
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If I can be any clearer, I have never taken drugs.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGbeASbAjzw&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyCpTWCj2E4&feature=player_embedded

SnakeswithLasers said:
This is stupid. Everyone that essentially already 'made their money back' has no right to take Armstrong's cash, unless they are going to award the money to the rightful winner.

That's like Nike or Trek dropping him and then demanding money back for the years he successfully shilled their products and made them MUCH MORE money as a whole than he was paid.
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SCA promotions refused to pay him the $5M prize money on the ground that he doped. He sued them and won and got $7.5M in the settlement. You don't think SCA is going to ask for their money back?

They will regardless of what you think.
 
S

SnakeswithLasers

Member
rogue_pigeon said:
Yeah, I'm guessing that's not how the law and contracts work.
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linsivvi said:
SCA promotions refused to pay him the $5M prize money on the ground that he doped. He sued them and won and got $7.5M in the settlement. You don't think SCA is going to ask for their money back?

They will regardless of what you think.
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I said it was stupid--I didn't say it wouldn't happen. It's my opinion that people take sports and athletes too seriously. I don't give a shit if any of these people get their money back. I don't care if Lance Armstrong goes broke. He's a dude riding a bike. There's too much money invested in these stupid games and everyone involved needs to get their priorities in line.

It's just an (admittedly large) step away from
tumblr_lmykiyQs7B1qb2tdc.png
in my opinion, so I think everyone needs to get some perspective.
 
K

kottila

Member
And the sunday times were sued by him and the case eventually settled after they wrote about the book LA confidential where they claimed that he was doping. I'm sure they're interested in reclaiming their money
 
S

someday

Banned
When Floyd Landis was still on Armstrong's team he actually got in trouble with Lance and the manager for doing "too well" in a stage. It was a time trial and when he finished, he was admonished by them because they said that he went too hard and didn't save enough of his energy for helping Armstrong on the next mountain stage.

Also, Jonathon Vaughters (ex pro cyclist who was also on one of Armstrong's teams at one point) who is now the manager for Garmin-Sharp, is shown in an IM with another cyclist talking about how the team punished Landis for that by dumping part of his "recovery blood bag." He was supposed to get 500ml but they dumped out most of it so that he wouldn't ride as well the next few days. The other riders all got their full amount of blood.
 
S

SnakeswithLasers

Member
someday said:
When Floyd Landis was still on Armstrong's team he actually got in trouble with Lance and the manager for doing "too well" in a stage. It was a time trial and when he finished, he was admonished by them because they said that he went too hard and didn't save enough of his energy for helping Armstrong on the next mountain stage.

Also, Jonathon Vaughters (ex pro cyclist who was also on one of Armstrong's teams at one point) who is now the manager for Garmin-Sharp, is shown in an IM with another cyclist talking about how the team punished Landis for that by dumping part of his "recovery blood bag." He was supposed to get 500ml but they dumped out most of it so that he wouldn't ride as well the next few days. The other riders all got their full amount of blood.
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Haha, that is so awesome. This story is hilarious.
 
Windom Earle

Windom Earle

Member
People asking why Armstrong was never tested positive obviously did not read the USADA report.

1. Armstrong was tested positive for cortisone, but his doping doctor gave him a prescription and back-dated it. UCI did not care, even though this is already a ban.

2. Armstrong was tested postive during the Tour de Suisse, but he gave $100.000 to the UCI and they let it slide. (The UCI is obviously still denying this)

Not that this is news, it has been rumored for years. The UCI is a horrible pack.
 
F

fabricated backlash

Member
So they killed the king of dopers, so the rest of the entire sport can continue on cheating, while at the same time pretending to do something against doping.

Gotcha.

Not that he didn't deserve the punishment, and I guess it gives off a better image than collectively ban the whole sport for doping.
 
B

Branduil

Member
SnakeswithLasers said:
I said it was stupid--I didn't say it wouldn't happen. It's my opinion that people take sports and athletes too seriously. I don't give a shit if any of these people get their money back. I don't care if Lance Armstrong goes broke. He's a dude riding a bike. There's too much money invested in these stupid games and everyone involved needs to get their priorities in line.

It's just an (admittedly large) step away from
tumblr_lmykiyQs7B1qb2tdc.png
in my opinion, so I think everyone needs to get some perspective.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this post in a cycling thread telling us how much you don't care about cycling.

Sounds like Lance is a pretty terrible person and lawsuits would be very much deserved.
 
S

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
I'd write up something but it's too early in the morning to continue dragging Armstrong and the UCI through the mud.
 
choodi

choodi

Banned
EekTheKat said:
The behind the scenes stories about Lance strongarming people who testified against him were very fascinating to read over - he's basically a real life Lex Luthor by those accounts.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/zone-lance-armstrong-bully-downfall-article-1.1188512
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someday said:
When Floyd Landis was still on Armstrong's team he actually got in trouble with Lance and the manager for doing "too well" in a stage. It was a time trial and when he finished, he was admonished by them because they said that he went too hard and didn't save enough of his energy for helping Armstrong on the next mountain stage.

Also, Jonathon Vaughters (ex pro cyclist who was also on one of Armstrong's teams at one point) who is now the manager for Garmin-Sharp, is shown in an IM with another cyclist talking about how the team punished Landis for that by dumping part of his "recovery blood bag." He was supposed to get 500ml but they dumped out most of it so that he wouldn't ride as well the next few days. The other riders all got their full amount of blood.
Click to expand...

This is the real reason that no one should feel any kind of sympathy for this piece of shit. He is a nasty cunt and is now going to get what he deserves.
 
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